|
It was definitely a big mistake to make the inciting incident them stopping Thanos. Like what Tony, were they supposed to just let Thanos cause poo poo until somebody noticed? Also the stuff about nobody being able to read the future guy's mind came off as a little too plot convenient.
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 02:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 05:29 |
|
|
Civil War I: Team Iron Man is completely unsympathetic because they're loving evil Civil War II: Team Iron Man is completely unsympathetic because they're really loving stupid Progress, I guess!
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 02:22
|
|
|
Didn't Carol leak the Cosmic Cube rumor and that's why Thanos came in the first place?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 02:22
|
|
|
I went into Civil War 2 with astronomically low expectations. Bendis still managed to disappoint me. I suppose that's an achievement of some sort.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 02:28
|
|
|
Wasn't there some rumor about Mar-vell coming back, or was that just that Quasar tease? There was definitely one of his nega bands in ANAD Avengers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 02:36
|
|
|
Die Laughing posted:Wasn't there some rumor about Mar-vell coming back, or was that just that Quasar tease? There was definitely one of his nega bands in ANAD Avengers. I think they finally decided that they were keeping him dead. Also there's a new girl QUasar on the way.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 02:39
|
|
|
CW2 #1 was dumb. Like, on paper, I'm supposed to see Iron Man's side because convictions based on thought-crime are bad and can be wrong and poo poo. However, Ulysses' powers are incredibly vaguely explained so we never know if he sees a future or the future, which is probably totally intentional (but its still kind of bad writing) so maybe he's never wrong and there's no reason for Tony to be that upset at the party. And when the inciting event is something like Thanos that totally warrants a big response, it makes Carol totally in the right. The only thing Carol could really be in the wrong about is: Hey, if Thanos is in town, why not call loving everybody? Like, Thanos wrecks everyone all the time, sound all the alarms in all the various Avenger bases, not just the team books you're featured in. Ideally the inciting event should be when Carol tries starts trying to arrest someone for some disaster that hasn't happened yet and then people go "hey no we're gonna have to FIGHT DRAMATICALLY ABOUT THIS" e: Also I'm sure somebody's pointed it out by now but 1 issue in and Civil War II has already killed a black hero. Guess they don't have to dig Rhodey a giant tarp grave this time at least. Rhyno posted:Didn't Carol leak the Cosmic Cube rumor and that's why Thanos came in the first place? No, that was TwoPair fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jun 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:21
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Didn't Carol leak the Cosmic Cube rumor and that's why Thanos came in the first place? Nah, he was already headed to Earth based on what was happening in Ultimates. Carol didn't even know about the cube until the Shi'ar told her.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:21
|
|
|
My biggest irrational problem with Civil War 2 was it showing Carol drinking.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:31
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:My biggest irrational problem with Civil War 2 was it showing Carol drinking. Bendis has a long history of not giving a gently caress about prior characterizations that get in the way of his stories.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:36
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Bendis has a long history of not giving a gently caress about prior characterizations that get in the way of his stories. Yeah but this has nothing to do with the story as its just art mistake, and Tony being Carol's sponsor could add to it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:40
|
|
|
Yeah, I don't think Bendis is writing something small like that into the script he gives Marquez. It's just an artist flub.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:46
|
|
|
Hahahaha and of course they kill a black hero to show us the stakes. It truly is Civil War II.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:49
|
|
|
They are doing a great job of balancing the sides. Tony is an idiot for being mad they stopped Thanos and got Rhodey killed while Carol is an idiot that took on Thanos with less then the entire superhuman population.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:53
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:In less depressing Civil War news, Contest of Champions is the best book you're not reading. This is truth. Wonderful, fun book. Yvonmukluk posted:In more depressing news, it's getting cancelled. I blame all of you. God DAMMIT
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:54
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:My biggest irrational problem with Civil War 2 was it showing Carol drinking. In this storyline alone, Bendis already didn't give a poo poo about things like Tony no longer owning Avengers Tower, Reader's dog being possessed by whoever it was, or Doc Samson being dead. You really think he cares about Carol and Tony being recovering alcoholics?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:10
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:My biggest irrational problem with Civil War 2 was it showing Carol drinking. It could have been sparkling grape juice in a champagne flute. Although, when was the last time anybody referred to Carol's old baggage like the alcoholism?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:11
|
|
|
Carol's backstory has basically been boiled down to "Ex-Fighter Pilot".
