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JaneError
Feb 4, 2016

how would i even breathe on the moon?
Nah, this one's in St. Louis. This particular building used to be office space.

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Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
:unsmith: i like nice words
Is that a picture of the actual space? I think any furniture is going to make it seem too constrained. Even if you actually fit past it comfortably, it won't look that way. IMO go with a couple of bookshelves up super high, so the bottom is at or below the bottom of that duct, and paint the walls in a large-scale pattern in a way that will draw you on. Apartment Therapy has had some pieces on that IIRC. Leave the floor alone but this is a good chance to do something better with the lights and hopefully the ceiling.

JaneError
Feb 4, 2016

how would i even breathe on the moon?
Yep, that's the space. Thanks for the input! I actually don't think we're allowed to paint, which is kind of a bummer--we're brainstorming some possibilities for displaying art (or possibly some a wall-mounted perch/shelf system for my two cats, because, you know, cat lady). I don't think we'll make any huge decisions until 1) we know the status of a storage unit in the building--if there's one available, the problem pretty much solves itself, and 2) we have all our stuff moved in and get a better sense of what/how much of it needs a better permanent home.

extravadanza
Oct 19, 2007
You should probably install an array of foot activated piano pads. You know those big mats that have keys that you can step on?

Seriously though, looks like enough room for stuff like a shoe rack and a thin bench, but good luck turning that entire hall into functional space.

Shoren
Apr 6, 2011

victoria concordia crescit
I think this is the right place to ask about this...

I just moved into an apartment and I'm already getting fed up with the amount of noise coming from the kids around the pool. Now the situation I'm in is this: I moved into this place on May 7th and it was being managed by one of the higher-end companies around Phoenix (Mark-Taylor). Not even two weeks later and I get an email from them saying they won't be managing the complex anymore and that's it.

I was urged by the previous community manager to take an apartment overlooking the courtyard that the pool is in and assured me they take the issue of noise very seriously. At that time they had someone on call 24 hours to handle noise complaints and such, and naturally that was one of the first things on the chopping block by the new management. The lease I signed spelled out clear as day no loud noises, no music, etc is permitted at the pool. The only thing I've been told so far is to call the police to report a noise complaint, but I'm not sure if this technically violates city noise ordinances.

It's seriously frustrating being at work all day then coming home to the sounds of screaming kids at the pool for the rest of the evening and all weekend. I had faith that the previous management would take this seriously, but I've never heard of the new company that came in and their attitude thus far has been "suck it up." I want to know what my options are. I'm not above moving out so soon if that's what it takes. If the new company won't take the rental agreement seriously then what else can I do?

photomikey
Dec 30, 2012
You'd break your lease and move, they would keep your deposit and probably some exorbitant fee, you would have to sue in small claims court to try and get it back. Without knowing you, the complex, or your judge, I'd say you have a 50/50 shot at winning. You would need to be able to show that there was a 24 hour noise complaint hotline, and now that's gone - that's a pretty material change. Start keeping a log of noise now. If you could get something in writing from the person who rented you the apartment at Mark-Taylor, I'd say you have more of a 75/25 shot.

Your other option (and this is a total long shot, far worse than the court thing) would be to find some manager type within the new mgmt company, lay out the facts with as little whining and back-story as possible, and ask to move to another unit or be released.

If I may chime in with my $0.02 as some advice for the future, if the noise of people playing in the pool presents such a serious problem for you, don't live overlooking a pool. I get it that it didn't seem bad at the time, I live on a busy street, I hate it, I just didn't know how much I would hate it going in. But take this experience and learn from it.

Problem!
Jan 1, 2007

I am the queen of France.
They probably pushed the unit overlooking the pool because no one else wanted it. You pretty much have to deal with it till the summers over then chalk it up to a learning experience and add it to your list of things to watch out for next time you move.

Shoren
Apr 6, 2011

victoria concordia crescit
Thanks for the advice. I've lived in a lot of apartments over the years and complete management change was something I wouldn't have expected within a month of moving. I know how noisy common areas can get so it was a calculated risk to take when I was told they had someone on hand 24 hrs to help manage noise. Anyway, I'll see what I can do to compromise with the current management; worst case I'll move out and lawyer up.

