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The nice thing about that era of X-Men is that there was an annual linewide crossover, so it makes read orders easy: pick a series, read up to just before the crossover, read the next. Repeat until you're up to the crossover, then read that, then move along. The bad thing is that for as bad as the crossovers are in that time, the interstitial comics are even worse since they get time for maybe three short story arcs before having to start setting up for the crossover.
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May 31, 2016 18:23
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And it makes the soap opera-y character beats that are so important to the X-Men's appeal feel like editorial mileposts, rather than the result of character work done in the interstitial titles.
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May 31, 2016 18:30
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Endless Mike posted:The nice thing about that era of X-Men is that there was an annual linewide crossover, so it makes read orders easy: pick a series, read up to just before the crossover, read the next. Repeat until you're up to the crossover, then read that, then move along. I tried doing this before, and just after AoA everything seemed to fall apart. I get the impression there must have been a series I was missing, but the only thing I don't have is Wolverine IIRC, so I'm not even sure where these story beats are happening at.
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May 31, 2016 18:43
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rkajdi posted:When I meant reduction in interest, I meant from a fan/Patreon perspective. They do rather well from a comics podcast, but I'm more than a little worried that bunches of people will jump off some time around the Muir Island saga. Without that money, I see the podcast dying, which is a shame since it's the only comic-related podcast I can bear to listen to. I really doubt it, because people will listen to hear Jay and Miles talk about the comics, not the comics themselves.
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May 31, 2016 18:56
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twistedmentat posted:I really doubt it, because people will listen to hear Jay and Miles talk about the comics, not the comics themselves. That is true. They are legitimately entertaining on their own, and I expect some funny stuff being found even in the 90s. I know I'll be disappointed if we don't get the picture of Adam X riding a can of Mountain Dew, for instance.
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May 31, 2016 19:12
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rkajdi posted:I tried doing this before, and just after AoA everything seemed to fall apart. I get the impression there must have been a series I was missing, but the only thing I don't have is Wolverine IIRC, so I'm not even sure where these story beats are happening at. If I recall, when they restarted everything post-AoA, they did the whole gap thing where they pretended they had been publishing for the four months for ~mystery~
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May 31, 2016 19:13
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Endless Mike posted:If I recall, when they restarted everything post-AoA, they did the whole gap thing where they pretended they had been publishing for the four months for ~mystery~ Specifically, the Dark Beast substitution for 616 Beast seems to happen off-screen, but every indication when he shows up in the comics gives me the idea that I should have known about it well before then.
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May 31, 2016 20:27
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rkajdi posted:Specifically, the Dark Beast substitution for 616 Beast seems to happen off-screen, but every indication when he shows up in the comics gives me the idea that I should have known about it well before then. It's in X-Men Unlimited #10. I had to look the issue up, but I remember reading the issue in a convenience store back in the day. It's shockingly violent.
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May 31, 2016 20:57
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Wanderer posted:It's in X-Men Unlimited #10. That would be my issue-- I don't have any of the Unlimited series. Was that sort of like Justice League Quarterly, in that it was a gap filler for fifth weeks?
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May 31, 2016 21:05
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rkajdi posted:That would be my issue-- I don't have any of the Unlimited series. Was that sort of like Justice League Quarterly, in that it was a gap filler for fifth weeks?
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May 31, 2016 21:09
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Any thoughts on the post-credits scene in Apocalypse? It's teasing Mr. Sinister. I'm not too familiar with the guy, all I really know is his role in Inferno and the time he turned everybody in San Francisco into clones of himself. As much as I'd pay to see the latter, I'm guessing it's going to revolve around Sinister cloning people, probably resulting in X-23 since Hugh Jackman's getting ready to leave the franchise. I suppose you could throw Inferno into the blender, too, if you really wanted, and put Mystique in the Madelyne Pryor role. But going from Apocalypse to Sinister just seems like kind of a step down.
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Jun 1, 2016 01:36
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Rochallor posted:Any thoughts on the post-credits scene in Apocalypse? It's teasing Mr. Sinister. Sinister has been interested in the Summers and Grey bloodlines since his creation/conversion by Apocalypse, which was in The Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix (because of course they had a time travel honeymoon) which also has a really cool-looking Egyptian version of Apocalypse in it. Sinister is also responsible for a large chunk of Gambit's backstory, Angel losing his original wings, etc. The Morlock Massacre is kind of Sinister's Big Storyline.
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Jun 1, 2016 01:53
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EDIT: Oops, though this was the movie thread.
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Jun 1, 2016 03:32
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Rochallor posted:
Oh god please no.  Just give us actual Madelyne THE GOBLIN QUEEN if you have to. I love that storyline, but ... I think I would die.
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Jun 1, 2016 03:36
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I've read that they want to do the real Phoenix Saga, take the kids into space and have the Shi'ar be bird jerks and all that. I'd be all for that.
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Jun 1, 2016 03:40
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I love the Shi'ar so much and I'm reallly excited to see how the gently caress they'll make their feather hair work on screen. They'd better at least try. 
