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Sometimes pulp dimestore fiction plots involve different motivations than "corrupted by an ancient evil". Often it's just competition for land or a scarce resource or a simple ambition for power and wealth driven by bog standard human greed.
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May 28, 2016 18:58
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I see a lot of comments on other sides saying well a lot of reviewers give it a bad score because they just don't """"get"""" fantasy, man. And I mean having read a lot of fantasy as a teen I'm well aware that A: fantasy IS about 99% bad but also B: Warcraft is pretty bad in terms of plot and setting even by fantasy standards, so this seemingly popular idea that if only reviewers were also fantasy buffs they would definitely recognize that the story of Warcraft is actually cool and good is funny as hell. E: Like what would ACTUALLY happen is reviewers complaining it lacks the depth and complexity of everyone's favorite show Game of Thrones or whatever instead* *I haven't watched GoT in like 4 seasons is it still everyone's favorite?
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May 28, 2016 19:39
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GoT has increased it's viewership every season, so it's still a favourite. HOLD THE DOOR! Lord of the Rings already defeated the anti-fantasy bloc when it comes to movies, so it's a pretty weak argument.
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May 28, 2016 19:59
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Vanderdeath posted:Man, I typically trust Mark Kermode so this is confusing to me. It isn't so confusing. He watched the film and formed his own opinion. Your opinion has been preset based on priorities other than the film. As much as I enjoy making fun of this whole endevour, you are failing to think. On this subject, memes overdetermine your reactions because that is what you want them to do. Your brain is redundant to your engagement with the stimulus at hand, so it occupies itself with pretending to be above it.
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May 28, 2016 20:14
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Black Bones posted:BvS is a great movie, and I look forward to the extened cut. Oh poo poo, the jcvd one is "enemies closer" or something isnt it?
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May 28, 2016 20:46
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Metzen has joked that he repeats himself. He knows he relies on a plot twist of magical or psychic corruption, often as part of the master plan of an ancient fallen evil. Some of the better ones, like the transformation of Arthas, are a literal depiction of the consequences of their behavior (Arthas loses his soul). Others are little more than acts of victimization against women, like Kerrigan, Leah, and Sylvanas. These acts also make them dress sexier. Overwatch was a deliberate attempt to deviate from traditional Blizzard archetypes. Out of curiosity, I wish Metzen was more specific in this quote: quote:[W]e made some really weird decisions with the lore over time, things I wish I could take back. Very proud of WoW, but in a way, retelling this story again in Duncan's deft hands was an opportunity for redemption, conceptual redemption.
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May 28, 2016 22:10
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What about the matroskas of ancient evils where each season's behind-the-scenes ancient evil is revealed to be just a pawn of the TRUE (we swear this time!) ancient evil in the next season?
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May 28, 2016 22:20
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Steve2911 posted:It turns out Blizzard writes pulpy dimestore fantasy fiction who knew. Which rules, I just don't know if that's what this movie is gonna be. From the trailers and that leaked scene it looks like it might be an overly serious and slow kind of movie? Not that pulp doesn't take itself seriously, just it does in a more fun way, if that makes sense. I mean something like that book The Crystal Shard or something like that. Hopefully this movie has some fun and adventure to it, and some of that kooky Warcraft nuttiness. And some epic Stormwind action. Also the extended trailer unforunately gives me some vibes of that latest Planet of the Apes movie that I found really boring. People versus a CGI war tribe, where it's all a misunderstanding we just need peace, I don't see the entertainment in that premise. Is this called Peacecraft? I guess I want a bit more of that Conan spirit, a bit less moralizing and stuff, just more crazy fun in a violent fantasy world. Or something. But I'll still give the movie a try, just not sure about it.
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May 28, 2016 22:26
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Toady posted:Metzen has joked that he repeats himself. He knows he relies on a plot twist of magical or psychic corruption, often as part of the master plan of an ancient fallen evil. Some of the better ones, like the transformation of Arthas, are a literal depiction of the consequences of their behavior (Arthas loses his soul). Others are little more than acts of victimization against women, like Kerrigan, Leah, and Sylvanas. These acts also make them dress sexier. Overwatch was a deliberate attempt to deviate from traditional Blizzard archetypes. I cracked up when somebody told me how the new design for infested Kerrigan, the ultimate evolved killing machine's armored body carapace included eight inch stiletto heels. Then I looked it up on google images and discovered the person wasn't joking.