JaneError
Feb 4, 2016

how would i even breathe on the moon?
Just an update to our hallway conundrum upthread. There's actually a storage unit available in the basement, which seems to have solved all our problems, thankfully, so we won't have to worry about things looking too crowded. Now, to find some large-scale art to liven up all that bare white wall space...

photomikey
Dec 30, 2012
Good. That hallway was stunning. It would be a shame to crap it up with storage furniture.

Pron on VHS
Nov 14, 2005

Blood Clots
Sweat Dries
Bones Heal
Suck it Up and Keep Wrestling
Hey I'm currently deciding between renewing with my roommate or moving out into a 1 bdroom and I wanted to confirm that the general rule is rent should be 25-30% of your PRE-tax income, so gross income, before taxes and withholdings have been taken out. Right?

photomikey
Dec 30, 2012
I would throw any percentage numbers out the window and look at a budget of the last 12 months with real numbers. Everything else varies so wildly that a fixed "30% is the right number" rule would never work for any significant part of the population. If you are making $35k/yr and have a $300/mo car payment, that is literally 10% of your income. If you make the same $35k/yr and have no car payment, under any general rule, you'd be "supposed to" spend the same amount on housing, even though your disposable income is 10% more than the guy with the car payment. This same thing is true across every budget category. If you like ramen noodles and tap water, you have a different budget than a guy who likes going out for sushi several times a week.

Cross-reference this with your goals. If your goal is "save as much money as possible to go to Europe next year", spend less than 30%. If your goal is "get a baller apartment and impress my parents", spend more than 30%.

Find an apartment you can live with, find out what it costs, if you can pay for it, pay for everything else, and save a few bucks... rent on.

goku chewbacca
Dec 14, 2002
What you can afford or aught to spend is one thing, but most professionally managed apartments will screen for minimum income.2.5-3x the rent is the typical guideline.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

photomikey posted:

I would throw any percentage numbers out the window and look at a budget of the last 12 months with real numbers. Everything else varies so wildly that a fixed "30% is the right number" rule would never work for any significant part of the population. If you are making $35k/yr and have a $300/mo car payment, that is literally 10% of your income. If you make the same $35k/yr and have no car payment, under any general rule, you'd be "supposed to" spend the same amount on housing, even though your disposable income is 10% more than the guy with the car payment. This same thing is true across every budget category. If you like ramen noodles and tap water, you have a different budget than a guy who likes going out for sushi several times a week.

Cross-reference this with your goals. If your goal is "save as much money as possible to go to Europe next year", spend less than 30%. If your goal is "get a baller apartment and impress my parents", spend more than 30%.

Find an apartment you can live with, find out what it costs, if you can pay for it, pay for everything else, and save a few bucks... rent on.
That said, most people have trouble fitting everything they want and their other bills and a good amount of savings into a budget where 50+% of their income is spent on rent. 40% is doable, but potentially iffy depending on the rest of your budget. (Or the only realistic possibility if you're in a city, don't want a roommate, and aren't making big bucks)

I wouldn't go much higher than 40% of your income on rent unless you're willing to live like a spartan hermit, is what I'm trying to say here.

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

You sort of have to be able to examine your situation and work out where the right ground is. Generally I recommend people consider their rent and their commuting costs together when picking housing - there is no point in saving $200 on rent if you end up spending $200 extra on your commute. And you should be valuing your time in there, because you also don't want to save $$ on rent at the expense of a grueling commute that doesn't leave you time to do anything (unless that is your only choice). The 30% is not a terrible starting point, but it also breaks down at either end of the income range. If you are making tons of money, you probably shouldn't be spending 30% of it on housing, and at the same time, if you scraping along the poverty line (or below!) you are going to be hard-pressed to only pay 30%.

The really important thing is that you are aware of it and are doing so deliberately as part of your budgeting. There was a time that I was paying 50% of salary on rent, but doing so allowed us to forgo a car and any commuting costs due to the location, and it was a deliberate choice for a limited period of time. I was able to convince the landlord that we weren't a liability because I had very good credit and a string of positive rental histories and made it clear I knew what we were doing. Also I was prepared for the following:

Haifisch posted:

live like a spartan hermit

I also wasn't carrying any debt at the time to bleed my budget out any further.

photomikey
Dec 30, 2012
Regarding:

Haifisch posted:

live like a spartan hermit
Some of the best times of my life have occurred while paying 50% of my income on rent. If you have the opportunity to live in the center of downtown overlooking the bay for six months while bleeding money on rent, you will never forget the sunsets you see from that apartment or the people you get to know from the dive bar next door. When you eventually get married and have a kid and start a business and hire employees and have obligations, "gently caress it I'll just eat ramen and live in the nicest place in town" isn't an option anymore. Evaluate carefully, but there's nothing wrong with a nice place to live as long as you can swing it.