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Jun 1, 2016 03:59
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Honestly, I dunno if they're gonna want to go hog wild with the Shi'ar right in the next film. I think it might be more likely, if they're doing a Mr. Sinister plotline, for them to keep it a bit more Earth-based and somehow introduce Cable, especially if they wanna do a Cable & Deadpool film at some point.
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Jun 1, 2016 04:03
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BrianWilly posted:Honestly, I dunno if they're gonna want to go hog wild with the Shi'ar right in the next film. I think it might be more likely, if they're doing a Mr. Sinister plotline, for them to keep it a bit more Earth-based and somehow introduce Cable, especially if they wanna do a Cable & Deadpool film at some point. You don't have to spoiler talking about Cable because everyone knows Deadpool straight up says Cable will appear. I'm sure Deadpool 2 will be Cable and Deadpool vs some other grade z villain and use that to introduce X-force. Actually, Sinester would be a way better Deadpool 2 villan than a future X-men villain. I'd also hope that a New Mutants movie would take the time to introduce some of the newer young mutants, even if they're not on the main team; who wouldn't want to see Quentin Quire, Ede, Glob Herman, Rockslide, Shark Girl or Hellion on screen?
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Jun 1, 2016 04:28
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I guess you could have Cable try to explain his convoluted backstory to an exasperated Deadpool. Or he could just be a guy with a metal arm and pouches.twistedmentat posted:Actually, Sinester would be a way better Deadpool 2 villan than a future X-men villain. This is an excellent idea.
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Jun 1, 2016 04:57
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rkajdi posted:Honestly, to me he's a lot like Claremont in the love/hate regard. Piles of people here will get bag on their worst excesses (staccato dialogue/decompression and wordiness/fetishism respectively) but both these guys undoubtedly remade stagnant franchises (X-Men/Avengers) into something incredibly successful. They also really haven't been followed up consistently on either franchise and both arguably overstayed their welcome on each series. Similar things could be said about the incredible Peter David Hulk run of the 80s and 90s, though for some reason he isn't as remembered as either of these two. The X-men were really good before A v X, the best it had been probably since Morrison. And I'm not sure if stagnation was the problem, then the fix is to mine the late 60s and 70s, a period when the X-men was considered stagnant enough that the comic was on verge of cancellation. Going back to the roots of the Avengers worked because he was mining maybe the best period of the book, not the time before it actually got good. rkajdi posted:I tried doing this before, and just after AoA everything seemed to fall apart. I get the impression there must have been a series I was missing, but the only thing I don't have is Wolverine IIRC, so I'm not even sure where these story beats are happening at. Now here I will agree with you. Post AOA is really bad, you can almost skip all the way up to Morrison, although a lot of the side books were pretty good. I guess the Onslaught arc is worth reading just because it puts a bow on so many things.
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Jun 1, 2016 06:13
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Sinister has been interested in the Summers and Grey bloodlines since his creation/conversion by Apocalypse, which was in The Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix (because of course they had a time travel honeymoon) which also has a really cool-looking Egyptian version of Apocalypse in it. Mr. Sinister written by Kieron Gillen is the best:  
Decius fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 07:10
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Rick posted:The X-men were really good before A v X, the best it had been probably since Morrison. And I'm not sure if stagnation was the problem, then the fix is to mine the late 60s and 70s, a period when the X-men was considered stagnant enough that the comic was on verge of cancellation. Going back to the roots of the Avengers worked because he was mining maybe the best period of the book, not the time before it actually got good. I was talking about how Claremont revived the X-Men from their cancellation scare, same as how Bendis fixed up the Avengers when nobody gave a poo poo about them. I thin the comparison also works because only one follow up to either writer has done anything other than average to below average stuff afterwards-- Hickman on Avengers and Morrison on New X-Men. quote:Now here I will agree with you. Post AOA is really bad, you can almost skip all the way up to Morrison, although a lot of the side books were pretty good. I guess the Onslaught arc is worth reading just because it puts a bow on so many things. Yeah, the side books that were worth reading is more what I'm interested in for this era. Though a decent amount of stuff obviously happened and shouldn't be glossed over, like Genosha turning into a mutant run country for some odd reason, Colossus dying to end the Legacy virus plotline, and Emma Frost being on the good side of the X-Men instead of being a villain as she was earlier. Stuff like how the characters progressed from where they were in the early 90s to the Morrison run seems important to get at, even if you're reading a lot of drek to get there. My other big franchise is Avengers stuff, so I'm more than used to adequate to mediocre storytelling, and I'm willing to lump through it to get to the decent parts.
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Jun 1, 2016 09:49
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Emma joining the team was one of my favorite things. Hopefully one day whomever is telling Marvel to stop making mutants a major thing will either get ousted from their position or change their mind, becuase its really dumb to say "we don't want to promote movies we don't own" when the opposite is true. People will see X-men films and say "i want more X-men" and go read the comics. The thing is, X-men still sell and are super popular, but their marginalization is still happening. They won't get rid of them, because as I said, they still sell, but shoving them off to a corner of the universe is just rear end backwards.
