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Chantilly Say posted:Most people just aren't enough of an rear end in a top hat do do that, unfortunately. It takes a very high degree of conceit to immediately say "yes, what I said was bad and I understand why, and I'm going to keep it in mind in the future." I think you might be confused about the words "rear end in a top hat" and "conceit"
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Jun 5, 2016 17:36
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Crain posted:So now there's a "tell all" book coming out about the Clinton White House (again, 16 years later) by a Secret Service agent who says his detail was being posted outside the Oval Office. Secret service officer, not agent. Officers check bags and guard the grounds. They are the guys dressed like cops. Agents are the guys with wild security clearances that shadow the 1st family. More made-up nonsense.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:37
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idiotsavant posted:I think you might be confused about the words "rear end in a top hat" and "conceit" Most people aren't full of themselves enough to take the active, aggressive response to being called a racist ("actually yeah that was wrong" etc). They naturally fall into the defensive "no, no I'm not" response, which only works when you can retreat into the company of people who agree with you (racists).
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Jun 5, 2016 17:40
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Darth Walrus posted:You... you have read Matt's post history in the past few threads, right? If you're going out to bat for someone who you think has been unfairly shut out of the conversation for a single possibly-racist statement, you might want to pick someone other than the proud, open racist. I just think tu quoque arguments are incredibly boring and worthless. If David Duke posted a claim that lower interstate speeds save lives, I'd hope the "posted speed limits aren't significant" camp could come up with something better than "gently caress you, you're a racist, if you're in favor of it, it must be because it hurts minorities."
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Jun 5, 2016 17:43
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Chantilly Say posted:But, what else can someone be expected to do? Racism is The Worst, so if you get accused of it you're pressured to either say a) "No, I'm not one of them" or b) "Yes, I am a terrible piece of human garbage" and most people aren't going to pick B. It's actually scary how easy it is to just admit you goofed and move on. A few years back I was in the US, at a barbecue to meet my fiance's parents. They had several people over, and there was a couple from the Philippines . Since we were the only foreigner-born people around, we gravitated together and started talking. At one point I asked if they felt the local culture was a big shift from the 'oriental' one they lived in as a child. The guy sort of made a face and they pointed out that it was a charged word that wasn't used anymore. I apologized and said I hadn't know, and we just kept on talking, including about rather sensitive matters. Guess I could have pitched a fit about PC culture, maybe even made some Youtube videos about it to bilk cash from butthurt losers. Been Thunderf00t before there was a Thunderfoot,.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:45
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Indeed, sir. i'm not very good at fitting in to your society. Luckily i've got a whole society of my own where i'm happy and doing great. This is not allowed. After Trump is defeated and his supporters suppressed, all must pledge fealty to multiculturalism and gender fluidity.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:47
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Chantilly Say posted:Most people aren't full of themselves enough to take the active, aggressive response to being called a racist ("actually yeah that was wrong" etc). It is literally the opposite. Most people are too self-centered to consider a viewpoint that diverges considerably from their own or that of their immediate social circle. You can only fix the problem if don't have an arrogant perspective on the validity of your own beliefs.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:49
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Oh my god someone post some stupid poo poo about American politics please!
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Jun 5, 2016 17:50
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Chantilly Say posted:Most people aren't full of themselves enough to take the active, aggressive response to being called a racist ("actually yeah that was wrong" etc). They naturally fall into the defensive "no, no I'm not" response, which only works when you can retreat into the company of people who agree with you (racists). So we should just quit trying all together then? What exactly is your end goal here? There is nothing even remotely new or revelatory in anything you're saying. People don't like to admit they're wrong and they resist change. Welp, better give up on this whole social progress thing because if it's not easy then it's not worth doing.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:50
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:You can only fix the problem if don't have an arrogant perspective on the validity of your own beliefs. I think this could also be worded as "Weak-willed people can be easily manipulated by peer pressure instead of seeking new peers that accept them for who they are"
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Jun 5, 2016 17:51
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idiotsavant posted:It's pretty lame that people have to put out the softest of the soft pedals to tell their purported allies that they're saying messed up poo poo without having said allies blow the gently caress up about it. Have you talked to a real person before? Because people don't like to be called bad. A well-meaning person blundering their way into a position that's racist but they probably don't understand how and why(like, say, being upset over theoretical welfare cheats or being OK with the idea of profiling to reduce crime, or thinking the confederate flag is fine) will react very badly and will probably come out of a conversation going "man gently caress that guy" if you say "that's racist," instead of going into detail and taking them to that position. I know what I'm saying is to spend a lot of time and energy talking to someone about opinions they have that you think are vile, but this is how you change people's minds on an individual level. You learn about them, understand them, and figure out how to use that knowledge to get them to understand you and your points, which hopefully will win them over. Of course, you can't do this over twitter and there's nothing internet politicos think is worthwhile if it can't be done in 140 characters, but if you don't take the time to understand someone you'll never get them to change their mind.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:52
