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Squizzle posted:The best Robin-related Tim Drake costume: All of those are awful. The best:  Toxxupation posted:I just saw that note that New Super-Man should have the body type of a "17-year-old kid". Has...has anyone at DC ever seen a teen? Rob Liefeld is still in charge of the art department Gaz-L posted:Also they seem determined to wreck their two actual good attempts at a Spider-Man in the last 20 years: Blue Beetle (Jaime) and Batman Beyond (Terry's whole thing is "WHAT IF SPIDER-MAN.... WAS BATMAN!?") Jaime sucks almost as much as Cyborg. Sad that DC has spent the past 11 years trying to make Jaime happen and expressly forbade CW from using Ted Kord in Arrow (They ended up using Superman as Ray Palmer as Iron Man instead) Alucard Nacirema fucked around with this message at 10:02 on May 29, 2016 |
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May 29, 2016 09:31
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i swear to god if little superboy jr starts running around in a leather jacket having wacky adventures with damian i will actually buy a comic by detective comics comicsAlucard Nacirema posted:Jaime sucks almost as much as Cyborg. ins anely incorrect
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May 29, 2016 14:59
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Literally The Worst posted:i swear to god if little superboy jr starts running around in a leather jacket having wacky adventures with damian i will actually buy a comic by detective comics comics He's got a super hoodie and super tennis shoes, does that count?
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May 29, 2016 15:13
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Alucard Nacirema posted:Sad that DC has spent the past 11 years trying to make Jaime happen and expressly forbade CW from using Ted Kord in Arrow (They ended up using Superman as Ray Palmer as Iron Man instead) do you have an actual reason that you think Jaime sucks or is it just "BLUH BLUH ISN'T TED KORD"
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May 29, 2016 15:51
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I really feel like the batman beyond suit doesnt translate well to realistic art styles.
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May 29, 2016 16:13
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Just about every change to the Bat Beyond costume is terrible. The red outsoles aren't that bad but are really unnecessary, red eyes make him look like a bad guy, loving batjowls.... I guess the red highlights to the utility belt is fine?
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May 29, 2016 16:32
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The Batman Beyond suit is designed for a cartoon. It's a design that looks good and dynamic with flat colours, fluid movements, and minimal lighting or shading. Trying to elevate that to highly chiselled definition kind of misses the point of the costume.
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May 29, 2016 17:06
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I really like the rebirth Teen Titans designs, though. The street clothes stuff is a nice touch that grounds the characters as people as well as superheroes.
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May 29, 2016 17:19
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It's really been lame that Tim only got to half graduate from being Robin. Red Robin is stupid. Might as well start calling the kid in Bludhaven Blue Robin. Maybe by the end Bats will have a whole team of Power Ranger Robins. Only mildly related, but it bothers me that this costume looks so great on print, but atrocious in the Arkham game.
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May 29, 2016 17:22
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I kind of like the idea that he was actually fond of the Robin identity and doesn't want to graduate so much as adapt it to himself. I also have a feeling that if he did graduate, most people would just dismiss him as "not Nightwing". He's definitely still in a kind of awkward middle child place, though.
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May 29, 2016 17:24
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better than being the strung-out failure of a cousin who keeps holding up liquor stores aka jason todd
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May 29, 2016 17:31
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They need to change his name from Red Robin. It's so stupid, plus I expect people to say it like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7FGjZe7AcI
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May 29, 2016 17:52
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Besides looking great, the best thing about the OYL suit is how much of it is unapologetically lifted from Gatchaman. He should just go full Science Ninja and get a bird helmet for his post-Robin graduation identity.
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May 29, 2016 18:07
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Red Robin really feels like a last-minute decision. Like you're a DC comics editor, you've just heard Grant Morrison is turning Dick and Damian into Batman and Robin and that's great but you realize you've still got to put out a book starring Tim Drake every month and you need to make a decision right now, um um ok, um what if we call him Red Robin? poo poo, I guess that'll work until I can get an actual writer on the phone - oh gently caress whoops, went to print. gently caress, now it's seven years later and he's still Red Robin. gently caress.
