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cheese posted:The epic armor quests for heroes are so unbalanced. Like 3 of Archaeon's 5 are "deploy a hero in your starting zone". Thorgrim's first two? Have 2 units of Gyrocopters in his army (requires a tier FIVE building) and own FOUR entire provinces. What the gently caress is that poo poo? Franz/Manfred/Arch all have multiple epic items by like turn 40 - I'm on turn 70 of my new VH dwarf campaign and Thorgrim has nothing. Ilustforponydeath posted:Now ask the thread if gyrocopters are worth the considerable time expense. I thought it was gyrobombers that require high tier buildings? Your standard gyrocopters just require a level 3 building?
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Jun 6, 2016 18:22
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Ilustforponydeath posted:Now ask the thread if gyrocopters are worth the considerable time expense. Regular ones no, Brimstone can replace artillery quite well if used all battle. They do less up front but far more over a fights full duration and their mobility is loving incredible for dwarf armies.
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Jun 6, 2016 18:23
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Fangz posted:I thought it was gyrobombers that require high tier buildings? Your standard gyrocopters just require a level 3 building? Bombers need the Highest Tier siege workshop. All of them need highest tier engineers hall. So you need a tier 4 and a tier 5 building at the absolute minimum to make gyrocopters.
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Jun 6, 2016 18:33
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Blinks77 posted:Bombers need the Highest Tier siege workshop. All of them need highest tier engineers hall. Sup blinks, miss yer mag  Yeah with the AI's love fest for charging your artillery with cav and flying units, I have a feeling Gyrocopters with brimstone are the first artillery you can actually use for its intended purpose, applying damage without babysitting them. Because all the other artillery it sure involves dealing with the 2-3 cycles of cav charges that keep coming back. It's so predictable, I wish they had another routine.
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Jun 6, 2016 18:35
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drat Dirty Ape posted:I like Ungrim and picked him for my fist dwarf campaign but his global bonus blows compared to Thorgrims. Thorgrim starting with a Grudge-thrower is also huge. Insta-assaults on provincial capitals matter a lot in the Badlands, where one missed turn could be a Waaagh! or Grimgor himself or both coming down to beat your rear end in the field, as opposed to behind a wall.
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Jun 6, 2016 18:35
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Rakthar posted:Sup blinks, miss yer mag I played again a little time ago, but there was some seriously odd crap going on with the network connection. I kept having awful lag and freezes.Which given how the mag plays tended to end in fire and horror.
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Jun 6, 2016 18:38
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A lot of people have been asking for really basic tips, and I find this is a great guide for someone completely unfamiliar with Total War with some pretty stuff to look at.
Triskelli fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 18:38
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Rakthar posted:Sup blinks, miss yer mag To be fair this is basically what I do. I won a battle as orcs the other day because basically I charged straight past their main line with boar boys in an underground tunnel and set them straight on their artillery. Prevented the artillery from firing and tied up a unit of demigryph Knights who were sent back to help. By the time they killed or routed all my boar boys my black orcs and Boyz had beaten the rest of the army to a bloody pulp and was able to charge straight at the artillery and last unit of demigryph Knights. I mean, I don't know why you wouldn't attack an artillery heavy army's artillery with cavalry...
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Jun 6, 2016 18:46
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Kitchner posted:To be fair this is basically what I do. I won a battle as orcs the other day because basically I charged straight past their main line with boar boys in an underground tunnel and set them straight on their artillery. No that's not what you do. You don't send 4 melee units to fight his line to die because that's not enough and then send 4 boyz to flank and also die because also not enough in an attempt to get to the artillery. Which is what the AI does. When yer fight goblins looks for their wolf riders + spider riders to hit your arty around the 1 minute mark, right after the inf line engages. When yer fighting undead their varghulfs will fly over to your artillery crew while your army is still just hanging out. It's dumb.
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Jun 6, 2016 18:48
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Rakthar posted:Because all the other artillery it sure involves dealing with the 2-3 cycles of cav charges that keep coming back. It's so predictable, I wish they had another routine. Protect your flanks.
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Jun 6, 2016 18:48
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NT Plus posted:That's more or less by design. You firing line is meant to be the killy types. Your warriors are there to receive the main charge of the enemy. Just take care they don't get shot by your firing lines. Flanking is always king but quarrellers generally don't give a poo poo and WILL fight a long while before finally routing. Man for man, a dwarf generally overpowers any greenskin. How do firing lines work in this game? I can't always tell why a unit is being obstructed and how do we know if they're causing friendly causalities? I notice firing arcs seem different from guns to quarrelers as well .