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there wolf posted:So we should just quit trying all together then? What exactly is your end goal here? There is nothing even remotely new or revelatory in anything you're saying. People don't like to admit they're wrong and they resist change. Welp, better give up on this whole social progress thing because if it's not easy then it's not worth doing. Oh no, don't get me wrong--more people should absolutely use that response. I just totally understand why a lot of people don't.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:53
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SSNeoman posted:Oh my god someone post some stupid poo poo about American politics please! I like that people have this reaction in this thread every time people talk about racism or gun violence, two of the biggest unsolved problems in American politics with the least progress in four decades.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:54
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SSNeoman posted:Oh my god someone post some stupid poo poo about American politics please! http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/dem-primaries/282237-puerto-rico-democratic-party-denies-wrongdoing-in-primary quote:The head of the Democratic Party of Puerto Rico slammed Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign on Saturday for accusing it of unfairly denying poll workers access to prisons to help inmates vote. We're so close 
Boon fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 18:00
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:I like that people have this reaction in this thread every time people talk about racism or gun violence, two of the biggest unsolved problems in American politics with the least progress in four decades. 
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Jun 5, 2016 18:02
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:I like that people have this reaction in this thread every time people talk about racism or gun violence, two of the biggest unsolved problems in American politics with the least progress in four decades. All I see here is a (admittedly justified) dogpile on a poster. I do not see any discussion.
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Jun 5, 2016 18:12
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So now Trump is saying that Muslim judges can't be trusted not to be biased. Newt loving Gingrich is now calling out Trump saying that he is making a huge mistake.
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Jun 5, 2016 18:46
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So now Trump is saying that Muslim judges can't be trusted not to be biased. RIP Newt's VP nod.
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Jun 5, 2016 18:49
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My favorite part of this is that the trucker/Klansman is in the foreground, implying that Kelly added him in in a second draft at the demands of his editor.
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Jun 5, 2016 18:49
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SSNeoman posted:Oh my god someone post some stupid poo poo about American politics please! Shimrra Jamaane posted:So now Trump is saying that Muslim judges can't be trusted not to be biased. Good news! Trump is still an absolute loving moron. Like I said, this is why I'm not worried about Hillary v Trump.
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Jun 5, 2016 18:53
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Chantilly Say posted:Most people aren't full of themselves enough to take the active, aggressive response to being called a racist ("actually yeah that was wrong" etc). They naturally fall into the defensive "no, no I'm not" response, which only works when you can retreat into the company of people who agree with you (racists). Yeah I don't get this - arrogant people don't admit they're wrong, they double down. Most racists in this country are soft racists who don't consider themselves racists and would naturally deny it if pressed, while the rest are open and proud about it and would never admit to being wrong. The people you're calling assholes in your scenario are humble, well-rounded sorts who aren't afraid to learn from life experience. I have no idea where you get conceited out of that.
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Jun 5, 2016 18:57
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fade5 posted:https://twitter.com/FaceTheNation/status/739436549842964481 Now somebody ask him if it would be a problem if the judge was an unattractive woman. 
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Jun 5, 2016 18:58
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This is such perfectly timed and executed self-immolation that I'm really tempted by the Hillary plant conspiracy theory. He carefully started with this poo poo* only after the GOPe had bent the knee, and now he's feeding all the ammunition possible to Clinton, who is relishing at the chance, and he's distracting people from the Democratic infighting while letting Clinton be presidential and on the attack. And whenever it's in danger of going away he opens his mouth again. * Edit: Yes, he's been racist all along, but he's getting more and more blatant about it. At this point he's swallowed the dogwhistle.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:02
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Deified Data posted:Yeah I don't get this - arrogant people don't admit they're wrong, they double down. It takes a huge amount of egoism to look somebody in the eye, admit you were wrong, and talk about how you'll change and be even better. Not to mention that if done right it can pretty effectively deflate attempts to use your past mistakes against you.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:02
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So now Trump is saying that Muslim judges can't be trusted not to be biased. Newt "Food Stamp President" Gingrich
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Jun 5, 2016 19:03
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Is it too early or too late to start theorycrafting convention shenanigans after all?