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May 29, 2016 18:10
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Travis343 posted:Red Robin really feels like a last-minute decision. Like you're a DC comics editor, you've just heard Grant Morrison is turning Dick and Damian into Batman and Robin and that's great but you realize you've still got to put out a book starring Tim Drake every month and you need to make a decision right now, um um ok, um what if we call him Red Robin? poo poo, I guess that'll work until I can get an actual writer on the phone - oh gently caress whoops, went to print. gently caress, now it's seven years later and he's still Red Robin. gently caress. Red Robin is a reference to Kingdom Come, though there it was Dick Grayson.
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May 29, 2016 18:40
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Jason Todd showed up wearing that suit for a bit and then they decided to saddle Tim with it.
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May 29, 2016 18:52
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IIRC the original plan was to use Countdown as a mean to get Jason back in the fold as Red Robin with Tim as Robin but Morrison derailed those plans by using Damian so editorial had to give Tim the RR identity and keep Jason as the Red Hood
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May 29, 2016 19:12
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Here's an idea. Stop using Jason Todd.
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May 29, 2016 19:16
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:IIRC the original plan was to use Countdown as a mean to get Jason back in the fold as Red Robin with Tim as Robin but Morrison derailed those plans by using Damian so editorial had to give Tim the RR identity and keep Jason as the Red Hood Yet another problem that could easily be solved by just ignoring Jason "No gently caress YOU Dad, I'm gonna use guns and be super tough and cool!" Todd.
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May 29, 2016 19:19
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DrProsek posted:Just about every change to the Bat Beyond costume is terrible. The red outsoles aren't that bad but are really unnecessary, red eyes make him look like a bad guy, loving batjowls.... I guess the red highlights to the utility belt is fine? Like why don't you just make him look like a dumb polygon character at this point with that weird face? Its so weird to just have that be kind of blocky and nothing else. Is he Batdoberman Beyond and the suit is there to keep him from drooling too much? Dark_Tzitzimine posted:IIRC the original plan was to use Countdown as a mean to get Jason back in the fold as Red Robin with Tim as Robin but Morrison derailed those plans by using Damian so editorial had to give Tim the RR identity and keep Jason as the Red Hood And Jason still had no plan in what he's there for or what he's bringing to DC at all.
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May 29, 2016 19:19
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I'll believe Rebirth is about restoring the DC Universe when it puts Jason and Barry back in the grave. Permanently. Again.
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May 29, 2016 19:22
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Norns posted:Here's an idea. Stop using Jason Todd. MADNESS.
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May 29, 2016 19:25
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Android Blues posted:The Batman Beyond suit is designed for a cartoon. It's a design that looks good and dynamic with flat colours, fluid movements, and minimal lighting or shading. Trying to elevate that to highly chiselled definition kind of misses the point of the costume. Next thing you know they'll put cyber-seams on it to look high tech or something. Maybe Tactilol Hexagons too.
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May 29, 2016 19:31
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But think of all the good red hood storylines, like
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May 29, 2016 19:55
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Toxxupation posted:But think of all the good red hood storylines, like The animated Under the Red Hood was very good.
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May 29, 2016 19:59
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Toxxupation posted:But think of all the good red hood storylines, like RHATO
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May 29, 2016 20:03
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Toxxupation posted:But think of all the good red hood storylines, like Dick beating his rear end in Batman and Robin was good.
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May 29, 2016 20:07
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Toxxupation posted:But think of all the good red hood storylines, like Under the Red Hood (although the animated version was better) Revenge of the Red Hood is enjoyable but it suffers from Jason being a plot device rather than a character Streets Run Red had a fantastic first issue but it went to poo poo as soon Winnick introduced the "thundercats" mercs The Search for Ray Palmer was a great use of Jason, same as his small role in Robin's final arcs. Lobdell's tenure in RHATO was solid all around but the Death of the Family tie in was his best story with the final arc being a close second. Pak did wonders with the first Batman Superman annual The Convergence story was a great sendoff for the pre N52 version of Jason Red Hood Arsenal is great but the definitive standout is this current arc with Duela.
