|
Kashuno posted:The patch isn't out yet? Why? It's Wednesday. Wednesday is patch day.
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2016 23:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 14:37 |
|
|
Every point of damage from that vayne counted tho, way to not post her 45/-1/90 score, noob
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 00:55
|
|
|
Safety Scissors posted:Why? It's Wednesday. Wednesday is patch day. Everything's pushed back a day because of Memorial Day.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 01:36
|
|
|
Mikujin posted:Reading patch notes lately it's like Riot has migrated from their old poor radical balance decisions (multiple sweeping changes on things) to the complete polar opposite with glacially slow and conservative (largely irrelevant) balance changes. It's like they don't know how to find a middle ground so things either change a lot or not at all. At least it's not Blizzard's habit of breaking class' legs off, beating them to death with them with a round of like eight "hotfixes" then leave them on the ground to writhe around and die while other broken as gently caress classes remain broken as gently caress for half a year
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 01:58
|
|
|
Servaetes posted:At least it's not Blizzard's habit of breaking class' legs off, beating them to death with them with a round of like eight "hotfixes" then leave them on the ground to writhe around and die while other broken as gently caress classes remain broken as gently caress for half a year Druid.txt
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 02:00
|
|
|
Servaetes posted:At least it's not Blizzard's habit of breaking class' legs off, beating them to death with them with a round of like eight "hotfixes" then leave them on the ground to writhe around and die while other broken as gently caress classes remain broken as gently caress for half a year. Methanar posted:Druid.txt
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 02:07
|
|
|
I think I prefer their current approach of 'buff the poo poo out of a bunch of stuff, then nerf tiny things for 4 months' over any other period of time they've had balancing. You get a patch where a new champion is must p/b, and then everything settles in with a few favored champs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 02:28
|
|
|
bronze 2, a motion picture EXT. MIDLANE - 13:27 0/2 MISS FORTUNE thres, why not buy sightstone 0/5 THRESH bout frozen heart 'cause we need protection from voli ganks 0/3 MISS FORTUNE wards protect us, retard 0/6 THRESH condoms didnt protect ur mom getting hosed by her cousin MISS FORTUNE HAS DISCONNECTED
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:33
|
|
|
Endorph posted:bronze 2, a motion picture burn could be better. kids these days can't even talk poo poo well.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 03:45
|
|
|
Biowarfare posted:what is your summoner name Ninepenny, why do you ask  Edit: OCE Cheap Trick fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Jun 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 04:11
|
|
|
hes gonna flag you for losses
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 06:54
|
|
DolphinCop posted:the news post said 0.1% chance per game of encountering a premade for most players which goes to an utterly devastating 4% at the highest levels of play Not only that but get this: you're a staggering 27% percent more likely to lose if you're a toxic.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 07:27
|
|
|
I didn't think League players could get whinier but here we are. A lot of people need to realise that their priorities for ranked play are not universal, and it's literally impossible to make a system that pleases everyone. Mikujin posted:Reading patch notes lately it's like Riot has migrated from their old poor radical balance decisions (multiple sweeping changes on things) to the complete polar opposite with glacially slow and conservative (largely irrelevant) balance changes. It's like they don't know how to find a middle ground so things either change a lot or not at all. It's like balancing 100+ champs and items for 60 million players ranging in skill from professional savant to one-armed vegetable is a delusional goal that everyone pretends is totally plausible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 07:45
|
|
|
Bubble-T posted:A lot of people need to realise that their priorities for ranked play are not universal, and it's literally impossible to make a system that pleases everyone personally i get zero enjoyment from synergising with my team, grouping and playing as five or whatever. i just want to get 500 cs and play single player. i guess some people would be happy that you can't do that anymore but it also means i don't wanna play the game
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 07:54
|
|
|
Work Friend Keven posted:Not only that but get this: you're a staggering 27% percent more likely to lose if you're a toxic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 08:15
|
|
|
Bubble-T posted:I didn't think League players could get whinier but here we are. You are the problem. No one is whining or even acting all that rashly(look to my champ select square in the OP for an example), we're all having reasonable discussion about what we feel is wrong and what we like about the current system of riot handling things and then you come in and go "man everyone who doesn't like EVERYTHING that riot is doing is a big BABY and they need to stop CRYING SO MUCH UGH". It detracts from any sort of discussion that was going on and just gets people riled up. On behalf of everyone, in the future, if you could instead just please shut the gently caress up, that'd be great tia
