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These questions of tone always make me wonder why this wasn't noticed far earlier, like at the script stage. It must have been clear what Edwards was aiming for. I'm just wondering if there's more to this that just a test audience not checking the right boxes and texting each other enough smiley emoticons. Be interesting to see in future if 'difficult' directors will be hit with the tone hammer after they've delivered their films. (Snap!) Robot Wendigo fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 01:19
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jivjov posted:In that case directors shouldn't sign up to work on urge franchise works and instead pursue their own projects in which there won't be that much corporate oversight. Nah, there's plenty of directors who do great work with franchise material. Such as, hey, Gareth Edwards.
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Jun 2, 2016 01:20
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jivjov posted:In that case directors shouldn't sign up to work on urge franchise works and instead pursue their own projects in which there won't be that much corporate oversight. or maybe the corporation should let the director they hired do his or her job instead of trying to do it for them?
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Jun 2, 2016 01:20
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Zas posted:directors should pretty much always get final cut, this is basic stuff, don't be a corporate stooge I know this isn't exactly what you are talking about but there are plenty of directors who don't really feel comfortable editing.
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Jun 2, 2016 01:20
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PBS Newshour posted:I know this isn't exactly what you are talking about but there are plenty of directors who don't really feel comfortable editing. obviously, what i'm talking about is a studio going "this might not be maximally profitable, let's gently caress around with it until we think it will be" which is dumb bullshit regardless of the movie's budget or franchise potential or whatever
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Jun 2, 2016 01:22
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poo poo. Episode VII fell flat for me, as did Guardians of the Galaxy. I guess we'll see in December.
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Jun 2, 2016 01:30
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also if your argument is "well this is just the way things are" please understand that's both obvious and not an argument
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Jun 2, 2016 01:30
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Zas posted:obviously, what i'm talking about is a studio going "this might not be maximally profitable, let's gently caress around with it until we think it will be" which is dumb bullshit regardless of the movie's budget or franchise potential or whatever that is why i said i know this isn't what you are talking about
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Jun 2, 2016 01:30
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PBS Newshour posted:that is why i said i know this isn't what you are talking about right i was clarifying my point. if a director wants to delegate more power to them. hell for all I know gareth edwards is totally cool with these reshoots or whatever. but if you're in favor of corporate editing of films you're anti-art, even if we're talking about the disney marvel star wars empire
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Jun 2, 2016 01:32
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Cnut the Great posted:No, I've vigorously and repeatedly argued that a person is free to poo poo all over a work of art as long as they have a legitimate claim to artistic ownership of that work. I don't believe Bob Iger or any of the executives underneath him, representing Disney as a corporation, can legitimately be said to have any genuine artistic interest in much of the work they finance. I believe theirs is primarily, if not completely, a monetary interest--in complete contrast to the situation as it once existed with George Lucas, who no reasonable person can deny was a full and genuine author on all six of the original Star Wars films, with a clear artistic investment. He was not the full and genuine author on all six films. He was full and genuine author on three and a half films. On the others he had other writers, other directors, adversarial editors, improvising actors. You'll notice that those three and a half films where he was full and genuine author are considered the worst ones. Again: George Lucas, billionaire toymonger, is quite possibly the last director you'd want to stand behind as a man totally about the artistic interest and not about the monetary interest. By the way, when's he going to get around to directing those small, experimental films he's been claiming since the motherfucking Carter administration that he really wants to do and his real passion ? He's on the wrong side of 70, probably should get on that pretty soon. Maybe he can make more critical and box office smashes like Radioland Murders, Strange Magic and Howard the Duck. quote:Why don't you think it's true? By your reckoning, were all the Lucasfilm and Fox marketing executives idiots too? Is it your contention that George Lucas is just completely making poo poo up out of whole cloth again as yet another part of the sinister Lucasian conspiracy? Why do you think so in this case, when it's such a plausible scenario? I don't think it's true first because you have provided no evidence that it is true and a quick Googling turned up nothing. I also think that Lucasfilm and Fox execs were probably fine with the idea of a little kid and did not expect the dialog, characterization and actor of said kid to be so terrible, especially from a man to that point was the golden goose
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Jun 2, 2016 01:32
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Zas posted:right i was clarifying my point. if a director wants to delegate more power to them. hell for all I know gareth edwards is totally cool with these reshoots or whatever. i know that, please stop yelling at me 
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Jun 2, 2016 01:36
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Zas posted:or maybe the corporation should let the director they hired do his or her job instead of trying to do it for them? And what if that job is "direct a movie meeting our specific guidelines of tone"?
