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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I happened to catch Democracy Now Democracy Now Dot Org The War And Peace Report on the drive home and was not terribly surprised to hear them lobbing softballs at the Venezuelan ambassador to the OAS. Democracy Now is pretty awful. I mean the headlines at the top are okay, I guess, but Goodman's "interviews" are invariably garbage unless you want to hear the interviewee's talking points repeated over and over. It's basically the left-wing equivalent of CNN.
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Jun 2, 2016 06:05
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Sorry for our poo poo foreign policy Venegoons. It wouldn't be Latin America if we didn't gently caress it up at the last minute.
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Jun 2, 2016 12:08
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:Sorry for our poo poo foreign policy Venegoons. It wouldn't be Latin America if we didn't gently caress it up at the last minute. 'The gently caress? Who is 'we'?
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Jun 2, 2016 12:42
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TheImmigrant posted:'The gently caress? Who is 'we'? The OAS, I guess. Not that anyone's foreign policy has anything particular to do with how badly Venezuela has hosed itself.
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Jun 2, 2016 13:02
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Saladman posted:The OAS, I guess. Not that anyone's foreign policy has anything particular to do with how badly Venezuela has hosed itself. I'd actually argue it's got a lot to do with it. I'm not sure they'd be in the situation they are in now without their international enablers helping them along.
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Jun 2, 2016 13:58
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GlyphGryph posted:I'd actually argue it's got a lot to do with it. I'm not sure they'd be in the situation they are in now without their international enablers helping them along. Has anyone actually helped the PSUV recently? It seems they're just not saying anything against them, rather than supporting them in any way besides buying their oil. It seems more like a Kitty Genovese situation.
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Jun 2, 2016 14:04
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Saladman posted:Has anyone actually helped the PSUV recently? It seems they're just not saying anything against them, rather than supporting them in any way besides buying their oil. It seems more like a Kitty Genovese situation. Not saying anything is helping. It helps the PSUV keep up the facade that it's running a legitimate government.
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Jun 2, 2016 14:17
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Democracy Now is pretty awful. I mean the headlines at the top are okay, I guess, but Goodman's "interviews" are invariably garbage unless you want to hear the interviewee's talking points repeated over and over. It's basically the left-wing equivalent of CNN. I like the idea that a leader removed via impeachment through a legal process by other elected representatives (also probably corrupt) for being corrupt as hell is apparently a coup - but a leader breaking the law to avoid removal from power while locking out the opposition representatives is completely legit, democracy in action, etc.
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Jun 2, 2016 14:20
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But if you've reframed "socialist" government as some Manichean struggle against ultimate evil, then who needs any of those pesky laws getting in your way anyway?
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Jun 2, 2016 15:13
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TheImmigrant posted:'The gently caress? Who is 'we'? Argentina, we had an actual good concrete chance to push at the OAS and we didn't. Sorry for not being clearer.
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Jun 2, 2016 16:17
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A spontaneous protest broke a few blocks from my home, smack dab in the center of Caracas where all the ministries are located and several blocks away from the presidential palace. There apparently were also a few episodes of attempted lootings in the area and the national guard is currently dispersing the protestors with tear gas. It's worth noting that although this is only a small protest, the government has repeatedly said that they won't allow political demonstrations against them in western Caracas.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:24
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Saladman posted:Has anyone actually helped the PSUV recently? It seems they're just not saying anything against them, rather than supporting them in any way besides buying their oil. It seems more like a Kitty Genovese situation. Most of the Latin American countries are asleep at 3am, one called out and stopped the first assault on Venezuela, the second assault happened inside a stairwell with only one witness, and even still two people called the police in the days before 911 when you had to know and dial your specific precinct number? Yes, the situations are very similar. 
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Jun 2, 2016 18:28
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:Argentina, we had an actual good concrete chance to push at the OAS and we didn't. Sorry for not being clearer. Ah, I thought it was some bed-wetting, self-loathing moper from the US who looks under rocks for things to blame himself for.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:31
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Labradoodle posted:A spontaneous protest broke a few blocks from my home, smack dab in the center of Caracas where all the ministries are located and several blocks away from the presidential palace. There apparently were also a few episodes of attempted lootings in the area and the national guard is currently dispersing the protestors with tear gas. I'm watching this really closely today. The protest broke out just eight blocks east of the Miraflores Palace, which is the seat of the national government. It looks like the National Bolivarian Police and possibly the National Guard also were quick to respond. Here are some pictures from the protest there:     And a video apparently showing protesters running away from something. It looks like they're running away from the police line, which may have used tear gas to disperse the crowd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vevh5rXvP90 EDIT: La Patilla has a page up with lots of videos and pictures from the protest in Caracas today. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 19:04
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Here's a video of some cameramen getting robbed by colectivos: https://twitter.com/ferchomr90/status/738433428991946753
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Jun 2, 2016 19:30
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I had to take the subway close to the protest, it was pretty small and contained from what I could see. Weirdly enough, a lot of business closed down early on my block a little ways away, but the closer boulevards were open as usual. People walking around and shopping normally with the protest a block or two away.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:41
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MothraAttack posted:Here's a video of some cameramen getting robbed by colectivos: In broad loving daylight on a running street. 
