|
Chuck Boone posted:Here's a live stream to the OAS meeting on Venezuela happening right now. It's in Spanish, but you might be able to find an English stream if you click around on the site. I understand why nicaragua(leftist dying birds flock together) but how does ALBA have any power anymore anyway. yeah cheap oil i guess.
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 20:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 06:57 |
|
|
http://original.livestream.com/oasenglish It's in English too
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
They said they were talking a half hour break over an hour ago and still haven't come back.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
Xandu posted:They said they were talking a half hour break over an hour ago and still haven't come back. From what the Venezuelan I dated who worked there said, nothing ever happens on time there and the South American countries are routinely hours late to everything. So if nothing gets done, people don't show, or poo poo is horribly late, that's business as usual there! She even complained about (both at the OAS and the UN) the non Latin American countries that showed up on time would go on without them, and how horrible that was and how being hours late to things is OK. Though I guess, only "the empire" and it's allies show up on time! MysteriousStranger fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jun 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 22:11
|
|
|
icantfindaname posted:Venezuela's not really socialist they just have a hosed up system of price controls and currency exchange. Chavez did dabble in nationalization and promoting workers communes and things like htat but in my understanding that was more of a side project than the central aim of his politics Yeah, it that sense, I would say an old Soviet-style command economy would be superior, at least the Soviets could produce most of their own goods rather than only use oil to buy them abroad. Nationalization in Venezuela was always haphazard and situational, and for the most part seemed to be about looting stock than creating any type of sustainable state industries. I see the PSUV more or less as populists who use all type of "left" sound rhetoric and speeches about imperialism to cover up the fact they have absolutely no idea what they are doing and their economic policy is rather unique in its lack of care or planning. Onerous price controls coupled with a currency peg are bad enough, but when coupled with a consumer industry nearly completely dependent on imports and funded with a volatile commodity like oil, the results are impressive. I would say the most leftist thing about the Venezuelan economy are its price controls, but they are in themselves a relic of the past that are rarely supporter[because they don't work in the long-term]. The PSUV is very much its own special thing and if anything I think are an example of a form of populism fills the void when a more traditional [or competent] left dies out or gets pushed out. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jun 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 22:15
|
|
|
Silly Venezuelans, staple goods aren't expensive because you can just exchange your dollars for bolivars! http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Do-Eggs-in-Venezuela-Actually-Cost-150-a-Dozen-20160531-0039.html
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 22:20
|
|
|
MothraAttack posted:Silly Venezuelans, staple goods aren't expensive because you can just exchange your dollars for bolivars! Only $3 for a dozen eggs. That's a lot more accurate than $150, but this website conveniently left out that the minimum wage (made by a huge proportion, if not majority of, the population) makes $1/day (15k Bs/month, right?) for their job at that same exchange rate. I don't know how anyone can write that kind of tripe with a straight face. Saladman fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jun 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 22:32
|
|
|
Are the writers for telesur all or mostly Venezuelan? I know a tankie American who worked for Cuban media for a while, wonder how common that is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 22:35
|
|
|
Saladman posted:Only $3 for a dozen eggs. That's a lot more accurate than $150, but this website conveniently left out that the minimum wage (made by a huge proportion, if not majority of, the population) makes $1/day (15k Bs/month, right?) for their job at that same exchange rate. They make less than $1 a day, closer to 75 cents, if you're working minimum wage. Also, the problem is finding these eggs, not having the money to buy them. Those who have the money can't access these products either because supply is regulated.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 22:38
|
|
|
Saladman posted:I don't know how anyone can write that kind of tripe with a straight face. It's baffling. At this point any Venezuelan using those arguments (and I mean, supporting the PSUV in general, but specially using those fake-rear end arguments about prices being reasonable) is a total waste of humanity since he's deluding himself and others into defending something that's unforgivable. Like how can you say poo poo like that when you have to go trough a loving epic quest to get milk? My friends started talking today about clothes because none of them have bought any in two years. This was all sparked because one of them ripped his last pair of jeans and was asking for a hand-me-down.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 22:41
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:Are the writers for telesur all or mostly Venezuelan? I know a tankie American who worked for Cuban media for a while, wonder how common that is. They hire a lot of Westerners and base them in Quito on a local upper middle-class salary.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 22:44
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:Are the writers for telesur all or mostly Venezuelan? I know a tankie American who worked for Cuban media for a while, wonder how common that is. I had a twitter fight with a TeleSur writer a week or two ago. The dude lives in Canada. Edit: I should also say it was obvious from his Twitter profile that he was not Venezuelan. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jun 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 22:50
|
|
|
It's Borneo Jimmys all the way down.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 23:34
|
|
|
MothraAttack posted:They hire a lot of Westerners and base them in Quito on a local upper middle-class salary. Venezuela is in the West 
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 23:35
|
|
|
Hugoon Chavez posted:It's baffling. At this point any Venezuelan using those arguments (and I mean, supporting the PSUV in general, but specially using those fake-rear end arguments about prices being reasonable) is a total waste of humanity since he's deluding himself and others into defending something that's unforgivable. Yeah I haven't bought clothes in almost two years as well, I did buy a pair of sneakers last weekend because I need them to work out and the cheapest ones I could find that fit me were Bs. 24000, and that was quite the bargain and I was surprised they were so "cheap".