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Jun 2, 2016 01:37
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PBS Newshour posted:i know that, please stop yelling at me shut the gently caress up pbs newshour just JESUS CHRIST
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Jun 2, 2016 01:39
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what will you do when they probate you what will you do if they ban you if you continue to post what will you become
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Jun 2, 2016 01:39
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jivjov posted:And what if that job is "direct a movie meeting our specific guidelines of tone"? They should lighten up.
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Jun 2, 2016 01:40
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jivjov posted:And what if that job is "direct a movie meeting our specific guidelines of tone"? that's like doublespeak. "yes you are the 'director' haha, but we are in control of this amorphous thing called 'guidelines of tone,' which can mean whatever the gently caress we want it to mean. have fun!" like I'm sure he agreed to it, because disney has all the leverage, but that doesn't make it right, or an intelligent way to produce good movies.
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Jun 2, 2016 01:44
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Zas posted:shut the gently caress up pbs newshour just JESUS CHRIST sorry 
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Jun 2, 2016 01:45
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PBS Newshour posted:sorry it's ok, just try to adhere more to my guidelines of tone in the future
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Jun 2, 2016 01:46
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Generally speaking you get more interesting movies when filmmakers have autonomy than when the studio micromanages things. Sure sometimes you get disasters, but they tend to be interesting disasters.
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Jun 2, 2016 01:48
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Zas posted:that's like doublespeak. "yes you are the 'director' haha, but we are in control of this amorphous thing called 'guidelines of tone,' which can mean whatever the gently caress we want it to mean. have fun!" also I understand this is basically how TV works, but I'm against importing that aspect of TV into film, especially w/o a guiding voice as a producer who is an actual human being, like a showrunner or an equivalent producer like Lucas was for Ep V and VI
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Jun 2, 2016 01:49
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Hearry posted:By the way, when's he going to get around to directing those small, experimental films he's been claiming since the motherfucking Carter administration that he really wants to do and his real passion ? Maybe not exactly what you're talking about, but Lucas did finance a Kurosawa film, Kagemusha, during a time in Kurosawa's career when he couldn't get a decent budget together in his home country.
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Jun 2, 2016 01:52
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Yaws posted:I''m genuinely curious if you two know anyone outside of this thread that unironically enjoys the PT. I'm sure you're going to lie and be all like "ACTUALLY I KNOW SEVERAL PEOPLE AND ONE IS A NEUROSURGEON!" not that you give a poo poo at all but yeah i do - non nerd people who haven't got a clue that they're not "supposed" to hate the prequels - literal children (none of whom are neurosurgeons but i dunno)
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Jun 2, 2016 02:26
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Yaws posted:I''m genuinely curious if you two know anyone outside of this thread that unironically enjoys the PT. I'm sure you're going to lie and be all like "ACTUALLY I KNOW SEVERAL PEOPLE AND ONE IS A NEUROSURGEON!" I was 9 when I saw the phantom menace, I still like that movie as much as any Star Wars, but I wouldn't consider myself a big fan in general. a lot of people I grew up with are in the same boat.
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Jun 2, 2016 02:29
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jivjov posted:In that case directors shouldn't sign up to work on urge franchise works and instead pursue their own projects in which there won't be that much corporate oversight. Those don't get funded.
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Jun 2, 2016 03:07
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computer parts posted:Oh no, not 11 years. That's the average lifespan of a human being. You have to live in an insane bubble of confirmation bias if you think the star wars prequels are being reevaluated as better films and/or will be redeemed by history. Each prequel was initially greeted with great fanfare and a generally favorable critical response and almost reflexive fanboy apologetics. Months and years after their initial release the mood shifted, even in the middle of their releases. People agreed that, say, The Phantom Menace was bad, but Clones would lose Jar Jar, and later that Sith would be better because it was darker. After more time passed, deeper analysis revealed that these were just the most obvious flaws and the films were bad in nearly innumerable ways. Their existence moving forward appears to be being treated as vaguely distasteful trivia. Time is against them as the effects look worse and worse with every passing year and if Disney pulls this off in the long term it's not going to look good when any nerd with a film school degree can make a competent Star Wars movie
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Jun 2, 2016 03:09
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Tezzor why are you so upset.