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:18
|
|
|
muscles like this? posted:It was definitely a big mistake to make the inciting incident them stopping Thanos. Like what Tony, were they supposed to just let Thanos cause poo poo until somebody noticed? Also the stuff about nobody being able to read the future guy's mind came off as a little too plot convenient. Barry Convex posted:Civil War I: Team Iron Man is completely unsympathetic because they're loving evil poo poo at least in 1 Iron Man was coming at it from a not terrible place. Like yea maybe we should have some level of oversight and accountability for the dudes in spandex who can sometimes blow up half a city. That's not a terrible worldview to have even if Tony quickly let his team just become Cobra because plot reasons demanded nuance be beaten with a chain until it submitted I guess. In 2 that's almost instantly thrown out the window when the big evil danger that must be kept from going unchecked is...actually being kept very in check and responsibly used. It's only getting busted out against divine-like threats to the safety of the entire world. There's no hilariously over the top 'I BLEW UP A SCHOOL NOW I'M IN A GIMP SUIT TO PAY FOR IT' disaster. The disaster that happened was that the team who used the power were stupid and didn't plan enough. This isn't civil liberties vs safety, this is 'you rear end in a top hat, next time call your entire speed-dial to fight the space god' vs 'aw poo poo yea, sorry man'.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:23
|
|
|
SilverSupernova posted:In this storyline alone, Bendis already didn't give a poo poo about things like Tony no longer owning Avengers Tower, Reader's dog being possessed by whoever it was, or Doc Samson being dead. You really think he cares about Carol and Tony being recovering alcoholics? Doc Samson showed up in ultimates, Reader dog issue is going to be dealt with soon and happened after this storyline. Its stark tower and it's shown that Tony owns it in the Iron Man title that Bendis is wiring. bobkatt013 fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jun 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:30
|
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:The disaster that happened was that the team who used the power were stupid and didn't plan enough. This isn't civil liberties vs safety, this is 'you rear end in a top hat, next time call your entire speed-dial to fight the space god' vs 'aw poo poo yea, sorry man'. It's not even that. Rhodey was just here because he was visiting Carol, then Thanos happened and he thought he'd go and help. He died stopping Thanos, which is a thing you probably know could happen if you put on a costume and call yourself War Machine. There is absolutely no way you can argue Carol is wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:35
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:Doc Samson showed up in ultimates, He also showed up in Deadpool... as a corpse.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:37
|
|
|
SilverSupernova posted:He also showed up in Deadpool... as a corpse. When was this as he showed up in the last issue of Ultimates talking with Carol.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:38
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:When was this as he showed up in the last issue of Ultimates talking with Carol. It was post Secret Wars. I think it was the huge anniversary issue where Wade dug up the grave for reasons I forgot.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:44
|
|
|
SilverSupernova posted:It was post Secret Wars. I think it was the huge anniversary issue where Wade dug up the grave for reasons I forgot. Deadpool always is in the hyper reality where poo poo happens and you can just hand wave it away, but still does not change the fact that it was not something Bendis ignored as he did not bring him randomly back to life.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:46
|
|
|
ElNarez posted:It's not even that. Rhodey was just here because he was visiting Carol, then Thanos happened and he thought he'd go and help. He died stopping Thanos, which is a thing you probably know could happen if you put on a costume and call yourself War Machine. There is absolutely no way you can argue Carol is wrong. Yea true, not like Carol drafted him into the fight or whatever. You'd think of all people one of his closest friends would probably want to respect the whole 'this was basically everything Rhodney fought for, to die stopping a great danger to the entire world' by letting him be seen as a hero to the world rather than the start of yet another super hero fight. Like, I'm positive this is gonna end with 'is this what ~he~ would have wanted?' as Tony's come to Jesus moment, and somehow no one around will go 'oh wow way to not even consider your best friend's legacy while you got yet another authoritarian bug up your butt'. Maybe if Deadpool's there, can Marvel just put Deadpool with Tony constantly calling him out on this stupid nonsense? That'd make this more fun I think.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:50
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:Deadpool always is in the hyper reality where poo poo happens and you can just hand wave it away, but still does not change the fact that it was not something Bendis ignored as he did not bring him randomly back to life. Point taken.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:51
|
|
SirDan3k posted:They are doing a great job of balancing the sides. Tony is an idiot for being mad they stopped Thanos and got Rhodey killed while Carol is an idiot that took on Thanos with less then the entire superhuman population. You don't FIGHT Thanos, you find a space hippie to riddle with him until he fucks up. How is this not Avengers basic training. SirDan3k posted:Carol's backstory has basically been boiled down to "Ex-Fighter Pilot". Yeah KDS threw everything else out, except the connection to Mar-Vell.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:58
