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Chantilly Say posted:You can confidently deny that you said something bad; you can arrogantly admit it and talk about what you'll do next. You're supposed to be ashamed when you say the wrong thing, that's why confident people won't admit it. They're confident, not ashamed. To say "I did a bad thing and I still hold my head high; I will do my best to do better" is arrogance. Haha, what the gently caress, is it opposite day already? "A confident [sub-text, good] person denies doing any wrong while an arrogant [bad] person acknowledges they hosed up" Like, I get that a narcissistic person might acknowledge and make an empty promise, but a confident person doesn't hide that they hosed up Boon fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 19:31
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Anos posted:So to non-Americans and the politically illiterate - how might those shenanigans play out? Let's assume Bernie goes all-out, what will he do at the convention? Most damaging thing he could do is delay the convention with off-camera attempts to change the rules/delegates/timeline that pushes the good speeches til after prime time. On the flip side, if Sanders is in on some Kabuki theater, they could have a drama filled prime time that dominates the news cycle and makes Clinton look good.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:33
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Chantilly Say posted:You can confidently deny that you said something bad; you can arrogantly admit it and talk about what you'll do next. You're supposed to be ashamed when you say the wrong thing, that's why confident people won't admit it. They're confident, not ashamed. To say "I did a bad thing and I still hold my head high; I will do my best to do better" is arrogance. You seem to have the definitions of "arrogance" and "confidence" utterly confused.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:34
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Yeah the more and more I think about it the more I think Sanders is trying to keep his base energized and engaged until the convention. where It's going to be on Hillary and others to move them over
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Jun 5, 2016 19:40
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Dexo posted:Yeah the more and more I think about it the more I think Sanders is trying to keep his base energized and engaged until the convention. where It's going to be on Hillary and others to move them over I just don't think Sanders is the kind of politician that lies to his supporters and tells the truth behind closed doors to political elites.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:43
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Star Man posted:I learned that my Republican mother will not vote for Trump, but certainly won't be voting for Hillary either. I told her to pull for Gary Johnson. Tell her to stay home in protest instead.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:43
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withak posted:Tell her to stay home in protest instead. this
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Jun 5, 2016 19:44
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withak posted:Tell her to stay home in protest instead. gently caress that. Its better that she participate than not. Tell her to vote for the person she thinks is at least a responsible steward.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:47
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Boon posted:Haha, what the gently caress, is it opposite day already? Refusing to hide that you hosed up removes other people's power to attack you with your mistakes. Most people don't do that, it's hubristic.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:47
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Trabisnikof posted:I just don't think Sanders is the kind of politician that lies to his supporters and tells the truth behind closed doors to political elites. I used to think a lot of things about Sanders that have been proven wrong over the past few months.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:48
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Chantilly Say posted:Refusing to hide that you hosed up removes other people's power to attack you with your mistakes. Most people don't do that, it's hubristic. Do you talk about yourself in the third person? If you want to be a pedant about this can we discuss whether altruism is an actual thing or not too?
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Jun 5, 2016 19:50
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Chantilly Say posted:Refusing to hide that you hosed up removes other people's power to attack you with your mistakes. Most people don't do that, it's hubristic. So admitting you messed up and trying to fix it is bad because people can't attack you? Don't we want people to better themselves through self reflection?
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Jun 5, 2016 19:50
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Boon posted:Do you talk about yourself in the third person? I don't follow what you mean, sorry. My bad, naturally. E: Mr Hootington posted:Don't we want people to better themselves through self reflection? Is that any of our business?
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Jun 5, 2016 19:51
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Boon posted:gently caress that. Its better that she participate than not. Tell her to vote for the person she thinks is at least a responsible steward. Nope. Because then she may vote Hillary or leave the presidential race vote blank, but then vote straight ticket R in the State and federal house and senate races. I'd rather she just not vote
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Jun 5, 2016 19:52
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Dexo posted:Nope. Because then she may vote Hillary or leave the presidential race vote blank, but then vote straight ticket R in the State and federal house and senate races. Would you like to establish some kind of voter-ID for her while you're at it?