Deeters
Aug 21, 2007


What reasons would a landlord have for not allowing me to steam clean my own carpets? Is it easy to gently caress something up? Someone gave me a Shark Duo steam cleaner (wouldn't take no for an answer), so it got me thinking when I read it in my lease.

deadwing
Mar 5, 2007

Deeters posted:

What reasons would a landlord have for not allowing me to steam clean my own carpets? Is it easy to gently caress something up? Someone gave me a Shark Duo steam cleaner (wouldn't take no for an answer), so it got me thinking when I read it in my lease.

To charge you an unholy amount when you move out for carpet cleaning, I guess.

Problem!
Jan 1, 2007

I am the queen of France.

Deeters posted:

What reasons would a landlord have for not allowing me to steam clean my own carpets? Is it easy to gently caress something up? Someone gave me a Shark Duo steam cleaner (wouldn't take no for an answer), so it got me thinking when I read it in my lease.

I think that just applies to move-out so you can't half-rear end it and/or they can charge you an unholy amount for it.

You can't really gently caress it up unless you leave it running in one spot for a long time and soak through the carpet. We have a Hoover Steamvac because we have pets and have used it in several rentals without issue.

photomikey
Dec 30, 2012
The apartment probably uses a much stronger truck-mounted system to clean the carpets, something that the $40 rental jobbie from the grocery store won't do. I don't do carpet in my rentals (for many reasons, including this one), and it seems that more and more of them are moving that direction. But I tend to agree with deadwing... why let you clean the carpets for $40 when they could charge you $100 to do the same thing.

In many areas you can sue them in small claims (or threaten to) and get that money back. They can't just charge you to clean the carpets, they have to prove they need cleaned and they have to prove you didn't do an adequate job. But very few people know that or bother to do it, they mostly just eat it and move on.

Saeku
Sep 22, 2010
First lease questions: my partner and I want to move in together, but I'm not sure how to prove that we're reliable tenants. We're both 25, I work and am finishing a B.Sc, she is about to go for a B.Mus. Here's our monthly financials:

Me:
Employment income $2,090
Student aid less tuition $500 -- once I graduate in spring, my employment income is guaranteed to go up at least enough to cover this & repayments

Her:
Employment income $450 (not including summer jobs and freelance)
Student aid less tuition $670
Parental support $500

So that means we can afford to rent in this city by the 1/3 guideline. HOWEVER: we have no proof of her student aid income since official letters go out late July, and obviously no way to document parental support. We have $8k savings each; I have great credit history, she has none since she's never taken out debts. What's our likelihood of convincing a landlord to rent to us? Can we do it without a cosigner?

Saeku fucked around with this message at 14:08 on May 31, 2016

vonnegutt
Aug 7, 2006
Hobocamp.
It probably depends on the city, I live in a medium-sized town and have never been asked to prove income other than a letter of employment (just a note from my boss saying yes, she works here).

However I realize this experience is rare in larger cities, they usually want some clearer evidence. You are both students, so I would ask around your school - when I was in grad school, someone in our dept kept a running list of renters who would rent to students, rentals within biking distance, etc. Other students can probably answer your questions about how strict rentals are in your area as well.

Animal
Apr 8, 2003

I am buying a used particleboard desk off Craigslist, and found a used Ikea Galant desk for $70 (retails for around $200). The wood seems to be a bit stained, worn. Whats the best way to treat it, and maybe make the color a little darker? Also one of the corners seems to be a bit deformed. Its not a big deal as I would just put that against the wall with my PC standing on that corner, but if its fixable I'd like to get this desk as mint as possible. Something tells me that particleboard would be very hard to treat, but thought I'd ask here. Thanks!





