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Suxpool posted:Prince of Fools is def. better than Thorns. My short forensic analysis of his career shows that Ryan took his time with the first book (8-10 years), and when it was a surprise success, he quit his job to write. Smart move! Then, while already making money hand over fist in the self-pub arena, he sold the book rights to a traditional publisher. Bad move! Immense pressure was immediately leveed against him to produce a second novel as quickly as possible to capitalize on the success of the first and to make some sweet sweet revenue for said publishing company. As Gabe Newell is known to say, "These things take time." Ryan's blog posts at the time of the second novel's writing relate his exhaustion, his doubts about some of the choices he made to broaden the story (switching from a single PoV to three new PoVs). It seems he was worried about finishing the story too quickly, given the place the first book ended, over-compensated, and lost a lot of the things that people loved about Blood Song. There are many signs throughout the second book of a quick, haphazard write. Perhaps the worst of these is the switch to progressive tense for every action scene, which eliminates any possible sentence structure variation, and makes the prose wooden and difficult to read. The third book was released, and is widely considered a continuation of the second with all its flaws, but even more rushed--unsurprisingly, given the word count of these books and their release schedule.
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Jun 4, 2016 01:07
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ZekeNY posted:Hates himself more than anyone else? Check. bremer is a terrible goon (who is ironically more self aware than many people on this forum) throughout most of his activities but as soon as he gets into battle he is absolutely a badass. it's actually refreshing to read him going into battle because he's actually excited and happy whereas for most of the characters combat is suffering.
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Jun 4, 2016 06:15
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Grim Company reminded me a bit of Abercrombie.
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Jun 4, 2016 09:44
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I know it was touched on a page ago, but I still maintain Pratchett is the closest to Abercrombie in my mind. They're different in a lot of obvious ways, but they both have a speedy style, likeable characters, humour and for all Discworld's wackiness it can get into some Real poo poo. Monstrous Regiment (possibly my favourite Discworld story...?) is kind of a proto-The Heroes, now I think about it.
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Jun 4, 2016 10:14
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Finally read Sharp Ends, and have to say that it's a disappointment. Namely because the stories amounted mostly to unsatisfying vignettes, and because it kind of breaks the setting. Javre is just too over-the-top for the world of the story, to the point where the whole principles of the overarching narratives start to falter. The whole point is that heroes are people like Logen NInefingers, Whirrun, and Bremer dan Gorst - monsters and failures. And the dialogue goes from tongue-in-cheek to straight up bad a lot of times.
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Jun 4, 2016 12:24
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She's got her own issues (though less than Logen) and the best part about the character is the reminder that you don't have to be a broken piece of poo poo it's a choice. Her mere existence reinforces how terrible all the people you just named are and how completely monstrous Bayaz is. Which is necessary because people keep forgetting. They're not heroes, they're protagonists. She's a hero.
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Jun 4, 2016 12:38
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Peztopiary posted:She's got her own issues (though less than Logen) and the best part about the character is the reminder that you don't have to be a broken piece of poo poo it's a choice. Her mere existence reinforces how terrible all the people you just named are and how completely monstrous Bayaz is. Which is necessary because people keep forgetting. They're not heroes, they're protagonists. She's a hero. I think she is fairly broken, though. She is a raging alcoholic and appears to binge drink significantly more than the other alcoholics we see in the series. In the two events we see either on screen or see the aftermath of, she loses her magic sword and she loses virtually everything but her magic sword. I think her success as the stories progress (seemingly to be reconciled with the Temple and becoming the first of fifteen) is going to set her up to be an important side character (perhaps the priestess at the Temple of Thond?) in the next series. Regarding similar authors, I've enjoyed Daniel Abraham recently. The style is vastly different, but a lot of the substance is similar. He has several characters who have similarly dry senses of humor and most or all of the motivations are very similar to Abercrombie's characters. Both of his fantasy series (The Long Price Quartet and The Dagger and the Coin) are moderately low fantasy where most of the POV characters have limited or no access to the supernatural bits of the world. The Long Price was incredibly good, though apparently a lot of people didn't like the setting, which is disappointing. The Dagger and the Coin almost seems to be a direct response to a lot of the criticisms of The Long Price and while I thought the first book in the series was decent but not great, I've enjoyed them progressively more as I've read through the series.
