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Exmond posted:The AI Cheats, and cheats blatantly , in the total war games. You can either mod it out or learn to deal with it. This is an interesting statement of faith, but I'm saying you are seeing high-tier units coming out of a faction with a SPECIFIC MECHANIC for spawning instantly high tier units they don't have the tech for with a lucky die roll. If you see an empire secessionist bring out a steam tank in turn 3, then we can talk about cheating.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:19
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The AI cheats because it's AI and if it didn't the game would be kinda dumb and easy. It's really only challenging because they get advantages.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:26
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Great Weapon Quarrellers are baaad, though I wonder if giving them Anti-Large melee is going too far in the other direction.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:29
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Rakthar posted:Like people are also wrong on stuff like doublecasting, how raise dead works, etc - it's a new videogame so people are going to not really know how it works very well. Yeah that's fine. I understand that a lot of stuff is not transparent and there is good reason for people to suspect cheating in some cases. What gets me is when people just go straight from "do not understand" --------> "AI MUST BE CHEATING" with absolutely no hesitation or possibility in their mind that maybe there is information they just don't have.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:34
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Hey Mazz, could you upload that dwarf city mod or just very briefly outline how it's done so I can so I can do it myself? I tried poking through the mod tool but I've never done any Total War modding and it's kind of confusing.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:35
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Faffel posted:If it's anything like DCS, the recording simply fails to represent a few things accurately and then everything goes progressively worse from there as the errors stack up. So it would fail to show you bank at a certain point, so by the end of the replay you end up in a total different spot from where you should've ended up in the replay. So no point. Yeah, but in that case why even provide a replay system if its been poo poo broken for 3 games in the series? If they knew it didnt work after the first game why on earth didn't they fix it instead of just shoehorning it into the next 2 games? That doesn't make sense to me.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:37
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Mazz posted:The AI cheats because it's AI and if it didn't the game would be kinda dumb and easy. It's really only challenging because they get advantages. ^ This is distinct from 'chasing down armies is annoying', but yeah, ambush + heroes
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Jun 2, 2016 18:37
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toasterwarrior posted:Great Weapon Quarrellers are baaad, though I wonder if giving them Anti-Large melee is going too far in the other direction. I really don't get the point of them. The whole benefit of quarrelers is that they can trade fire with more squishy ranged units and reliably come out ahead. Losing the shield removes this advantage. Great weapons in general seem iffy. They're more expensive, make the unit more vulnerable, and are only more effective vs some targets.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:38
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Panfilo posted:Great weapons in general seem iffy. They're more expensive, make the unit more vulnerable, and are only more effective vs some targets. I'd say Great weapons are for flanking, you dont want to use them in a stand up fight exactly, thats for any unit with decent armour +shields.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:41
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Thanks to the people who recommended splitting off a second horde for chaos on turn 1. It was a game changer early on. I'm now at around turn 70 and consolidating my hold on the north with two fully grown hordes that are now focusing on fleshing out their recruitment buildings, but I've got a question - when about do people split off a third horde?
