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Mange Mite posted:And yet GM is beating them to market with an affordable 200 mile ev by at least several years... Bolt is to this thread as Blue Origin is to the spaceflight thread.
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Jun 2, 2016 01:36
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Platystemon posted:Bolt is to this thread as Blue Origin is to the spaceflight thread. I think a lot of the hate comes from the company going 50% of the way in order to be first, forgetting g that the customers do actually care about the other half of the [car/rocket]. Leaf/volt have their valid strong points and purposes, but the bolt is trying to be the direct competitor to the 3 and fails miserably in order to get there first.
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Jun 2, 2016 01:46
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ilkhan posted:but the bolt is trying to be the direct competitor to the 3 and fails miserably in order to get there first. What exactly does the Bolt "fail miserably" at?
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Jun 2, 2016 02:03
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fknlo posted:What exactly does the Bolt "fail miserably" at?
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Jun 2, 2016 02:11
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ilkhan posted:Leaf/volt have their valid strong points and purposes, but the bolt is trying to be the direct competitor to the 3 and fails miserably in order to get there first. ilkhan posted:Supercharger network, 0-60, price, sales experience, brand cachet... I still think the average transaction price on a Model 3 is going to be SIGNIFICANTLY higher than that on a Bolt. I just don't see them as direct competitors, and I feel that very few people are going to cross shop the two, outside of EV nerds.
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Jun 2, 2016 02:34
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MrYenko posted:I still think the average transaction price on a Model 3 is going to be SIGNIFICANTLY higher than that on a Bolt. I just don't see them as direct competitors, and I feel that very few people are going to cross shop the two, outside of EV nerds.
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Jun 2, 2016 02:47
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Pretty hard to compare with a car that doesn't exist
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Jun 2, 2016 02:57
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ilkhan posted:Oh it certainly will be. But all the stats GM is going to advertise are directly comparable to the 3. This is like when car ads say “More passenger room than <car A>!” / “More cargo room than <car B>!” / “Better fuel economy than <car C>!” I don’t have an encyclopædiac knowledge of your competitors’ cars. For all I know, the advertised car is the second‐worst in every category, but it sounds good.
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Jun 2, 2016 03:05
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MrYenko posted:I still think the average transaction price on a There are so many parallels. I want to see a venn diagram of Model 3 preorder holders, macbook users, and whole foods customers.
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Jun 2, 2016 03:10
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ilkhan posted:Oh it certainly will be. But all the stats GM is going to advertise are directly comparable to the 3. Really now, half the fun of the Model 3 is that it's basically practical for cross-country travel (far from parity with gasoline, but still a great leap ahead of any other pure EV). This could make it way more marketable to people who wouldn't have the space for both an electric car and a gasoline car. GM, meanwhile, has officially stated that they have no interest in funding fast-charging stations: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101774_gm-wont-fund-ccs-fast-charging-sites-for-2017-chevy-bolt-ev And the fact that they have no answer to Tesla's autopilot (for the Bolt, at least) can't help matters either.
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Jun 2, 2016 03:11
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Powershift posted:Model 3 preorder holders, macbook users, and whole foods customers. Yes No Sometimes but only for stuff I can't get at the regular grocery store
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Jun 2, 2016 03:22
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Cockmaster posted:And the fact that they have no answer to Tesla's autopilot (for the Bolt, at least) can't help matters either. You do realize that it's all the same off-the-shelf hardware from suppliers like Bosch and Delphi and Mobileye?
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Jun 2, 2016 03:57
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Mange Mite posted:Pretty hard to compare with a car that doesn't exist I hate repeating myself but blugu64 posted:That doesn't count because reasons
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Jun 2, 2016 05:19
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Elon Musk at CodeCon just strongly implied that autopilot is going to be standard on the 3.
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Jun 2, 2016 05:38
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Arkane posted:Elon Musk at CodeCon just strongly implied that autopilot is going to be standard on the 3. They've already said autopilot will be standard, but extended features like the lane changing or auto park will be locked behind a pay wall. All the hardware will be there, but you'll have to pay extra to have it turned on. With their pre-order poo poo, and now DLC, i'm surprised they aren't offering pre-order bonuses, or a season pass for future software additions.
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Jun 2, 2016 06:03
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Powershift posted:They've already said autopilot will be standard, but extended features like the lane changing or auto park will be locked behind a pay wall. Sorry if I wasn't clear...based on what he just said, the implication is that autonomous driving will be standard. He said there will be a big event announcing their plans on this by the end of the year, and they will do the "obvious thing" with a smile on his face. Seems like it'd be weird to have a big event to announce that major parts of it are behind a paywall, but that's just my read on the situation.