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 08:54
|
|
|
I think whining about boxes and solo queue is dumb and would rather talk about the gameplay itself
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 09:01
|
|
|
there was (1) post about boxes that I saw and the discussion about solo q vs dynamic q is a lot more relevant to the game than you give it credit for
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 09:16
|
|
|
Bubble-T posted:It's like balancing 100+ champs and items for 60 million players ranging in skill from professional savant to one-armed vegetable is a delusional goal that everyone pretends is totally plausible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 10:03
|
|
|
friendly reminder that the original team that designed most of this stuff were people who had worked on dota the original back in the day and some of those people are actually still around iirc
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 10:04
|
|
|
the problem isn't really whether balance is possible. you could tweak numbers and remove a ton of items and get a perfectly balanced game in, like, a day. It really wouldn't be that hard. The problem is that it'd be dull. Champions coming in and out of the meta keeps people excited, and it keeps people watching pro play because every season the champ pool is different. Not to mention if everything was perfectly balanced you'd have to squash down a lot of things that make champions unique. Azir is always going to be above average so long as the Shurima Shuffle exists, unless you completely nerf him into the ground, but the Shurima Shuffle is cool so they keep it. The idea is to keep things mostly balanced, and throw in enough variables that anything can work. You buff and nerf edgecases as they emerge, you don't just buff/nerf random champions to try and chase the dragon of balance in all things. If Riot really wanted a perfectly balanced game, Aatrox would have been getting buffs for, like, four years.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 10:15
|
|
|
Ok, except that's not really what we were talking about at all. We're not talking about how riot should be buffing or nerfing things for ~true equality amongst all~ we're talking about how they're really poo poo at taking care of their edge cases. Every time, they either do nothing about it for two patches (hello post rework ryze) and then just do minimal change over and over again that doesn't really do anything to their overall power, or they dumpster the champions that are strong (devourer junglers sans kindred for some reason) and then they go "well whoops we made a little gaffe on those nerfs it wasn't the champions that were strong it was the items! who woulda thought?", nerf the poo poo out of the ACTUAL problem that made the outlier case, and leave behind them crippled champions. They have done this again and again and again and you'd think they'd learn but nah, nothing changes
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 10:36
|
|
|
yeah that's totally fair, i was responding to bubble-t there not you
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 10:42
|
|
|
Luna Was Here posted:Ok, except that's not really what we were talking about at all. We're not talking about how riot should be buffing or nerfing things for ~true equality amongst all~ we're talking about how they're really poo poo at taking care of their edge cases. Every time, they either do nothing about it for two patches (hello post rework ryze) and then just do minimal change over and over again that doesn't really do anything to their overall power, or they dumpster the champions that are strong (devourer junglers sans kindred for some reason) and then they go "well whoops we made a little gaffe on those nerfs it wasn't the champions that were strong it was the items! who woulda thought?", nerf the poo poo out of the ACTUAL problem that made the outlier case, and leave behind them crippled champions. They have done this again and again and again and you'd think they'd learn but nah, nothing changes Not that riot is innocent in all this but the community is part of the issue too. People get really intractable about champions sometimes- bans often lag a patch or two behind actually OP champions, and it takes a lot to stop people playing formerly OP champions- Elise got nerfed like 50 times in a row and pros kept picking her, for example. So Riot got into the habit of crushing champions to scare people off and then rebuffing, which they're trying to back off of now. Tali is getting left in the trash because they've previously buffed released champions who then were insane op when people figured them out (Elise again, actually). So Riot is at least trying to learn from the past.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 10:45
|
|
|
I think the main cause behind that is that champions are powerful in solo q and pro play for different reasons. for instance I think the reason that elise was picked for so long was because she was tanky enough while still being able to do consistent damage and lockdown with her kit that teams tended to nudge her into comps to get that little boost of frontline power that they needed. She's only been nudged out now that champs that do the same thing except they farm faster and do way more damage and its why AP tank tops are starting to make the small comeback they are.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 10:57
