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MeinPanzer posted:I know a lot of people like the ARC, but it breaks so many of the principles that make Star Wars ships look great - a neat, clean silhouette; a balanced profile; mostly hard edges and points; and weapons that are proportionate and not particularly prominent. It just looks like the result of someone really trying to create a distinct-looking-but-still-recognizable X-Wing prototype instead of something that might have organically developed into the X-Wing. Star Wars is pulp sci fi dude. You just made these design rules up, they are true for literally no existing ships. ARC was in clone wars and the prequels.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:15
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Eimi posted:And the Viper is amazing, and also probably explains why I love the drat E-Wing so much. If anything the E-Wing's problem is that it doesn't look enough like the Viper. I'm actually thinking of picking up some 1/270 Vipers off shapeways to use as proxies, though that would run into the issue of my inability to paint 
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Jun 3, 2016 04:18
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All I want is a TIE/sf that costs 22 or less. Ideally 19.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:19
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Some Numbers posted:All I want is a TIE/sf that costs 22 or less. Based on the cost difference between Soontir and an Alpha Squadron Pilot, 19 would be a reasonable starting point for a PS1. 20 is more likely, 21 is entirely possible.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:22
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Strobe, still no word from De Rol Le, FYI.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:24
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Some Numbers posted:All I want is a TIE/sf that costs 22 or less. I want a Missile upgrade that gives you a crew slot.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:27
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Strobe posted:I would also be totally okay with a Clone Wars era Y-wing model. It'd be the perfect ship for an Astromech-slot Chopper too.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:32
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Strobe posted:Based on the cost difference between Soontir and an Alpha Squadron Pilot, 19 would be a reasonable starting point for a PS1. 20 is more likely, 21 is entirely possible. Lowest SF PS is 3, so I'm just crossing my fingers. Admiral Joeslop posted:I want a Missile upgrade that gives you a crew slot. I'm in.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:34
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The thing I'm most excited for this wave is the R3 Astromech. Thank you for putting two in the ARC pack, FFG. That makes it a day one purchase for me. Everything else is pretty unexciting from my perspective, though.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:36
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Strobe posted:Based on the cost difference between Soontir and an Alpha Squadron Pilot, 19 would be a reasonable starting point for a PS1. 20 is more likely, 21 is entirely possible. This is a ship with T-70 X-wing durability and firepower with an auxiliary arc and a system slot. I would be surprised if it's any less than 23.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:40
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Panzeh posted:This is a ship with T-70 X-wing durability and firepower with an auxiliary arc and a system slot. I would be surprised if it's any less than 23. The PS 9 is 28 points. There's no goddamn way that a PS 3 is going to be only five points less than that. If we're looking at the T-70 in particular, the difference between the PS 9 pilot and the PS 4 pilot is 7 points. If the gulf is much more extreme than that for a TIE/sf I'll be shocked. 19 is possible, 20 is fairly likely.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:43
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Strobe posted:The PS 9 is 28 points. There's no goddamn way that a PS 3 is going to be only five points less than that. If we're looking at the T-70 in particular, the difference between the PS 9 pilot and the PS 4 pilot is 7 points. If the gulf is much more extreme than that for a TIE/sf I'll be shocked. If you look at that statline 19-20 is loving ridiculous. You would be getting a ship that is better than a T-70 X-wing for 4-5 points less. There are ships where the gulf between the top pilot and the bottom pilot is 6 points and 23 might be a touch underpriced but it's a lot more reasonable than 19-20. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 04:50
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Strobe posted:If the R3 Astromech actually generates evade tokens in a non-ridiculous manner, generic E-wing pilots might make a comeback on the strength of two evade tokens per turn plus FCS on a 3 attack/3 agility ship. I hope it's a 1 point personal Robo-Jan Ors.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:53
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Panzeh posted:If you look at that statline 19-20 is loving ridiculous. A ship that doesn't have boost and can't take autothrusters and has 2 attack (I know there's a 0-point title involved, but the statline is 2) is absolutely justified in being 19-20 points. If the dial is merely decent, then the TIE/sf competes neatly with a naked Y-wing. Personally I think that title should be two or three points at minimum, but clearly FFG disagrees.
