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Scaramouche posted:I kind of want him to stay on because resigning for addiction reasons probably means he's shown more introspection than most politicians are capable of. Best post of this thread
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Jun 1, 2016 02:59
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It makes me think that Trudeau let his caucus know that it's better to seek treatment early without consequences than let it fester - which if that's the case is actually a good thing he did. O'Reagan is back in commons already right? Edit: Might be worse: https://twitter.com/LoopEmma/status/737832659846606848 Geoid fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 03:10
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Or he did something that hasn't come out yet.
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Jun 1, 2016 03:27
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Helsing posted:Sure, but these aren't mutually exclusive positions. I would assume that Trudeau picked somebody he felt he could trust to handle an important diplomatic appointment, but Liberals (and, for sure, Canadian politicians in general) also use their positions in government to enrich themselves. Now you're just letting your own prejudices colour your judgement. This is not the ambassadorship of Hungary being given to a particularly prolific fundraiser, this is the appointment of an ambassador to our biggest trading partner and closest ally. If he wanted to enrich him he could have given him a much less visible position for people like you to get upset about.
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Jun 1, 2016 03:29
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Drinking yourself into an early grave is a tradition in keeping with our noble founding fathers 
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Jun 1, 2016 03:58
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Panas posted:Now you're just letting your own prejudices colour your judgement. This is not the ambassadorship of Hungary being given to a particularly prolific fundraiser, this is the appointment of an ambassador to our biggest trading partner and closest ally. If he wanted to enrich him he could have given him a much less visible position for people like you to get upset about. I'm not suggesting Liberals robotically try to squeeze the most cash possible from the government for the minimum amount of effort. I'm saying that the culture of the Liberal party is such that its politicians and upper level employees switch fluidly back and forth between high level government and private sector positions, and leverage their relationships with the Liberal party and with their fellow Liberals to get ahead. This doesn't mean they don't also value public service, as they see it. Humans are complicated. But you'd have to be really naive to not think that these kinds of insdier deals and payoffs and rewards for being a good soldier aren't the default way that politics gets done in Canada or around the world. Also you're leaning on the association of "prejudice" with nasty tendencies like homophobia and racism to make your argument sound more powerful than it actually is. Prejudice comes in many forms ,some justifiable and some not. Literally every human uses prejudice as a heuristic to make judgement in situations where they don't have full information.In some cases that use of prejudice is obviously bad, such as judging someone based on skin colour or gender. But strictly speaking your preference for nice friendly people rather than rude assholes is also a form of "prejudice". And it's the nature of politics, especially in the federal government, that we'll almost never have the full information available to make a fair judgement. We're thus forced to fall back on what we do know each party, it's past actions, and it's internal culture. The far more insane position would be to not have a default prejudice against politicians from all three parties. Obviously one evaluates the facts as best one can and tries to seek out the lesser evil, but in the absence of a truly transparent government or a nearly omnipotent level of knowledge you're inevitably going to fall back on certain heuristics about politics and governance.
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Jun 1, 2016 04:01
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This whole discussion was begun on the merit of political appointments for diplomatic missions to important allies. Political appointments are valued because they have a relationship with the leader of the country that they are representing. The fact that he has a personal relationship with the person currently running Canada means he brings far more to the position than some career diplomat who doesn't have a direct line to Trudeau, and even if he did he wouldn't be trusted to anywhere near the same extent. You don't put someone you know nothing about in charge of your most important embassy. As for your insinuation that the liberal party is solely the party of careerists bent on personal enrichment, well you can argue that with someone else.
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Jun 1, 2016 05:02
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Scaramouche posted:I kind of want him to stay on because resigning for addiction reasons probably means he's shown more introspection than most politicians are capable of. Speaking of caucus suspensions, that Wildrose guy from Alberta who got suspended on Friday? He's already back. Edmonton Journal posted:Derek Fildebrandt’s timeout from the Wildrose caucus didn’t last long.
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Jun 1, 2016 05:07
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Panas posted:This whole discussion was begun on the merit of political appointments for diplomatic missions to important allies. Political appointments are valued because they have a relationship with the leader of the country that they are representing. The fact that he has a personal relationship with the person currently running Canada means he brings far more to the position than some career diplomat who doesn't have a direct line to Trudeau, and even if he did he wouldn't be trusted to anywhere near the same extent. You don't put someone you know nothing about in charge of your most important embassy. Well gently caress we should've just got Sophie to do it.