2 SPOOKY fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 18:41
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Gejnor posted:I'd say Great weapons are for flanking, you dont want to use them in a stand up fight exactly, thats for any unit with decent armour +shields. Unfortunately, Dwarven ranged flanking is far, far superior to Dwarven melee flanking.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:44
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I don't really mean to claim the AI always plays entirely fairly, but really what gets my goat is people failing to realise that many times these cases of AI 'cheating' is just the AI playing very reasonably to exploit mechanics you could, and should be also taking advantage of. Edit: Great weapons is basically armour pierce, and whether that's good probably depends on who you are fighting. Do shields count as armour? Fangz fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 18:48
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Halman posted:Hey Mazz, could you upload that dwarf city mod or just very briefly outline how it's done so I can so I can do it myself? I plan to put up the dwarf and an empire version when I get home today, which should be in a couple hours I hope. Found a bug with lumbermills and them having the "building" hammer icon show up when there is no tier IV upgrade that I want to fix first and didn't get to it last night while playing. Mazz fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 18:49
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toasterwarrior posted:Unfortunately, Dwarven ranged flanking is far, far superior to Dwarven melee flanking. Sure, but for other who have them, like graveguards with great weapons or technically the empire's greatswords (they are seen as great weapons more or less right?) you use them for the flanks. Played a new Kemmler game today, and ive grown to love the Hex and Cairnwraiths. Sure, Mannfred and the Varghulf are a stronger start, the wraiths demand a bit more finesse to pay off but when they do its glorious. Also, it seems setting unit size to large makes the healing spells of the vampire lore much much stronger, nehek resses wraiths for instance even during fighting rather than giving a nearly pitiful heal (during combat i mean) so yeah until CA makes some scaling fixes im gonna stick with large for now as it overall makes spells more fun. Gejnor fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 18:51
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Gejnor posted:Sure, but for other who have them, like graveguards with great weapons or technically the empire's greatswords (they are seen as great weapons more or less right?) you use them for the flanks. Oh yes, that's true. Still, it seems Great Weapon options for Dwarves are just there for completion's sake, because they sure as hell ain't great.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:52
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Fangz posted:I don't really mean to claim the AI always plays entirely fairly, but really what gets my goat is people failing to realise that many times these cases of AI 'cheating' is just the AI playing very reasonably to exploit mechanics you could, and should be also taking advantage of. Yeah nobody is saying that AI doesn't cheat at all, or even that it shouldn't. It's just the hyperbole about perceived cheating from people who don't understand the game systems is really lol.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:55
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toasterwarrior posted:Oh yes, that's true. Still, it seems Great Weapon options for Dwarves are just there for completion's sake, because they sure as hell ain't great. I don't like building Great Weapon Quarrelers for real armies, but the garrison version you get are kind of hilarious just because Orc Warbosses love to charge right into them and get murdered. Plus they're decent in defensive sieges generally where being able to hold a wall in a pinch is a more useful thing. As for Longbeards with Greatweapons I use them as a poor-man's Hammerer, particularly for taking walls in sieges. Those Black Orcs just don't die if you try to grind them down without AP damage.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:56
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madmac posted:I don't like building Great Weapon Quarrelers for real armies, but the garrison version you get are kind of hilarious just because Orc Warbosses love to charge right into them and get murdered. Plus they're decent in defensive sieges generally where being able to hold a wall in a pinch is a more useful thing. The only reason I got a heroic defeat or whatever it's called on chaos was because I charged my great weapon quarrelers into the flanks of enemy melee. I knew I wasn't going to win, but I sure as hell did as much damage as possible
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Jun 2, 2016 18:59
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madmac posted:I don't like building Great Weapon Quarrelers for real armies, but the garrison version you get are kind of hilarious just because Orc Warbosses love to charge right into them and get murdered. Plus they're decent in defensive sieges generally where being able to hold a wall in a pinch is a more useful thing. Hmm thinking on this, any greatweapon unit of any race just feels less survivable, but maybe they are best used for taking walls then where theres not much range fire or that much mobility to be flanked? I was thinking on what toasterwarrior said and basically what he said about the dwarfs can be applied to all of them, just in different ways, empire can also use ranged flanking, or they can use cav, vampires can use any number of monster or cav unit instead of greatweapon graveguards and they will most likely be more effective.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:01
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Has anyone else noticed that almost every other Vampire Counts and Empire Lord/Hero is named Gunther or Gunter? Getting a bit sick of this.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:04
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Gejnor posted:Hmm thinking on this, any greatweapon unit of any race just feels less survivable, but maybe they are best used for taking walls then where theres not much range fire or that much mobility to be flanked? I like greatweapon graveguards. 