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 23:42
|
|
|
Traveller posted:Venezuela is in the West A lot of Westerners don't include socialist command style governments as "the west", at best they are shittier East Germans, hence the East.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 00:09
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:Yes but there was a small middle class kept around to facilitate the Americans making shitloads of money from totally-not-slavery, so that makes it ok! Thanks for dropping in for random pro-communist Cuba trolling the past few pages, but I've noticed you've gotten real quiet on Venezuela. You assured us last year that Venzuela was headed in the right direction and going to be fine. What's the latest thinking?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:It's Borneo Jimmys all the way down. In an unexpected twist, Borneo Jimmy not only is lying about his nationality, but is actually the only Venezuelan national in the thread.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 00:27
|
|
|
MysteriousStranger posted:From what the Venezuelan I dated who worked there said, nothing ever happens on time there and the South American countries are routinely hours late to everything. So if nothing gets done, people don't show, or poo poo is horribly late, that's business as usual there! Why do you think we're a global power while latin american economies are making GBS threads a bric? We show up on time. That's the loving secret to success.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 00:30
|
|
|
Maduro just gave a speech to the country's young people outside of the Miraflores Palace. He said this:quote:It's time for you to go out and defend the truth about Venezuela, and the right which the youth have to have Venezuela be respected (...) the homeland cannot be sold out; it must be defended. And then he did this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H4T9U7Z9FI
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 00:36
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:making GBS threads a bric? 
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 00:38
|
|
|
I've said it before but what we have here in Venezuela is an utter disregard for the law, not just Maduro but everyone, it's a social problem, as long as people keep having the same attitude and just doing whatever the gently caress they want we will never become a stable country.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 00:38
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:Maduro just gave a speech to the country's young people outside of the Miraflores Palace. He said this: wow, is he gonna go full cultural revolution now. I mean mao did it for the same reasons, but would he even get enough youth to act on it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 00:42
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:Yes but there was a small middle class kept around to facilitate the Americans making shitloads of money from totally-not-slavery, so that makes it ok! Tell me about Grover fyrr and the wonders of Stalin
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 01:01
|
|
|
Arkane posted:Thanks for dropping in for random pro-communist Cuba trolling the past few pages, but I've noticed you've gotten real quiet on Venezuela. You assured us last year that Venzuela was headed in the right direction and going to be fine. What's the latest thinking? 
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 01:18
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:And then he did this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H4T9U7Z9FI Nice rainbow flag.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:wow, is he gonna go full cultural revolution now. I mean mao did it for the same reasons, but would he even get enough youth to act on it? Dapper_Swindler posted:wow, is he gonna go full cultural revolution now. I mean mao did it for the same reasons, but would he even get enough youth to act on it? Maybe the entire PSUV has syphillis?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 01:54
|
|
|
Polar (the country's largest private company and food producer) managed to secure a $35 million loan from BBVA. Polar put its shared in what looks to be an investment bank out of Curacao as collateral for the loan. The reason why Polar took out the loan is that the national government appears to be purposely starving the company into bankruptcy by refusing to accept its requests to exchange for US dollars. Polar was forced to shut down its breweries in the country last month because it didn't have dollars with which to import ingredients for production. Meanwhile, other breweries in the country have not had problems getting dollars from the government. Now watch Maduro sue the head of Polar for treason because he usurped the government's power by going to an international institution for money. Dapper_Swindler posted:I mean mao did it for the same reasons, but would he even get enough youth to act on it? If Maduro were to go on TV right now and tell people to start drinking the Kool-Aid because the Yankees were coming, I'm very sure that the number of people who would walk out of their homes and head for the hills to prepare for the guerrilla campaign would be minuscule. The thing to remember whenever you watch a video of Maduro talking in front of adoring crowds is that it's common knowledge in Venezuela that the PSUV strong-arms people into attending rallies. I know this is anecdotal, but here it is: I know three people who have/are currently working in the public sector, and they're forced to attend rallies by their bosses from time to time. One of them works in a role that is very close to the government, and he has no choice but to go to whatever rally his office sends him to. He's had to sign in upon arrival at the rallies to verify his attendance. If he ever refused to go, he'd be fired. The two other people I know are public workers but a little bit "further away" from the government (think US Forest Service or some other distant government department), and they've told me that they've had bosses that were more relaxed about it than others, but they have always felt pressured to attend political rallies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 02:19
|
|
|