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May 29, 2016 20:22
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:
 But no seriously Red Hood/Arsenal is kind of a showcase of the worst parts of Jason Todd as a character. He drags down other characters with his overwrought storylines and is the kind of douchebag that, after shooting a mentally ill woman he had spent the entire arc trying to help he suddenly loses any and all humanity and makes a stupid quip that makes zero sense given the events that just happened while his victim literally says "You shot me....awesome!" to ensure that we, the readers, know that this is a cool moment and Jason's so rad! No, never mind the hilarious tonal dissonance between the 4 pages this event unfolds on, he's so cool and he feels so bad about failing to help her, no seriously! Jason Todd is a straight up 90's anti-hero played 100% straight, with all the bad quips, 'hard edge' nature, bad boy trying to be good, Guns and Murder porn schlock that it implies. He's Grifter, but tied to the bat family so there's just enough name recognition to keep his lovely comics afloat. He's currently written as a dumb relic that kind of exemplifies a lot of what Rebirth is saying "No this is all dumb and bad, sorry we hosed up!" about.
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May 29, 2016 20:36
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:
Stop perpetuating this bullshit.
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May 29, 2016 20:47
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I liked Under the Hood. But Black Mask was the highlight, not Jason. None of the other things named were very good in my opinion.
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May 29, 2016 20:49
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Under the Red Hood (although the animated version was better) your bar of entry into "Good Comics" is basically: Does the comic feature Jason Todd? If so "Good Comic" has been achieved.
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May 29, 2016 20:52
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Not to mention Jason's been rebooted what, three times now (Crisis of Infinite Earths, New 52, Rebirth)? Four if you count the punch that reset his life? He's a relic that only gets worse the more you try to remake but not exactly fix him into an actual character more than the killer bad boy that somehow everyone puts up with. I mean, maybe I'm just purposely blocking this out, but where the gently caress did his warrior monk bullshit from N52 lead to? Why did they have a slightly good idea in Red Hood and Arsenal 3, setting themselves up as a Rent-A-Bat service and then immediately drop that for more bullshit? Neither bad nor good ideas involving Todd go anywhere. He's just a blackhole of talent and effort that gives nothing back to DC.
Crabtree fucked around with this message at 21:05 on May 29, 2016 |
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May 29, 2016 21:00
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Travis343 posted:your bar of entry into "Good Comics" is basically: Does the comic feature Jason Todd? If so "Good Comic" has been achieved. To be fair to Dark Titsanime it's more his entry into "Good Comics" is has a plotline that has a beginning and end. Like from previous "No Jason Todd is Cool!" post from DT his standards for character arcs is super low and as long as plotlines complete he's pretty happy regardless of writing quality or how little sense any of it makes (For example: "but the definitive standout is this current arc with Duela.")