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Jun 5, 2016 19:53
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Boon posted:gently caress that. Its better that she participate than not. Tell her to vote for the person she thinks is at least a responsible steward. That's fine for president but we would all be better off if she didn't vote on any down-ticket races either.
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Jun 5, 2016 19:55
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Boon posted:Would you like to establish some kind of voter-ID for her while you're at it? Sure, why not. Can we Scar her face with a reverse R too?
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Jun 5, 2016 19:56
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Dexo posted:Sure, why not. Can we Scar her face with a reverse R too? All kidding aside, I'm trying to establish the parrallel train of thought youhave with the GOP. Voting SHOULD be mandatory, but it shouldn't be actively depressed
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Jun 5, 2016 19:57
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Chantilly Say posted:I don't follow what you mean, sorry. My bad, naturally. The implication is that someone who acknowledges the mistake has the foresight to understand that they will be better off if they're upfront about it. The same argument is made, perhaps rightly, to claim that altruism does not fundamentally exist in people capable of interpreting the consequences of their actions. However, your sense of hubris and arrogance as well as confidence are profoundly conflated
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Jun 5, 2016 20:06
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Boon posted:All kidding aside, I'm trying to establish the parrallel train of thought youhave with the GOP. I disagree that voting should be mandatory. A non-vote or abstaining is a vote or statement of no confidence. If you don't like any of your options you shouldn't have to vote for them. I do however think voting needs to somehow be made more convenient. I just don't have a good solution for that. Since voting isn't mandatory however it is in my best interest for conservatives to not vote. The goal of any election is GotV, and dissuading the other side from voting. I'm fine with dissuading the other side from voting through words or arguments, not so fine with dissuading the from voting through outright lies, or making it significantly harder for them to vote if they want to(Voter ID, lol Alabama only has like two places to get ID in the entire state). For Example, Trump and Republicans trying to either get them on their side or dissuade Bernie Supporters from voting is perfectly A-OK to me. It's part of the game. Them lying about voting times, or absentee ballot rules, or sending misleading mailers that make it seem like you are breaking the law or something if you don't vote is where I draw the line. Also Mandatory voting would end up just being another way to lock up or fine to hell and back poor people. Dexo fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 20:08
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Boon posted:The implication is that someone who acknowledges the mistake has the foresight to understand that they will be better off if they're upfront about it. Right, exactly. quote:You claim this as hubris, which... You have a peculiar sense of the word. This makes me wonder how altruism could exist in someone who wasn't capable of interpreting the consequences of their actions.
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Jun 5, 2016 20:10
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Dead Reckoning posted:there is absolutely no chance they will curb emissions if it causes domestic pain They're both (especially China) going full steam ahead on alternative energy. Admittedly, this is basically a way to curb emissions while minimizing domestic pain, but it's a positive sign.
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Jun 5, 2016 20:14
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Chantilly Say posted:Right, exactly. Yeah, but the way you're describing this makes it seem like you think it's a bad thing. "Look at that rear end in a top hat. Learning from his mistakes and striving to not make them again. Smug prick."
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Jun 5, 2016 20:16
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Crain posted:Yeah, but the way you're describing this makes it seem like you think it's a bad thing. Nah, it's none of my business unless their mistakes affect me.
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Jun 5, 2016 20:22
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For people who think voting should be mandatory: what do you think the penalty should be for not voting?
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Jun 5, 2016 20:43
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VikingofRock posted:For people who think voting should be mandatory: what do you think the penalty should be for not voting?  Edit: 
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Jun 5, 2016 20:47
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VikingofRock posted:For people who think voting should be mandatory: what do you think the penalty should be for not voting? 
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Jun 5, 2016 20:47
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Maybe guillotine. Edit: great minds think alike.
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Jun 5, 2016 20:48
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Someone post that gif of all of the HENRYs.
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Jun 5, 2016 20:54
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VikingofRock posted:For people who think voting should be mandatory: what do you think the penalty should be for not voting? monetary fine
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Jun 5, 2016 21:07
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I'd prefer to first have a national service.