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Jun 6, 2016 18:49
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Ilustforponydeath posted:Protect your flanks. Yes, the first two minutes of each battle involves killing their stupid cav, and then taking advantage in the infantry pit, which is boring. Having a unit of arty is actually the best poo poo because you will trigger these balls out cav rushes, just be prepared for them and you're golden. It is a bit hard to stop boars from getting through no matter how determined you are, but they're big loving pigs so what do you want.
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Jun 6, 2016 18:50
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Ignoring the gyrocopters for a second, aren't the flame cannon really terrible against armored units for being the most expensive dwarf artillery?
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Jun 6, 2016 19:00
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Is there a vigor stat that varies from unit to unit? Or do human tire at the same rate skelymans do?
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Jun 6, 2016 19:01
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Is there a vigor stat that varies from unit to unit? Or do human tire at the same rate skelymans do?
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Jun 6, 2016 19:01
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NT Plus posted:That's more or less by design. You firing line is meant to be the killy types. Your warriors are there to receive the main charge of the enemy. Just take care they don't get shot by your firing lines. Flanking is always king but quarrellers generally don't give a poo poo and WILL fight a long while before finally routing. Man for man, a dwarf generally overpowers any greenskin. Reik posted:So bringing like 2 Thunderer units and putting them on flanks behind anti-Large infantry would ruin most shock cavalry's day? Yes it will. For Dwarves I usually set a melee blob (ironbreakers, longbeards or basic warriors) that take the charge and my thunderers (or quarrellers) gang up on the flanks. That unit goes down hard. Quarrellers also are way too good with lasting from a charge. Doing Empire now and I got spoiled by Dwarf infantry. That dwarven flamethrower unit is a fairly good flanker as well. Not as good against armoured but flanking kicked the crap out of whatever was stuck in the tank unit.Another good role is character killer. In some Blocks, I had one or two thunderers between my tar pit armoured infantry. They target the enemy general (along with a cannon or two) and soon that general dies or is gravely wounded. Love this game. Was the Dwarven Banker throughout, making insane money and investing in Human territories and dwarven brethren to fight chaos while I consolidated the south. Often giving multiple gifts a turn. Once I grabbed all the south and did a little greenskin ethnic cleansing, I sat back and played around with creating the perfect platoons. The forces of chaos were a bit weathered by the legions thrown at it but were never expecting a literal horde of fresh and shiny Dwarven guns to come to meet them. Neither did the last remaining tatters of Vampire clans. After the victory screen I decided to keep playing just to see what I can get from moving around the map. Kislev, Ostland, Nordland and pretty much everyone save the Empire were ashes. So many razed cities. Brettonia and Tilea did alright as well. Everyone else? Just ruins. Its ok.... I've got plenty of money and lots of dwarves who can help you rebuild. For the right price. Now started Empire. Can't wait. DogsInSpace! fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 19:01
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Draynar posted:I notice firing arcs seem different from guns to quarrelers as well . Geez, you think?
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Jun 6, 2016 19:06
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After playing a bunch of Greenskins, I have to say their not having a single strong combat hero is a notable late game weakness for them. At the point of the game where every other race is playing heroquest you're still just rocking a Lord+Shaman, and Shaman's are even that good. Anyway, scattered thoughts on the Greenskin roster. Not going to bother talking about savage orcs other than that they are ferocious as hell but hard enough to get in campaign that it isn't really even worth thinking about. Infantry Goblins Simultaneously a lot better than you'd expect and also never worth building. They're quite cost effective chaff, especially for arrow catching with the 50% block shields but outside of MP and like automatic garrison choices there's not much reason to ever build them unless you're trying to cheese autoresolve with numbers or something. Orc Boyz It is kinda shocking how much of the map you can streamroll early game with just a stack of Boyz and their mostly mediocre stats, but I believe it comes down to them doing T2 damage as a T1 unit, Boyz are a threat to pretty much anything in numbers so just get your Waugh on, break early game armies with massed boyz charges and you've pretty much won the campaign already. Night Goblins I think the problem with Night Goblins is their tier placement, as an alternative to Boyz I would totally try Night Goblins, but matched up against Big'uns, really? That's the choice you want me to make? Also their bent towards ambush tactics is a little at odds with their hyper fragile morale making it really risky to deploy them outside your commander aura. They are cool as hell though, especially with fanatics. I look forward to the inevitable Skarsnik DLC making an