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Jun 3, 2016 04:59
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If we're talking about X-Wings, Wedge is 29 and Rookie Pilot is 21.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:05
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Strobe posted:A ship that doesn't have boost and can't take autothrusters and has 2 attack (I know there's a 0-point title involved, but the statline is 2) is absolutely justified in being 19-20 points. If the dial is merely decent, then the TIE/sf competes neatly with a naked Y-wing. You have to value the title though, because it's clearly just rules text and intended to always be used. So the TIE SF should be evaluated as a T-70 with the option to attack twice in one turn and trading some abilities around. The biggest is losing autothrusters. If it's less than the T-70 than just gently caress this gay earth, etc.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:08
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Some Numbers posted:If we're talking about X-Wings, Wedge is 29 and Rookie Pilot is 21. On every ship that has a PS 9, the difference between the PS 9 cost and the cheapest is either 8 points or 9 points (Falcon doesn't count because ORS is terrible). Soontir is 9, Wedge is 8, Vader is 8, Dengar is 8, Poe is 9, Talonbane is 8. If the PS 9 TIE/sf is 28 points, then odds are pretty good on the PS 3 being 19-21. At most.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:08
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Strobe posted:A ship that doesn't have boost and can't take autothrusters and has 2 attack (I know there's a 0-point title involved, but the statline is 2) is absolutely justified in being 19-20 points. If the dial is merely decent, then the TIE/sf competes neatly with a naked Y-wing. The 0-point title effectively makes the primary weapon 3. If you ignore the fact that it has an aux arc, it is like a T-70 with barrel roll instead of boost but it has an aux arc. It can't take autothrusters but the system slot is considerably superior to the tech or astromech slots for generics. Just FYI, the difference between Zuckuss and Ruthless Freelancer is 5 points. The 0-point titles are going to be baked into the ships- they're just there to have mechanics for the different arcs so they don't clutter up the pilot cards. If you look at the ARC-170, for example, 29 points is obscenely expensive for a ship that's strictly 2 attack value, even with the auxiliary arc. It's more than generic PWTs. They point them with the titles in mind already. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 05:09
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Wedge Antilles (29) Crack Shot (1) Proton Torpedoes (4) BB-8 (2) Guidance Chips (0) Red Squadron Veteran (26) Crack Shot (1) Proton Torpedoes (4) R2 Astromech (1) Guidance Chips (0) Red Squadron Veteran (26) Crack Shot (1) Proton Torpedoes (4) R2 Astromech (1) Guidance Chips (0) Total: 100 This... this could work...
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Jun 3, 2016 05:09
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Zuckuss is a PS 7, not PS 9. I'm 100% sure you knew that, so I have no idea what relevance that is to a discussion about the likely cost of a PS 3 generic based on the PS 9 pilot's cost of the same ship. EDIT: Also using the Aux arc turns it into two 2-dice attacks, not a single 3 dice attack, likely at different targets. That makes it more similar to a BTL'd up Y-wing with Dorsal Turret than any other ship currently in the game, which is a whopping 21 points.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:10
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Strobe posted:Zuckuss is a PS 7, not PS 9. I'm 100% sure you knew that, so I have no idea what relevance that is to a discussion about the likely cost of a PS 3 generic based on the PS 9 pilot's cost of the same ship. EDIT: Also using the Aux arc turns it into two 2-dice attacks, not a single 3 dice attack, likely at different targets. That makes it more similar to a BTL'd up Y-wing with Dorsal Turret than any other ship currently in the game, which is a whopping 21 points. T-70 X-wing with PS2 and 3-3-3-2 is 24 points. Tie/SF with PS3 is (effectively)3-3-3-2 is 19-20 points(?) FFG has done fixes, but are you out of your mind? These ships were probably not developed that long apart in time. The title makes your primary weapon value 3. It also allows you to fire in both arcs at primary weapon value 2 if you want. The auxiliary arc could be considered basically additional utility to having a primary weapon of 3. Quickdraw has a very marginal pilot ability- it will probably have some FAQ attention paid to it because i'm not sure FFG is going to allow for shots to take place during the activation phase. Aside from that, it will probably trigger once considering his mediocre defense and the lack of imperial shield regen. It would not surprise me if the difference between Quickdraw and the generic were only 5 points. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 05:15
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I almost feel like the opportunity to shoot in the activation phase means Quickdraw would be more powerful at PS8 or even 7, to shoot naked ships and ensure he's not arc-dodged.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:20
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T-70 X-wing with PS9 and 3-2-3-3 is 33 points (+9) TIE/sf with PS9 and 3-2-3-3 is 28 points (+?) PS 9 is pretty goddamn valuable. There's no way that the value added to a TIE/sf is only five points for the privilege, when it costs a T-70 nine. PS 9 pilots are consistently, across every ship where the stats don't change between pilots, eight or nine points more expensive.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:22
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Otisburg posted:I almost feel like the opportunity to shoot in the activation phase means Quickdraw would be more powerful at PS8 or even 7, to shoot naked ships and ensure he's not arc-dodged. Enhanced Scopes. 