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Jun 5, 2016 19:05
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Antti posted:Is it too early or too late to start theorycrafting convention shenanigans after all? Romney is the only big name Republican still going after Trump. So he might try and pull something even if its just a write in campaign in November. He might turn Utah blue which would be something.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:06
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Antti posted:Is it too early or too late to start theorycrafting convention shenanigans after all? convention shenanigans on either side were a fever dream and still are. We're getting Hillary and Trump, time to deal with it
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Jun 5, 2016 19:07
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bird cooch posted:Secret service officer, not agent. Officers check bags and guard the grounds. They are the guys dressed like cops. Agents are the guys with wild security clearances that shadow the 1st family. "I'll never forget the name of that man that met with Shi-, the First Lady during that full moon on 06/06/96. Or his smell of sulfur and brimstone" Ben Ghazi.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:08
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Chantilly Say posted:It takes a huge amount of egoism to look somebody in the eye, admit you were wrong, and talk about how you'll change and be even better. Not to mention that if done right it can pretty effectively deflate attempts to use your past mistakes against you. That might be less egoism or arrogance and more confidence.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:11
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Full Battle Rattle posted:convention shenanigans on either side were a fever dream and still are. We're getting Hillary and Trump, time to deal with it Oh Hillary's going to be the Democratic nominee, but only a month ago we were wondering if Cruz might be able to subvert the convention by having the majority of delegates be actually in his camp and then break the first ballot restriction through the rules committee.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:11
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Full Battle Rattle posted:convention shenanigans on either side were a fever dream and still are. We're getting Hillary and Trump, time to deal with it I agree with you that the nominee won't change, but Sanders has repeatedly said he will try shenanigans at the convention.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:14
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Sanders has also privately told colleagues in the Senate he'll go willingly and that he's just posturing. We'll know a lot more once the primaries are finally over. I can see the Arzying pattern going from "Will Bernie drop out?" to "Will Bernie endorse Hillary?" to "Will Bernie speak at the convention?" to "Will Bernie stump for Hillary?" over time.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:17
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Hillary has an outside shot at clinching tonight.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:18
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Trabisnikof posted:I agree with you that the nominee won't change, but Sanders has repeatedly said he will try shenanigans at the convention. So to non-Americans and the politically illiterate - how might those shenanigans play out? Let's assume Bernie goes all-out, what will he do at the convention?
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Jun 5, 2016 19:19
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He can instigate his supporters to not support the nominee and sit out the election. He can't take the nomination when Clinton has such an overwhelming advantage in every conceivable way. He can just cause trouble and try to throw the election. It's a game of chicken. The establishment knows Sanders doesn't want to throw the election, but Sanders wants to try to bluff them to persuade them otherwise, because then he has no ammo to influence the platform. Shimrra Jamaane posted:Hillary has an outside shot at clinching tonight. Sanders is definitely not dropping out until Tuesday and besides, as long as his deficit in pledged delegates is less than the amount of delegates left to win, he has a theoretical chance. The fact that he needs a ludicrous percentage of remaining delegates has not changed and has been the case for months, that's why he's trotted out this superdelegate argument because he has nothing else left to play. Edit: gently caress it's primarychat 
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Jun 5, 2016 19:20
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Ansiktsburk posted:That might be less egoism or arrogance and more confidence. You can confidently deny that you said something bad; you can arrogantly admit it and talk about what you'll do next. You're supposed to be ashamed when you say the wrong thing, that's why confident people won't admit it. They're confident, not ashamed. To say "I did a bad thing and I still hold my head high; I will do my best to do better" is arrogance.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:21
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I learned that my Republican mother will not vote for Trump, but certainly won't be voting for Hillary either. I told her to pull for Gary Johnson.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:23
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Chantilly Say posted:You can confidently deny that you said something bad; you can arrogantly admit it and talk about what you'll do next. You're supposed to be ashamed when you say the wrong thing, that's why confident people won't admit it. They're confident, not ashamed. To say "I did a bad thing and I still hold my head high; I will do my best to do better" is arrogance. So what you're saying is confident people apologize for racist comments like this, but arrogant people
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Jun 5, 2016 19:24
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Anos posted:So to non-Americans and the politically illiterate - how might those shenanigans play out? Let's assume Bernie goes all-out, what will he do at the convention? Antti posted:Sanders has also privately told colleagues in the Senate he'll go willingly and that he's just posturing. Answer: the craziest thing Bernie will do at the convention is concede nearly immediately
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Jun 5, 2016 19:30
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