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Jun 4, 2016 15:58
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The problem is that there's no pathos or insight - she's basically a cartoon. Maybe the next trilogy will actually make her interesting, but now she's basically Whirrun without any of the satire. Hell, she's Fafhrd without the satire. Kind of missing the point of Fafhrd and Gray Mouser.
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Jun 4, 2016 16:10
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I feel like an in-character reminder that you don't have to be a monster is fine. It's possible that Abercrombie is just at a place where he wants to write that kind of character, he's been doing anti-heroes pretty much his entire career. Javre being awesome doesn't make Whirrun or Logen less cool. It does highlight that most of the people in the setting are choosing to be assholes.
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Jun 4, 2016 17:20
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I'm currently reading The Heroes and it's probably my favorite of his by a long shot, although it probably has the darkest part of any of his books (Aliz Brint being abandoned to rape by the giants.) That scene with the viewpoints switching after every death is pretty great, though.
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Jun 5, 2016 21:16
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Anyone who doesn't think The Heroes is the best of Abercrombie's work is just all kinds of wrong.
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Jun 7, 2016 00:12
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I actually couldn't really get into it at first and almost put it down, but finally started clicking after about 1/4 - 1/3rd through. It ended up being really good but I also really liked BSC and Red Country pretty much just as much so it's hard to say which one is the best.
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Jun 7, 2016 01:48
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Suxpool posted:Anyone who doesn't think The Heroes is the best of Abercrombie's work is just all kinds of wrong. I just finished my re-read of it, and it's really top-notch. I think it's because it has so many different POV characters, and he's so good at getting inside character's heads that's an asset instead of a tremendous clusterfuck. It's used masterfully, too, you're rooting for so many people on both sides that it plays into the whole theme of violence begetting more violence, and that the person against you is just as much of a person with hopes, and dreams, and all that poo poo. It also really sells the guilt all the people who aren't named Bremer feel after they kill someone, since you were rooting for their side a chapter ago.
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Jun 15, 2016 04:55
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That, and it has the most entertaining of characters between Gorst, Tunny, and Craw's dozen.
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Jun 17, 2016 01:50
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I just really like how Joe Abercrombie writes war. Even in the short story relating to The Heroes in Sharp Ends, the moment where the two guys on opposite sides of the war see each other and recognise they don't really want to kill each other and just awkwardly back away...Kinda hope we see more of Wrongside, for that matter. The only thing holding The Heroes back from being my clear favourite is that it feels a little padded in places, a little overlong to me, and the Calder arc feels like a bit of a retread at least with regards to Bayaz. But if not the most well-rounded, I think it's Abercrombie's most interesting book.
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Jun 17, 2016 19:04
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I like Calder a lot though - I appreciate an author turning around a previously-hated character. Calder is the smartest dude in the north short of Bayaz.
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Jun 17, 2016 19:10
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Chamberk posted:I'm currently reading The Heroes and it's probably my favorite of his by a long shot, although it probably has the darkest part of any of his books (Aliz Brint being abandoned to rape by the giants.) That scene with the viewpoints switching after every death is pretty great, though. Suxpool posted:Anyone who doesn't think The Heroes is the best of Abercrombie's work is just all kinds of wrong. To my mind, that scene really benefits from his experience as a film editor. Whole thing reads as one inunterrupted action sequence. Reminds me of something from Guy Ritchie's oeuvre.