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Jun 5, 2016 21:17
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Chantilly Say posted:Refusing to hide that you hosed up removes other people's power to attack you with your mistakes. Most people don't do that, it's hubristic. Hahaha, what are you even trying to say? "You know, I thought about it and you're totally right, it was real lovely of me to say that. I'm sorry, and I'll do my best not to do it again. Thanks for calling me out on it." - the words of a conceited egomaniac
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Jun 5, 2016 21:21
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Crowsbeak posted:I'd prefer to first have a national service.
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Jun 5, 2016 21:22
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Trabisnikof posted:I just don't think Sanders is the kind of politician that lies to his supporters and tells the truth behind closed doors to political elites. He's certainly not being 100% truthful with them and that's been the case for a while.
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Jun 5, 2016 21:31
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Nessus posted:I keep hearing this, and what it always makes me think is not "ah, an ennobling period of government-aided seasoning for young people," but rather "corvee labor for private interests." Ah yes ensuring people have served their country is really a bourgeois plot to put wool over the protoletariats eyes and serve Capital.
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Jun 5, 2016 21:38
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idiotsavant posted:Hahaha, what are you even trying to say? "You were right and I was wrong. I'm sorry that I hurt you and from the bottom of my heart I apologize" Such arrogance
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Jun 5, 2016 21:39
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Chantilly Say posted:Refusing to hide that you hosed up removes other people's power to attack you with your mistakes. Most people don't do that, it's hubristic. Chantilly you're saying things based off some scenario you have in your head but it's nonsense. You can confidently deny you made a mistake. Or, you can arrogantly deny you made a mistake. You can confidently admit a mistake and resolve to do better. Or, I suppose, you can arrogantly resolve to do better, although this kind of strikes most people as odd, as you can also humbly admit a mistake and resolve to do better. It doesn't have to be one or the other. You're picturing some person who doesn't care whether they're right or wrong and their sole goal is to win an argument and while that can happen it's not the case that this is the only reason anyone ever does something like that, nor is it the case that anyone saying "I'll try to do better" actually believes that they'll be perfect and never say something stupid again from that point on. You can apply "confident" or "arrogant" to either of those positions. Or you can apply "humble" to someone admitting a mistake.
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Jun 5, 2016 21:41
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Full Battle Rattle posted:convention shenanigans on either side were a fever dream and still are. We're getting Hillary and Trump, time to deal with it This is because Cruz is just the absolute worst. He had a chance to at least give America the bloody circus we so desperately want, and he contemptuously refused. Like pouring out water on the ground in front of a thirsty man. All he had to to was be an obstinate rear end in a top hat, refusing to give in despite all evidence that he had lost, the Ted Cruz thing to do. Then that fucker went and zigged where he'd always zagged before. Star Man posted:I learned that my Republican mother will not vote for Trump, but certainly won't be voting for Hillary either. I told her to pull for Gary Johnson. I was visiting with family in Kansas last week, and should they hold any sort of corollary connection with the general electorate, things are not looking good for Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if a noticeable amount of "Independent" voters suddenly didn't show up and vote Republican for the first time in a generation or two. General consensus seemed to be that right now it's a choice between an Oligarch, a Socialist(said with the venomous tone capable of being uttered only by old school Cold Warriors), and a Clown. And they were wishing they'd at least have the option of voting for the Socialist. Full Battle Rattle posted:Answer: the craziest thing Bernie will do at the convention is concede nearly immediately Hillary giving Obama the nomination as the representative of the New York delegation was too good of a move not to have Bernie do the same as the representative of the Vermont delegation. VikingofRock posted:For people who think voting should be mandatory: what do you think the penalty should be for not voting? I personally get their empty ballot to fill out and return for them. That burden shall be passed on to a worthy successor in my Will. Gyges fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 21:42
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Dexo posted:I do however think voting needs to somehow be made more convenient. I just don't have a good solution for that. Vote by mail with pre-paid postage. Standing in line to vote is obsolete.
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Jun 5, 2016 21:43
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Vote by mail is a disaster on the back end of management though.
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Jun 5, 2016 21:44
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