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Jun 2, 2016 06:19
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A hydrogen commut-o-matic, I really like this. Interesting business model as well. (particularly his point from 11:50, which is so difficult for robber barons to understand) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utmkddBFUg0 So British engineering. Oddball layout, slight eccentric, aristocratic air over the boss and the steering wheel out of alignment.
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Jun 2, 2016 07:53
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Cockmaster posted:Really now, half the fun of the Model 3 is that it's basically practical for cross-country travel (far from parity with gasoline, but still a great leap ahead of any other pure EV). This could make it way more marketable to people who wouldn't have the space for both an electric car and a gasoline car. Didn't Tesla just say you were going to have to pay extra money to use the Supercharger network with the Model 3?
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Jun 2, 2016 13:34
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Didn't Tesla just say you were going to have to pay extra money to use the Supercharger network with the Model 3? That statement does not contradict his. The supercharger system is completely in its own class when it comes to distribution, ease of use and charging time. If you pay per use, or as an expensive option (S60) or as en expensive option you can't deselect (S85), it's still the only system that enables easy electric cross country travel.
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Jun 2, 2016 14:17
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No sane person is going to drive any EV cross country. I don't know why people even care about this. At the speed I drive that means charging every 2 hours. No thank you. Also good luck charging at Grandma's house that is still on knob and tube when you get there. She is on a fixed income you bastards!
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Jun 2, 2016 15:26
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Elephanthead posted:No sane person is going to drive any EV cross country. I don't know why people even care about this. At the speed I drive that means charging every 2 hours. No thank you. Also good luck charging at Grandma's house that is still on knob and tube when you get there. She is on a fixed income you bastards! Not sure why you decide to phrase this as some hypothetical future scenario when the Model S has been out for four years, many people bought it specifically for long range driving and people have been taking them on holiday all the time. Isn't travelling with the car a big reason for owning one? Loads of Norwegians drive them to Spain, which roundtrip is longer than LA to NY. And just because you want to limit yourself to some highly specific scenario of what cross country driving entails doesn't mean that other people are insane for doing it differently. People leapfrog supercharger to supercharger (charge when you can, not when you have to) and combine them with short breaks for bathroom, lunch, sightseeing, a nap, etc. You don't have to stop for very long, at the highest rates the supercharger adds more than 330 miles of range per hour of charging. When you're there you can totally charge from grandma's plug. It will take a day and a half from 0 to 100% and at my local rates it would cost $5. I'd probably be nice and get her $10 of groceries.
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Jun 2, 2016 16:00
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I think the Bolt is pretty clearly aimed at multiple car households. 200 miles is enough to be non-limiting in the average day with a very robust cushion. In theory, Chevrolet already sells you a product if you are really concerned about range. It is a little silly to me to compare an essentially production car with a prototype just because there's a shitload of preorders on it. The Model 3 looks better on paper, but who the gently caress knows?
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Jun 2, 2016 16:10
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Ola posted:A hydrogen commut-o-matic, I really like this. Interesting business model as well. (particularly his point from 11:50, which is so difficult for robber barons to understand) The thing that concerns me about that car is how it would handle hills. Sure you can get up to speed on capacitors but what happens when you hit a longish hill and they run dry? Do you chug up the hill on your 11hp motor or does it do some on the fly charging of the caps to keep it boosted?
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Jun 2, 2016 16:10
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Squibbles posted:The thing that concerns me about that car is how it would handle hills. Sure you can get up to speed on capacitors but what happens when you hit a longish hill and they run dry? Do you chug up the hill on your 11hp motor or does it do some on the fly charging of the caps to keep it boosted? Good point. Also, 60 mph freeway with 30 mph headwind would suck. You couldn't use excess hydrogen to charge the capacitors if you've maxed the fuel cell already.
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Jun 2, 2016 16:15
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I think the Bolt is pretty clearly aimed at multiple car households. 200 miles is enough to be non-limiting in the average day with a very robust cushion. In theory, Chevrolet already sells you a product if you are really concerned about range. As does my 70D (215 miles actually). Which is a known quantity. GM on the other hand... I've driven my fair share and will not again. The level at which my porsche and now tesla exceed even their luxury brands is shocking.
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Jun 2, 2016 17:01
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Your 70D costs twice as much as a Bolt, though. Data doesn't back up the Tesla as being reliable, and the build quality is still pretty bad. What Tesla has done is very impressive, but I don't see why everyone feels the need to give them a pass on everything and expect the ultimate upside of all predictions and statements to be true. Nobody does that with any other OEM. edit: I expect build quality on the Bolt to be significantly better than the Model S, and even if it just the same, it's half the price.