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Jun 18, 2016 08:06
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I like Calder a lot though - I appreciate an author turning around a previously-hated character. Calder is the smartest dude in the north short of Bayaz. I liked how Calder's plotting worked in The Heroes. It wasn't some ridiculously intricate plan depending on a series of improbable events or foresight bordering on precognitive. It was just knowing what an intelligent person observing how other people interact might know, and he spoke in the right people's ears at the right time, coupled with a bit of luck.
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Jun 18, 2016 12:21
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I actually just got around to reading The Heroes for the first time recently too, and yeah, that Casualties chapter was amazing. One other thing Abercrombie does that I can’t recall ever seeing in other fantasy fiction is constantly pointing out the danger of friendly fire, sometimes because some characters are berserkers, but mostly just because of how hectic and confusion a medieval battlefield could get. That scene with that poor guy accidentally killing his sergeant with a misfired crossbow bolt…ouch. And Gorst is absolutely terrible and hilarious to read. I love the fact that he was built up in previous books as the ultimate badass man-of-few-words warrior who’s maybe a bit eccentric, then when we get to see things from his PoV it turns out he’s a massively insecure, self-hating dork, complete with a schoolboy crush on his *~perfect unattainable beauty~* who he can barely talk to.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:27
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Blastedhellscape posted:And Gorst is absolutely terrible and hilarious to read. I love the fact that he was built up in previous books as the ultimate badass man-of-few-words warrior who’s maybe a bit eccentric, then when we get to see things from his PoV it turns out he’s a massively insecure, self-hating dork, complete with a schoolboy crush on his *~perfect unattainable beauty~* who he can barely talk to. Gorst is like what everyone who reads fantasy novels fears becoming but also really good at murder.
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Jun 18, 2016 21:06
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Just a quick public service announcement that for some reason the hardcover version of Sharp Ends is on amazon right for about the same price as the paperback (in Germany its even cheaper than the paperback!), and its legit as I just received my hardcover copy with the nice UK cover for only 12 Euros and change.
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Jun 21, 2016 18:35
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I'm really kicking myself for waiting so long to start the stand-alone books so long after finishing the First Law trilogy. Last night I finished Best Served Cold, and I just had a few questions I was afraid to Google for fear of spoiling the other one-off books. Does Shenkt appear in original trilogy at all? I was afraid I missed some huge connection or if his past association with Bayez something that wasn't in the first 3 books. Kind of a followup question, but I remember the apprentice to Bayez, the one with heterochromia - and I though he betrayed Bazez in The Last Argument of Kings? It kind of surprised me to see him working for him again. My memory is terrible.
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Sep 13, 2016 21:25
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Robot Danger posted:I'm really kicking myself for waiting so long to start the stand-alone books so long after finishing the First Law trilogy. Last night I finished Best Served Cold, and I just had a few questions I was afraid to Google for fear of spoiling the other one-off books. Nope, Shenkt is new to BSC. Sulfur was loyal to Bayaz in the trilogy, though he was no longer an apprentice. His apprentice in the trilogy, Malacus Quai, was killed/replaced by Tolomei and tried to kill him.
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Sep 13, 2016 21:31
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Sulfur is specifically the apprentice with heterochromia, and is an Eater. Malacus Quai was basically a normal person until replaced by Tolomei the vengeful murder-ghost, which made for an oddly unmemorable sequence.
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Sep 16, 2016 12:51
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While we don't see him in the trilogy, wasn't he one of the 100 words? Seems like he went his own way after Bayaz nuked most of them. Also! I noticed there's a Joe Abercrombie quote in Civ6, something about black iron making the best knives.
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Oct 12, 2016 15:25
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Darkrenown posted:While we don't see him in the trilogy, wasn't he one of the 100 words? Seems like he went his own way after Bayaz nuked most of them.
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Oct 12, 2016 16:10
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Sorry, I was talking about Shenkt.
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Oct 14, 2016 12:51
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He was Bayaz's apprentice and then for some reason turned against him, at least if I remember right. Him and sulfur knew each other well.
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Oct 14, 2016 15:00
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:He was Bayaz's apprentice and then for some reason turned against him, at least if I remember right. Him and sulfur knew each other well. He decided he was done kneeling. When? Who knows.