all goblin army viable. Orc Big'uns At a certain point you will upgrade your Boyz to Big'uns, and so will your garrisons. Just keep in mind it takes 2 turns to build them so a little advance planning is in order. Big'Uns have a small anti-large bonus, unlike the entire rest of the Greenskin roster, but they're also somewhat weak defensively and don't have charge protection so don't start thinking of them as spears. They're pretty much just T2 Boyz, still kinda squishy but capable of wrecking everything with their big boy damage as long as you've brought enough of them. You'll be using them as a staple of your army as soon as they're unlocked. Black Orcs Black Orcs are everything you don't get from other Greenskin units. High Armor! High LD! Armor Piercing! Also hella expensive and take 3 loving turns to build. Like in practice Black Orcs are almost flatly superior to Big'uns but so much of a hassle logistically and upkeep-wise that it's not really advisable to replace them with Black Orcs wholesale. A small core of 4-5 Black Orcs in an army is all you will ever need, at most. Big'uns do just as much damage or more to targets that aren't heavily armored anyway, and you're playing a shock based army so going too heavy on Black Orcs can be slightly detrimental. Archers Goblin Archers Picking Archers with Greenskins is a matter of trying to find the least bad option. That's not to say you want to ignore archers entirely, they're useless against Dwarves (Except for Gyrocoptor missions) but perform well vs other Orc tribes and will save your rear end vs Savage Orcs so it never hurts to have a couple backing up your army. All that said, Goblin Archers are definitely the weakest link. Slightly better accuracy does not compensate for their garbage range and missile damage. Orc Arrer Boyz I haven't tested this extensively, TBH, but my gut feeling is that Arrer Boyz are ever so slightly less poo poo than Goblin Archers, so that's my suggestion. The fact that they can fight off poo poo like light cav a little better is also a point in their favor. Night Goblin Archers I'm a hypocrite, because you're back to goblin bows with this, but I like Night Goblin Archers the best. Poison Arrows are just really really good, letting them fall into a supporting role in your army and the fanatics bowling through cav is always a plus. Never too many fanatics. Cavalry Mentally I separate Greenskin cav into three groups, so that's how I'll talk about them. Goblin Wolf Cav Available in melee, ranged, and chariot form. Basically terrible light cav all around but cheap and easy to get. Better 2 Wolf Cav than no Cav at all, but only just. In this game there's light Cav, and then there's Wolf Riders, who need to contemplate utilizing multiple units and cycle charging to take out an artillery crew. The Wolf Chariot is actually probably the least bad option, combining a not terrible ranged attack with a not completely terrible charge, but by the time it's an option you are waaaay done with wolf cav. Spider Cav No Chariots, but it does lead to the giant spider of doom, so... Spider Cav is my preference. They're faster than Boar Cav, stronger than Wolf Cav, and bring Strider, Poison, and Vanguard deployment to the table as bonuses. You can get through most of the game using Wolf Riders to strategically tie up units or mop up ranged, and Spider Rider Archers are one of the best ranged cav options in the game, IMO. Boar Cav I both like and hate Boar Cav. For one thing, unlike the Spider building that unlocks all of your non-boar cav and your best late game monster, the Boar chain wants me to dedicate a capitol slot to producing a single mid-tier Cav unit. They also take twice as long to build as Spider Riders that I'd rather have anyway. More importantly though, the annoying thing about Boars is that they're both slow as poo poo and awful in melee, so any other faction besides dwarves is going to be able to easily counter your cav with cav 90% of the time. The decent charge impact and armor piercing is nice but I so rarely get to use it. I think against Dwarves is the one time they really earn their upkeep. Monsters Man, all the Greenskin Monsters are great. Yes even Trolls, which you can totally get way early on by just building a 5gp building in a level 3 town. Just use your Trolls as bodyguards for your General and they'll almost never route. They make great shock troops vs infantry and even bang up heroes pretty well. Used in small groups with some infantry supporting and their regen they'll fight the entire battle and almost never take any noticeable damage. Giants are also really good outside the fact that autoresolve hates them and longs for their death. Yeah game, my 2 Giants with several thousand HPs who smash their way through huge multistack battles while barely getting scratched both died in a minor garrison skirmish. This is a very believable result. Giant Spiders of doom are easily the strongest monster, obviously, though I notice them taking a lot more damage than Giants do. I think it's just that their threat level is so high the AI targets them more. The key to using monster units in general is to use them as support troops rather than being your whole army. A Giant will smash straight through an infantry line, causing massive disruption and terror along with some solid aoe damage, but that doesn't mean you want to send one in alone and let him get surrounded by 4 units of Greatswords. Every monster hitting the enemy line should be followed by at least a unit or two of infantry or cavalry cleaning up. Baby your monsters just a tiny bit and they're basically unkillable. Until you autoresolve. Artillery Rock Lobba's are average, Doom Divers are one of the best artillery in the game on account of their long range and extreme accuracy. I tend not to bother with Rock Lobba's unless I'm looking to roll over walls quickly, but Doom Divers are good and I should use them more, outside that one regiment with Grimgor that I kept alive the entire campaign. Bleh, Greenskins have too many units, I'm done. I'll just say Shaman magic (both kinds) is a little underwhelming right now. madmac fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 19:11
