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Knifegrab posted:Knowing Valve you are probably right. And its pretty obvious HTC will do a gen2 but will anyone want one if it can only play half of the games? Doesn't Steam already have more VR games on it than Home? By virtue of being the largest gaming software distribution platform on PC I don't think you can go wrong with any headset. It should be a foregone conclusion that all future headsets (worth caring about) will have the wherewithal to actually ship with motion controls and as long as they are similar enough all games should be compatible. Oculus will learn or fail just like behemoths like Microsoft do. I guarantee you MS has more invested in Xbox than Facebook does in Oculus and they've pivoted many times. Between this busted as Rift launch and Steam continuing to have the love of the average PC gamer, they will have to adapt. Who cares if they are lovely right now? It only hurts them, not us. When Half-Life 2 launched and I had to install this piece of poo poo bloatware called "Steam" I raged at the machine just like you're doing. Today I own 293 (oh my god) games on Steam.
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Jun 6, 2016 21:39
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Knifegrab posted:Knowing Valve you are probably right. And its pretty obvious HTC will do a gen2 but will anyone want one if it can only play half of the games? If Oculus keeps this exclusive thing, I honestly don't know if anyone is willing to buy an HTC gen 2 headset if the Oculus Gen2 is just as good but will have more games by virtue of also being able to access the Oculus store. Do I think Valve will care? No, because they also have games that aren't on Oculus because maybe those developers don't want to support Oculus. Steam is the better platform and they can play to that with refunds, wishlists, game reviews, and steam sales. As long as there are VR headsets, SteamVR will exist. So this is really only a problem for HTC and any other manufacturers who want to bring a headset to market.
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Jun 6, 2016 21:41
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Cojawfee posted:If Oculus keeps this exclusive thing, I honestly don't know if anyone is willing to buy an HTC gen 2 headset if the Oculus Gen2 is just as good but will have more games by virtue of also being able to access the Oculus store. Do I think Valve will care? No, because they also have games that aren't on Oculus because maybe those developers don't want to support Oculus. Steam is the better platform and they can play to that with refunds, wishlists, game reviews, and steam sales. As long as there are VR headsets, SteamVR will exist. So this is really only a problem for HTC and any other manufacturers who want to bring a headset to market. Yeah but what I'm saying is it kinda sucks for us. And since it doesn't really affect anyone like steam (who I agree make so much money from non-vr sales they probably don't care), the big players I mean, we as consumers can't really change things (well we can, but boycott.jpg). I'd really like to go into Gen2 purchasing whatever HMD is better based on hardware specs, not based on software locking. theBeaz posted:Doesn't Steam already have more VR games on it than Home? By virtue of being the largest gaming software distribution platform on PC I don't think you can go wrong with any headset. It should be a foregone conclusion that all future headsets (worth caring about) will have the wherewithal to actually ship with motion controls and as long as they are similar enough all games should be compatible. Oculus will learn or fail just like behemoths like Microsoft do. I guarantee you MS has more invested in Xbox than Facebook does in Oculus and they've pivoted many times. Steam absolutely has more titles but Oculus users can still play those titles. The difference is that Vive users cannot play Oculus Home Titles. So when gen2 hits you will have two options: 1) A HTC headset which can play steam games. Or 2) An Oculus headset which can play steam games and Oculus Home games. People will obviously gravitate towards the latter independent of the hardware.
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Jun 6, 2016 21:46
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Knifegrab is this you? https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/4mndsd/girlfriend_and_i_broke_up_a_few_weeks_ago_since/
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Jun 6, 2016 21:48
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r0ck0 posted:Knifegrab is this you? God drat I wish, things would be so much simpler...
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Jun 6, 2016 21:54
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r0ck0 posted:Knifegrab is this you? This implies a relationship prior to VR man.
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Jun 6, 2016 21:56
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Cojawfee posted:Now that the vive is out, I doubt Valve will be doing anything besides adding in support for any new headsets as they come out. They've said they don't even want to do that; their position is that headset manufacturers should be the ones responsible for adding support in OpenVR. They implemented Vive support because they needed a headset to test the runtime with, and they kept supporting Rift because they already had the code and Oculus clearly weren't going to do so. But OSVR, StarVR and LeapMotion support were all done by third parties, and that's the way Valve intend it to work. I think Hydra is they only thing they've gone out of their way to support?
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Jun 6, 2016 22:04
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sliderule posted:A PS exclusive?!?! N... no! Look up "rez vr suit" and despair in the knowledge you will probably never get to wear it.
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Jun 6, 2016 22:16
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Is STEM ever going to be a thing, or did I just throw hundreds of dollars away?
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Jun 6, 2016 22:18
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Subjunctive posted:Is STEM ever going to be a thing, or did I just throw hundreds of dollars away? You likely threw it away. Almost nothing is going to target stem. Did it ever even release or is it still a nebulous coming soon.