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Jun 1, 2016 18:02
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Eight books with large mutant presence = marganilization and intentionally cutting down on mutants because of MOVIES, herpaderpderp. Twisted, you need to realize that you beating this drum of 'they hate mutants' is tired and played out when they quite obviously don't hate mutants, judging by their own product lines. Even in books using mutants i would never recognize as mutants they go out of heir way to establish 'yes i am a mutant hello', which would certainly not happen if they wanted to erase mutants from existing.
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Jun 1, 2016 18:34
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KittyEmpress posted:Eight books with large mutant presence = marganilization and intentionally cutting down on mutants because of MOVIES, herpaderpderp. I'm talking about them being shoved off to their own titles and Inhumans replacing them as the mcguffin's in storylines, lack of crossovers between X-books and non. Do any of the Avengers teams have any Mutants on them besides Uncanny? They're not trying to kill the line, but they're clearly trying to, for lack of a better term, segregate Mutants into their own books, and trying to focus attention on inhumans. You cannot say that Mutants are no longer as prominent as they were even a few years ago.
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Jun 1, 2016 18:45
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twistedmentat posted:I'm talking about them being shoved off to their own titles and Inhumans replacing them as the mcguffin's in storylines, lack of crossovers between X-books and non. Do any of the Avengers teams have any Mutants on them besides Uncanny? Roberto DeCosta runs New Avengers.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:17
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twistedmentat posted:I'm talking about them being shoved off to their own titles and Inhumans replacing them as the mcguffin's in storylines, lack of crossovers between X-books and non. Do any of the Avengers teams have any Mutants on them besides Uncanny? Mutants have always been cordoned off in their own section of the universe doing their own thing. There's no marginalization beyond maybe in merchandising.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:17
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Even in the 90s during peak X-mania, the only X-men story that affected any other books significantly was Onslaught.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:19
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Lurdiak posted:Even in the 90s during peak X-mania, the only X-men story that affected any other books significantly was Onslaught.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:31
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If you tried really hard you could make a case for Galactic Storm but despite the crazy marketing that got it had all the lasting impact of AXIS/SIXIS.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:46
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I mean the main complaint about the X-Men books for as long as I can remember was that they were off on their own little universe.
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Jun 1, 2016 20:03
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I can't imagine how the Marvel Universe's ability to tell coherent stories in an interconnected universe would survive contact with the bullshit the x-men deal with.
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Jun 1, 2016 20:12
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rkajdi posted:I was talking about how Claremont revived the X-Men from their cancellation scare, same as how Bendis fixed up the Avengers when nobody gave a poo poo about them. I thin the comparison also works because only one follow up to either writer has done anything other than average to below average stuff afterwards-- Hickman on Avengers and Morrison on New X-Men. It is important, I guess, but so much of that was ignored by Morrison that I think unless you're a completionist it's missable. Maybe I need a re-read. Lurdiak posted:If you tried really hard you could make a case for Galactic Storm but despite the crazy marketing that got it had all the lasting impact of AXIS/SIXIS. It is funny because I do think about that storyline from time to time, but mainly because they just go so drat far. Tony Stark hitting a button to genocide a billion creatures should be a big deal but I get why it's not.
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Jun 1, 2016 20:20
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Yeah as long as you know the few lasting important beats from the 90s (Colossus is dead, Magneto runs Genosha as a mutant nation...that's about all) you can safely skip right to Morrison.
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Jun 1, 2016 20:44
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Uncanny Avengers has a team that is comprised of Avengers, Mutants, and Inhumans. Like, the whole point of the book is to be a mix up of all the different types of heroes.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:03
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Lurdiak posted:I can't imagine how the Marvel Universe's ability to tell coherent stories in an interconnected universe would survive contact with the bullshit the x-men deal with. The are already incoherent. Just do what they do now, pretend it makes sense.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:24
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twistedmentat posted:I'm talking about them being shoved off to their own titles and Inhumans replacing them as the mcguffin's in storylines, lack of crossovers between X-books and non. Do any of the Avengers teams have any Mutants on them besides Uncanny? To me, the bigger problem for the X-Men line than, "How come they aren't crossing over with everyone else?" is this constant endangered species status quo that's been poo poo. Part of the fun of the old X-Men titles before M-day were all the variables that would get thrown the team's way, but it really seems that's been tapered down in the name of "making things less messy," but in the process just keeps the books dealing with the same villains and same situations over and over. Also, on bad post-AoA poo poo, Eve of Destruction is what made me really get into reading X-Men comics, ha ha.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:34
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Marvel's current push to make Captain Marvel a thing and putting her everywhere is already incoherent.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:37
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Aphrodite posted:Marvel's current push to make Captain Marvel a thing and putting her everywhere is already incoherent. It was a pretty cool idea at first but yeah I'm about ready for them to just dust Carol back under the rug and focus on the female superheroes people actually like instead.
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Jun 1, 2016 22:04
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Aphrodite posted:Marvel's current push to make Captain Marvel a thing and putting her everywhere is already incoherent. She's pretty consistently the weakest link on any team she's on, and even when I'm reading her solo she doesn't really stand out next to Alpha Flight or Abigail Brand.
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