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Chill la Chill posted:put a timer on a turn like duels did. And if you're a grog that can't put up with that, gently caress you and stick with paper. This will work very well with decks like Storm!
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May 31, 2016 22:29
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Reuse is good, but polymorphism is overrated. Also "just make a new client from scratch" is what they just did, recently in fact. If you all recall it was a poo poo show for 18 months after release. nooope. backend was still the same. mtg digital next is the ground up rewrite of everything
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May 31, 2016 22:29
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suicidesteve posted:This will work very well with decks like Storm! Yes it will because that deck is not hard to parse lines for and anyone who has goldfished it 3 times on their own will know if they can go off on a turn.
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May 31, 2016 22:33
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Modern Knighthelm / Aggro thing. It's fun to play! Deck: Bant Aggro/Control     //Lands 2 Breeding Pool 3 Flooded Strand 1 Forest 1 Island 2 Ghost Quarter 1 Hallowed Fountain 2 Misty Rainforest 1 Gavony Township 1 Wooded Foothills 1 Plains 1 Sacred Foundry 1 Stomping Ground 2 Temple Garden 4 Windswept Heath //Spells 3 Boros Charm 3 Lightning Bolt 4 Path to Exile 2 Remand 3 Retreat to Coralhelm //Creatures 2 Geist of Saint Traft 4 Knight of the Reliquary 4 Noble Hierarch 4 Steppe Lynx 4 Voice of Resurgence 4 Wild Nacatl //Sideboard 3 Spellskite 2 Dispel 2 Flashfreeze 2 Celestial Purge 3 Kitchen Finks 2 Remand 1 Wilt-Leaf Liege  Display deck statistics
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May 31, 2016 22:42
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suicidesteve posted:This will work very well with decks like Storm! Play faster or else your opponent will spam "WELL PLAYED WELL PLAYED" at you. I don't see the problem here. 
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May 31, 2016 22:46
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born on a buy you posted:nooope. backend was still the same. mtg digital next is the ground up rewrite of everything Well yeah obviously you keep the rules engine and the db. That's why I said client. Also digital next could be anything. They've said nothing other than "we're working on something that will appeal to everyone" and anything more than that is pure speculation.
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May 31, 2016 23:26
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born on a buy you posted:nooope. backend was still the same. mtg digital next is the ground up rewrite of everything Has this been stated anywhere or is this pure speculation?
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May 31, 2016 23:28
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Well yeah obviously you keep the rules engine and the db. That's why I said client. The backend is the part that everyone's saying is the problem, though? "WotC's coverage team is awful, the whole thing needs to be rebuilt from the ground up with actual effort this time." "Whoa whoa whoa! Don't you know that just last week, WotC's commentators started wearing lighter-colored shirts?"
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May 31, 2016 23:31
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ButtWolf posted:What's the funnest deck you've played/built? Links please. Want to try some new stuff. My Esper Mill (Modern) and Captain Sisay (EDH) decks are two of the first decks I put together when I got back into the game, and still the most fun I've had. Honorable mention goes to the really dumb Kuldotha Red deck I was playing in Modern for a hot minute, for the one time I managed a 20-damage turn 2 attack. Turn 1: Mountain, Mox Opal, tap Mountain -> Signal Pest Turn 2: 2nd Mountain, tap 1 Mountain -> Signal Pest, tap Opal -> Kuldotha Rebirth (sac Opal), play Opal, tap Opal+Mountain -> kicked Goblin Bushwhacker, swing all. I first thought your post said funniest, which would definitely go to Official RTR/THS Standard Deck of the Something Awful Magic: the Gathering Thread MURDERGOATS.
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May 31, 2016 23:47
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ButtWolf posted:What's the funnest deck you've played/built? Links please. Want to try some new stuff. Amulet Bloom. What a weird, crazy deck.
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May 31, 2016 23:48
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some dude w/ an adventure time (i think) avatar was supposed to PM me the details of a store that will very quickly lose their WPN status. i've yet to get this pm. where did you go buddy?
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May 31, 2016 23:52
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Telex posted:More customers. Is this a trick question? More customers but with a much lower ARPU is not a good strategy. Decoupling the physical from the digital is going to devalue the poo poo out of the other, and you can't treat them as separate business models because they're intrinsically linked. You're going to have to show your sources on Hearthstone making more money than MTG in a year, and more importantly you're going to have to point out anyone else in the market who is doing better than WotC because Blizzard is an outlier in general thanks to a brand that's got millions of built in users. A cursory search reveals that Heartstone was making $20m/month, but Hasbro's Games division was $261m in Q1. I'm not sure what the exact magic breakdown is, but I don't think Magic making $60m of that is unreasonable, given the brand. I've seen Hearthstone listed as beating Duels, but that's not beating Magic.
