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mobby_6kl posted:Does anyone know what's the status of the Ukraine visa agreement? All I can find is months old and no indication where it is in the pipeline. Apparently both France and Germany want to hold off on new visa agreements until some sort of 'snap-back mechanism' is in force, where visa-free travel can be suspended in case of some crisis (say if hundreds of thousands of refugees arrive). The Dutch government will probably also be happy with a delay since otherwise they would have to take responsibility for it, given that the Netherlands holds the rotating presidency of the Council. So Ukrainians will have to waitt.
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May 31, 2016 16:19
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https://next.ft.com/content/4d3475ca-2734-11e6-8ba3-cdd781d02d89quote:Support for Angela Merkel’s ruling conservative bloc and her Social Democrat coalition partners has dropped below 50 per cent for the first time since the rebirth of German democracy after the second world war. Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. Surely some revelation is at hand; Surely the Second Coming is at hand. The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand; A shape with lion body and the head of a man, A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds. The darkness drops again but now I know That twenty centuries of stony sleep Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Berlin to be born?
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May 31, 2016 22:19
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LemonDrizzle posted:https://next.ft.com/content/4d3475ca-2734-11e6-8ba3-cdd781d02d89 If not for the italics I would have guessed this was a Mcdowell post.
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May 31, 2016 22:55
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It's interesting. In comparison, the USA have already seen multiple political parties die and disappear over the course of their multiple century long history. It looks like know it's time for our German democracy to see the death of their first parties. (I'm still hoping for the FDP to die first.)
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May 31, 2016 22:57
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I'm looking forward to dying in a pointless war that happens because one country's party of idiots pisses off another country's party of idiots and sets off the whole shebang.
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May 31, 2016 23:01
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Tesseraction posted:I'm looking forward to dying in a pointless war that happens because one country's party of idiots pisses off another country's party of idiots and sets off the whole shebang. I mean in theory the EU is probably supposed to deter that.
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May 31, 2016 23:02
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world war three, it's going to be france vs germany again.OwlFancier posted:I mean in theory the league of nations is probably supposed to deter that.
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May 31, 2016 23:03
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Libluini posted:It's interesting. In comparison, the USA have already seen multiple political parties die and disappear over the course of their multiple century long history. It looks like know it's time for our German democracy to see the death of their first parties. I'm guessing history is not really your thing?
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May 31, 2016 23:11
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Lagotto posted:I'm guessing history is not really your thing? Quite the opposite, actually
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May 31, 2016 23:15
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Libluini posted:Quite the opposite, actually Maybe American history then? The European political landscape has always been incredibly fragmented compared to the US one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historical_political_parties_in_Germany
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May 31, 2016 23:21
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Libluini posted:It's interesting. In comparison, the USA have already seen multiple political parties die and disappear over the course of their multiple century long history. It looks like know it's time for our German democracy to see the death of their first parties. The last major party to die in America was the Whigs in 1854, and they were a) only around for 21 years and b) never a stable party.
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May 31, 2016 23:29
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Lagotto posted:Maybe American history then? The European political landscape has always been incredibly fragmented compared to the US one. I was talking about the modern German state, which only started existing in 1949. Additionally, that list includes totally irrelevant small groups I've never heard off. Certainly no major German party of the republic has died so far. fishmech posted:The last major party to die in America was the Whigs in 1854, and they were a) only around for 21 years and b) never a stable party. Sorry, you're flat out wrong here.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:01
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Libluini posted:I was talking about the modern German state, which only started existing in 1949. Additionally, that list includes totally irrelevant small groups I've never heard off. Certainly no major German party of the republic has died so far. Oh... this is why I hear Germans saying their universities are second-rate. Federalist economic policies were keystones of the Whigs and Republicans, the "Jeffersonian Republican Party" is generally understood to actually be a continuous Democratic party from Jefferson on down that instead shifted with the various party systems which real political scientists and historians use to understand American politics. You can try again next year.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:05
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No party who has never won the Presidency nor secured a majority in the Congress counts as a major party, sorry dude. Hence, the Whigs were the last major party to die, because they were both the last party besides the Republicans and Democrats to hold a presidency AND the last party besides those two to hold a majority in either house of Congress. You'd know this if you knew anything about American politics, kleine Deutsch. So it's you who is flat out wrong.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:19
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Libluini posted:I was talking about the modern German state, which only started existing in 1949. Additionally, that list includes totally irrelevant small groups I've never heard off. Certainly no major German party of the republic has died so far. Now you are just moving goal posts, are comparing two completely different periods and still manage to be wrong. It is no big deal, but I really don't see how you can look at US history and German history and then make that post.