Mocking Bird
Aug 17, 2011

Saeku posted:

First lease questions: my partner and I want to move in together, but I'm not sure how to prove that we're reliable tenants. We're both 25, I work and am finishing a B.Sc, she is about to go for a B.Mus. Here's our monthly financials:

Me:
Employment income $2,090
Student aid less tuition $500 -- once I graduate in spring, my employment income is guaranteed to go up at least enough to cover this & repayments

Her:
Employment income $450 (not including summer jobs and freelance)
Student aid less tuition $670
Parental support $500

So that means we can afford to rent in this city by the 1/3 guideline. HOWEVER: we have no proof of her student aid income since official letters go out late July, and obviously no way to document parental support. We have $8k savings each; I have great credit history, she has none since she's never taken out debts. What's our likelihood of convincing a landlord to rent to us? Can we do it without a cosigner?

You are prime candidates FOR a consigner actually. Apartments near colleges are used to this. If your income can't qualify you outside of student aid (unless it's something like a phd stipend) a consigner really is the next step for most landlords. Students are notoriously unreliable but their parents are usually good for it.

photomikey
Dec 30, 2012

Saeku posted:

I have great credit history, she has none since she's never taken out debts
She has no credit history? Never had a cell phone? No student loans? Never had utilities? No bank account? No debit card?

When someone tells me "I have no credit history", I hear "I have bad credit and don't want to own up to it".

You can tap your (her) social security number into any of the credit agencies (AnnualCreditReport.com) and get a free report. If it comes back and says "who? We've never heard of her!", you will be the first tenant I've ever met who claimed they had no credit history who actually had no credit history.

That argument aside, if you have $16k cash in the bank and things are lined up, I don't see why you couldn't get an apartment. If her parents are providing parental support, I would be surprised if they wouldn't cosign for an apartment. If, in fact, they won't cosign - it would be a red flag for me as a landlord that your own parents won't trust you.

Go see an apartment. Explain your situation. (Try not to use the word "situation" or use the phrase "work with us"). See what they say. It will be representative of everywhere else in town, and once you get one answer... you'll at least know what to ask when you call other places.

Animal posted:

I am buying a used particleboard desk off Craigslist, and found a used Ikea Galant desk for $70 (retails for around $200). The wood seems to be a bit stained, worn. Whats the best way to treat it, and maybe make the color a little darker? Also one of the corners seems to be a bit deformed. Its not a big deal as I would just put that against the wall with my PC standing on that corner, but if its fixable I'd like to get this desk as mint as possible. Something tells me that particleboard would be very hard to treat, but thought I'd ask here. Thanks!
This is referred to as "laminate", and it's basically particle board with wallpaper on it. The wallpaper happens to be of pictures of real wood. There is nothing you can do to stain or paint it. What you do when it gets ugly and stained is sell it to some unsuspecting fool for $70 and tell him it was worth $200 new. The desk in those photos is worth approximately $0. With some patience, a desk that was originally $200 that looks great and as good as new will come up for $70 in a week or two.

Somewhat unrelated tip: You will, if you continue to hunt for desks, see nicer desks that need refinished. It will take you approximately $250 and approximately 10,000 hours to sand, stain, and re-finish a desk, and you would have been better off buying a decent desk in the first place.

Xandu
Feb 19, 2006


It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Saeku posted:

First lease questions: my partner and I want to move in together, but I'm not sure how to prove that we're reliable tenants. We're both 25, I work and am finishing a B.Sc, she is about to go for a B.Mus. Here's our monthly financials:

Me:
Employment income $2,090
Student aid less tuition $500 -- once I graduate in spring, my employment income is guaranteed to go up at least enough to cover this & repayments

Her:
Employment income $450 (not including summer jobs and freelance)
Student aid less tuition $670
Parental support $500

So that means we can afford to rent in this city by the 1/3 guideline. HOWEVER: we have no proof of her student aid income since official letters go out late July, and obviously no way to document parental support. We have $8k savings each; I have great credit history, she has none since she's never taken out debts. What's our likelihood of convincing a landlord to rent to us? Can we do it without a cosigner?

A cosigner will make it a lot easier (and this in fact is a good way to demonstrate parental support). Does she need to be on the lease though? You have 2k in income (and thus presumably a job) and good credit history, that should be decent enough.

Rurutia
Jun 11, 2009

photomikey posted:

She has no credit history? Never had a cell phone? No student loans? Never had utilities? No bank account? No debit card?