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May 31, 2016 23:59
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born on a buy you posted:some dude w/ an adventure time (i think) avatar was supposed to PM me the details of a store that will very quickly lose their WPN status. i've yet to get this pm. where did you go buddy? Oh yeah I forgot. I'll PM you later this evening. Thanks for reminding me. I'll try to recount it to the best of my ability but much of it was only voiced or implied and not written down anywhere so idk how much you can do with that.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:01
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hearthstone makes ~$1mil/day atm
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Jun 1, 2016 00:01
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Sigma-X posted:More customers but with a much lower ARPU is not a good strategy. Decoupling the physical from the digital is going to devalue the poo poo out of the other, and you can't treat them as separate business models because they're intrinsically linked. You're going to have to show your sources on Hearthstone making more money than MTG in a year, and more importantly you're going to have to point out anyone else in the market who is doing better than WotC because Blizzard is an outlier in general thanks to a brand that's got millions of built in users. Yeah, a more popular game is not a good strategy.  And no, there is no way magic brings in more money than hearthstone. Hell, in 2012 they made 25 millionin gross revenue. At this point hearthstone might have made more money in its short existence than magic ever has in its 20+ years. https://issuu.com/joelferguson2/docs/annualreportweb Sickening fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 00:03
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Sickening posted:Yeah, a more popular game is not a good strategy. eh, in 2013 it was estimated at $250m annually, and it has grown since then, although 2016 thus far has been stagnant. The $20m/month Hearthstone figure from 2015 puts them at $240m annually. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/04/05/magic-the-gathering-hasbros-key-to-growth.aspx I can't imagine they're that far removed from each other, and it'd be great if someone could find more up to date data for Hearthstone than the 2015 Superdata report estimating $20m/month.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:07
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Sigma-X posted:eh, in 2013 it was estimated at $250m annually, and it has grown since then, although 2016 thus far has been stagnant. The $20m/month Hearthstone figure from 2015 puts them at $240m annually. Thats hasbros game division, not just magic. I linked magic's actually numbers.  This is 2012. Of course it has probably gone up, but even so, there is no way they compete with hearthstone. I think its hilarious that even with all the game hasbro owns it might not beat hearthstone in total revenue. Sickening fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 00:09
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Sickening posted:Thats hasbros game division, not just magic. I linked magic's actually numbers. That is pretty bad. Their EPS was half what it was the year before.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:19
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Sickening posted:Thats hasbros game division, not just magic. I linked magic's actually numbers. I'm pretty sure those numbers are in thousands of dollars, in other words, the 25m at the top is actually $250m
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Jun 1, 2016 00:20
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Sigma-X posted:I'm pretty sure those numbers are in thousands of dollars, in other words, the 25m at the top is actually $250m  Okay man... sure. http://www.examiner.com/article/hasbro-announces-2013-financial-results-plans-for-magic-the-gathering-movie  Can you stop now? I mean holy poo poo. You are loving clueless. Sickening fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 00:22
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Sigma-X posted:I'm pretty sure those numbers are in thousands of dollars, in other words, the 25m at the top is actually $250m Wouldn't that be tens of dollars?
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Jun 1, 2016 00:25
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Judd Stackington posted:I think the MTGO client is - aesthetically at least - absolutely fine and completely appropriate for the game. I'd be happy with a Hearthstone-ish ranked play system with a ladder, an option for phantom drafts so I can just draft for the fun of it and more opportunities to get play points for free. The MODO client is aesthetically not great, the way it resizes the battlefield as you play cards is counter intuitive, the text is impossible to read while streaming, and if you weren't intimately familiar with MTG you wouldn't be able to follow a stream at all. The MODO client absolutely has to be streaming friendly.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:26
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Wouldn't that be tens of dollars? Yeah, it would. I don't know how Magic is Hasbro's flagship Games brand in a division that makes over a billion a year if it's revenue is $25m like Sickening thinks.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:36
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Sigma-X posted:Yeah, it would. Sorry you couldn't back your opinions with actual facts. 25 million seems embarrassingly low. But considering its WOTC own report...
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Jun 1, 2016 00:37
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$25m seems exceptionally low for a global business. What the hell are they doing?