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May 29, 2016 21:01
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:But no seriously Red Hood/Arsenal is kind of a showcase of the worst parts of Jason Todd as a character. He drags down other characters with his overwrought storylines and is the kind of douchebag that, after shooting a mentally ill woman he had spent the entire arc trying to help he suddenly loses any and all humanity and makes a stupid quip that makes zero sense given the events that just happened while his victim literally says "You shot me....awesome!" to ensure that we, the readers, know that this is a cool moment and Jason's so rad! No, never mind the hilarious tonal dissonance between the 4 pages this event unfolds on, he's so cool and he feels so bad about failing to help her, no seriously! First things first, have you read the series or are just going with the pages I've posted here before? See, Lobdell has written Jason as someone that isn't really honest with his feelings and relies on snide remarks to deal with them. In the particular scene you're mentioning, the quip is more about Jason trying to hide his dissapointment at both Duela and himself. Duela by refusing to take the chance he's offering to her and him by believing in her that much. The next issue has Jason explaining his reasoning in fact. Oh, and he only shot her in the shoulder and made sure that she got the necessary help to survive...for the detriment of the ER, at least two cops, Roy and Tara. Rhyno posted:Stop perpetuating this bullshit. Is no bullshit. Everyone that bothered to read the series agree that issues 16 to 18 are the best work Lobdell did in the title. Hell, eve you admitted it was a good issue when it was released. Travis343 posted:your bar of entry into "Good Comics" is basically: Does the comic feature Jason Todd? If so "Good Comic" has been achieved. Not really. Lost Days is incredibly mediocre, anytime Tynion gets close to Jason (RHATO, Eternal, B&R Eternal) is utter crap and King also has a extremely poor grasp on Jason's character like Robin War and Grayson showed. EDIT: Crabtree posted:Not to mention Jason's been rebooted what, three times now (Crisis of Infinite Earths, New 52, Rebirth)? Four if you count the punch that reset his life? He's a relic that only gets worse the more you try to remake but not exactly fix him into an actual character more than the killer bad boy that somehow everyone puts up with. I mean, maybe I'm just purposely blocking this out, but where the gently caress did his warrior monk bullshit from N52 lead to? Why did they have a slightly good idea in Red Hood and Arsenal 3, setting themselves up as a Rent-A-Bat service and then immediately drop that for more bullshit? Neither bad nor good ideas involving Todd go anywhere. He's just a blackhole of talent and effort that gives nothing back to DC. The training with the All Caste served two purposes: give him a plausible way to explain his combat prowess in the compressed N52 timeline and to develop his character. Ducra's teaching are the reason he doesn't believe killing is the only option and why he is more self aware of his own short comings. Rent- A-Bat hasn't been dropped at all and is in fact the underying tread that connects every story together. Duela's whole motivation to take them down is because Rent A Bat in fact. Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 29, 2016 |
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May 29, 2016 21:07
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Noted lovely Writer Scott Lobdell writes a character well, noted Good Writer Tom King writes him poorly. Is it possible the character is just lovely? You be the judge. Robin War was pretty poo poo, but whatever nuances you feel were lacking in the deep and complex tapestry that is Jason Todd were the least of it's problems.
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May 29, 2016 21:13
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Everyone that bothered to read the series agree that issues 16 to 18 are the best work Lobdell did in the title. No they didn't. I've seen people in other places talking about how awful it is.
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May 29, 2016 21:19
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Travis343 posted:Noted lovely Writer Scott Lobdell writes a character well, noted Good Writer Tom King writes him poorly. Is it possible the character is just lovely? You be the judge. Is no Jason being a bad character, just King failing to make Robin War a story worth a read. In fact, the only writer in the Batman offices able to write a Jason worth a drat is Bermejo. Pak did amazing stuff with Jason on Action Comics and Bedard also did an enjoyable story with him in Supergirl, even Pfeifer managed to write a decent Jason. Even Johns proved a better grasp on his character in the two panels Jason showed up in Justice League 19 EDIT ImpAtom posted:No they didn't. I've seen people in other places talking about how awful it is. You got some concrete examples? Issue 18 is the best reviewed issue from the reviews compiled by Comic Book Roundup. Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 21:27 on May 29, 2016 |
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May 29, 2016 21:21
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:First things first, have you read the series or are just going with the pages I've posted here before? There are more?! How many Red Hood pages that you haven't posted can there actually be?
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May 29, 2016 21:36
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:The training with the All Caste served two purposes: give him a plausible way to explain his combat prowess in the compressed N52 timeline and to develop his character. Ducra's teaching are the reason he doesn't believe killing is the only option and why he is more self aware of his own short comings. Okay he trained with special ultra violent Shaolin Monks, but what about the All Caste vs The Untitled conflict? Where did that go and what use was that to the Outlaw's plot? Yes it serves the sloppy purpose of giving a decent excuse to write over coming back from the dead, but what else did it give Jason or the rest of the DC? What did it establish outside of that hastily slapdash remade continuity? Also I thought they weren't mercs to anyone but government assassins now? Like they obviously work for some US black ops poo poo and that's all?
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May 29, 2016 21:42
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