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peter gabriel posted:You're opening yourself up to all the blues tones that way and doing it with valves to get that awesome volume control using your fingers and guitar. While the Night Train will definitely do this, so will plenty of non-tube gear. Maybe they don't all do it the same way or with the same amount of control, but I feel like it's gotten really uncommon for new amps and pedals to lack the ability to clean up when they see a weaker input. I think the last thing I owned that didn't do it was an 80s Peavey Stereo Chorus, which had the same "can of bees" distorted sound at all attack and guitar volume levels. I feel like everyone in the industry figured out how to do the volume cleanup thing recently, and have been constantly reminding us ever since.
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May 23, 2016 22:01
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Ferrous Wheel posted:While the Night Train will definitely do this, so will plenty of non-tube gear. Maybe they don't all do it the same way or with the same amount of control, but I feel like it's gotten really uncommon for new amps and pedals to lack the ability to clean up when they see a weaker input. I think the last thing I owned that didn't do it was an 80s Peavey Stereo Chorus, which had the same "can of bees" distorted sound at all attack and guitar volume levels. I feel like everyone in the industry figured out how to do the volume cleanup thing recently, and have been constantly reminding us ever since. Oh yeah I do agree, but if someone mentions Cream era Clapton a nice valve amp is a great start rather than a good start, if that makes sense - and the choice these days is great. Turns out he wants portable though and knowing that solid state is the best way anyway.
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May 24, 2016 00:40
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Am I going to get more clarity out of my amp by using the turning the master up higher than the channel volume? Cranking the channel volume seems like it oversaturates the gain on my amp, but I'm kind of a clown and don't know much about amps.
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Jun 4, 2016 04:33
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Depends how the amp is wired. Preamp volume/gain usually increases gain, power amp increases volume but can add subtle effects based on tubes, wattage, and circuit design. Also some amps label knobs differently. Ive seen a few where the master volume is really a pseudo attenuator and others where it's power amp post gain. Which amp are you using?
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Jun 4, 2016 04:53
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Preamp and power tubes distort differently, and yeah it depends on the amp. Lot of older Marshalls sound good to me with the preamp dimed and master volume set to where you want to get the speakers involved, but if you dime many modern amps' pres you're getting massive shitloads of distortion and compression by way of comparison.
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Jun 4, 2016 05:08
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It's a peavey JSX or XXX II which is the same amp.
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Jun 4, 2016 05:15
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All those Peaveys you get the most clarity with the pre gain as low as you can get away with and the post/master turned up until you get saturation.
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Jun 4, 2016 05:42
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That's generally the rule I go with on my 6505+ but the JSX just acts weird with some things.
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Jun 4, 2016 05:45
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Page 10 of the manual shows a block diagram with the ultra and crunch volume controls still in the preamp section so they will probably be a bit harsher than the master volume just before the power amp. Set master volume as high as you want and cut with the channel volume controls or gain to tighten the flab same as most dual rec style amps. If you need more aggression and clarity try a ts808 In front with sad eyebrows or cut the resonance as you bring the pregain up. Short answer, add more mids, cut lows and control the high end for musical clarity.
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Jun 4, 2016 05:55
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Any tips on recording the "red box" direct out on a Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 18? I rented one for a couple months to test out. I'm getting some nice sounds through it but no headroom to play with the master and gain knobs, my interface starts clipping pretty quick (a focusrite sapphire 2i2) I'm thinking an analog volume in the effects loop might give me more play without affecting gain. Any recommendations? I don't want to invest any money unless I decide to pull the trigger and buy the thing. Just recording off the FX send sounds really nice too, after messing with the virtual cabinets in amplitube and guitar rig. Maybe that's the way to go.
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Jun 5, 2016 15:37
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reallivedinosaur posted:Any tips on recording the "red box" direct out on a Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 18? I rented one for a couple months to test out. An analogue volume pedal would work, but before you give up on the redbox, make sure your interface's input type is set to "line" and not "instrument'. Your cab simulation may in fact end up being better than the amp's though. Play around with it, and see what you like
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Jun 5, 2016 18:05
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Clipping with guitar is apparantly enough of a problem with the saphire that the newer ones are advertising to have fixed it.
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Jun 6, 2016 17:02
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Has anyone tried a The Valve Bimbo? Apart from the hilarious name they're supposed to be very good, and someone in my area is offering a slightly used one at a good price. Alternatively there's a used PRinceton Reverb that intrigues me (I know it's a totally different amp), but I'm afraid it might be too much for mere home playing.
