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xwing posted:Liberia. I've been there. I visited their hospital to use it as a reference for infrastructure and care standards. They have the best hospital in the country. Firestone also houses, feeds and provides medical care for it's employees... they aren't slaves and the jobs are highly coveted. They also controlled ebola within their plantation pretty well. So why is a company town good but a state bad, again?
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Jun 7, 2016 21:15
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xwing posted:https://www.irs.gov/uac/related-statutes-and-penalties-general-fraud You're talking about two different things here: 1) not paying taxes owed and 2) hiding income in order to not owe taxes Tax evasion is not the same as simply not paying your taxes. You can't be charged with tax evasion for forgetting to file, for instance. The prosecutor has to prove that your failure to pay taxes was willful. Willfully trying to avoid wage garnishment or trying to hide income is tax evasion, you're right on the money. But the "men with guns will put you in a cage" thing is way overblown; tax evasion cases rarely ever lead to jail time, and a lot of tax evaders don't ever actually get charged; the government just doesn't have the resources to go after most of them. quote:I can't reply to everyone... I'd like to reply to Stinky_Pete later. I'd also recommend responding to any posts that Caros makes; Caros is a good and well-informed poster who has a tendency to be level-headed. You could also respond to me but there are some days where I just feel like shitposting QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 21:20
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Say you get caught and then try to go off books to avoid your wages being garnished, or being self-employed you bet you could get jail time. Sure, as an individual they probably won't come at you with a SWAT team, but they could. So if you play nice for the 
they'll be nice enough to not throw your rear end into jail.
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QuarkJets posted:In libertopia you'd have to bribe someone for every 10 feet of cable that you wanted to lay down Libertopia sounds a lot like modern Ukraine.
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Jun 7, 2016 21:35
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xwing posted:I do agree with the video that college is a great thing. Education is a key part of improving a society. I have had plenty of education myself... It however is not a right or mandate. Just because it's a good idea doesn't mean that we should always do it and the least intrusive means of making it happen is the government's job. We can argue over the details, but my default will always tend to be it's not the government's job and we can get things funded without reaching into collective pockets with taxes. I think the government is pretty lovely at spending our money because there's no incentive to do it well or under budget if they can just tax more. Whichever poster that it was is right that the perception is Smaug sitting on a treasure of gold hoarding it is how many see capitalism. I don't have a problem with that. A single person could have 90% of the wealth in the world and rather than taxing the crap out of that person I'd want us to look at ways to get that one person to spend and work with the 10% that's "ours" flowing in the economy. Taxes by their very nature are coercive and should be minimized. To me there are very few ideas that are so good that we should tax everyone, and by extension threaten to throw people in jail if they don't pay those taxes. People who do not wish to benefit from the community should not be part of the community. Taxes benefit everyone. And you should pay them happily. And yes, Education should be a RIGHT. It should be a mandate. The idea that you would honestly throw away Public Education because 'OMG COERCION!' is downright disgusting, because you directly benefit from an educated populace. xwing posted:Whichever poster that it was is right that the perception is Smaug sitting on a treasure of gold hoarding it is how many see capitalism. I don't have a problem with that. A single person could have 90% of the wealth in the world and rather than taxing the crap out of that person I'd want us to look at ways to get that one person to spend and work with the 10% that's "ours" flowing in the economy.  You realize Smaug gave NOTHING. You really don't grasp the comparison if you think its apt and right and still think Capitalism is just. You're one of those dense idiots that thinks greed is good, aren't you?xwing posted:To me there are very few ideas that are so good that we should tax everyone, and by extension threaten to throw people in jail if they don't pay those taxes. You are posting on the Internet. A device and system largely invented through tax based R&D. Likely, even, using telecom lines laid out through tax initiatives. Benefiting from a Fire service or Police service paid through taxes. Driving a car made safer through tax based research on vehicular safety. Probably, living in a smog free city thanks to tax based research on environmental pollution and, ironically, pollution that was negated through tax based initiatives that PAID companies NOT to pollute. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 21:47
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xwing posted:https://www.irs.gov/uac/related-statutes-and-penalties-general-fraud So, if you get caught, and then commit another, separate crime to avoid the consequences, you might get imprisoned? That is a different situation that you would have chosen to get yourself into. quote:The horseshit was that the verification they wanted didn't apply to how job searching worked in my field. For many it'd be fine, but it was a massive time waster and inflexible. I only even bothered with it because of the circumstances of my losing my job where I wanted to spite my old boss. I honestly didn't need the money, I was hired before I got a dime of unemployment. That's the same in every field, and it's in place because of people like Ron Paul whining about spending money on "welfare." And the fact that you didn't vote for it doesn't really matter. Society requires compromise by definition, and you don't get to opt out of the compromises you don't like without opting out of the rest. And even then, your options are nil. I won't pretend like moving to Somalia is an answer here, because it isn't any more than North Korea would be for a leftist who wants to avoid getting entangled in capitalist exploitation. Your options for escaping the reach of organized society are essentially nonexistent. Homesteading is a myth, and the "enough and as good" Locke relies on for his system to make sense is well and truly gone if it ever existed. So we have to start with the premise that we all live and interact with other people in a society, and work from there. Any ideology that tries to deny that has given up on reality entirely. All this is just guesswork though, because I still have no idea what your beliefs are. All we know so far is that there is some subset of Rand Paul's belief system that you agree with. What is the basis of your political philosophy?