These things don't go on your credit history unless you're delinquent and then they crash it. My husband had no credit history until he was 25 because he never took out student loans and paid everything on his debit card. Since he wasn't a student, he had to get a secured credit card for a year to build his credit to get a regular credit card. He definitely had utilities, cell phone, and a bank account, but his credit report was totally clean. After the year with the secured credit card, his FICO score was >750 and he used it with me to get an apartment. So, I don't think he was lying to me.

Marius Pontmercy
Apr 2, 2007

Liberte
Egalite
Beyonce
Yeah came to say the same thing. At almost 25, I had no credit cards, no debt, paid all my utilities on time and got denied for an apartment because I had no credit history. Luckily, because credit history is a stupid game, I built decent credit in about six months with a secured credit card that had $300 on it.

BadSamaritan
May 2, 2008

crumb by crumb in this big black forest


So my landlady broke her foot a few months ago and it's healing poorly. She lives on the top floor of the two-family house that we rent in, and recently brought up to my husband that she is interested in switching apartments with us when our lease is up in a couple months. The apartments are essentially the same, with the top floor one being slightly nicer.

She's a sweet little old lady, and I think it's a pretty reasonable request from her end. We wouldn't mind moving to the other floor for her except for the cost and hassle of getting movers and repacking. Do you think it's reasonable to try and get her to pay for movers, or at least a large portion of the cost? If it's a lot for her up front, we'd be willing to work it into a rent decrease for the next year.

My guess is that if we don't agree to switch she would likely not renew the lease in order to move in downstairs and would need to find new renters. We just moved in last year and since we would have to all move on the same day it's probably going to be a huge pain in the butt.

It's a nice place in a great area for a pretty reasonable rent, so I would like to not sour our renter relationship by playing hardball. We were hoping to stay at this place for at least a few years, and weren't planning on financing a move in a couple months.

bkerlee
Aug 3, 2006

Slimy and gross.
Put out a call for friends, offer, pizza/beer/whatever, move over a long weekend and enjoy a great relationship with a landlord you like.

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

I think you should be careful not to undervalue a good relationship with your landlord, especially if they are around a lot and aren't looking to leverage the property for maximum profit. It sounds like this is a situation where you can give your landlord a little leeway and she will probably really appreciate it over time.

Assuming that switching units also means that you are paying comparable rent, it also sounds like you are getting a slightly nicer unit out of it, so there's that.

Having said that, I think that it's reasonable for you to talk to her about how that switch will work - like you said, you will need probably make the exchange in one day, so it makes sense to coordinate it to ensure it goes smoothly. It probably actually makes sense for you to jointly hire a mover to take care of both ends, rather than two moving companies that are going to work around each other. You would probably save money on that too, because it's going to be cheaper to hire a four-man crew for a day than two two-man crews. But I don't think you should try and play hardball in that discussion.

extravadanza
Oct 19, 2007

BadSamaritan posted:



My guess is that if we don't agree to switch she would likely not renew the lease in order to move in downstairs and would need to find new renters. We just moved in last year and since we would have to all move on the same day it's probably going to be a huge pain in the butt.

It's a nice place in a great area for a pretty reasonable rent, so I would like to not sour our renter relationship by playing hardball. We were hoping to stay at this place for at least a few years, and weren't planning on financing a move in a couple months.

Sounds like you will be financing a move one way or another. Just depends on if you want to rent a truck or not.

photomikey
Dec 30, 2012

Rurutia posted:

These things don't go on your credit history unless you're delinquent and then they crash it. My husband had no credit history until he was 25 because he never took out student loans and paid everything on his debit card. Since he wasn't a student, he had to get a secured credit card for a year to build his credit to get a regular credit card. He definitely had utilities, cell phone, and a bank account, but his credit report was totally clean. After the year with the secured credit card, his FICO score was >750 and he used it with me to get an apartment. So, I don't think he was lying to me.
Clean and "I don't have credit" are different. The one thing I can tell you for sure is that in 10 years and dozens upon dozens of applicants, the ones who "don't have any credit" always have credit, and it's always bad. As far as the OP... you're 25, it's time to maybe get yourself a credit card and start building a credit history. It literally costs nothing and it's part of being an adult in this day and age.