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Jun 6, 2016 18:46
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With luck, I'll have a little cash available by the end of summer, and I think it's finally time to get the big time tube head that I've always wanted. Right now I play through an Audimation B-100 (Early 70s boutique hand made solid state by the guy that designed the Ampegs from that era) through a home-built 2x12 with Celestion vintage 30s, and a bunch of pedals in front of that. I have an Ampeg V4 4x12 I can run through, also, but it's really too big to tour around with so I like to leave it at home, but it's available for power if I need it. My style is heavier guitar indie rock with sort of a punk basis, like California X, Ovlov, Jawbreaker, stuff like that. I play lead but also do a lot of delay soaked texture stuff - soundscapes and things in the background. My guitars are all Fenders of various varieties, but mostly Telecasters with humbuckers. The other guitarist in the band plays Jaguars and Les Pauls through a Peavy Classic 50 4x10 combo, there's bass and drums also, so that should give an idea of sound level. Anyway, I've always loved the JCM800, but I worry that it will be too much for my 2x12, and I also worry a bit that I won't get any good sound out of it if I have to keep the knob around 1-2 for a bunch of the venues we play. I've also thought about an old Bassman head, as I've seen them used very nicely with effects. And it's been suggested to me to get into an Orange rockerverb 50. Of all of them, I like the marshall the best, but again the volume/power thing. But what other amps am I not thinking of? I don't really want to spend the money for some crazy boutique head - about 1500 to 2000 is my budget I think, less if I can manage it. And if I can get away under 1000 I really want to. So, help me out!
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Jun 6, 2016 21:13
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Maybe look at a Mesa/Boogie Mark V 25 or 35? They're both in your upper price range. Also, there's some Orange OR100s on Reverb right now for $1150-1400, and they'll do 30, 50, 70, and 100W output. They're heavy as gently caress, tho.
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Jun 6, 2016 22:07
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Silverface Bassmans are abundant, cheap, reliable and good. Find a '69 - '77, and I'm pretty sure you're set. Earlier than that and you're paying extra for blackface or near-blackface specs, which you should maybe hold off on until you're not on your first tube amp. Later than that and it might be too sterile-sounding, but still worth checking out. Listening to the first two bands you mentioned, I don't think you need the Marshall sound in particular. Bassmans are great pedal platforms. Edit: the post above reminded me that if you prefer the EL34 sound, Orange OR80s or OR120s are also great pedal platforms. Gorgar fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 22:18
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Not my first tube amp, just my first BIG tube amp. My recording amp is a Gibson Explorer, for instance, with a 3 6V6 power section. The M/B is an interesting idea, but I can't think of anyone near me where I could test one out. I like the M/B sound, but is 25 or 35 watts going to be enough umph? Anyway, if it came down to an Orange or the Bassman, what's going to be the major disadvantage/advantage of either (aside from the Fender being old an possibly needing new parts)? Also, what about the Orange OR-50? I see one for relatively cheap on reverb right now. Mr. Wiggles fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 23:12
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What about an Ampeg V2? That old Ampeg preamp is very good, does pedals well, and should break up at a reasonable level.
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Jun 6, 2016 23:25
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Mr. Wiggles posted:With luck, I'll have a little cash available by the end of summer, and I think it's finally time to get the big time tube head that I've always wanted. Right now I play through an Audimation B-100 (Early 70s boutique hand made solid state by the guy that designed the Ampegs from that era) through a home-built 2x12 with Celestion vintage 30s, and a bunch of pedals in front of that. I have an Ampeg V4 4x12 I can run through, also, but it's really too big to tour around with so I like to leave it at home, but it's available for power if I need it. My style is heavier guitar indie rock with sort of a punk basis, like California X, Ovlov, Jawbreaker, stuff like that. I play lead but also do a lot of delay soaked texture stuff - soundscapes and things in the background. My guitars are all Fenders of various varieties, but mostly Telecasters with humbuckers. The other guitarist in the band plays Jaguars and Les Pauls through a Peavy Classic 50 4x10 combo, there's bass and drums also, so that should give an idea of sound level. Mesa heads are quality. The Recto-Verbs (which can go from 10 to 25) I got last December were loving solid and the only thing I didn't like is that the channel switcher and the reverb footswitches come separately and they only sell you the heads with the channel footswitch included in stores, which is stupid. Tonally, the head is pretty much what I needed on tap. Crispy cleans and hot-as-hell overdrive. At one point in the tour I did as a hired gun, I even stopped using my OCD for those "Up to 11" moments, because the amp was delivering so well, all I had to do was to use the volume knob in my guitars. As Schpyder mentioned, the two-channel Mark V's are also solid.