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Jun 1, 2016 00:40
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MrL_JaKiri posted:$25m seems exceptionally low for a global business. What the hell are they doing? Selling pieces of cardboard for $250,000,000.00? Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 00:43
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MrL_JaKiri posted:$25m seems exceptionally low for a global business. What the hell are they doing? Losing out on digital sales and catering to the secondary market.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:46
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WotC does not make $25m a year sales. They have 500-1000 employees according to Linkedin. 750 employees * $60,000 average salary = $45m. Cost of sales is listed as $7.5m on that sheet. Like seriously think about what you're saying.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:46
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Sickening posted:Sorry you couldn't back your opinions with actual facts. Uh, I'm pretty sure you're wrong and he is right and you are being a dick about it. Let's put it this way, you're basing this on your reading of the word "brand" in that article to mean that the games division itself is worth $250,000,000 and MTG is like 10% of that. Except Hasbro as a corporation has public reports and its revenue in 2012 is public information: it's $4,190,000,000.00. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 00:47
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MrL_JaKiri posted:$25m seems exceptionally low for a global business. What the hell are they doing? i mean it's still ultra-niche isn't it? i don't really feel like there's a high ceiling to start with
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Jun 1, 2016 00:53
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It is ultra niche
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Jun 1, 2016 00:54
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Angry Grimace posted:Uh, I'm pretty sure you're wrong and he is right and you are being a dick about it. Let's put it this way, you're basing this on your reading of the word "brand" in that article to mean that the games division itself is worth $250,000,000 and MTG is like 10% of that. Except Hasbro as a corporation has public reports and its revenue in 2012 is public information: it's $4,190,000,000.00. I would concede I might be wrong to think they make 25 million-ish but come the gently caress on. I am reading what is actually out there for me to read. Both you and Sigma are quoting Hasbro revenue as if that is the clear indication on what WOTC is making. I am pretty loving sure that Hasbro games division has a lot of different games in it outside of magic. Even if magic makes up 40% of that entire division total it still gets dunked on by hearthstone. I gave you the report straight from WOTC in 2012. You are just arguing with the report... not me.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:59
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I think it's rather easy to come to the conclusion that Hearthstone is a more successful game than Magic Online. I do not think, however, that the game Hearthstone alone is more profitable than the entirety of Wizards of the Coast, even if Maro is a dang goober who won't reprint Tropical Island. These are easy conclusions to reach without playing amateur accountant and trying to crunch the numbers from random press releases.
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Jun 1, 2016 01:05
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e:^ oh yeah, totally. MTGO is like 30% of Magic's revenue as a whole. They're intrinsically linked as products, though.Sickening posted:I would concede I might be wrong to think they make 25 million-ish but come the gently caress on. I am reading what is actually out there for me to read. Both you and Sigma are quoting Hasbro revenue as if that is the clear indication on what WOTC is making. I am pretty loving sure that Hasbro games division has a lot of different games in it outside of magic. Even if magic makes up 40% of that entire division total it still gets dunked on. If Magic makes 40% of the Games Division that's like $440m/year. I've been looking for WotC specific numbers but can't find them, unless they're buried in the earnings call transcripts but I'm not going to get a seekingalpha account to read those and I can't find them anywhere else. There's no loving way it's $25m/year on Magic as their largest or second largest Games Brand. To put things in perspective, Mirage had a print run of 400m cards, which means about 26m 15 card boosters. At $1/pack wholesale to distributor revenue, that's $26m. And that's Mirage. Multiple sources on the internet are estimating it at about $250m/yr in 2013 with growth since then.
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Jun 1, 2016 01:05
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Magic is about 25% of Hasboro's "Games" division last I heard it mentioned on a call. Q1 2016 - http://investor.hasbro.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=965461 - $231.1 Million (~$57 million MTG for Q1. Q1 is usually its second-weakest quarter, on top of Magic growth not being significant compared to Q1 2015) FY 2015 - http://investor.hasbro.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=953697 - $1,276.5 Millon (~$319 million for MTG in 2015, which was listed as a good year for the product) Can this please stop now?
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Jun 1, 2016 01:10
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There's no way Magic is 40% of the Games revenue, Monopoly/Yahtzee/Twister/Sorry/Scrabble are almost certainly the big money. If MTG revenue is actually around 25 million, the amount spent on the Pro Tour is a little ridiculous.
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Jun 1, 2016 01:11
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Sickening posted:I would concede I might be wrong to think they make 25 million-ish but come the gently caress on. I am reading what is actually out there for me to read. Both you and Sigma are quoting Hasbro revenue as if that is the clear indication on what WOTC is making. I am pretty loving sure that Hasbro games division has a lot of different games in it outside of magic. Even if magic makes up 40% of that entire division total it still gets dunked on by hearthstone. It's just basic logic. I don't know where you got that report, but the official Hasbro one clearly says:   There's no way the Games division is making well over a billion in revenues and the largest brand is making 2.5% of the division's revenue.
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Jun 1, 2016 01:14
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Skyl3lazer posted:Magic is about 25% of Hasboro's "Games" division last I heard it mentioned on a call. thank you for listening to calls so we don't have to do so. So with that in mind, let's get back to the original point - Magic the Gathering should completely deepsix their business model and cannibalize their existing revenue streams to turn MODO into Hearthstone to maybe (if their user base recovers) hit roughly the same revenue Hearthstone is getting?
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Jun 1, 2016 01:17
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Skyl3lazer posted:Magic is about 25% of Hasboro's "Games" division last I heard it mentioned on a call. Nah it's $25 million, I just checked my sources (my rear end).
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Jun 1, 2016 01:25
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This thread is more mad about their chosen hobby than the xbone thread, somehow
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Jun 1, 2016 01:28
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