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Oct 16, 2016 17:18
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Suxpool posted:Anyone who doesn't think The Heroes is the best of Abercrombie's work is just all kinds of wrong. I loving love Edit: and Calder and Finree are two of my favorite characters anywhere. That last scene with Calder and his brother. 
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Oct 19, 2016 01:18
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Recently reread Red Country, and today I saw a candidate for Nine-fingers if they ever turn it into a movie:
Hughmoris fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Oct 20, 2016 |
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Oct 20, 2016 03:56
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Hughmoris posted:Recently reread Red Country, and today I saw a candidate for Nine-fingers if they ever turn it into a movie: Only if he shaves all of it off halfway through.
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Oct 20, 2016 20:52
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Darkrenown posted:Also! I noticed there's a Joe Abercrombie quote in Civ6, something about black iron making the best knives. "The best steel doesn't always shine the brightest."
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Oct 21, 2016 02:43
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So if I just finished Last Argument and I'm really, really pissed about basically everything, should I keep reading? Like, in the next few books, does anyone stand the gently caress up for themselves? Buck the political masterminds and get even a pyrrhic victory for it? Or do all the books end with the protagonists making GBS threads themselves in pain and surrendering like Jezal?
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Dec 3, 2016 07:17
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Pick up Best Served Cold.
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Dec 3, 2016 07:23
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ThirdEmperor posted:Like, in the next few books, does anyone stand the gently caress up for themselves? Buck the political masterminds and get even a pyrrhic victory for it? Or do all the books end with the protagonists making GBS threads themselves in pain and surrendering like Jezal? Yes, yes, and sometimes. Frankly though it sounds like Abercrombie may not be a writer you'd enjoy. neongrey posted:Pick up Best Served Cold. Even there it's going to depend on what characters you focus on.
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Dec 3, 2016 07:24
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To be clear I'm fine with the grim outlook of his world, less fine with how many threads were dropped or answered with 'because'. Tolomei and the poor apprentice stand out as two interesting threads that both ended in the lamest way. Quai has some mysterious grudge against his master suddenly, there's been hints all the way that Bayaz killed her for some unknown reason. After an entire book of setup, 'he killed her just because he sucks' and 'she came back to eat Quai' were disappointing. Far more so than the mean spirited but plausible tragedy of Marshal West.
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Dec 3, 2016 07:36
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ThirdEmperor posted:To be clear I'm fine with the grim outlook of his world, less fine with how many threads were dropped or answered with 'because'. Tolomei and the poor apprentice stand out as two interesting threads that both ended in the lamest way. Quai has some mysterious grudge against his master suddenly, there's been hints all the way that Bayaz killed her for some unknown reason. I think you will like Abercrombie's post-TFL stuff. No more dropped/weak plot threads like the ones you mentioned, while he improves on the stuff that he does best.
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Dec 5, 2016 20:47
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Yeah. The First Law trilogy is a little rough, and Abercrombie didn't really his his stride until maybe midway through the second book. I loved Last Argument of Kings, but there are some places where it seems like he was cleaning up poorly thought-through plot threads from the first book. His standalone novels are much better. And a mild spoiler for Best Served Cold: It does have a part where a regular mortal actually gets to flip off the rear end in a top hat immortal-super-wizards who secretly rule the world, although she does it with the assistance of another immortal-super-wizard-vampire guy. Still, it was pretty satisfying to see. One thing I really liked about the First Law setting was how the existence of magic and wizards got taken to its logical conclusion. If there are people walking around who can blow you up with their minds and go into super-slow-motion bullet time, they're inevitably going to be the ones who really call the shots, even if King Beardy Guy III is sitting on a throne somewhere pretending to rule.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:08
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I just read that mild spoiler and don't remember really any of that apart from who the "she" refers to. I think that means I can read the series again and have it feel pretty fresh. Woo for my terrible memory.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:48
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