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Jun 2, 2016 19:45
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When do you guys expect the ruling on the referendum signatures?
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Jun 2, 2016 19:47
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Today was a clear example on how the opposition has no real interest in ousting Maduro so long as they can guarantee themselves positions in the government. If they wanted to do a concentration in Miraflores, they could do so, and there wouldn't be enough policemen to stop the crowds.Amused to Death posted:When do you guys expect the ruling on the referendum signatures? loving never.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:53
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Amused to Death posted:When do you guys expect the ruling on the referendum signatures? The CNE said a few weeks back that the verification process would start today. I haven't heard anything about that since.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:56
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Seeing people on Twitter say that the protesters are fascists and rich people who are angry at not being able to buy caviar is Here's a video of one of the caviar-starved fascists. Note that the men in the video are moving garbage and other objects onto the road with the hope of stopping traffic from going through: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ad-jTCCD7k quote:Man in Blue: I want my freedom again, [like] back when we could buy things! We don't have freedom now. They want to oppress us [by] giving us one bag of food per week. We want freedom! Before, we had [money?] and could go out at whatever time of day we wanted. Before, we could set up a little store -- even if we were unemployed, we could set up a little store to help with things a bit. Now, we can't even set up a little store to help things.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:17
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Fuschia tude posted:Most of the Latin American countries are asleep at 3am, one called out and stopped the first assault on Venezuela, the second assault happened inside a stairwell with only one witness, and even still two people called the police in the days before 911 when you had to know and dial your specific precinct number? Yes, the situations are very similar. Huh, the whole popular story of Kitty Genovese is total bullshit apparently. I'd never actually looked into it. Anyway, you know what I meant.
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Jun 2, 2016 22:29
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GreyjoyBastard posted:In broad loving daylight on a running street.  that's cute, probably most robberies in Caracas happen in broad daylight since nobody goes out at night.
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Jun 2, 2016 23:30
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Hugoon Chavez posted:
The robberies mostly happen during the day, kidnappings and murders during the night.
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Jun 2, 2016 23:32
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It turns out that the reason for yesterday's protest in Caracas is as  as you'd expect.Some background; Earlier this year, the national government created an organization called the Comites Locales de Abastecimiento y Produccion [Local Supply and Production Committees] (CLAP). These are organizations that are supposed to work closely with the military to, among other things, organize door-to-door food deliveries. The government figures that if people are having trouble finding food in supermarkets, they can just deliver the food directly to them. CLAP delivers regulated products only. These are the most basic products (milk, eggs, butter, sugar, corn flour, soap, etc.) and also the ones that are the most scarce in supermarkets. CLAP committees are made up some a couple of organizations, some of which are straight up armed militias (like the "Bolivar-Chavez Battle Units") Yesterday, people lined up the busy Urdaneta avenue near the Fuerzas Armadas avenue to get into supermarkets in the area. In the early morning, food trucks began arriving in the area to stock the supermarkets, but they were intercepted by local CLAPs. The CLAPs apparently wanted to inspect the trucks for regulated products to take so that they could add it to their inventories for delivery. The people who were lined up to buy stuff in the area saw what was going on, and that's when the protest started. Caracas Chronicles has an article in English about all of this here. I've been hearing all kinds of rumours since yesterday afternoon about how the government is going to start diverting all regulated products from supermarkets to CLAPs so that people will only be able to get food and other basic necessities directly from the government, but I'm not inclined to believe that just yet. I think that what's more likely is that what happened yesterday was that the local CLAPs got a little overzealous and figured they could just take some of the food from the supermarkets in that area to fulfill their quotas. This situation is really tricky for a number of reasons, including the fact that like I mentioned earlier, CLAPs are partially made up by what are essentially civilian militias (the feared colectivos armados). We saw them in action yesterday, like in that video of the reporters who get dragged out of their car and beaten by armed men.
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Jun 3, 2016 13:19
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Chuck Boone posted:It means that the OAS would formally recognize that there has been an "unconstitutional break from the democratic order" in Venezuela (read: a dictatorship), and could result in Venezuela's suspension from the OAS. Would that allow Venezuelans to apply for asylum in other countries? I'd imagine that anyone fleeing a dictatorship probably would be in a bit of trouble if sent back.