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Jun 2, 2016 17:21
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Indeed, the Model S was just ranked 5th worst reliable car by TrueDelta. Sad to see the i3 topping that list too: https://twitter.com/rrgarver/status/738380172026466304
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Jun 2, 2016 17:23
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drgitlin posted:Indeed, the Model S was just ranked 5th worst reliable car by TrueDelta. Sad to see the i3 topping that list too: https://twitter.com/rrgarver/status/738380172026466304 Wrong tweet? 
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Jun 2, 2016 17:33
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It almost seems like a lot of people in this thread just like to poo poo on GM for no reason!
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Jun 2, 2016 17:38
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Powershift posted:There are so many parallels. I want to see a venn diagram of Model 3 preorder holders, macbook users, and whole foods customers. I slept overnight in front of the Tesla store for my Model 3 preorder, I installed Ubuntu and Windows on a Macbook I was given for work and would never buy one myself, and I hate whole foods because I don't enjoy lighting money on fire  But I know I'm kind of a weirdo. I wonder how much of that Prius set that has a similar venn diagram will be moving to Model 3s, like will it be the new car for the the stereotypical Liberal wuss that likes to look like a good person but won't bother to change any habits or do anything more difficult than affix an NPR bumper sticker to their car, or is plugging in at night still just too much to ask?
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Jun 2, 2016 17:46
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Throatwarbler posted:It almost seems like a lot of people in this thread just like to poo poo on GM for no reason! It's weird, GM has given us PLENTY of reasons to poo poo on it, but this thread is attacking the Bolt. 
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Jun 2, 2016 17:47
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Can we get some Calvin pissing on a Chevy/Tesla logo (and maybe getting electrocuted from it) decals made up?
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Jun 2, 2016 18:12
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Linedance posted:Can we get some Calvin pissing on a Chevy/Tesla logo (and maybe getting electrocuted from it) decals made up? Not legally you can't, no.
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Jun 2, 2016 18:23
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Michael Scott posted:Wrong tweet? That what I get for phone posting: https://mobile.twitter.com/Tweetermeyer/status/738378780427702273
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Jun 2, 2016 18:36
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Powershift posted:There are so many parallels. I want to see a venn diagram of Model 3 preorder holders, macbook users, and whole foods customers. There is seriously a reality distortion field surrounding Tesla. We had one guy in this thread claim that Teslas were instantly going to take over the taxi industry, despite their poor reliability, high cost, and relatively slow and inflexible charging when compared to fueling at gas stations. Maybe commuters are willing to wait a long time for their cars to charge, but someone for which driving is their livelihood isn't going to like waiting 30 minutes to recharge every 100 miles. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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Jun 2, 2016 18:36
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Elon Musk is as charismatic as a certain Austrian Wait Musk was born in Apartheid South Africa and is libertarian I've put it together guys
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Jun 2, 2016 18:58
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Tesla is amazing in that they're the first ground-up car manufacturer that sells cars in the developed world since Hyundai / Kia and they've certainly advanced much faster than either of those companies managed.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:00
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silence_kit posted:There is seriously a reality distortion field surrounding Tesla. Even a rabid fanboy like me has to admit that. Their fundamental drivetrain is very reliable, but all the added complexity drags it down. Not to mention all the issues with basic car stuff like making a sunroof or taillight casing waterproof. And OF COURSE the stupid falcon doors on the Model X weren't going to amazingly sense their surroundings perfectly.  https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/crunch-falcon-wing-doors-fail-to-sense-obstacle.68268/ I'm glad they somehow managed to stick with simple(r) manual door handles on the Model 3, but it's like Elon Musk can't help himself, he needs to cram some swooshy gee-wiz Jetsons bullshit in there. But the basic stuff like this: silence_kit posted:Maybe commuters are willing to wait a long time for their cars to charge obviously works. The long time a commuter "waits" for a charge is called "work" or "sleep". Also, there's a couple of Model S taxis in my city, but they haven't caught on that big. Most taxis run day and night with two shifts so charging time really eats into profits, unless it can be timed to the quiet hours.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:04
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Tesla is amazing in that they're the first ground-up car manufacturer that sells cars in the developed world since Hyundai / Kia and they've certainly advanced much faster than either of those companies managed. No, I agree, they are amazing for doing so well as an upstart in the brutal car industry and launching a pretty cool new product which caught the established carmakers by surprise. That doesn't mean that there isn't a reality distortion field surrounding the brand though.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:11
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Tesla is amazing in that they're the first ground-up car manufacturer that sells cars in the developed world since Hyundai / Kia and they've certainly advanced much faster than either of those companies managed. Most of that is due to the finance side. No way you're getting money to start a car company without some gimmick to tie into the tech bubble where they just throw money away, other thsn maybe nationalist politics government money.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:18
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