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Jun 2, 2016 19:06
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Yah great weapons kinda get the same shaft slayers/hammerers get, and that's with the lack of armor and missile resistance the shields give everyone else they just tend to take a shitload of damage compared to the extra AP they put out. Also the AI knows to shoot at low armor targets with artillery, Grimgors doom divers will literally always fire at Thorgrims free hammerers in those early battles I've noticed.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:06
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Deified Data posted:Hmm, had my first castle siege and thought I'd try it without siege weapons. It didn't go well. They take so long to build, though. Do they tip the balance enough to be worth camping several turns for? Its not that bad, i prefer to autobattle sieges because they are really boring. You only need the siege towers since the ram is really slow and by the time to ever gets to the door, it will already be broken down.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:11
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Anybody got some good tips for early game Greenskins when you have to fight dwarves? Them having armor on everything while you have no access to AP besides your one unit of Black Orks makes them pretty hard to crack in the early game. Is the solution just to rush tech Boar Boyz as quickly as possible?
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Jun 2, 2016 19:11
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Man, empire versus high level dwarves is such a switch in tactics. The whole game I was stomping with largely state troops, but as soon as they throw tier 2/3 infantry stacks at them, they just gun you down with quarrelers and blasting charges while longbeards/hammerers hold your blobs in place. I'm guessing adding in a bunch of cavalry will help tip the balance, but they've definitely been the toughest challenge for me in the game so far. "He headbutted me in the groin!" is the greatest unit comment I've ever heard.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:11
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Gejnor posted:Hmm thinking on this, any greatweapon unit of any race just feels less survivable, but maybe they are best used for taking walls then where theres not much range fire or that much mobility to be flanked? Greatweapons are less survivable but better at killing, it's pretty much an across the board trade-off but it can be very worthwhile if you know what you're doing. Chaos Warriors/Chosen with Greatweapons are vastly better against dwarves than the regular versions even though they give up shields because all that dwarf armor makes AP damage incredible. While Greatweapons are best used as flanking units, it's important to remember that they always beat equivalent heavy infantry with hand weapons, even in a head to head battle. Grave Guard with Greatweapons beat the poo poo out of Grave Guard with shields, which means they can easily collapse the center and allow different tactical options than the more defensive shield version. If you want a good rule of thumb, Greatweapon units are for offensive strategies, while Handweapon/shield units are for defensive/holding tactics. If you want an infantry unit to stand in front of your ranged line, get shields. If you want to break through the enemy line and tear into those sweet crunchy ranged units, use greatweapons. Greatweapons are also the best infantry to use as reserves. Put your shields up front, and then if anything threatens to break through or starts getting into your artillery you can use the greatweapons to kill them quickly and put the fire out.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:14
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Chomp8645 posted:
FTFY I think there are still things to be sussed out and or patched. Hell cannons tend to die in buggy ways. Good thing we have more DLC, races, and map to add and fix. Just did empire long victory by turn 113. Make friends with dwarves, crossbowmen kill giants well, always get troop buffing skills on general to level three.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:17
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Chomp8645 posted:Anybody got some good tips for early game Greenskins when you have to fight dwarves? Them having armor on everything while you have no access to AP besides your one unit of Black Orks makes them pretty hard to crack in the early game. Is the solution just to rush tech Boar Boyz as quickly as possible? They haven't got the best Leadership and armoured units yet, so try to break their Morale with flanking and rear charges. A unit or two of Goblin Wolfrider Archers are great for distracting their Ranged and picking off artillery and can even do some charges just for the morale shock penalty if you get the chance. They're super fast and give a nice little morale penalty if fired into the backs of units. Then use them to run down the Dwarves when they flee. Once they start getting units that won't run you should have Boar Boyz ready to deal with it.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:20
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I don't know whether it's the best way to use them, but I also like using grave guards as a second line behind a disposable front of skeleton warriors. The skeletons move faster and soak up missiles/tie up their infantry, then I pour grave guards into the gaps that develop. The great weapon ones seem to get a lot more kills with this approach. Oh also unlike cavalry great weapons units are not large and so aren't vulnerable to halberds and spears. Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 19:22
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William Bear posted:Has anyone else noticed that almost every other Vampire Counts and Empire Lord/Hero is named Gunther or Gunter? Getting a bit sick of this. (Insert Adventure Time penguin joke here) madmac posted:I don't like building Great Weapon Quarrelers for real armies, but the garrison version you get are kind of hilarious just because Orc Warbosses love to charge right into them and get murdered. Plus they're decent in defensive sieges generally where being able to hold a wall in a pinch is a more useful thing. The point of Greatweapons on the tabletop was a boost of strength, but being unable to use your shield in CQC. That's what happens to Spearmen with shields, anyway. If Greatweapon Quarrelers still had the resistance to ranged attacks would they be worth it?