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Jun 3, 2016 14:27
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The Larch posted:Would that allow Venezuelans to apply for asylum in other countries? I'd imagine that anyone fleeing a dictatorship probably would be in a bit of trouble if sent back. That's a good question. I'm not sure. I think it could definitely help a Venezuelan make their case at their asylum hearing. What little I know about asylum laws and regulations in Canada is that they're fairly complex. The government of Canada has a list of countries it deems to be safe enough that people coming from those countries can't claim asylum. Venezuela isn't on that list. I imagine that other countries and the EU have similar regulations. In any case, an OAS statement (or the application of articles 20 and/or 21) would be good in precisely these kinds of situations. Venezuelans can kick and scream in Venezuela all they want about how much the country is a dictatorship, and Venezuelans abroad can bore their coworkers to death with the story (and post in forums about it) with zero impact on policy. A formal declaration from an internationally recognized diplomatic like the OAS would make headlines and draw all kinds of attention, which is good.
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Jun 3, 2016 14:38
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If the government really tries to make it so people can only get food through their bullshit CLAP groups instead of supermarkets then the riots are only going to get worse, they are so loving stupid they really don't get it.
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Jun 3, 2016 14:58
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El Hefe posted:If the government really tries to make it so people can only get food through their bullshit CLAP groups instead of supermarkets then the riots are only going to get worse, they are so loving stupid they really don't get it. This is why I'm thinking that what happened yesterday wasn't part of any government plan. I just cannot imagine the PSUV being that stupid. Venezuela's got 30 million people. Rolling out this kind of massive undertaking haphazardly would be a catastrophe. I don't have the sources handy, but I've read accounts of people who've said that they were asked by the CLAP staff prior to receiving their food if they were registered with the PSUV, or if they'd voted in favour of the recall referendum. We already know that the government has used the mision vivienda as a carrot on a stick for people to support them, and we're already seeing CLAP being used for the same reasons.
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Jun 3, 2016 15:08
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I cannot imagine the military being able to deliver food reliably to the entire population door-to-door ona weekly basis due to the hilariously demanding logistics that would require. There's a reason depots and stores are a thing.
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Jun 3, 2016 16:00
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Finally some good news, I got a passport appointment for this Monday, yay! Hopefully they don't take too long making the actual thing and giving it to me.
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Jun 3, 2016 16:47
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Caracas Chronicles's latest post goes into the CNE signature "verification" process for the Recall Referendum. It shouldn't surprise anyone that the CNE is looking to disqualify as many signatures as possible, but the lengths to which they go are... remarkable:quote:But the thing that lays CNE’s bad faith bare, the thing that broadcasts its voter suppression agenda for all the world, is the insane decision to invalidate the entire form (10 signatures, remember) due to any minor mistake filling out the top of the form. http://www.caracaschronicles.com/2016/06/03/54198/
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Jun 3, 2016 16:59
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El Hefe posted:Finally some good news, I got a passport appointment for this Monday, yay! Great! Now, based on experience with other socialist paradises, have you considered bribing the people involved to make sure the passport gets done on time?
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Jun 3, 2016 17:09
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El Hefe posted:Finally some good news, I got a passport appointment for this Monday, yay! Where are you planning to go?
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Jun 3, 2016 17:12
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Wont the CNE have to invalidate 9/10 signatures to deny the recall?
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Jun 3, 2016 17:13
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JohnGalt posted:Wont the CNE have to invalidate 9/10 signatures to deny the recall? Unfortunate fire at the warehouse, all the forms are ruined before final confirmation process could be completed! Guess it all needs to be done over! Computer containing the scanned electronic copies was mysteriously hacked by the CIA, right after all physical copies were destroyed!
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Jun 3, 2016 17:22
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This is only the first stage, where ~200 thousand signatures need to be collected. After that, the opposition need 4 million signatures. Even if they "graciously" "allow" the first stage to complete, they still can come up with a lot of bullshit. beer_war fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 17:22
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JohnGalt posted:Wont the CNE have to invalidate 9/10 signatures to deny the recall? I'm horrible at math, but the MUD handed about 2.8 million signatures when the CNE asked for I think 197,000. In any case, it's obvious that the CNE is trying its hardest to throw out as many as it can. Dismissing 10 signatures at a time because a cursive "u" kind of looks like a "o" is ridiculous. Think about what's going on here for just one minute. Millions of people with the same dreams and worries as you and I put their faith in a democratic process with the hope of finding a peaceful solution to their desperate situation. Those people woke up one day with a gleam in their eye and left their homes to line up in the sun hopeful that today would be the day that things would begin to turn around. They signed those forms with pride thinking that they were putting in their little grain to help make a better country for themselves and for their children. The violence that the PSUV is doing to these people by throwing their signatures in the trash because they haven't quite stolen everything they wanted to steal is almost too much to imagine. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 17:25
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Today the following things happened, in order (this all happens one day after the city nearly collapsed due to food riots):
  
fnox fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 23:15
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fnox posted:Today the following things happened, in order (this all happens one day after the city nearly collapsed due to food riots): People who call García Marquez magical realism haven't spent enough time in Latin America
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Jun 3, 2016 23:36
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