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Jun 7, 2016 21:48
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Who What Now posted:So why is a company town good but a state bad, again? Stinky_Pete posted:Should the economy exist to serve people, or machines?
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Jun 7, 2016 21:48
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Seriously, xwing, do you know what the Gilded Age was?
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Jun 7, 2016 21:52
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RE: Liberia and Firestone: http://www.laborrights.org/blog/200804/firestone-child-labor-continues-liberia
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Jun 7, 2016 21:57
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Sedge and Bee posted:RE: Liberia and Firestone: Free Market! They are earning their keep!
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Jun 7, 2016 21:59
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I'd just like to take this moment to celebrate page 420. I will be transplanting my glorious California-grown clones later today, something everyone in this thread can appreciate. How auspicious! Also thanks for letting me know you'll be responding later, xwing. I am probably the newest leftist to this thread, so I'm not jaded by hundreds of posts into treating anyone who sounds remotely like jrod, like the scum of the earth. I just want you to see what I see, and maybe I'll see some things that you see and I don't as well. Stinky_Pete fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 22:03
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CommieGIR posted:Free Market! They are earning their keep! There's also widespread reports of human rights abuses, but I didn't feel like posting a bunch of links from my phone.
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Jun 7, 2016 22:08
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No, see, the barbed wire is to stop people from getting in.
Goon Danton fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 22:15
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Sedge and Bee posted:RE: Liberia and Firestone: Jobs so highly sought after the entire family pitches in! But they definitely aren't slaves, they can leave any time*. *to go starve to death and die
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Jun 7, 2016 22:42
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CommieGIR posted:You are posting on the Internet. A device and system largely invented through tax based R&D. Likely, even, using telecom lines laid out through tax initiatives. Benefiting from a Fire service or Police service paid through taxes. Driving a car made safer through tax based research on vehicular safety. Probably, living in a smog free city thanks to tax based research on environmental pollution and, ironically, pollution that was negated through tax based initiatives that PAID companies NOT to pollute. Okay, I hate libertarians too, and I find their ideology dangerous and actively harmful to the most vulnerable in society, but benefiting from a system is not the same as endorsing it. Before you point out that Ayn Rand drew social security benefits in the end (though I'll also point out her justification that it was "her money in the first place" passes muster, provided what she was paid out is less than or equal to the amount she paid in), I'll counter with something hilariously over-the-top but still true: Jesus preached on roads built by the empire that executed him. The internet example is also not as good an argument as you'd like, since you can also spin it the other way: communists and left-anarchists can't use smartphones without being hypocritical ingrates, as such things are products of oppressive capitalism. Appeals to the social contract can counter certain strains of libertarian thought, maybe, but it's not as strong an argument as many seem to think it is. Businesses and government both routinely confront people with a choice between "better-than-the-alternative conditions" and "extreme—but principled!—suffering". All humans are compromised, and it's a bit dishonest to present that as, in and of itself, evidence of failure on the part of whoever we're arguing with. You can argue that they're being bafflingly dense about the whole thing. A libertarian who seethes at the very system they must participate in to survive/succeed and wishes for it's destruction regardless is a lot more honest, and less reproachable, than a dipstick who's totally oblivious to the fact that maybe they enjoy some upsides under the status quo.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:03
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Curvature of Earth posted:Okay, I hate libertarians too, and I find their ideology dangerous and actively harmful to the most vulnerable in society, but benefiting from a system is not the same as endorsing it. Before you point out that Ayn Rand drew social security benefits in the end (though I'll also point out her justification that it was "her money in the first place" passes muster, provided what she was paid out is less than or equal to the amount she paid in), I'll counter with something hilariously over-the-top but still true: Jesus preached on roads built by the empire that executed him. Take it another way: Most major R&D advances largely benefit from Government Grants or Tax Payer based incentives. Most companies outside of the Pharmaceutical industry tend to have little reason to invest in intense R&D projects especially in the 2000s as R&D is seen as a net profit loss.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:08
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CommieGIR posted:Take it another way: Most major R&D advances largely benefit from Government Grants or Tax Payer based incentives. Most companies outside of the Pharmaceutical industry tend to have little reason to invest in intense R&D projects especially in the 2000s as R&D is seen as a net profit loss.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:11