|
|
|
SilverSupernova posted:It was post Secret Wars. I think it was the huge anniversary issue where Wade dug up the grave for reasons I forgot. I remember Hulk digging up the grave before Secret Wars to check if he was still dead. I don't recall Wade doing it at any point, but that might just be me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:08
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:e: Also I'm sure somebody's pointed it out by now but 1 issue in and Civil War II has already killed a black hero. Guess they don't have to dig Rhodey a giant tarp grave this time at least. Thank you for pointing this out. Given all the poo poo that was thrown at Marvel for killing Giant Man last Civil War they go and OPEN this one by killing Rhodey? FFS
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:13
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:You don't FIGHT Thanos, you find a space hippie to riddle with him until he fucks up. now we'll never see creepy rape baby again
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:14
|
|
|
wombat74 posted:Thank you for pointing this out. Given all the poo poo that was thrown at Marvel for killing Giant Man last Civil War they go and OPEN this one by killing Rhodey? FFS There's an inherent difference between "black superhero dies while fighting the number one or number two biggest threat in the universe as a matter of course" and "black superhero is killed by a genetically engineered clone created as a weapon for one of the sides in a war between superheroes". Like, it's actively disingenuous at best to directly equate the two. Tatum Girlparts posted:
Are you seriously arguing that the side that's anti-"pre-crime" is the authoritarian one? NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jun 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:23
|
|
|
No it's not, it's a valid criticism. The fact that killing off minority characters is problematic has fuckall to do with what kind of threats they're facing and more to do with how disproportionately more often and readily it happens. There's a reason "The black guy dies first" became an actual meme before anyone even knew what memes were.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:27
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:There's an inherent difference between "black superhero dies while fighting the number one or number two biggest threat in the universe as a matter of course" and "black superhero is killed by the genetically engineered clone created as a weapon for one of the sides in a war between superheroes". The main reason for equating the two is that Marvel editorial (or just Bendis) made an explicit decision to kill a black hero. They (or he) chose what hero was going to get killed in two related "blockbuster" events, and both times it's been a black man. In the fight there are 11 heroes present. 4 of them are black. 1 of them is killed outright. Not one of the 6 white heroes (I mean She-Hulk is pretty hosed up right now, but I'd put cash money on her surviving) But AGAIN they kill a black character for "dramatic impact". So yeah, I am going to equate the two. The events occasioning their deaths and the circumstances are different, you are 100% right, but a choice was made by a writer to kill a black character. Again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:30
|
|
|
wombat74 posted:The main reason for equating the two is that Marvel editorial (or just Bendis) made an explicit decision to kill a black hero. They (or he) chose what hero was going to get killed in two related "blockbuster" events, and both times it's been a black man. They show her flat lining
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:31
|
|
|
Rhodes is killed for two reasons. First there's a new War Machine already and that means it's time to bag the old model. Second he's the best choice character wise becuase he's the only one deeply tied to the leaders of both sides so it has the most story potential. Whether they make good on that though is another matter all together.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:34
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:They show her flat lining I know, I read the issue, but she'll survive. Or get resurrected. Or turn magic sparkle fairy or some comic crap, but she'll be struttin' around, doin' Hulk stuff sooner rather than later Rhodey is dead so Our Hero Tony can have an emotion
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:34
|
|
|
Oh Rhodey probably the most currently well know black hero got fridged, and fridged hard, to set up the motivations of the two whitest leads in marvel that aren't off recreating the multiverse. When the poo poo splashes back onto Marvel they are going to be utterly surprised. [Edit] Even if it's not on purpose, Bendis probably just decided Rhodes was expendable because he writing a teen girl War Machine replacement in Invincible Iron Man, it was still dumb, dumb, dumb. SirDan3k fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Jun 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:34
|
|
|
Rhodes made it out of Cap3 alive, maybe he'll get robo resurrected again?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 05:29 |
|
|
I think people are vastly overestimating how many people give a poo poo about Rhodey. Also the fact they've already introduced his successor. Plus the comic that killed him came out what a month or so ago and leaked weeks before that? Nobody cared then.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 05:38
|
|