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Drone posted:The Anarcho-Liberals will revolt.
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Jun 1, 2016 15:59
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Ofaloaf posted:If/when/should Victoria III ever become an actual thing, I hope they just relabel anarcho-liberals 'radicals' or some such. It fits the first half of the game better, at least. Alternatively, rebrand everyone else as Statists 
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Jun 1, 2016 16:07
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Alternatively, rebrand everyone else as Statists You mean collectivists.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:34
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I remember someone in a thread in the Pdox forum suggested that an anarcho-liberal "bourgeois dictatorship" is what Galt's Gulch would devolve into irl and all the libertarians threw a shitfit.
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Jun 1, 2016 16:58
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Ofaloaf posted:If/when/should Victoria III ever become an actual thing, I hope they just relabel anarcho-liberals 'radicals' or some such. It fits the first half of the game better, at least. Outside horse-trading, you should probably be able to gain political power from other stuff too, like winning wars, crises, or reducing unemployment. Actually, maybe have the amount gained be dependent on the political party in power. A militarist party successfully waging war should probably get more political power out of that than a pacifist one, since the former would be telling everyone about their glorious victories while the latter wouldn't be big on extolling on the glories of war. Political power could probably also be used for other stuff, like weakening rival parties or crushing dissenters, or maintaining alliances with countries that are otherwise unpopular. Just some ideas. I guess what I'm really trying to say is; I hope the politics system in V3 is tied more directly and strongly into other systems, with it having a greater impact on how a country feels to play, BUT it also not being so much of an ON/OFF switch as it is in V2.
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Jun 1, 2016 17:12
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Pausing the ironicposting for a moment: If it comes to a future Victoria game someday, what I always always rather enjoyed about V2 was the sense of in some ways not quite being entirely in control of the destiny of my nation. Like, there would be factions that you are trying desperately to prevent from getting elected, because you know that once in power they'd roll back all the reforms you so carefully implemented over the session. It gave a credible meaning or stake in things to the player to prevent rebels, for example, from capturing your capitol, because they'd roll back your progress towards Westernization, or reinstall a monarchy, and so on. Or, on the flipside, sometimes you'd want the communists to win, or the fascists to get a majority in the Parliament. The sense of struggling and interacting with your own Pops, and feeling that there's a bit of give-and-take, was one of the really satisfying experiences of V2 and I hope they put that back into a future V3 if there is ever one.
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Jun 1, 2016 17:13
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Yeah, the world in Vicky 2 feels genuinely huge, it's one of the only strategy games I get that out of. Like I'm actually controlling a country rather than just a little gamey abstraction.
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Jun 1, 2016 17:23
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I just thought it was kind of weird that they essentially made up a fictional political movement in the form of anarcho-liberalism, while one of the more visible radical movements of the 19th and early 20th centuries, anarchism, doesn't exist in the game. It makes sense from a gameplay perspective because there's not really any way to meaningfully differentiate anarchist rebels from communist rebels, but it's still a bit odd. During the movement's height, organizations with self-declared anarchist politics had several million members worldwide, exercised serious political influence in several countries, and were considered a major threat to the status quo by many of the major powers, but in Victoria they're just...not there. I still love the game, jank and all, and have played way more of it than I have EUIV, but it's always struck me as a really odd omission.
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Jun 1, 2016 17:25
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is there even a point to the religion stuff in vicky 2 though, it never seemed to do anything at all
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Jun 1, 2016 17:35
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Koramei posted:Yeah, the world in Vicky 2 feels genuinely huge, it's one of the only strategy games I get that out of. Like I'm actually controlling a country rather than just a little gamey abstraction. For that same reason, EU4 has always felt like a slightly hollow experience for me compared to CK2, since I've always felt like I've been playing a little gamey abstraction. Even though I've put quite a few hours into it, the stories that have emerged from it have never been quite as satisfying or interesting as the ones that came from my exciting conquests starting out as a poo poo-tier count in remote Iceland, or fighting back the British and participating in WWI as a united Punjabi India.
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Jun 1, 2016 17:35
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corn in the bible posted:is there even a point to the religion stuff in vicky 2 though, it never seemed to do anything at all No real point but I believe it influences how POPs vote (that is, I think non-state religion POPs will try to avoid the moralism and pluralism parties). Also I think there are some events tied to minority religions, as well as some specific Christianity stuff in Asia.
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Jun 1, 2016 18:15
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corn in the bible posted:is there even a point to the religion stuff in vicky 2 though, it never seemed to do anything at all There's a couple of very minor things, it's a part of the game that feels like it should be either expanded to do more stuff or removed outright, rather than remain as-is.