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Nessus posted:Didn't companies spend a lot more on R&D when their tax rate was higher? Or was there something else going on there? Yes, largely because they got larger tax returns if they demonstrated: 1. That they were engaged in employing Americans 2. Conducting R&D that benefited the US.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:15
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Curvature of Earth posted:Okay, I hate libertarians too, and I find their ideology dangerous and actively harmful to the most vulnerable in society, but benefiting from a system is not the same as endorsing it. Before you point out that Ayn Rand drew social security benefits in the end (though I'll also point out her justification that it was "her money in the first place" passes muster, provided what she was paid out is less than or equal to the amount she paid in), I'll counter with something hilariously over-the-top but still true: Jesus preached on roads built by the empire that executed him. No, the reason it's pointed out those things had to be developed using tax money is because the free market would never have done it. When you are cursed with a vampiric profit thirst you're not going to piss money away on every scientist or engineer's random curiosity because nineteen times out of twenty you end up with nothing of financial worth. Or, you do end up with something that might one day be worth money, but a practical application for it won't be discovered for decades. Trying to flip it around and say "anti-capitalists hypocrites because iphone" is stupid, because as any anti-capitalist can tell you those things are made by humans labouring, they would still be made if tomorrow we abolished money and every single factory and engineering lab on earth turned into a co-op. And as discussed above they could only exist because 95% of the preparatory work happened in an environment entirely sheltered from capitalism.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:17
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It depends on the R&D, but if we go by pure research the only corporate-run research institution I know of that has ever been able to compete with actual research universities is Bell Labs, and that was a pretty drat special case for most of its history.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:23
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Cerebral Bore posted:It depends on the R&D, but if we go by pure research the only corporate-run research institution I know of that has ever been able to compete with actual research universities is Bell Labs, and that was a pretty drat special case for most of its history. Even then, Bell Labs got a ton of research contracts from various Government entities. http://business.time.com/2012/03/27/like-building-refrigerators-bell-labs-and-the-end-of-game-changing-innovation/ quote:Perhaps the most fundamental difference between the old and new Bell Labs was that its focus had become more constrained. In 1995, a Bell Labs researcher named Andrew Odlyzko, who worked as a manager in the mathematics department, circulated a paper he had written that considered what was happening to American technology and, in effect, the world of Bell Labs. Odlyzko pointed out that while it was easy to blame the narrowing ambitions on shortsighted management that aimed to turn a buck more quickly, the actual forces involved were somewhat more complex. “Unfettered research,” as Odlyzko termed it, was no longer a logical or necessary investment for a company. For one thing, it took far too long for an actual breakthrough to pay off as a commercial innovation—if it ever did. For another, the base of science was now so broad, thanks to work in academia as well as old industrial laboratories such as Bell Labs, that a company could profit merely by pursuing an incremental strategy rather than a game-changing discovery or invention.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:26
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CommieGIR posted:Even then, Bell Labs got a ton of research contracts from various Government entities. Well, that and being owned and underwritten by an enormously profitable legal monopoly for most of its existence.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:30
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Cerebral Bore posted:Well, that and being owned and underwritten by an enormously profitable legal monopoly for most of its existence. Who then severed one of the best R&D groups in the world in the name of 'profit'
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Jun 7, 2016 23:33
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CommieGIR posted:Who then severed one of the best R&D groups in the world in the name of 'profit' Look, obviously it can't have been that good if it wasn't going to turn a profit next quarter.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:36
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Xwing, assuming the following: • You are an adult and have completed your education • You are skilled in your chosen vocation • You'd prefer to be in a not-a-society that is closer to your ideals and based on your political leanings: • Education and other social services should be provided by anyone other than  THE STATE • You don't like being coerced by MEN WITH GUNS into paying taxes• Welfare is the wilful expropriation of justly-earned private property and would be unnecessary in THE FREE MARKET • You shouldn't have to pay for LEECHERS AND MOOCHERS to get fat off the government teat• You could be much more than you are today, perhaps even a Captain of Industry, if it wasn't for that meddling government ... why don't you move to Somalia, which fits all the above? No central government expropriating your property, no onerous laws and regulations keeping you down, a thriving private sector heavily subsidised by piracy and toxic waste disposal—just the possibility for a get-up-and-go chap like yourself to stand on his own two feet and show us statists how we could be living large purely off the sweat of our own brows. You'd have the freedom to bring up and educate your children in your own way, by paying a private-sector educator, and could be sure that they too would make it on their own, without being brainwashed or mooched off of by Some details above may be exaggerated, but my point and question stand. Weatherman fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 23:40