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Jun 6, 2016 22:20
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Knifegrab posted:You likely threw it away. Almost nothing is going to target stem. Did it ever even release or is it still a nebulous coming soon. I mean more, like, will the hardware ever ship?
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Jun 6, 2016 22:21
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Subjunctive posted:I mean more, like, will the hardware ever ship? Was there any advantage to the stem system over the current motion control technology?
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Jun 6, 2016 22:26
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I think the Oculus Store will ultimately be moot, on PC at least. Self-contained devices like the Gear VR are where Oculus thinks the market is headed, and those could easily wind up having their own OS, and thus their own ecosystem. Hence why they have Carmack working on the mobile stuff.
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Jun 6, 2016 22:27
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Nalin posted:Has anybody bought Edge of Nowhere yet? I've been considering picking it up tonight after work and I was wondering what people think about it. I beat Chronos so I'm ready for my next game. I'm buying it because I love Chronos and I am an ABSOLUTE MONSTER who does not give a poo poo about the VR Wars. It's a near 7 gig download, so I probably won't have any impressions of it until later tonight but if you want to hold off I'll give a review once I've had a chance to put a little time into it.
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Jun 6, 2016 22:28
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StarkRavingMad posted:I'm buying it because I love Chronos and I am an ABSOLUTE MONSTER who does not give a poo poo about the VR Wars. It's a near 7 gig download, so I probably won't have any impressions of it until later tonight but if you want to hold off I'll give a review once I've had a chance to put a little time into it. I'm triggered please no
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Jun 6, 2016 22:32
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Subjunctive posted:I mean more, like, will the hardware ever ship? Last email I saw from that said STEM was delayed to Oct 2016. Looks like they keep changing the goalposts, which is ok on a feature standpoint, but not so hot on something they said they would deliver to people as a real thing. So in short, no. You tossed your cash down the same toilet I did. Knifegrab posted:Was there any advantage to the stem system over the current motion control technology? Your body shouldn't occlude magnetic fields.
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Jun 6, 2016 22:41
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Subjunctive posted:I mean more, like, will the hardware ever ship? Let's see... From the original kickstarter page: ESTIMATED DELIVERY: Jul 2014 From their latest April update: It is with a heavy heart we inform you that the release of the STEM System has been delayed until October 2016 due to manufacturing logistics complications which have now been resolved. Everything's fine, though, your money was just sent to live on your uncle's farm. It's much happier there.
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Jun 6, 2016 22:42
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Yeah, I just asked the Steve guy what the process is for refunding a pre-order.
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Jun 6, 2016 22:44
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Syves posted:Last email I saw from that said STEM was delayed to Oct 2016. Looks like they keep changing the goalposts, which is ok on a feature standpoint, but not so hot on something they said they would deliver to people as a real thing. But the occlusion problem is already solved by just having two separate base stations whether it is rift cameras or vive lighthouses 
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Jun 6, 2016 22:45
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Pretty much.
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Jun 6, 2016 22:46
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Knifegrab posted:But the occlusion problem is already solved by just having two separate base stations whether it is rift cameras or vive lighthouses Not completely. Cross your hands in front of you, for example. All the LeapMotion failure states apply. Optical tracking is also fragile in the presence of other controllers or props. OTOH, it exists and isn't an interference-laden mess, so there's that.
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Jun 6, 2016 22:48
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Subjunctive posted:Not completely. Cross your hands in front of you, for example. All the LeapMotion failure states apply. Optical tracking is also fragile in the presence of other controllers or props. Yeah I suppose I've run into some minor occlusion issues since I've had my vive but it's like so infrequently I barely even register it. Isn't stem ridiculously expensive too?
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Jun 6, 2016 22:50
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Knifegrab posted:Yeah I suppose I've run into some minor occlusion issues since I've had my vive but it's like so infrequently I barely even register it. Isn't stem ridiculously expensive too? I don't want to talk about it.
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Jun 6, 2016 22:52
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Subjunctive posted:I don't want to talk about it. 
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Jun 6, 2016 22:53
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Subjunctive posted:I mean more, like, will the hardware ever ship? The answer for "hardware" and "Kickstarters" is literally always "no, unless they actually know how to do this stuff already and the Kickstarter is just a preorder gimmick".
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Jun 6, 2016 23:05
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Roadie posted:The answer for "hardware" and "Kickstarters" is literally always "no, unless they actually know how to do this stuff already and the Kickstarter is just a preorder gimmick". You're posting in a weird thread for that claim.