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May 28, 2016 22:26
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Heavy Metal posted:Also the extended trailer unforunately gives me some vibes of that latest Planet of the Apes movie that I found really boring. Aww that was a really good movie. 
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May 28, 2016 22:33
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Couple more feauturettes. Metzen visiting the set and on the brink of tears seeing his creation come to life.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryOwayI8ee0 Also:  Durotan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ3W6oV6zHw
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May 28, 2016 23:37
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Toady posted:Out of curiosity, I wish Metzen was more specific in this quote: He's been specific about one: he says one of his biggest regrets with the Warcraft story and setting is making dragons anything but animals, especially the Aspects.
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May 28, 2016 23:45
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Cythereal posted:He's been specific about one: he says one of his biggest regrets with the Warcraft story and setting is making dragons anything but animals, especially the Aspects. But then we wouldn't have Chromie the time travelling dragon gnome. I really hope they get time travelling dragon gnomes in the movies by the second or third entry. stev fucked around with this message at 23:50 on May 28, 2016 |
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May 28, 2016 23:48
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Heavy Metal posted:Which rules, I just don't know if that's what this movie is gonna be. From the trailers and that leaked scene it looks like it might be an overly serious and slow kind of movie? Not that pulp doesn't take itself seriously, just it does in a more fun way, if that makes sense. I mean something like that book The Crystal Shard or something like that. Hopefully this movie has some fun and adventure to it, and some of that kooky Warcraft nuttiness. And some epic Stormwind action. I don't how awful the story is, I'd probably be able to enjoy the movie if all the trailers didn't make the scenes where reality and cgi mix look so awful. It's like there's a thick outline around every real actor and it makes all the cgi look out of place and weightless.
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May 29, 2016 00:36
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I got a discount to go see this movie for 7 bucks so I figure why the hell not.
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May 29, 2016 01:05
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With as much CGI as they put into the movie they might as well have just done it in house with their good animators. Blending live action with it makes it look bad.
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May 29, 2016 01:12
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Milky Moor posted:Compare it to Legacy of the Void where Amon, the big bad Xel'Naga, just turns Protoss evil with glowing red eyes at a whim with no foreshadowing or gravitas. It's a light switch that the bad guy can throw so you can fight someone without any moral quandaries (just like how the Tal'Darim in SC2 are Evil Protoss invented purely so Raynor can fight Protoss) It's nothing like what happened with Kerrigan and the Dark Templar Matriarch.
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May 29, 2016 07:46
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Invalid Validation posted:With as much CGI as they put into the movie they might as well have just done it in house with their good animators. Blending live action with it makes it look bad. Blizzard didn't make the movie and they definitely wouldn't have had the capacity or experience to make a full length feature.
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May 29, 2016 10:07
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I watched the movie yesterday evening and really enjoyed it. The WarCraft franchise was a big part of my growing up and some of my best friends are still people I met through WoW and the attached development community. That said a large part of the enjoyment came from recognizing places and people (camera pans over Stormwind and Ironforge were awesome), certain spells (mage portals, life tap) and a sense for how the overall storyline fits together. The last bit is probably something that will throw off people who haven't played any of the games, but the same could be said for LotR. Some parts felt a bit rushed and I didn't like the actor playing Medivh, but overall those complaints are small and I would watch it again.