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Captain Beans posted:Is there a vigor stat that varies from unit to unit? Or do human tire at the same rate skelymans do? I believe the fatigue stat is universal between troops. However, different actions take different amounts of fatigue. By default running takes almost no fatigue, here are the values: Fatigue cost for running: 4 Fatigue cost for melee fighting: 15 Fatigue cost for shooting: 23 This is why your artillery and ranged troops tend to get exhausted very quickly, your melee troops more slowly while fighting, and then finally almost not at all while running around. quote:Ignoring the gyrocopters for a second, aren't the flame cannon really terrible against armored units for being the most expensive dwarf artillery? The flame cannons are loving poo poo, I don't think they even kill infantry that well.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:11
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Rakthar posted:Sup blinks, miss yer mag Widen your line. Checkerboard is good for that.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:12
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Arglebargle III posted:Widen your line. Checkerboard is good for that. So what I am saying is not that I struggle with the cav charges the AI sends at your artillery, rather that it is a very poor use of cavalry and that I would prefer they used it to decide the engagement or whatnot. The fallback for the AI, harassing your missile troops with their cav, is actually an improvement because that does something unlike with the artillery. To me the AI scrpiting that says "Charge your cav into either: 1. Artillery, 2. Ranged units, 3. Weak melee heroes at the 1 minute mark" is kinda dumb because it's rarely decisive for the AI, it often loses them the battle. What is my 1 grudge thrower doing that is worth 4 flying undead suiciding on it before I start the siege?? How can it be that big of a threat? But nope, those things must die.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:17
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madmac posted:Giant Spiders of doom at the strongest monster, obviously, though I notice them taking a lot more damage than Giants do. I think it's just that their threat level is so high the AI targets them more. Arachnaroks are really good in my opinion. It's also easy to forget that unlike giants they are armor piercing. Arachnaroks can take time off from mauling infantry hordes to do serious damage to any high value target on the battlefield. They will paste a Chaos Giant in a 1v1. They will bash a Steam Tank to death. And if they corner a hero they will just eat it alive. Big spider too stronk.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:21
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The best (worst) thing about Flame Cannons is that 150 range, slightly less than a crossbow unit. Don't worry though, they also fire slowly.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:21
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Chomp8645 posted:Arachnaroks are really good in my opinion. It's also easy to forget that unlike giants they are armor piercing. Arachnaroks can take time off from mauling infantry hordes to do serious damage to any high value target on the battlefield. They will paste a Chaos Giant in a 1v1. They will bash a Steam Tank to death. And if they corner a hero they will just eat it alive. Oh for sure. I meant no disrespect to the Arachnarocks. I think they're probably the best monster unit in the entire game.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:23
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Back To 99 posted:Ignoring the gyrocopters for a second, aren't the flame cannon really terrible against armored units for being the most expensive dwarf artillery? That's the problem with hamfistedly mixing a battle system based on rock-paper-scissors mechanics with a campaign map based on teching up style progression.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:24
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I imagine they did it for balance, but boy howdy it's frustrating watching Kislev and Kraka Drak wander around with full stacks and not reoccupy their drat ruins. Sent an army up to Kislev on my Very Hard Empire campaign; they were getting their rear end kicked by the Varg and acquiesced to a military alliance. I was surprised to see Kraka Drak had held out, and they were amenable as well. After throwing money at both, they decided to send armies to go die deep in Norsca while the Northern Oblast was gone and the main Kraka Drak hold was gone. I finally got frustrated and just colonized the oblast, but watching the corruption slowly tick up to 100% while the dwarfs do jack poo poo is depressing. It's amplified by watching the Varg and Skaeling rush out to grab any Norsca ruins they can find. drat ruins-dwelling evil vikings.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:27
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The fatigue details are interesting, especially their major effects on ranged units. It might make meat shield units worthwhile, but probably more effective to zigzag your hero around for the same effect.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:28