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Curvature of Earth posted:Okay, I hate libertarians too, and I find their ideology dangerous and actively harmful to the most vulnerable in society, but benefiting from a system is not the same as endorsing it. Before you point out that Ayn Rand drew social security benefits in the end (though I'll also point out her justification that it was "her money in the first place" passes muster, provided what she was paid out is less than or equal to the amount she paid in), I'll counter with something hilariously over-the-top but still true: Jesus preached on roads built by the empire that executed him. The short answer is that the internet as designed isn't possible without the state, you can invent the technology all you want but the policy and community cooperation in order for it to function literally requires state level power. The same goes for use of the electromagnetic spectrum. People here are probably echoing the gist of the argument that's been hashed out before with the banished one. Also smart phones are not a product of capitalism, though their ubiquitous nature in developed counties is. I say this boldly because there are other drivers for the development of technology than can I commercialize this and sell it to consumers, though that is an excellent way to get private entities to get into the game. It is a failure of a person to assert the destruction or reduction of the state to allow their freedom when by human nature they may not be the ones to pay the price. It is irresponsible to tolerate a world view that assumes the divine walks among us and only the corrupt and evil will wage war on the common good, the greedy and the negligent and even the accidental(!) will hurt the innocent all the same. Libertarians call for a perfect world to be freed from the obligations of considering others, which would work fine, if not for human error, and literally everything else.
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Jun 8, 2016 00:36
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QuarkJets posted:In libertopia you'd have to bribe someone for every 10 feet of cable that you wanted to lay down, so it wouldn't really be practical there, either. If there's a network at all, it's likely run by the DRO. And you'd only be able to access content on your DRO's network and whatever nearby places have also contracted with the DRO. It'd look a lot less like the Internet and a lot more like a university LAN I never said that, this is great stress relief
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Jun 8, 2016 00:43
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Literally The Worst posted:I never said that, this is great stress relief If you don't want the thread to slow down then you should probably stop trying to run xwing out of the thread. Shitposting like yours is exactly what he said he was worried about so maybe you can go start a general libertarian mock thread in gbs, seems like reading here and shitposting there would be the best of both worlds
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Jun 8, 2016 01:50
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Stinky_Pete posted:That's fair. I meant to say that your lack of sympathy in particular, from the way you described it, must come (in my eyes) from a lack of perspective (or maybe just a "different" perspective), because I understand my sympathy as coming from the perspective I've gained across my education and my mother's work with disadvantaged students. We are not that different I'd say. I'm going to my mother's retirement this week. She's taught at a disadvantaged school for 20+ years. I attended that disadvantaged school... and where we lived for quite a while. Of my classes, two are dead after being gunned down. I also know two that I still keep up with that are very successful (completed graduate work and in good fields). I'd also like to point to a set of twins I remember from that school. They were raised by their Grandmother because Mom and dad were in jail. They were young, black and angry. They raised hell in class and detracted from everyone's education. One is in jail. The other I met the last time I visted my mom at work... he was picking up his little girl who attended the school. He has a solid job and a good kid. I do agree with you below that incentive for a better future is a powerful motivator. For him it was his daughter. The "system" doesn't determine your outcome. I'm okay with that being considered "weirdly individualistic". I also did my thesis work in school on disaster relief. It's one of the reasons I've been to Liberia. So while I don't take too much offense to poo poo talk on an internet forum... I find it a bit irksome to suggest I'm racist and hate the poor. Stinky_Pete posted:It's just that when I hear "Rand Paul," I think of someone who fights against women's access to abortion, who uses the Federal Reserve as a red herring for corporate excess and subsidy, imposes a religious categorization of marriage, and offers token statements about drug rehabilitation instead of incarceration but doesn't prioritize it. I'm hesitant to go down the rabbit hole because it ends up being an unproductive talk where it's like I'm getting demanded a political questionnaire. If it will satisfy the goons... -Abortion: The current situation is probably as good as it gets. Personally I' find abortion morally corrupt. I also know banning it would do nothing to help women who are in real tough situations. If you're referring to opposing Planned Parenthood... I agree with that but not because it's abortions. I don't think subsidizing any third party is something we should be doing. -I agree with him on auditing the Fed. Coincidentally if I'm remembering correctly Bernie was one of two Democrats to support this. -"Imposes a religious