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Jun 1, 2016 05:13
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Panas posted:This whole discussion was begun on the merit of political appointments for diplomatic missions to important allies. Political appointments are valued because they have a relationship with the leader of the country that they are representing. The fact that he has a personal relationship with the person currently running Canada means he brings far more to the position than some career diplomat who doesn't have a direct line to Trudeau, and even if he did he wouldn't be trusted to anywhere near the same extent. You don't put someone you know nothing about in charge of your most important embassy. You're just stubbornly ignoring the fact that rewarding loyal insiders or Liberals treating the government as an opportunity to line their pockets aren't actually incompatible with what you're saying. It's possible to justify his appointment on exactly the terms that you outline while still holding open the possibility that part of what informed Trudeau's choice was the need to give kushy gigs to party insiders. That's just how politics works. The imperative of the governing party to maintain loyalty and the need to deliver effective governance mingle into one another in the eyes of people who have spent long enough around the halls of power. quote:As for your insinuation that the liberal party is solely the party of careerists bent on personal enrichment, well you can argue that with someone else. Helsing posted:I'm not suggesting Liberals robotically try to squeeze the most cash possible from the government for the minimum amount of effort. I'm saying that the culture of the Liberal party is such that its politicians and upper level employees switch fluidly back and forth between high level government and private sector positions, and leverage their relationships with the Liberal party and with their fellow Liberals to get ahead. This doesn't mean they don't also value public service, as they see it. Humans are complicated. But you'd have to be really naive to not think that these kinds of insdier deals and payoffs and rewards for being a good soldier aren't the default way that politics gets done in Canada or around the world.
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Jun 1, 2016 05:17
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I think you're off saying it's the culture of the Liberal party. It's not. It's the culture of politics. Every party does it, and they're all just as bad as each other.Panas posted:This whole discussion was begun on the merit of political appointments for diplomatic missions to important allies. Political appointments are valued because they have a relationship with the leader of the country that they are representing. The fact that he has a personal relationship with the person currently running Canada means he brings far more to the position than some career diplomat who doesn't have a direct line to Trudeau, and even if he did he wouldn't be trusted to anywhere near the same extent. You don't put someone you know nothing about in charge of your most important embassy. Also lol Yes, the most important quality of my diplomats is that I am friends with them. Why, if I didn't go to high school with a man, how will I know that I can trust him? Extensive credentials and experience? Pfft. What's important is that I can have a beer with him. Putting unqualified people in power because you need to make political hay is terrible even if everyone does it. That "career diplomat" is actually competent and qualified, and rather than put someone in charge because they "have a line", the intelligent thing to do is to "make a line" to the person who knows what they're doing. Jordan7hm fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 06:12
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Albino Squirrel posted:Why is everyone assuming that Tootoo is gone for good? He'll go to rehab for a month or so, and probably be back in caucus for the next sitting of Parliament (though maybe not in cabinet for a bit more). A homophobic rear end in a top hat in Strathmore? Big loving surprise. I grew up there, it was as redneck as you can get. The school smelled like manure from all the farmkids showing up in the same clothes they wore to do their farm chores.
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Jun 1, 2016 09:52
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On the slightest chance does anybody know what came out of this back in 1983? http://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/02/24/Richard-Cashin-president-of-Newfoundland-Fishermen-Food-and-Allied/3159414910800/ quote:ST. JOHN'S -- Richard Cashin, president of Newfoundland Fishermen, Food and Allied Workers Union, said Thursday he will urge Ottawa next week to buy out the deepsea trawler fleet and nationalize the industry. And is there any political groups trying to socializing any primary industries? What sort of successes and failures that have resulted from previous or current attempts. I can't seem to find any modern information on the subject. It almost feels as if capitalism has won 
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Jun 1, 2016 11:59
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pretty sure what happened is the cod fishery collapsed
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Jun 1, 2016 12:01
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Albino Squirrel posted:Why is everyone assuming that Tootoo is gone for good? He'll go to rehab for a month or so, and probably be back in caucus for the next sitting of Parliament (though maybe not in cabinet for a bit more). I'll bet you 10 bux he won't be in caucus in the fall. Justin when Seamus took a break: quote:My thoughts are with my friend & colleague @SeamusORegan tonight, and he has my full support. Justin when Tootoo took a break: quote:Effective immediately, the Honourable Hunter Tootoo has resigned from his position as Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard.
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Jun 1, 2016 13:38
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Helsing posted:You're just stubbornly ignoring the fact that rewarding loyal insiders or Liberals treating the government as an opportunity to line their pockets aren't actually incompatible with what you're saying. It's possible to justify his appointment on exactly the terms that you outline while still holding open the possibility that part of what informed Trudeau's choice was the need to give kushy gigs to party insiders. That's just how politics works. The imperative of the governing party to maintain loyalty and the need to deliver effective governance mingle into one another in the eyes of people who have spent long enough around the halls of power. Even if he were the most qualified diplomat in the history of foreign affairs, that doesn't rule out him wanting to use his position for personal gain. Capability and purity of motivation are separate axes.
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Jun 1, 2016 13:45
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Albino Squirrel posted:
Wildrose is a joke, and Derek Fildebrandt is one of the worst of them. I used to have to watch session as part of my job, and while pretty much ALL of the Albertan MLAs acted like feral kindergartners, he was a special kind of awful.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:04
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Lien posted:Wildrose is a joke, and Derek Fildebrandt is one of the worst of them. I used to have to watch session as part of my job, and while pretty much ALL of the Albertan MLAs acted like feral kindergartners, he was a special kind of awful. Also worth noting: after Danielle Smith's ill-timed defection to the PCs, only the loudest and dumbest people remained in the Wildrose party. It's getting worse, not better!