|
|
|
i think every LCK game ive watched this season (not that many) has had an elise in it so lets hold off on saying shes gone. shes a really strong design that they have to go out of their way to ruin to remove from competitive play by simply having a kit that does things competitive junglers need to do very well. league is never going to be balanced the way it is now for a bunch of reasons, but about half the champions have almost no identity beyond the way they deal damage. while this does lead to some interesting potential in matchups and people can play drat near anything and potentially do well even in the highest ranks of solo queue, comp play is always going to get narrowed down to whatever is the best. league just isn't made the way dota is to allow almost everything to get picked potentially as a question or answer during a draft.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 13:30
|
|
|
I have no idea how you've missed the countless Kindred versus Graves games but you're really exaggerating how much play Elise is seeing
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 14:13
|
|
|
I'm a little late to the discussion on riot dropping the bomb on "officially" killing solo queue. I think the most disturbing element of the whole announcement is how 1) when they brought Scarra to the discussion he had no advance notice that they were going to do what they did and 2) how completely disconnected the engineers seemed with the game (reverting to statistics and self-deprecation). What's even stranger is how they basically reverting dynamic queue back to solo queue, but only if you get to a high enough mmr. The concept of climbing divisions with a team of 5, and having to stop at diamond, is really absurd if you think about it. I'm still part of the camp that players should have the option to play the game with only other solo players. Riot should implement opt-in voice chat. Players should be able to opt for as few or as many roles as they want. I think most players are willing to accept really long queue times if they know that they will guarantee their main role. This is also a crazy idea: but maybe riot should consider making those roles that a relatively unpopular (e.g., support) attractive with more incentives to play those roles (well). The challenges riot is coming up against are really a consequence of how crappy it is to play in the bot lane. Currently the only incentives riot has for players is to play with more people--- but with very limited in-game resources to actually find and play with other players of similar rank and diverse skill mixes (not to mention communication). I say shift those incentives to encouraging diverse play-styles as well as creating mechanisms for players to develop lasting relationships and they'll find that players might want to play with each other more.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 14:38
|
|
|
rabidsquid posted:I have no idea how you've missed the countless Kindred versus Graves games but you're really exaggerating how much play Elise is seeing Week 1 of LCK Summer 2016: Elise pick/ban 80% of games Kindred pick/ban 100% of games Graves pick/ban 20% of games so yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 14:38
|
|
|
I agree that it would be nice to let you pick for more or less roles and just eat the long queue but a) Riot's queue estimation is let's say "required to make a lot of guesses" as is so good luck getting an accurate picture of the actual difference and b) you're actually making everyone at your MMR's queues longer when you queue for less roles because every game that would have been able to start with you in a secondary role gets delayed waiting for someone else. Although depending on how roles distribution works out that might not be a factor. After all, a queue is only as fast as the slowest aspect. In team builder everyone got stuck waiting for bot lane even if jungle hypothetically had a shorter wait than mid, so I can't say mid going "I could also jungle?" would have helped much.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 14:48
|
|
|
Radical posted:i think every LCK game ive watched this season (not that many) has had an elise in it so lets hold off on saying shes gone. shes a really strong design that they have to go out of their way to ruin to remove from competitive play by simply having a kit that does things competitive junglers need to do very well. I agree, I think Elise is almost the perfect jungler. She has high single-target damage and CC for ganking, mobility, and between her % damage spells and the spider form W attack speed for hitting turrets she's great at taking objectives. When they managed to nerf her out of the meta I think they put her damage and stun in the dumpster and the AP jungle item was a sheen thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 14:53
|
|
|
milkman dad posted:I'm still part of the camp that players should have the option to play the game with only other solo players. This would probably split the playerbase too much. It's a legitimate problem with having multiple queues like that and multiple games have had that problem in the past. Either by simply splitting the playerbase, or worse, eventually all the solo players migrate to the solo-only queue. I understand dynamic queue is a problem for the higher elos but it hardly changes when or how I play in lower rankings so it's not that big a deal to me tbh.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 14:59