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Jun 1, 2016 18:45
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Mister Bates posted:I just thought it was kind of weird that they essentially made up a fictional political movement in the form of anarcho-liberalism, while one of the more visible radical movements of the 19th and early 20th centuries, anarchism, doesn't exist in the game. That is not to say however that traditional libertarianism/anarchism shouldn't be more prominent though. Actually, the system I proposed of parties not caring equally about all their positions might be a decent way to include a greater variety of ideologies without having to implement a huge variety of premade positions. If say, their opinion on a policy "slider" could be defined as weak, moderate, strong, and unyielding, then you could use that to create a lot of variety among parties which looking at their policy positions alone would be the same. So like, a socialist party which was moderate to strong on economic issues but weak on military could be seen as social democratic (willing to go along with warmongering for the sake of their own political powers, as seen during WW1), while one that was strongly anti-military /pacifist could be seen as anarchist, despite their policy positions ostensibly being the same.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:02
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^^^ I think they were a thing, just not really a major movement.Mister Bates posted:I just thought it was kind of weird that they essentially made up a fictional political movement in the form of anarcho-liberalism, while one of the more visible radical movements of the 19th and early 20th centuries, anarchism, doesn't exist in the game. IIRC A-Ls were mostly just to have an extremist version of liberals for gameplay while, as you say, anarchists were too close to communists. Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 19:04
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It would probably do them well to just create a system of a dozen or so archetypes for political theory and stick with assigning those to pops to determine how they'll vote. I don't think anyone will be 100% with this kind of system, but it would avoid directly lambasting any one specific group.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:07
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Nitrousoxide posted:Guys, I hate to break it to you but PDS was always about making profit. This.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:49
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pdxjohan posted:This. But Map Video Games are a Fundamental Human Right! Please don't profiteer off basic human needs.
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Jun 1, 2016 20:31
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Darkrenown posted:IIRC A-Ls were mostly just to have an extremist version of liberals for gameplay while, as you say, anarchists were too close to communists.  
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Jun 1, 2016 20:38
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DrSunshine posted:You mean collectivists. pdxjohan posted:This.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:18
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I say just call them libertarians regardless of historical accuracy, then let people go nuts when they take over and inevitably tank your economy.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:19
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Here's a little inspiration for V3, allowing more variety in terms of politics while keeping the symmetry. Feel free to use it. But why do Communists get a bonus to slavery? Also, the Scientific bonus is nearly useless due to how Research Grants work
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Jun 1, 2016 21:22
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Here's a little inspiration for V3, allowing more variety in terms of politics while keeping the symmetry. Feel free to use it. My empire is fanatic hitler mustache communists.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:25
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GrossMurpel posted:My empire is fanatic hitler mustache communists. Is that what it is? I don't recognize all of these symbols, to be honest. Something vs Anarchist, Arrows vs Hitlers Pacifist vs Jingoist?Militarist? Communist vs Capitalist, Science vs Faith?
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Jun 1, 2016 21:31
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Darkrenown posted:^^^ I think they were a thing, just not really a major movement. The English Radicals, French Jacobins and Latin-American liberal revolutionaries were all really keen on economic intervention to destroy monarchy and religion Anarcho-liberals are just time travelling libertarians
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Jun 1, 2016 21:41
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Victoria 2 is near perfection and any attempt at V3 will be inevitably worse in some way or another to V2.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:51
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The V3 thread will be months upon months of people going "no, anarchism is like this", "no, anarchism is like this".
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Jun 1, 2016 21:54
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Funky Valentine posted:The V3 thread will be months upon months of people going "no, anarchism is like this", "no, anarchism is like this". It will be anarchy.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:56
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And it will be great.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:58
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Phi230 posted:Victoria 2 is near perfection and any attempt at V3 will be inevitably worse in some way or another to V2. You're not wrong
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Jun 1, 2016 22:12
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Considering the shitfit that erupted over the word "collectivism" in Stellaris, I can't imagine how awful this thread will be when info on Vicky 3 starts coming out. The mods should probably get a Predator drone over Oberleutnant's house in preparation for a preemptive strike.
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Jun 1, 2016 22:16
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Here's a little inspiration for V3, allowing more variety in terms of politics while keeping the symmetry. Feel free to use it. What do the squares and arrows represent?
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Jun 1, 2016 22:16
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:What do the squares and arrows represent? The arrows were the symbol of a social democratic paramilitary force in Weimar Germany, they opposed both Communists and Fascists (although they later supported Hindenburg against Thaelmann, and Hindenburg appointed Hitler his chancellor, proving Stalin was correct and social democracy is social fascism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Front
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Jun 1, 2016 22:20
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:What do the squares and arrows represent? The three-arrows are presumably social democracy (moderate and extreme social democrats?). In the 1932 Wiemar Republic election the social democrats used this sort of thing: 
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Jun 1, 2016 22:22
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I guess that makes more sense than them being wrought iron fence posts. Wasn't sure why they were opposed to periods. What do the simoleon signs at the top symbolize?
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Jun 1, 2016 22:29
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Enjoy posted:Neverending texture packs for German anti-aircraft gun crews this is equally acceptable
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Jun 1, 2016 22:32
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I guess that makes more sense than them being wrought iron fence posts. Wasn't sure why they were opposed to periods. Statism? Rule of law? Maybe they are section characters from legal documents
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Jun 1, 2016 22:33
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I guess that makes more sense than them being wrought iron fence posts. Wasn't sure why they were opposed to periods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_sign?wprov=sfla1 That's the symbol you see in legal documents so I guess it means bureaucracy or something
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Jun 1, 2016 22:34
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VostokProgram posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_sign?wprov=sfla1 That was my first guess too but it seems kind of obscure. Why not juat go with a gavel or something else law or government related?
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Jun 1, 2016 22:42
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I'm the fascist anarcho-communist that believes in peace and non-violence.
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Jun 1, 2016 22:45
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YF-23 posted:I'm the fascist anarcho-communist that believes in peace and non-violence. Peace through browbeating, brother! Also, insert a joke about social media and modern society here.
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Jun 1, 2016 22:51
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