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Jun 6, 2016 23:10
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I am a sucker for Lovecraft so I picked up the Edge of Nowhere, totally missing the 'Moderate' label in the Oculus store. I knew it was a third person viewpoint but I figured it would be a fixed viewpoint. Nope, they just move the camera when you move the analog stick. Urk. I really don't handle the camera moving independently of me very well. Climbing was fine but running along just kept pushing the  meter higher and higher until I had to take a break right before an hour was up. I knew if I kept playing I would be sick the rest of the day instead of only 5-10 minutes. VR definitely adds some great immersion but the nausea combined with the well trod game mechanics puts this in a glad to have more VR experiences but not going to write home about it. Maybe the later portions will change my mind.
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Jun 6, 2016 23:39
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Gendal posted:I am a sucker for Lovecraft so I picked up the Edge of Nowhere, totally missing the 'Moderate' label in the Oculus store. I knew it was a third person viewpoint but I figured it would be a fixed viewpoint. Nope, they just move the camera when you move the analog stick. Urk. Here's a question I have, because your point has been mentioned by lots of reviews and stuff. Do you feel like this game was designed to be in VR? Or do you feel like they made a 3rd person horror game and at the last minute said "Eh just put the camera in VR!"?
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Jun 6, 2016 23:45
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Cojawfee posted:If Oculus keeps this exclusive thing, I honestly don't know if anyone is willing to buy an HTC gen 2 headset if the Oculus Gen2 is just as good but will have more games by virtue of also being able to access the Oculus store. Facebook can't keep buying exclusives forever when the total HMD market is only 100k-ish. Plus I don't think exclusives really factor that much into purchasing decisions unless they're really important exclusives like Halo or Bloodborne. Nobody is buying an Oculus just to play Chronos. Plus Vive seems to be winning the publicity war: do a YouTube search for videos within the last week or month on both Oculus and Vive and compare the view counts, or do a google trends search and compare their trajectories. The steam hardware survey reports three times as many users with Vives as Oculus CV1s, and even if you include the DK2s there are still twice as many Vives as CV1s + DK2s. That's twice as many Knifegrabs as the Oculus equivalent of Knifegrabs, and they aren't going to easily switch sides.
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Jun 6, 2016 23:48
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When gen2 hits I will have no loyalty to either side. I'd prefer to keep supporting a company that is hardware agnostic, but at the end of the day I'm going to choose the best headset available to me as a consumer. Right now that is the Vive because it had roomscale out first and I really enjoy roomscale. Had Oculus launched with touch I might have stuck with it, though I still think the Vive is the better roomscale package. I want a completely Open Ecosystem so its VR in general and not HMD vs HMD. VR is fun and neat and cool and everyone should play and use it.
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Jun 6, 2016 23:56
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Knifegrab posted:Was there any advantage to the stem system over the current motion control technology? The advantage was that Stem existed (in prototype form) and nothing else besides maybe the Leap Motion did. If they had released when they had promised to, they probably could have snagged every DK2 owner and probably some CV1 owners when it came out. While Oculus has yet to release info on when exactly Touch will come out, chances are it will be out before Stem ever releases. Their only hope now is to target these smaller brand headsets like Fove (if that ever releases), OSVR, or StarVR. Or maybe some CV1 owners who don't want to buy Touch but still want motion controllers for whatever reason. In a very niche market, they just became even more niche. Edit: They also have more sensors so you can do some body tracking. In theory they could still sell those and offer leg and torso tracking in conjunction with a Rift or Vive. That all depends on if their motion tracking is as accurate as the Rift or Vive. If there's any drift compared to the normal motion tracking, it's going to get really weird. Cojawfee fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 23:57
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Cojawfee posted:The advantage was that Stem existed (in prototype form) and nothing else besides maybe the Leap Motion did. If they had released when they had promised to, they probably could have snagged every DK2 owner and probably some CV1 owners when it came out. While Oculus has yet to release info on when exactly Touch will come out, chances are it will be out before Stem ever releases. Their only hope now is to target these smaller brand headsets like Fove (if that ever releases), OSVR, or StarVR. Or maybe some CV1 owners who don't want to buy Touch but still want motion controllers for whatever reason. RIP Stem. Gone and also forgotten.
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Jun 6, 2016 23:59
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Hierophant posted:Facebook can't keep buying exclusives forever when the total HMD market is only 100k-ish. Plus I don't think exclusives really factor that much into purchasing decisions unless they're really important exclusives like Halo or Bloodborne. Nobody is buying an Oculus just to play Chronos. Plus Vive seems to be winning the publicity war: do a YouTube search for videos within the last week or month on both Oculus and Vive and compare the view counts, or do a google trends search and compare their trajectories. The steam hardware survey reports three times as many users with Vives as Oculus CV1s, and even if you include the DK2s there are still twice as many Vives as CV1s + DK2s. That's twice as many Knifegrabs as the Oculus equivalent of Knifegrabs, and they aren't going to easily switch sides. Helps you can actually buy a Vive and receive it in a timely fashion.