|
|
|
yea league kinda "removed" the solo-carry (aka ignore my team and split push, cs, make space). dota did the same thing over the last two years. it's something weird and a little unfortunate, in my dumb opinion. like in much older online games I remember how you could often spot that one guy just solo-ing entire teams, but that whole things has been slowly watered down or removed from pretty much all games (this is a totally unfounded conclusion, more of a feeling of just mostly playing online games for the last 10 years). It seems that now devs are dealing with "customers" on such a large scale appeal you want everyone to feel satisfied and avoid the horrid "anti-fun" and "no counterplay" experience that riot and others have latched onto and its spread to just the general gaming collective hive-mind (devs and players). or I'm just an old and full of contradictions! "back in my day you could play team games without interacting with your team!" milkman dad posted:The challenges riot is coming up against are really a consequence of how crappy it is to play in the bot lane. alright I wrote too many words about a video game. time to poop Zmej fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jun 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 15:02
|
|
|
The only reason Elise and Rek'sai are back is because Graves got mercilessly nerfed - it's going to be even more apparent once the next round of Kindred and Nidalee nerfs come in. e: who's jungler #3? What's the third option once you don't get Elise or Rek'sai? It could be Amumu, who got played in the LCK, or maybe even Trundle. J4? Olaf? e2: oops kind of thought this was the pro thread, mb. Sexpansion fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jun 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 15:06
|
|
|
I'm not necessarily against solo players queuing with other solo players but if you're doing that you have to ban 4 man groups. There is just no incentive to play dynamic as a solo player when you could play solo, and with solo players draining out of the queue there's not gonna be enough of them for 2/2/1 or 3/1/1 stuff, every dynamic queue solo game will be the tagalong to a 4 man and that will drain solos away faster. If you have real solo you just need to say "queue as 1-3 or a full team" in dynamic. Riot probably realises that and for whatever reason really values the ability to queue as 1-5 and decided they cared more about it than solos. I suspect that also Riot is worried that solosolo queue is going to be toxic zone and is trying to draw people towards queuing in groups because you're less likely to type slurs at your friends in the chat and if you call them nasty things on discord it's not their problem. That might also be why they're not going for the "solo players get an incentive to play in dynamic" route because they don't actually want to encourage you to play solo. Also if I'm honest, I think the actual balance problem is less "how can 2/2/1 ever beat the superior communication of 3/2" and more "matchmaking can't tell if you're queuing with a friend to yell memes at them on teamspeak or to coordinate plays"
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 15:14
|
|
|
WIFEY WATCHDOG fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jun 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 15:14
|
|
|
my team just got absolutely hosed by an illaoi, i hope this isnt a trend
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 15:16
|
|
|
Sexpansion posted:The only reason Elise and Rek'sai are back is because Graves got mercilessly nerfed - it's going to be even more apparent once the next round of Kindred and Nidalee nerfs come in. god I hope it's amumu
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 15:19
|
|
|
Luna Was Here posted:You are the problem. No one is whining or even acting all that rashly(look to my champ select square in the OP for an example), we're all having reasonable discussion about what we feel is wrong and what we like about the current system of riot handling things and then you come in and go "man everyone who doesn't like EVERYTHING that riot is doing is a big BABY and they need to stop CRYING SO MUCH UGH". It detracts from any sort of discussion that was going on and just gets people riled up. On behalf of everyone, in the future, if you could instead just please shut the gently caress up, that'd be great I was talking about the league community in general but ok. Glad you got that off your chest. Endorph posted:the problem isn't really whether balance is possible. you could tweak numbers and remove a ton of items and get a perfectly balanced game in, like, a day. It really wouldn't be that hard. I also don't think you can just remove items and squash champion kits down at this point, you've gotta have way less champs - there's just too many for some not to be entirely overshadowed by similar-but-better options. Other than that I agree with what your saying, even if you could perfectly balance current league they probably wouldn't do it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 15:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 14:37 |
|
|
SaberToothedPie posted:my team just got absolutely hosed by an illaoi, i hope this isnt a trend tentacles bro
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2016 15:34
|
|