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Jun 2, 2016 19:26
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If Greatweapon Quarrelers still had the missile block they'd be OP. They don't really need a buff, they're just very niche.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:30
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Triskelli posted:The point of Greatweapons on the tabletop was a boost of strength, but being unable to use your shield in CQC. That's what happens to Spearmen with shields, anyway. If Greatweapon Quarrelers still had the resistance to ranged attacks would they be worth it? It's why I figured that GW Quarrellers getting Anti-Large and turning them into essentially weaker Halberdiers sounds like a logical but borderline OP way to buff them. They'd be perfect for your flanks since they can fend off enemy cavalry while shielded Quarrelers can trade shots with enemy ranged units , but such a utilitarian role might cover the Dwarves' greatest weakness too well.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:32
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Grwatweapon Quarrelers saved my butt earlier today when Grimgor attacked one of my settlements with a fairly small force. Everything else died pretty easily, leaving most of my garrison vs him and Da Immortulz. I happily kited the hell out of them with all my quarrelers, getting him down to half hp and wiping out the black orcs to a man. Sadly, he was a lot faster than my Dwarfs and their stunty little legs so I kept feeding him miners and dwarf warriors so I could protect my quarrelers. In the end I ran out of ammo and had to do one glorious mass charge with all my quarrelers, and those great weapons carried the day.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:33
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As Empire, is there a point to getting Reiksgard when I can instead just get Demigryph Knights? I have no problem spamming the latter, but I want to know if there's any advantage to getting the Reiksgard instead.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:34
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What, by the way, counts as large? Are vargheists large? What about crypt horrors? Or are monstrous infantry generally not large? Edit: ^^^ Reiksguard are faster, I believe. Also there's buildings and techs and skills that raise their recruit level.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:34
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madmac posted:If Greatweapon Quarrelers still had the missile block they'd be OP. Yeah if they retained the missile block but had that extra melee skill and AP from GW you could flat out replace warriors with them. Quarrelers with great weapons are in a weird spot but now that I think about it they make a lot of sense against Chaos and VC which don't have any real ranged threat but like to hammer through your front line with monsters all the time.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:35
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Fangz posted:What, by the way, counts as large? Are vargheists large? What about crypt horrors? Or are monstrous infantry generally not large? Anything larger than infantry I presume. Anything mounted, but not warbeasts like hounds though. I guess further clarification will come in time though.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:36
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Fangz posted:What, by the way, counts as large? Are vargheists large? What about crypt horrors? Or are monstrous infantry generally not large? Cavalry, mounted heroes and monstrous units are all large. I'd guess that goblin cav are large too.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:38
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Doing the Cloak of Molten Fire quest. "Man, those 3 Black Knight units are going to hit my flank. I better send my 2 units of Demi-Gyrph riders to keep the artillery alive." "36 vs 120... Man,I hope I don't lose too many of these guys" 30 seconds later. 120 dead Black Knights, 0 dead Demi-Gryph riders.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:39
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Grognan posted:Anything larger than infantry I presume. Anything mounted, but not warbeasts like hounds though. I guess further clarification will come in time though. It's already clarified in full. The definition is strictly "anything horse-sized or bigger". So look at unit. Is it as big or bigger than a horse? It's large. Smaller than a horse? It's not large. I cannot think of even a single unit in the game I would not be able to classify as not large/large according to this definition. It's quite clear.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:40
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