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Jun 2, 2016 03:10
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PBS Newshour posted:I know this isn't exactly what you are talking about but there are plenty of directors who don't really feel comfortable editing. you know that final cut doesn't mean the directors do the editing themselves, right
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Jun 2, 2016 03:13
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There's a lot of sky is falling about the Rogue One reshoots but it will probably be fine. As mentioned before I doubt most of us would notice if we didn't know, other than bad wigs, but now if people don't like it they can automatically point a finger at Disney's heavy hand. Oh well, based on the first scene of Star Wars, there will be no one to stop us them that time, and in Rogue One, there will be someone to stop them this time. May as well have jokes. I probably should have mentioned this when the thread was dead two weeks ago instead of now in Rogue One chat, but I was recently thinking about how Adam Driver gets to kill Max von Sydow and Harrison Ford in his first major film role. That's pretty cool.
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Jun 2, 2016 03:20
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Zas posted:I was 9 when I saw the phantom menace, I still like that movie as much as any Star Wars, but I wouldn't consider myself a big fan in general. a lot of people I grew up with are in the same boat. Same about the age. I was entertained by TPM about as much as I was entertained by ESB. Which is to say it's kinda cool but it dragged in a few places. Not really ~best of all time~ (for ESB) or whatever.
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Jun 2, 2016 03:38
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Basebf555 posted:Maybe not exactly what you're talking about, but Lucas did finance a Kurosawa film, Kagemusha, during a time in Kurosawa's career when he couldn't get a decent budget together in his home country. Holy poo poo what!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzR87VBlaoo There it is, Francis Ford Coppola and George Lucas presents, right at the start. I always thought it was just distribution in the west. Like, holy poo poo, Kagemusha is one of my favorite movies of all time, thank you based Lucas.
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Jun 2, 2016 03:59
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Maybe it straight up tested poo poo and the "tone" thing is the best cover story they could bother with. It's not as fun to debate for pages upon pages but I'm sure it's still worth at least one revisit over the merits of the prequels.
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Jun 2, 2016 08:55
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Yaws posted:I''m genuinely curious if you two know anyone outside of this thread that unironically enjoys the PT. I'm sure you're going to lie and be all like "ACTUALLY I KNOW SEVERAL PEOPLE AND ONE IS A NEUROSURGEON!" What? Dude, you are living in a small social circle if u think it'd difficult to find ppl who like those movies.
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Jun 2, 2016 09:25
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Well my excitement for this move went from excited to completely tepid. It'll be real interesting to see what the next trailer is like and whether there are any immediate differences.
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Jun 2, 2016 09:40
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Yaws posted:I''m genuinely curious if you two know anyone outside of this thread that unironically enjoys the PT. I'm sure you're going to lie and be all like "ACTUALLY I KNOW SEVERAL PEOPLE AND ONE IS A NEUROSURGEON!" If you know that the prequel hate is absolutely universal and unquestioned, why do you need to convince anyone of it at all? I don't particularly like them as entertainment, but their ability to anger nerds for years and years means that there is something worthwhile to them. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 09:44
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Hearry posted:By the way, when's he going to get around to directing those small, experimental films he's been claiming since the motherfucking Carter administration that he really wants to do and his real passion ? On the TFA red carpet he said they're only for himself and his friends: https://youtu.be/SLchMvH-SH4?t=77
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Jun 2, 2016 10:25
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Kaiba posted:On the TFA red carpet he said they're only for himself and his friends: Seems convenient, like when a dad writes poems about his dog and 9/11
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Jun 2, 2016 13:41
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:If you know that the prequel hate is absolutely universal and unquestioned, why do you need to convince anyone of it at all? The people on the internet writing extended defenses of bad sci fi movies as secret works of genius subversion are extremely cool and buff, and in no way these hated nerds we hear so much about
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Jun 2, 2016 13:45
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quote:The truth is, no one's going to care about The Force Awakens in fifty years (unless the sequels manage to somehow retroactively improve it to a miraculous degree), while the originals and prequels are going to continue to merit increasing public and scholarly interest (as far as such things go). You are way more optimistic about Something Awful's survival into 2066 than I am.
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Jun 2, 2016 14:17
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Hearry posted:Seems convenient, like when a dad writes poems about his dog and 9/11 U registered another account so u could meltdown about Star Wars
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Jun 2, 2016 14:19
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Hearry posted:The people on the internet writing extended defenses of bad sci fi movies as secret works of genius subversion are extremely cool and buff, and in no way these hated nerds we hear so much about U registered another account so u could meltdown about Star Wars
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Jun 2, 2016 14:25
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