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Jun 6, 2016 23:28
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Mr. Wiggles posted:Also, what about the Orange OR-50? I see one for relatively cheap on reverb right now. Only a single channel, no FX loop, with a lot of gain on tap, so might not be good if you want to do clean-ish stuff.
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Jun 7, 2016 00:07
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Mr. Wiggles posted:Not my first tube amp, just my first BIG tube amp. My recording amp is a Gibson Explorer, for instance, with a 3 6V6 power section. For a solid and mega versatile amp you can do a lot worse than a Blackstar head. They do Marshall tones well and clean up nicely and have tons of quality of life stuff built in, they also are pretty decent on price. I tend to mention them a bit because I have one, and also people seem to forget about them. Something like this: https://new.andertons.co.uk/p/HTSTAGE100/guitar-amp-heads/blackstar-ht100-stage-100-head-guitar-amplifier
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Jun 7, 2016 12:32
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See if you can try out a jet city JCA 50 anywhere. I prefer it for hot rodded marshally sound than the blackstar which is a little dark. I love the sound of rockerverbs so thats my choice out of the availalbe but if a JCM800 is what you've got your heart set on go for it. Honestly I've never really found an issue with running high power amps at low-ish gig volume. Feels like a bit of a waste not using the avaialble power on tap but the whole "amps MUST be turned up high to be good" thing is overblown IMO. Also "low ish" for any rock band with a drummer is prob going to be at least a 3/4 on the dial unless the venues got something weird going on. massive spider fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 13:05
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Mr. Wiggles posted:With luck, I'll have a little cash available by the end of summer, and I think it's finally time to get the big time tube head that I've always wanted. Right now I play through an Audimation B-100 (Early 70s boutique hand made solid state by the guy that designed the Ampegs from that era) through a home-built 2x12 with Celestion vintage 30s, and a bunch of pedals in front of that. I have an Ampeg V4 4x12 I can run through, also, but it's really too big to tour around with so I like to leave it at home, but it's available for power if I need it. My style is heavier guitar indie rock with sort of a punk basis, like California X, Ovlov, Jawbreaker, stuff like that. I play lead but also do a lot of delay soaked texture stuff - soundscapes and things in the background. My guitars are all Fenders of various varieties, but mostly Telecasters with humbuckers. The other guitarist in the band plays Jaguars and Les Pauls through a Peavy Classic 50 4x10 combo, there's bass and drums also, so that should give an idea of sound level. Are you here in Western Mass by any chance?
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Jun 7, 2016 14:50
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Mr. Wiggles posted:Not my first tube amp, just my first BIG tube amp. My recording amp is a Gibson Explorer, for instance, with a 3 6V6 power section. Bassman won't have an effects loop or any preamp drive, where an Orange might. Probably doesn't affect your situation. Bassman will be generally warm and round sounding, kind of mid scooped unless you compensate for that. Orange will have more bite, tighter lows probably, may have a presence control. The OR-50 I've never tried, but it has the same FAC knob the OR-80s/120s had. It lets you change the voicing of the amp from thick and woofy up to thin and trebly. Can't speak for the preamp distortion; my OR had a 12AY7 instead of the 12AX7. Worked better for my habit of leaving the volume way up and using the gain as a volume knob, and pedals for distortion, and also made it a good bass amp. Bassmans are inoffensive, Oranges are more interesting. Both are good, but if you're not specifically going for the Fender sound and you can afford an Orange, they're worth checking out.
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Jun 7, 2016 16:58
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I may get more into that Orange, then. jwh posted:Are you here in Western Mass by any chance? Reno. massive spider posted:See if you can try out a jet city JCA 50 anywhere. I prefer it for hot rodded marshally sound than the blackstar which is a little dark. Most of the places we play I can never get up over 3 on my current amp anyway before you can't hear the drums any more - that's over three different drummers in this band. When we're lucky enough to play places that mic the drumkit, the sound guy is usually poo poo enough that all considerations of volume just go out the window anyway and we thump along the best we can. I've seen the Jet City things here and there for sale, but I've never actually seen one used by anyone.