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May 29, 2016 13:53
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Toady posted:Metzen has joked that he repeats himself. He knows he relies on a plot twist of magical or psychic corruption, often as part of the master plan of an ancient fallen evil. Some of the better ones, like the transformation of Arthas, are a literal depiction of the consequences of their behavior (Arthas loses his soul). Others are little more than acts of victimization against women, like Kerrigan, Leah, and Sylvanas. These acts also make them dress sexier. Overwatch was a deliberate attempt to deviate from traditional Blizzard archetypes. That's easy. His script got corrupted by demons but now it has redeemed itself. Why do you need more details than that in a story? Edit: For an actual review of the movie, as written by me after seeing it yesterday: It was ok. The story tried to hit beats, sometimes failing and sometimes succeeding. The quality of actors and the characters they portrayed varied very greatly (I personally liked Medivh's actor but hated the main character). The visuals were mostly good, though the uncanny valley effect and some weird design decisions on certain races made themselves known (I presume this was due to them focusing on making orcs look good and not giving enough time to make sure elves and dwarves didn't look so drat awkward. And what the hell was with the low quality of effects on glowy eyes?) My first really big issue with the movie was the constant info being thrown in the viewer's face. They switched from a scene in Ironforge to a barracks to Stormwind to Karazhan in the span of what felt like 10 minutes (with Ironforge only appearing for a minute at the most). And this was after we'd been on an alien world with our main antagonist introduced really quickly beforehand, with Draenei shown for about 30 seconds. There are a ton of races, mentioned only briefly, and a lot of characters and history are presented just as swiftly. The main characters are given just as much time as they need to be somewhat elaborated on, but not enough to make most of them interesting. The only character moment I ever felt had any genuine impact was when Medivh hinted that he is probably Garona's father . This was mainly because everything had to be rushed through so quickly to get the story where it needed to go, so every moment felt stilted and predictable. As a player of WoW for several years, I didn't need a lot of the lore being elaborated on, but for someone who is a complete newbie and just wanted to see a fantasy movie this movie will probably overwhelm them with things to try and focus on. The second big issue was one of communication. The best way I can describe it is that it felt like the script and directions for the actors had been run through Google Translate to a language similar to English, then back again. A lot of story beats came and went, but didn't have the impact they intended or just left me confused. Why is everyone being an rear end to that guy? Did that CGI character just die from all that magic or is he going to keep fighting? Why does that scene where the orc kills that character's relative not manage to impress any kind of emotion on me despite all this acting? Basically the movie felt like it was being played through a filter, or there was too much static going on, or both. Not in the sense of a picture, but what information and story was being presented, and in what order, like the grammar or sentence structure of the script was just a tiny bit off. That or the actors didn't have English as their main language and had a hard time understanding the script themselves. It didn't help that this was all obviously built up to serve as the start of a franchise. The movie never felt like it found its footing or knew what theme or message it wanted to convey because it was setting stuff up for coming movies. That war is hell? No, war seems to solve a lot of problems in the movie, so it can't be that. That people just make mistakes and that's why war happens? Well, maybe, but considering how all the big issues of the movie were contrived to the point of characters spelling out the mistake the other characters will need to make, that isn't really clear either. That CORRUPTION is bad? Well, maybe, but it seems to be working out just fine with Gul'Dan. What about just having a clear villain and some good guys and seeing them defeat that bad guy, possibly by hitting him with swords? Considering at the end of the movie [spoiler] all that's happened to Gul'dan is he's somewhat ticked off and lost a mostly inept second-in-command and most of the good guys are dead[/spoiler ]then not really. The biggest problem with the movie itself though is that I can't really see why I would recommend people spend time and money to see it. Again, it isn't bad, but it really has no hooks going for it other than "See the lore done slightly better in the shape of a film". And I guess enjoy some of the cooler visuals. Edit 2: Oh, and strangely enough having seen it just yesterday, the medium sized Euro theater I was in was packed almost to the brim (sans one or two seats). This despite it not being opening night or the day after. I'm not sure if that is due to people expecting tickets to sell out or if it really left a good enough impression on first-time viewers to draw in new hopefuls when word-of-mouth got around. evilmiera fucked around with this message at 20:58 on May 30, 2016 |
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May 30, 2016 20:06
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Never realised how big and buff Gul'dan is. I felt that the movie ended fairly abruptly, timed perfectly for a sequel
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May 30, 2016 22:09
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Just saw it. My biggest problem with the film is there wasn't a single loving gnome. Not in Ironforge, not at that lovely council meeting. Ball dropped.
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May 30, 2016 22:58
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Not Operator posted:Just saw it. My biggest problem with the film is there wasn't a single loving gnome. Not in Ironforge, not at that lovely council meeting. IIRC of the lore, the gnomes were more or less total recluses until they nuked their city, which didn't happen until around the war3/wow period
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May 30, 2016 23:11
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No Mods No Masters posted:IIRC of the lore, the gnomes were more or less total recluses until they nuked their city, which didn't happen until around the war3/wow period Yeah, I begrudgingly remember the lore, but all I wanted was one. edit: I thought the movie was really average, but I went with my wife and another couple who aren't nerds, and have never played a warcraft game. For some reason, I felt incredibly concerned about whether or not they liked it. It was like the feeling when you show a friend a movie you love, and you want them to love it too. This, despite me not loving the movie at all. I didn't even want to see it. So I guess tonight I learned I'm still weirdly attached to Warcraft for some reason. Not Operator fucked around with this message at 23:46 on May 30, 2016 |
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May 30, 2016 23:17
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Saw this headline on Endgadget; "Can 'Warcraft' break the curse of the video game movie?" Went to Rotten Tomatoes and saw it's at 19% two weeks before it even comes out. Curse remains unbroken.