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Jun 1, 2016 05:31
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Well, the USA have first past the post election system and Germany has mostly a proportional voting system. The one leads to fewer parties but who have more tension within them (e.g. traditional Republicans vs. Tea Party Republicans or EU supporting Tories vs EU sceptic Tories) while the other has more parties (e.g. SPD/Linke or CDU/FDP) who are not that different.
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Jun 1, 2016 06:50
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Good luck Germany.
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Jun 1, 2016 07:04
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It looks like there is hope at last for Greece https://twitter.com/ggathens/status/737762307573448705
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Jun 1, 2016 08:21
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Lagotto posted:Now you are just moving goal posts, are comparing two completely different periods and still manage to be wrong. It is no big deal, but I really don't see how you can look at US history and German history and then make that post. When people talk about German democracy, they usually mean the FRG. The Weimar Republic was such a short lived clusterfuck and failure that it's hardly worth the term democracy. Our political system has been pretty stable throughout the entire history of the Republic and what is happening now is a yuuuuge deal. Much bigger than the emergence of the greens or the left party. - the FDP just kneeled over and died, leaving Germany without a single influential liberal party - a tiny neo-liberal movement, founded by a professor of economics, turned into a gigantic racist right wing monstrosity, slowly overtaking the SPD in popularity - the SPD turned into an incompetent pro-buisness party and is trying to commit suicide at every opportunity they get(soon they will get their wish) - the unholy union of CSU and CDU is shaking
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Jun 1, 2016 12:14
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waitwhatno posted:When people talk about German democracy, they usually mean the FRG. The Weimar Republic was such a short lived clusterfuck and failure that it's hardly worth the term democracy. The crumbling of the established European center is quite evident, and is certainly an interesting development even though it has already been two decades in the making. That does not make the faulty comparison with two centuries of US any less ridiculous though. I still have no clear idea what was intended with the comparison except as some kind of weird reference to this being part of democracies coming of age or something. If that was indeed his point, then I am sorry, that is not what is happening and one could easily argue that the entire period starting at the second half of the 19th century is Europe developing as democracies. What is happening now, both in the US and Europe has no parallel with US history and is in fact a fair bit more troubling then the romanticised notions Libluini posts seems to imply. But maybe I am reading too much into it.
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Jun 1, 2016 12:40
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Meanwhile, fewer than 500 of 163,000 asylum seekers in Sweden last year found jobs lol 
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Jun 1, 2016 23:04
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pigdog posted:Meanwhile, fewer than 500 of 163,000 asylum seekers in Sweden last year found jobs Yes, I wonder why people might not hire someone who might be deported within a short period of time.
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Jun 1, 2016 23:06
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Tesseraction posted:Yes, I wonder why people might not hire someone who might be deported within a short period of time. After all, it can't be because they're all underqualified.
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Jun 1, 2016 23:24
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pigdog posted:Meanwhile, fewer than 500 of 163,000 asylum seekers in Sweden last year found jobs So how many of those are children?
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Jun 1, 2016 23:25
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Hell just do what the germans do, use them as 6 euro an hour slave labor in one of your monolith factories. You could bring back SAAB with those cuts in production costs
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Jun 1, 2016 23:28
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Ilustforponydeath posted:After all, it can't be because they're all underqualified. Well obviously it's because they're lazy. So lazy they travelled thousands of miles from home risking death.
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Jun 1, 2016 23:34
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Tesseraction posted:Yes, I wonder why people might not hire someone who might be deported within a short period of time. That also don't know the language and who might not even have the necessary education. Sweden has a very regulated job market with quite a low proportion of low skilled jobs available. Service oriented jobs generally demands that the person knows the local language, while several lines of work that in many other places are classified as low skill jobs for anyone, such as carpenter, requires a 1-2 year education/internship to work as and perform insurance valid work. Aside from this they are generally not allowed to work unless they have been processed correctly, and the backlog for processing is likely a year or so. In short, the numbers makes sense.