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Jun 7, 2016 22:48
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Mr. Wiggles posted:I may get more into that Orange, then. I love Bassmans, and I've got a blackface I was going to use as my main guitar amp, but then I rediscovered the Thunderverb and mostly just use that. Still using a modern Bassman 100T for recording away from home though.
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Jun 7, 2016 22:53
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There's a beautiful, very lightly used OR-50 in a local GC yesterday and it took some willpower not to get it. I love how Orange amps sound. I am definitely going to get an Orange cab when we get into a place where I can turn my amp up a bit.
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Jun 8, 2016 00:24
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Mr. Wiggles posted:
Ah, okay. The only people I ever hear talking about California X and Ovlov in the same sentence tend to be from here (though Ovlov is in Connecticut). Cali X isn't using amazing gear- I remember them playing Music Man heads and an Ampeg V4B bass head. Anyway, I don't like how the OR50 has mini-pots mounted to the PCB directly, but I'm sure they're probably nice amps. I went looking for a schematic, but couldn't find one.
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Jun 8, 2016 15:34
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Haha. My buds in woozy turned me on to those guys. I think they do split EPS and stuff sometimes. When I heard the. I was like "whoah that's our sound!" Anyway, thanks for letting me know about the knob thing. My bass ayer just broke a knob on his svt classic, and it's an expensive fix.
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Jun 8, 2016 15:49
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Mr. Wiggles posted:Anyway, thanks for letting me know about the knob thing. My bass ayer just broke a knob on his svt classic, and it's an expensive fix. Everything SVT related is an expensive fix. God forbid you need a new output transformer.
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Jun 8, 2016 16:25
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K so I'm just popping into this discussion to say choose Orange. It's the right decision. Fight the fight against black boring amps and tones that are not huge and clear at high gain settings.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:25
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It's hard to argue against a la jetée avatar.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:58
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I've posted it before, but this is what were touring with for the next month, 2 guitars, no bass  Edit: I guess for more on topic, Orange amps are good for a few things, my favorites being crushingly loud distortion, and insanely controllable feedback. You can put a delay in the loop, or in front, and it doesn't really make a difference. You're gonna have to dial that poo poo back. The onboard reverb is useless also, but who the gently caress is using reverb on a cranked distorted amp? Chumps, that's who. They're also pretty loosey goosey as far as the distortion goes, think cranked big muff. They're not going to be clear cut, precise, like a JCM800, Mesa, or 5150. That being said, I've played 6 or so different models from guitar to bass and have always gotten cool sounds out of them. 
Pokey Araya fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 00:45
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Mr. Wiggles posted:It's hard to argue against a la jetée avatar. My maaaan! Pokey Araya posted:I've posted it before, but this is what were touring with for the next month, 2 guitars, no bass I want this rig to sonically destroy my bones
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Jun 9, 2016 01:02
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Kilometers Davis posted:My maaaan! If you're west coast we're headed that way. 
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Jun 9, 2016 01:31
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Pokey Araya posted:If you're west coast we're headed that way.
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Jun 9, 2016 05:10
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Pokey Araya posted:If you're west coast we're headed that way. Florida 
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Jun 9, 2016 12:45
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While the Orange talk is going on I have a question: My little Orange OR15 is running through a stock Marshall JCM900 Lead 1960 4x12 Cabinet that I've had for years. I've been thinking about pairing that OR15 with an Orange PPC212 cabinet instead. Would I hear much difference between the two cabinets?
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Jun 9, 2016 18:03
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The PPC212C will probably be closer, as it's closed-back like the 1960A, but both the open and closed PPC212s are loaded with Vintage 30s, where the 1960A has G12T-75s, so yes, it'll sound somewhat different. How exactly I couldn't tell you, maybe see if you can find someplace with both the OR15 and both cabs in stock and try them out to see how you like them?
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Jun 9, 2016 18:22
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Vintage 30s have a very pronounced upper midrange that can be very fatiguing. I don't particularly like them by themselves- but they can sound good paired with G12H-75 Creambacks or G12H30s. This is a popular combination for a lot of cabinet builders. I've seen recording studios replace Fender Twin speakers with V30s, and I can't for the life of me understand why you'd do that. They're exhausting to listen to. But who knows, you may really like the sound. I happen to like the Orange PPC cabinets.
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Jun 9, 2016 19:07
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