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sassassin posted:That's the problem with hamfistedly mixing a battle system based on rock-paper-scissors mechanics with a campaign map based on teching up style progression. With Dwarf Arty i basically just go with Cannons and/or Grudge throwers. The flame cannons and Ogran guns are just a bit "meh" i find. It's really a problem with their entire roster. My late game stacks are basically Ironbreakers, thunderers, quarrelers and one of those two arty depending if the enemy has monsters or not. So one high tier and everything else is as basic as it can get.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:30
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Chomp8645 posted:Geez, you think? You act like this isn't a video game and that would be something to expect for someone playing a total war game for the first time lol.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:53
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Blinks77 posted:With Dwarf Arty i basically just go with Cannons and/or Grudge throwers. The flame cannons and Ogran guns are just a bit "meh" i find. The game would be more fun if we could pick and choose from the whole roster, only limited by our finances and tactical nous.There aren't many straight upgrade units in the game, and these are already differentiated by upkeep/recruitment cost & time. Fussing with making sure the right buildings are in the right settlements, planned dozens of turns in advance, is dumb. Greatsword Dwarfs aren't better than normal ones, they're just different, so why the extra bullshit work to be able to hire them? It makes sense in historicals, but not warhammers.
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Jun 6, 2016 19:59
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I've got a fairly good handle on the game, but I'm curious about a situation I come across occasionally and want to see what goons do. What's the preferred tactical setup for when you're outnumbered, but not necessarily outclassed, e.g. if you're up against VC chaff or weaker Greenskins? Specifically what formations do people use; checkerboards are great in relatively even fights, but if you're way outnumbered it's really hard to not get flanked.
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Jun 6, 2016 20:00
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Since we're on the topic of arty, a guy on reddit did some math that matches with my general observations: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kKoARlZLnb1Q0LwEi1T36k42CsyXQkSTBx6DvIg5ctY/edit#gid=952012517 Quarrelers: Amazing against everything in the early game but fall off in effectiveness hard when armored units show up Thunderers: Good against armored units, mediocre against everything else Here's the surprise, but it's also what I was noticing in my testing: Organ Guns: Murder against armored units, good against everything I think the best way to test it is to rotate out some number of quarrelers for organ guns when you start hitting tier 2 / armored stuff. So if you run 6 quarrelers normally, switch to like 4 quarrelers / 2 organ guns or 3 / 3 and see how that goes. Should keep up your killing power at the loss of some flexibility. Out of all the Dwarf artillery if you need to kill large number of armored enemies quickly, the Organ Gun is your only real choice. Also artillery scales stupidly with buffs, techs, and unit veterancy. Don't go off just the base artillery stats, it gets real dumb real quick. Ham Sandwiches fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 20:03
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Chomp8645 posted:Geez, you think? Not everyone has played a game like this
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Jun 6, 2016 20:03
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Mister Adequate posted:I've got a fairly good handle on the game, but I'm curious about a situation I come across occasionally and want to see what goons do. What's the preferred tactical setup for when you're outnumbered, but not necessarily outclassed, e.g. if you're up against VC chaff or weaker Greenskins? Specifically what formations do people use; checkerboards are great in relatively even fights, but if you're way outnumbered it's really hard to not get flanked. Concentrate your hardest hitting units on one point, break through their lines there and chain rout. Also kill the officers first.
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Jun 6, 2016 20:09
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Rakthar posted:Since we're on the topic of arty, a guy on reddit did some math that matches with my general observations: 25% penalty to campaign map movement is a big handicap to make up imo.
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Jun 6, 2016 20:11
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Rakthar posted:Since we're on the topic of arty, a guy on reddit did some math that matches with my general observations: Huh, intresting. I'd usually setup with a checkerboard with the thunderers and Ironbreakers. Quarrelers in the back shooting over the heads. Maybe i'll try swapping the thunderers for Organ guns. Could work. Edit:Tried orcs again, just cannot get on with them for some reason. Blinks77 fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 20:21
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sassassin posted:Concentrate your hardest hitting units on one point, break through their lines there and chain rout. Aye, I tend to focus on officers in such situations. Hadn't thought of ploughing through the lines like that though!