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Jun 7, 2016 00:00
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Gendal posted:I am a sucker for Lovecraft so I picked up the Edge of Nowhere, totally missing the 'Moderate' label in the Oculus store. I knew it was a third person viewpoint but I figured it would be a fixed viewpoint. Nope, they just move the camera when you move the analog stick. Urk. Just get a refund no biggie.
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Jun 7, 2016 00:03
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Knifegrab posted:Here's a question I have, because your point has been mentioned by lots of reviews and stuff. Do you feel like this game was designed to be in VR? Or do you feel like they made a 3rd person horror game and at the last minute said "Eh just put the camera in VR!"? However it does kind of feel like it was just slapped into VR and I think the reason is it's missing Touch. I was really hoping the game controller would be a good interface for an HMD but so far, outside of Defense Grid 2, it doesn't feel like that's true. Also DG2 worked perfectly well with just the remote. The whole mixed walking simulator, platformer, action thing they have going on now isn't nearly as interesting to me as just exploring and interacting. However I never want to explore because that pushes the nausea meter higher. Not that the game seems to reward exploration from what i can tell, besides the straightforward main path. I keep thinking about The Gallery : Starseed whatever. I wasn't very big on that game for a variety of reasons but I can't stop thinking about it and wishing EoN was more like it and I think that's just because of the motion controllers.
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Jun 7, 2016 00:07
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I gotta imagine a horror game would be way scarier in first person anyway.
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Jun 7, 2016 00:16
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Weirdly the Kotaku reviewer said it was more comfortable than any other VR game he'd played. This stuff seems to be more subjective than I'd initially thought (though I guess something like EoN will still have a majority effect which justifies a 'medium' VR sickness rating).Kotaku review (minor spoilers) posted:Edge of Nowhere’s primary question is whether a perfectly standard type of video game is worth putting into virtual reality. There’s nothing about it that demands it be experienced in VR. Given how frequently the player must simply look ahead to keep their focus on the lead character, there’s barely any gameplay impact. But the sense of scale that VR provides a game like this is remarkable. The comfort with which you can play this game is an example for other VR developers to follow. Yes, it is good and satisfying and even spectacular to play a traditional third-person action adventure in virtual reality. He also concludes though that were it flatscreen-only it wouldn't match up to the interest of current gen 3rd person games, in terms of the gameplay mechanics being more simply etc. Says it's mainly about the arctic setting+VR.
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Jun 7, 2016 00:22
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El Grillo posted:Weirdly the Kotaku reviewer said it was more comfortable than any other VR game he'd played. This stuff seems to be more subjective than I'd initially thought (though I guess something like EoN will still have a majority effect which justifies a 'medium' VR sickness rating). I would rate just about any Vive roomscale title as E for Everyone however.
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Jun 7, 2016 00:38
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Well that makes me feel less bad about being excluded from playing EoN. Doesn't seem like I'm missing much. Someone recommended checking out House of the Dying Sun, it does indeed look really cool, and it comes out tomorrow! Knifegrab fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 00:41
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Gendal posted:Weird, it's obviously wildly subjective per person and maybe even to that day. I didn't eat much yet. Overall so far I would rate it a bit less comfortable than Lucky's Tale and a lot less comfortable than Defense Grid 2. Yeah, I'm not getting any motion sickness from it at all. I'd say I'm kind of moderate in that regard in general. Most games don't give me motion sickness, but some car driving games (ETS/ATS) and certain first-person experiences where the camera moves quickly give me a good dose of it -- Dreadhalls makes me pretty queasy, Subnautica makes me a little ill feeling if I play it for too long. Oddly, while driving games make me sick, space games don't at all. I'd say in terms of camera movement, Lucky's Tale is probably a good point of reference. I'd rank this even more comfortable than Lucky's Tale, at least for me, since the camera here is a little more fixed to your guy. After playing only around 45 minutes, I do like it a lot, and generally agree with that Kotaku review so far. It doesn't feel to me like it would be interesting without VR (or like it's just a non-VR game in a VR wrapper), since a large part of it is looking around the environments, hearing something coming from the left and swinging your head over there to check out some weird thing, and the immersion of all that. Kind of reminds me of Chronus there -- that game would be a pretty tame third person hack and slash if it weren't for looking around the cool environments in VR. It's not super scary but it does have a good sense of atmosphere. I do wonder if this was originally intended to be a first person game and then they moved the camera back and up into a trailing camera because of motion sickness concerns. Some of the mechanics (he looks where you look with his headlamp, he aims where you look) seem like they might have been first person intended and then changed. They work really well, though. I think it's cool so far. My biggest concern is the length -- the reviews seem to peg this at 4-5 hours long which is a little steep for a $40 price tag that probably won't have a lot of replayability. General advice might be to wait and see if it goes on sale in the future. Also props to it for (minor spoiler for the very first section of the game): getting me REAL good with a jump scare like a minute in
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Jun 7, 2016 01:11
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