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Jun 3, 2016 05:22
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Strobe posted:Enhanced Scopes. Nice. I always forget about that one. Unfortunately, it precludes Electronic Waffles, so you need another way to self-plink a shield.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:24
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Strobe posted:T-70 X-wing with PS9 and 3-2-3-3 is 33 points (+9) PS9 is valuable, but Quickdraw neither has an ability nor the slots or upgrade to leverage it. He doesn't have the ability to regen. He can't take autothrusters, he doesn't have Poe's strong defensive ability. Barrel roll is pretty good, but I have a hunch that his dial is not as green as the original FO which makes PtL less feasible, nor can he evade. Now if Quickdraw is allowed to actually do the thing where he takes a shield damage to shoot before an ace moves, during the activation phase, I would say his ability is ridiculous. However, if it's just a combat phase thing(this will probably be FAQ'd right upon release) his ability is quite weak and he'll get one extra shot out of it before he loses his shields and becomes an ace with no autothrusters or other real defensive shenanigans. Usually when PS3 is the lowest pilot skill, it's because FFG doesn't want to crash the price too low for a ship. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 05:25
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You're insane if you think PS 9 is only worth 5 extra points over PS 3. His ability could be literally blank text, and it'd still be six or seven points over a PS 3. EDIT: if his ability was combat phase only, it'd say "Once per round after defending, if you take one or more shield damage you may immediately perform a free primary weapon attack." It's pretty clearly the first shield lost, period.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:29
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Strobe posted:You're insane if you think PS 9 is only worth 5 extra points over PS 3. His ability could be literally blank text, and it'd still be six or seven points over a PS 3. You're insane if you think 3-2-3-3 is going to be 19-20 points, much less at PS3.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:30
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It's sort of weird to me from a fluff perspective that you can get a pilot of say a TIE Defender with a PS1. Instead of "Delta Squadron Pilot" it should be "Advanced Military Hardware Stolen By Hapless Janitor In Comedy of Errors." Hell, even squints don't seem like something the Imps would waste on absolute dross. Maybe Alpha Squadron Pilots are all admirals kids who are assigned by nepotism rather than merit.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:31
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Yeah, considering that Rookie Pilots are PS2, PS1 Interceptor and Defender pilots don't make much sense.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:34
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Some Numbers posted:Yeah, considering that Rookie Pilots are PS2, PS1 Interceptor and Defender pilots don't make much sense. The academy is just for drinking, not flying.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:36
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Not like the E-Wing generics make that much more sense. The E-Wing is supposed to be designed after the Rebels won and became the Republic so they shouldn't be handing them out to anyone who showed up that day and was breathing. (Also the Xwing generic pilots naming scheme always bothered me and the T-70 did it better, it should've been Red Squad for PS2 and Rogue squad for PS4.)
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Jun 3, 2016 05:38
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Yeah, pretty much anything that you can't picture as some garrison-quality pulled-from-mothballs thing, or in the Empire's case "thrown at the foe heedless of losses" is hard to picture being fielded with the least trained pilots.
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Jun 3, 2016 05:52
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As rough as some of FFGs rules have been and will doubtlessly continue to be, I find it hard to believe that they'd make a pilot like Quickdraw and then hastily errata it to be "in the combat phase only whoops" like they somehow couldn't foresee that being a thing in need of clarification if that was in fact their intent. That's Star Trek Attack Wing levels of not paying attention. Electronic Baffles shenanigans aren't the only way to lose shields during activation, there are plenty of ways for that to happen, and so I'm going to assume that Quickdraw being able to shoot during the movement phase is in fact the way it's supposed to work.
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Jun 3, 2016 06:20
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Jun 3, 2016 07:29
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So wait, who has this stuff already and why when Imp Vets and that Heroes of the Resistance pack aren't even out yet?
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Jun 3, 2016 07:54
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Kai Tave posted:So wait, who has this stuff already and why when Imp Vets and that Heroes of the Resistance pack aren't even out yet? According to the page those photos are from, they're prototypes rather than the real thing.
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Jun 3, 2016 08:10
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Kai Tave posted:As rough as some of FFGs rules have been and will doubtlessly continue to be, I find it hard to believe that they'd make a pilot like Quickdraw and then hastily errata it to be "in the combat phase only whoops" like they somehow couldn't foresee that being a thing in need of clarification if that was in fact their intent. That's Star Trek Attack Wing levels of not paying attention. Electronic Baffles shenanigans aren't the only way to lose shields during activation, there are plenty of ways for that to happen, and so I'm going to assume that Quickdraw being able to shoot during the movement phase is in fact the way it's supposed to work. There's a lotta things that's gonna get FAQ'd if he can do it during the activation phase, then. To be fair, he can't get both baffles and scopes so it takes more finessing to do it- going through rocks most likely unless you want to lose most of the advantages of shooting at that point. I also kinda think the article was rushed out due to the leak and there's a possibility of that being the culprit ala the scum Sabine thing and the shadowcaster pilots. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 11:17
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There's a torp with the action: heading, so Quickdraw may not be the only one able to attack in the activation phase.
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Jun 3, 2016 12:24
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hoiyes posted:There's a torp with the action: heading, so Quickdraw may not be the only one able to attack in the activation phase. It looks like "pick a ship in one of your arcs something something then roll a dice and apply all hit/crit results" rather than an attack, but we'll see what happens.
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Jun 3, 2016 12:26
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