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Jun 6, 2016 20:23
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Rakthar posted:Since we're on the topic of arty, a guy on reddit did some math that matches with my general observations: Organ guns are okay but they really suffer from the low range for an artillery piece. Cannons shoot significantly further and have better single target damage on things like giants, and because they have the added range they can shoot at other artillery like doom divers or hellcannons should you not have the gyros to deal with those. Decent artillery is something that can actually do a lot of damage to a dwarf army, along with real strong AP infantry like Chosen Great Weapons. Being able to deal with those threats as fast as possible is really, really important, and therefore I'd always found cannons more useful in comparison, at least until you get comfortable with brimstone gyros, which have the flexibility to be better than both against VC/Chaos, who have zero real counters to them (just pull flying units back to your gunline with the gyros and watch them disappear). My standard late game army was 6 Ironbreakers, 6 ranged, (either 6 quarrelers or 6 thunderers, it really doesn't matter I've found), 2 Brimstone, and 4 cannons. This beat every Chaos or VC attack I ran across, generally with ease. Beating most armies as the Dwarfs is all focusing down the poo poo that can break your line cohesion or actually do damage to you. This is a limited number of units: monsters, chariots (they have the mass to punch a warrior unit out of place), high AP heavy infantry (basically just Chosen Hal/GW) and ranged weapons. Cannons excel at this because you have so much time to actually shoot at these things, whereas Organs only get about 2/3s of the same amount of time. Once your units merge, pretty much all artillery gets useless unless you actually got thrown a good map with a hill to work with, which isn't often, especially not in the underway, where your armies send a lot of time given the corruption attrition. I don't run around with my stacks together so YMMV on actual makeup. Mazz fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 20:27
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Rakthar posted:The flame cannons are loving poo poo, I don't think they even kill infantry that well. Yeah. For the fun gimmick I compared them to the flamethrower guys and they lost. Not that the flamethrower guys were that good, as they are profoundly mediocre, but they are better. The range of the flame cannon meant its close to the lines where I'd rather have thunderers or any other ranged. Damage is fairly meh against unarmoured but gently caress all against armour. ROF is ok but it just doesn't do the same damage quarrellers would. Plus once it gets charged you have to target the drat crew on the cannon. Really terrible choice. Rakthar posted:Since we're on the topic of arty, a guy on reddit did some math that matches with my general observations: Yeah have one platoon/block/army group that's almost all shooty artillery. Lord and 4 stacks of melee made up of combo ironbreaker/longbeard/warriors. 4 Cannons and 3 organ guns with my engineer hanging around. The organ guns have whittled down heavy cav in seconds. Big Uns, Black Orcs, Chaos, Vampires, Trolls, hell it doesn't matter. Only weakness this group had was chaos marauder cav rush armies. Still, with quarrellers being dwarfs that just meant some of my many crossbowmen might do double duty as a screen for my artillery. Very gimmick army group but I kinda love it. Ran with 5 cannon and 3 organ gun for a bit but that same marauder cav army almost cleaned my clock when they hit my lines. Granted there was almost nothing left of them but I needed just one more unit to screen the arty.
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Jun 6, 2016 20:29
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Mazz posted:Organ guns are okay but they realyl suffer from the low range for an artillery piece. Cannons shoot significantly further and have better single target damage on things like giants, and because they have the added range they can shoot at other artillery like doom divers or hellcannons should you not have the gyros to deal with those. Yeah for low unit counts with high armor, ie heroes, giants, and single monster units poo poo like cannons is boss. The problem is other than heroes, most of those units kinda suck. The fact that you can hit air at a good range is a huge bonus. The cannon is the all arounder that will be your grudge thrower++, no doubt about that. quote:Decent artillery is something that can actually do a lot of damage to a dwarf army, along with real strong AP infantry like Chosen Great Weapons. Being able to deal with those threats as fast as possible is really, really important, and therefore I'd always found cannons more useful in comparison, at least until you get comfortable with brimstone gyros, which have the flexibility to be better than both against VC/Chaos, who have zero real counters to them (just pull flying units back to your gunline with the gyros and watch them disappear). Yeah I use the Organ Gun for things like Chaos Chosen, Big Uns / Black Orks, Greatswords. Another thing is the heavy rear end shock cav that the AI likes to field - so Boar Big Unz, Black Knights with Barding, Reiksguard and Gyphons etc. I feel like cannons really suck against them but Organ Guns do actually hit them sometimes. I suspect Dwarfs really want Cannons all game long, Organ guns are more of a unit killing option when you are facing armored stuff in quantity. Ham Sandwiches fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 20:35
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