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Jun 1, 2016 15:07
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Lien posted:Wildrose is a joke, and Derek Fildebrandt is one of the worst of them. I used to have to watch session as part of my job, and while pretty much ALL of the Albertan MLAs acted like feral kindergartners, he was a special kind of awful.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:10
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oh my god it's going to come out eventually anyways why do you keep me in suspense like this bunnyquote:Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Tootoo left the Liberal caucus to seek treatment for addiction issues after a "difficult situation," in his first public words on the resignation of the fisheries minister last night.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:27
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Picnic Princess posted:A homophobic rear end in a top hat in Strathmore? Big loving surprise. I grew up there, it was as redneck as you can get. The school smelled like manure from all the farmkids showing up in the same clothes they wore to do their farm chores. Fildebrandt, like most Wildrose, lives in Calgary (specifically Crestmont, a HOA McMansion community on the west side of the city) and is parachuted into the riding.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:54
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I don't know how you guys care about anything other than the fact Ottawa wants to change the  NATIONAL ANTHEM http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gender-neutral-national-anthem-1.3609605 quote:The lyrics to O Canada were a hot topic in the House of Commons tonight.
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Jun 1, 2016 17:29
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o canada is a terrible anthem
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Jun 1, 2016 17:31
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DariusLikewise posted:I don't know how you guys care about anything other than the fact Ottawa wants to change the What a tool(e).
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Jun 1, 2016 17:33
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Cultural Imperial posted:o canada is a terrible anthem National anthems are stupid and singing them on purpose is stupid, just let them all be instrumental
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Jun 1, 2016 17:35
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Jun 1, 2016 17:37
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flakeloaf posted:National anthems are stupid and singing them on purpose is stupid, just let them all be instrumental The Soviet/Current Russian national anthem is bomb as gently caress and I'll fight you if you disagree. Best when sung by a giant choir of mostly drunk men.
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Jun 1, 2016 17:37
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We should go back to God Save the Queen to piss off the French.
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Jun 1, 2016 17:44
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You can stop rewatching the hunt for red October Lt cndr dallaire
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Jun 1, 2016 17:45
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I think it's bullshit that women get a free pass on not being commanded to have true patriot love. If I have to have that poo poo so should they.
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Jun 1, 2016 17:51
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All thy sons command? Whoa now. There needs to be a clear chain of command, because there's going to be crossed wires something fierce otherwise.
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Jun 1, 2016 18:01
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Fun fact: the Fort McMurray wildfire has released more GHG emissions than Canada's entire agriculture industry will this year and has released twice as much carbon as passenger cars will release. It's released more than half of what Ontario will release this year. Classic Alberta. (Based on 580,000 hectares burned, 170 tonnes released per hectare and https://www.ec.gc.ca/indicateurs-indicators/default.asp?lang=en&n=F60DB708-1 )
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Jun 1, 2016 18:09
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This debate is even stupider than it looks at first because the original wording from the 19th century didn't include "sons" anyway, and also because the song was last officially revised in 1980, which also happens to be the year that it officially became the anthem. There's no longstanding tradition here to protect.
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Jun 1, 2016 18:10
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Cultural Imperial posted:You can stop rewatching the hunt for red October Lt cndr dallaire This is a wrong opinion. 
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Jun 1, 2016 18:13
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The reasoning behind not changing it in yesteryears is because "polling" showed that 3/4 of Canadians wanted them to remain the same. Of course you'd expect those results from the type of person who actually feel that dedicating a few seconds or a brief moment of their life to being polled about the anthem isn't a hideous scourge of time.
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Jun 1, 2016 18:26
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:All thy sons command? Whoa now. There needs to be a clear chain of command, because there's going to be crossed wires something fierce otherwise. ZShakespeare posted:I think it's bullshit that women get a free pass on not being commanded to have true patriot love. If I have to have that poo poo so should they. Firstly, there is no ambiguity, as it is "Canada" which commands "true patriot love" in "all thy sons", so there is no issue with chain of command, as there is one commander. Secondly, "True patriot love in all thy sons command" does not mean "The country instructs all thy sons to have true patriot love". It means "The country elicits true patriot love in all thy sons". "Command", in this case, is as it is in the example "His demeanor commands respect". So the real question here is what about the female perspective (gendered lens, if you will) prevents Canada from eliciting true patriot love within them?
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Jun 1, 2016 18:55
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e: nah
flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 18:59
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I missed a huge opportunity to use "engender" instead of "elicit". 
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Jun 1, 2016 19:01
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im glad that canada has solved all its problems so we can now focus on arguing about our national anthem, what a time to be alive
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Jun 1, 2016 19:18
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There's no good reason not to change the anthem, so there shouldn't be an argument. The mention of God should probably go away too, to be more inclusive of people of non-Abrahamic faiths.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:42
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