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May 31, 2016 00:18
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Jamesman posted:Went to Rotten Tomatoes and saw it's at 19% two weeks before it even comes out. My theory is that a lot of the people rating it badly (sometimes without having seen it) are people who used to play WoW and now pretend they've "grown out of it" and  about it to make themselves feel more like adults.evilmiera posted:(I personally liked Medivh's actor but hated the main character) Who do you consider to be the main character? I can think of three potentials
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May 31, 2016 00:26
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tazjin posted:My theory is that a lot of the people rating it badly (sometimes without having seen it) are people who used to play WoW and now pretend they've "grown out of it" and I don't think that applies to the professional reviewers that RT draws its % from, but you tell me!
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May 31, 2016 00:32
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MrL_JaKiri posted:I don't think that applies to the professional reviewers that RT draws its % from, but you tell me! WoW is roughly 12 years old. I'm certain that its playerbase included some of these professional reviewers, who despite being professionals probably aren't unbiased. The video game stigma is just hard to overcome  There are many worse movies rated much higher on RT ...
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May 31, 2016 00:35
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quote:How Rotten Tomatoes Works
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May 31, 2016 00:39
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RT's a bit swingy like that - 10 2/5 reviews are worth less than 9 1/5 reviews and 1 3/5 review. A low score can just be about a film being painfully mediocre rather than bad, necessarily.
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May 31, 2016 00:39
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The entire internet has been mocking the movie for half a year, are you really that surprised that reviewers aren't that kind on it
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May 31, 2016 00:45
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Jamesman posted:Saw this headline on Endgadget; Start the parade! Start the parade! Rotten Tomatoes agrees with me! VALIDATION
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May 31, 2016 00:49
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I liked the hyena laugh you can hear in the background when they're going through Elwynn Forest (heh! Hogger! HEHH!) Other than that, um. Hm. I cringed through most of it, but it had a couple okay moments like Blackhand being like 'Oh? This? This kid is yours? This one? *HRRRK*
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May 31, 2016 01:19
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I'm gonna be honest and say it doesn't look like a good movie. Good night and God bless.
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May 31, 2016 01:21
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I've got to hand it to Universal, releasing it everywhere except the USA and watching international critics and audiences kick the poo poo out of it for two weeks is a really novel way of building hype.
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May 31, 2016 01:23
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Vintersorg posted:Start the parade! Start the parade! Rotten Tomatoes agrees with me! I also went to MetaCritic and it has a rating of 36 so 
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May 31, 2016 01:50
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No healthy person is invested in review aggregation, nor do they view moviegoing as a binary decision between complete satisfaction or anxious despair over a wasted ticket purchase.
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May 31, 2016 02:28
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tazjin posted:My theory is that a lot of the people rating it badly (sometimes without having seen it) are people who used to play WoW and now pretend they've "grown out of it" and Or, it is a bad movie. I have not seen it yet so I can't say for myself, but lots of others have. And it looks like dogshit.
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May 31, 2016 03:27
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Should have made a good self contained movie first, Arthas has a good story arc. But I guess generic orcs vs generic humans is more in line with original Warcraft.
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May 31, 2016 03:40
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Toady posted:Out of curiosity, I wish Metzen was more specific in this quote: I imagine that the answer is one that would ultimately infuriate folks here: what he's most upset with is the black-and-white nature of the original two games. Orcs are innately terrible and demonic, Humans are innately noble and faithful, etc. He calls it redemption; he likes that there will be a Warcraft 1 story with all the graying/thematic balancing that Warcraft 3 added, baked in from frame one. No longer will the Orcs suddenly gain a sympathetic backstory three story beats in, we'll sympathetically witness that backstory happening. The audience (ideally) won't see demonic green orcs and think  , we'll think  . We'll no longer (ideally) root for the Noble and Good Alliance, we'll be spitting on the names of the xenophobic humans who pushed for war despite the pleas of the Hero Humans.
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May 31, 2016 05:10
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