For those wondering what happened today with the OAS, Argentina reversed it's position about Venezuela at the very last minute, something that was one of the campaign promises of Mauricio Macri. In the end what was approved was a much lighter version of Luis Almagro's proposal (That was even approved by Venezuela's delegate itself...Only Paraguay was against it, that's how much they loving hate Maduro), which means that it is still not definite that the Democratic Charter will be summoned for Venezuela, but at this point it seems unlikely the negotiations will go any further than a mere slap on the wrist. The reasons for Argentina's "desertion" are still unknown, some stupider sources claim that the representative from Argentina wanted a UN position, some more reasonable ones claim that it's due to the amount of debt Venezuela has with Argentinian companies, and Macri didn't want Venezuela to default on them, which makes a ton of sense considering that's how Macri would think, being a businessman. Without significant international pressure, the recall referendum is unlikely to happen in 2016.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:19
|
|
|
If they don't apply the democratic charter and on top of that Trump wins the election then my faith in humankind will be completely lost.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:25
|
|
|
El Hefe posted:If they don't apply the democratic charter and on top of that Trump wins the election then my faith in humankind will be completely lost. I have bad news.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:38
|
|
|
El Hefe posted:If they don't apply the democratic charter and on top of that Trump wins the election then my faith in humankind will be completely lost. What does "applying the democratic charter" actually mean in terms of consequences to Venezuela?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:40
|
|
|
fishmech posted:What does "applying the democratic charter" actually mean in terms of consequences to Venezuela? It means that the OAS would formally recognize that there has been an "unconstitutional break from the democratic order" in Venezuela (read: a dictatorship), and could result in Venezuela's suspension from the OAS. It would be the loudest, most important denunciation of the Maduro government to date. It would essentially cement the recognition that Maduro is a dictator before the world.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:44
|
|
|
I skipped ahead 600 posts, what's the democratic charter?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:47
|
|
|
fnox posted:For those wondering what happened today with the OAS, Argentina reversed it's position about Venezuela at the very last minute, something that was one of the campaign promises of Mauricio Macri. In the end what was approved was a much lighter version of Luis Almagro's proposal (That was even approved by Venezuela's delegate itself...Only Paraguay was against it, that's how much they loving hate Maduro), which means that it is still not definite that the Democratic Charter will be summoned for Venezuela, but at this point it seems unlikely the negotiations will go any further than a mere slap on the wrist. How loving dumb do you have to be to think Venezuela is going to pay off any of their current debt at all? Especially as president of a country that went bankrupt multiple times despite being leaps and bounds less hosed up than Venezuela
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:49
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:It means that the OAS would formally recognize that there has been an "unconstitutional break from the democratic order" in Venezuela (read: a dictatorship), and could result in Venezuela's suspension from the OAS. So if they get suspended from the OAS, what things can they lose out on? Does it affect eligibility for tariff reductions, or other trade related things? Or is it basically just "you no longer get to make any decisions"?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:55
|
|
|
Azran posted:I skipped ahead 600 posts, what's the democratic charter? The Inter-American Democratic Charter. It's a document all of the OAS members have signed that essentially defines what democracy is and how to uphold it. When people say "the OAS will invoke (or apply) the Democratic Charter to Venezuela", it essentially means that the OAS will say "Hey, Venezuela! Remember that thing you signed saying you'd uphold democracy? Why aren't you following it anymore?'. More specifically, "applying the Democratic Charter" refers to Article 20 and Article 21 of the Charter, which spell out what the OAS can do in the case that a member state veers off the democratic path. The two Articles read: quote:Article 20 In other words, "invoking the Democratic Charter" means taking a series of steps to help restore democracy in an OAS member state, and failing that, suspending the state from the OAS. A pessimist might say, "Well, so what? What's the point?". I think the answer is that calling things by their proper name certainly helps in identifying problems and working to solve them. Were the OAS to successfully invoke the Democratic Charter on Venezuela, it would be a solid piece of evidence to point to when arguing that Venezuela is a dictatorship. fishmech posted:So if they get suspended from the OAS, what things can they lose out on? Does it affect eligibility for tariff reductions, or other trade related things? Or is it basically just "you no longer get to make any decisions"? Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jun 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:56
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:It means that the OAS would formally recognize that there has been an "unconstitutional break from the democratic order" in Venezuela (read: a dictatorship), and could result in Venezuela's suspension from the OAS. The suspension would also likely reduce Venezuela's credit to "you're better off putting money into Star Citizen than into this country". With the government being unable to find creditors to bail itself out, they will be forced to negotiate. icantfindaname posted:How loving dumb do you have to be to think Venezuela is going to pay off any of their current debt at all? Especially as president of a country that went bankrupt multiple times despite being leaps and bounds less hosed up than Venezuela I don't think Macri is doing this without an explicit guarantee from the Venezuelan government. fnox fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jun 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:57
|
|
|
Maduro told Almagro to stick the charter up his rear end on national TV. That should tell you all you need to know about Maduro and the PSUV.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 06:57 |
|
|
I happened to catch Democracy Now Democracy Now Dot Org The War And Peace Report on the drive home and was not terribly surprised to hear them lobbing softballs at the Venezuelan ambassador to the OAS.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:43
|
|