BadSamaritan posted:

Do you think it's reasonable to try and get her to pay for movers, or at least a large portion of the cost? If it's a lot for her up front, we'd be willing to work it into a rent decrease for the next year.
I think asking her about paying for it is par for the course. I would lead off with what you will do without asking for anything, which is pack up every loving thing in your entire apartment. I'd sell that as if it's kind of a big deal (it sure as hell is) and then come up with "I think all we'd need are boxes and movers to trade all the stuff between apartments. Were you planning on hiring movers to cart your stuff to our apartment, and if so, would you be willing to pay them to move our stuff upstairs as well?"
If she says no, she'll pay for nothing, I would re-consider moving. If she offers any assistance at all, I'd take her up on it. I like it when people have skin in the game, and even "I'll buy $50 worth of boxes" would to me be skin in the game.
When it comes to move time, I would go out of my way to be helpful in any way possible.

Rurutia
Jun 11, 2009

photomikey posted:

Clean and "I don't have credit" are different. The one thing I can tell you for sure is that in 10 years and dozens upon dozens of applicants, the ones who "don't have any credit" always have credit, and it's always bad. As far as the OP... you're 25, it's time to maybe get yourself a credit card and start building a credit history. It literally costs nothing and it's part of being an adult in this day and age.

That's fine wrt your experience, but are you really going to nitpick semantics with me of my personal experience? I obviously meant clean as in there was no credit history. I'm just saying that it's not as out of the ordinary as you're making it seem.

photomikey
Dec 30, 2012

Rurutia posted:

That's fine wrt your experience, but are you really going to nitpick semantics with me of my personal experience? I obviously meant clean as in there was no credit history. I'm just saying that it's not as out of the ordinary as you're making it seem.
And I'm disagreeing. Not with your personal experience, but with the idea that someone can live to the age of 25 in the USA and have a credit report come up completely blank. It's not impossible (though, as I've said, I've literally never seen it happen), but I disagree with the idea that it's at all common.

I realize I'm of a different generation (I can't believe I just used that phrase), but I also can't believe that at twenty-loving-five people (like the OP, not necessarily your husband) don't apply for a credit card just to build some modicum of credit history because, well, because they're 25, and as an adult you may need to do something someday that will require proof that you've used credit before. It's free, it's a good exercise, and it seems like money management 101.

Rurutia
Jun 11, 2009

photomikey posted:

And I'm disagreeing. Not with your personal experience, but with the idea that someone can live to the age of 25 in the USA and have a credit report come up completely blank. It's not impossible (though, as I've said, I've literally never seen it happen), but I disagree with the idea that it's at all common.

What? I was literally just giving you an example of it happening. I never said it was common, but what the gently caress does that have to do with a singular case? Your advice wasn't wrong per se, I was just saying that having a bank account or debt card does nothing to your credit report if you didn't gently caress it up.

I only had a credit sheet at that age cause I made a point to get a credit card I paid off monthly. My mom cosigned all my apartment poo poo before I did. I didn't take out any loans and I definitely had a bank account/debit card.

ladyweapon
Nov 6, 2010

It reads all over his face,
like he's an Italian.

photomikey posted:

She has no credit history? Never had a cell phone? No student loans? Never had utilities? No bank account? No debit card?
Excluding student loans (which I don't have), I've never had any of these things show up on my credit report. All of them will check credit, but they do not report anything to the credit bureaus unless you go delinquent like Rurutia said. My car insurance company ran my credit and they don't report anything either.

Animal
Apr 8, 2003

None of those things show up in your credit report under any circumstances because you are not borrowing, except if you fail to meet you payment obligations in which case you may get a ding if it goes to collections. I also had no credit history until age 24 because I always used debit and never cared to borrow. I grudgingly got my first credit card to build credit before I bought my first car.

He is very mistaken about this thing as it is way more common than he stubbornly insist its not.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Animal posted:

He is very mistaken about this thing as it is way more common than he stubbornly insist its not.
Don't most Americans have at least 1 credit card by age 25? I certainly did.

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hailthefish
Oct 24, 2010

ilkhan posted:

Don't most Americans have at least 1 credit card by age 25? I certainly did.

Considering how aggressively credit cards are marketed to college students, and how aggressively colleges are marketed to students, and how expensive tuition is to the point student loans are drat near required, I wouldn't be surprised.

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