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Jun 1, 2016 23:39
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Tesseraction posted:Well obviously it's because they're lazy. So lazy they travelled thousands of miles from home risking death. Or a combination of unsuitable skillsets, language problems and just about everything else you can think of when immigrating to a fundamentally different society and job market. But you went with "those darn racist employers". That's quite a brain you've got there.
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Jun 1, 2016 23:41
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Tesseraction posted:Well obviously it's because they're lazy. So lazy they travelled thousands of miles from home risking death. Not only that, but many of them repeat the journey in the other direction: http://www.thelocal.se/20160504/why-weary-asylum-seekers-are-leaving-sweden Which raises the question of whether they needed asylum in the first place.
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Jun 1, 2016 23:48
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Ilustforponydeath posted:Or a combination of unsuitable skillsets, language problems and just about everything else you can think of when immigrating to a fundamentally different society and job market. But you went with "those darn racist employers". Except I didn't, but it's comical you went there as if to accuse me of calling people racist. See, here in what I believe is called 'business sense' one looks at a potential employee and whether they can meaningfully contribute to the company long-term. If I had someone who was on tenuous employment status because they may have to move soon, then I wouldn't hire them. It's almost like asylum seekers are... a bad idea to hire??? Shocking idea I know. And you assumed it was because I thought you were racist. That's quite a brain you've got there.
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Jun 1, 2016 23:58
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Tesseraction posted:Except I didn't, but it's comical you went there as if to accuse me of calling people racist. No your post Tesseraction posted:Well obviously it's because they're lazy. So lazy they travelled thousands of miles from home risking death. reads exactly like you're accusing him of racism. Either you're completely insincere or you need to make words better.
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Jun 2, 2016 00:04
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The Belgian posted:No your post Well it's interesting you claim this, because on first reading I thought their post was racist, but then I figured to be charitable and assume they were making fun of typical racial talking point, so I replied by making fun of another racist talking point. The idea being that if I was right and they were also joking then no harm done. But then they got offended so I guess that showed me? Like this post managed to capture it without being racist in the slightest: Zudgemud posted:That also don't know the language and who might not even have the necessary education. Sweden has a very regulated job market with quite a low proportion of low skilled jobs available. Service oriented jobs generally demands that the person knows the local language, while several lines of work that in many other places are classified as low skill jobs for anyone, such as carpenter, requires a 1-2 year education/internship to work as and perform insurance valid work. Aside from this they are generally not allowed to work unless they have been processed correctly, and the backlog for processing is likely a year or so. In short, the numbers makes sense.
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Jun 2, 2016 00:37
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I'm not sure a large volume of asylum seekers will really mesh super well into the normal economy of a country unless the country's economy has already figured out a way to That's the sort of thing state schemes would be better at doing.
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Jun 2, 2016 01:05
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They will return once the coast is clear to build their life where they can. Barring actual socialism (and even there I have my doubts), it'd be impossible to provide all of them with meaningful, en franchised lives wherein they are masters of their own destiny if they do not have the tools already to develop their economic independence. That's no way to live. But considering hunger and death is the alternative, the only proper course of action is to treat them like citizens and provide them with what's necessary so that they can become functional members of society, no? I'm sure the ones who stay will be fashioning their own petit bourgeois in no time, in order to serve the despondent and destitute underclass, bedridden in their new enclave somewhere in a lovely Stockholm neighborhood.
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Jun 2, 2016 01:12
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SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:They will return once the coast is clear to build their life where they can. Not very likely, if history is anything to go by.
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Jun 2, 2016 02:50
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Cake Smashing Boob posted:Not very likely, if history is anything to go by.
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Jun 2, 2016 05:03
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Peace in the Middle East is like fusion; always 20 years away. They used to say that about Ireland though.
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Jun 2, 2016 05:13
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Y'all are being disingenuous now and deliberately misreading the stated condition, as if absolute peace in the middle east was ever the premise in anyone's goddam argument. Many of the Syrian refugees that I've spoken want to return eventually. They've lived there until recently and they'll do so again.
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Jun 2, 2016 07:22
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Tesseraction posted:Well obviously it's because they're lazy. So lazy they travelled thousands of miles from home risking death. Risking death in such dangerous countries as Austria, Germany and Denmark.
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Jun 2, 2016 08:02
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Double Bill posted:Risking death in such dangerous countries as Austria, Germany and Denmark. As we all know, a journey starts with its destination.
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