categorization on marriage"... I'm not sure here. Are you referring to marriage vs. civil unions? Either way, I don't agree with him here. I'd prefer that relationships not be a part of government at all. -You're right he doesn't prioritize it. He does talk about it though. Did you notice at the Primary Debates that they didn't bother asking others about it? Even at the Democratic ones they only pitched related questions of that to Bernie. To the other goons: -I didn't address the CRA comments because as I already stated I find the insinuation that he's a segregationist absurd. Rand was only asked in relation to his father's stance and he said he had a bit of issue with parts that address private businesses. He's never advocated for it's repeal or even the amendment of the parts he had issue with. I personally don't know the ins and outs of the Civil Rights Act to even know if I would have issue with them. I certainly wouldn't advocate for it's repeal. Stinky_Pete posted:I would like to discuss labor practices as they relate to undocumented immigrants at another juncture, but for now I will just say that I personally support amnesty and citizenship so that presently undocumented workers can get more protections. In broad strokes that's more or less agreeable to me and how I feel as well. The debate is other stuff regarding bringing them into the fold of being "documented". Stinky_Pete posted:Are you saying he shouldn't have defended himself with his 2nd amendment rights? All it says in the video was "some people came after me"... but I gather he was 17 at the time. Rights of minors are abridged and he was already breaking laws by having a handgun and carrying it. I'm also guessing he's in a state that has a duty to retreat in addition to it's not a hard case to sell that a minor who's illegally carrying has intent to do harm, and thus get's a murder trial. This is kind of getting away though... and pretty much reinforces what I was getting at. He made a ton of choices that ended up getting him in jail. Choices that aren't forced on anyone by their circumstances. Stinky_Pete posted:Have you considered that the availability of higher education, how realistic the college or community college option is for young students in dire circumstances, influences their behavior in the aggregate? That perhaps the education carrot will lead to us spending less on prisons, leading to net savings and a smaller government budget in the long run? Even California, with its world-class public college system, is spending more per prisoner than it is per student. I certainly wouldn't discount that. Though I'm not sure availability is an issue... there's a minefield of life ahead of college. I'd think that not sitting in jail is a "carrot" in it's own right. I don't really see that there's a disconnect between looking for funding outside of the government and taxing to make higher education freely available a possibility. We could dangle the "carrot" of repatriating money by corporations to fund the idea. I'm not saying by any means I have the answer. I'm going to protest though the default that it "needs" to be the government to make it happen. Hell maybe if we quit the war on drugs the prison situation will sort itself out. Stinky_Pete posted:I repeat here the request for evidence that isn't an old tired DMV joke.* In a democracy, the presiding government can only tax as much as the populace will be content enough with to not overwhelmingly elect their opposition. As it stands, your Smaug has disproportionate electoral influence because a greater proportion of his wealth is necessary for sustaining his life than is the wealth held by the masses. That seems very undemocratic to me. And this Smaug can't be put in jail because he is truly a hydra named Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, and Koch Industries. Do you support campaign finance reform? These holders of wealth are organizational machines, and to secure some of the pelf which flows out and back into their pile, we must ultimately serve their interest. Should the economy exist to serve people, or machines? I don't know how I feel on campaign finance reform as a whole. I am pretty disgusted with the bailouts and the whole situation that that formed from on many sides. I do feel that the massive growth of government has helped foster the ability to serve business over people and we shouldn't necessarily be asking if more regulation/laws is the solution to the issue. Sedge and Bee posted:RE: Liberia and Firestone: I didn't say they were perfect or I condoned all things that happen there. This is a country that pretty much lost a generation to civil war... it's not going to meet first world humanitarian standards. I was merely pointing out that they do far more than the average in Liberia... I figured actually having been there would provide some insight. CommieGIR posted:People who do not wish to benefit from the community should not be part of the community. Taxes benefit everyone. And you should pay them happily. Do you salute and sing God Bless America when you pay your taxes?  America was formed by "shove your taxes"... no I don't happily pay taxes. I would like us to scrutinize every drat thing taxes pay for and seriously ask if the benefit outweighs the cost. ESPECIALLY considering we're borrowing to sustain our levels of spending. Even then, it's a serious issue and I'm sorry it doesn't then make it a right... if you think that get the amendment process going.I never suggested that public education go away either. The specific video was about college education.
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Jun 8, 2016 02:07
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xwing posted:America was formed by "shove your taxes" as spoken by a bunch of white businessmen who didn't want to pay money, not the regular rear end folks who would have theoretically benefitted from services if they existed you dork
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Jun 8, 2016 02:10
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xwing posted:Do you salute and sing God Bless America when you pay your taxes? No, the US was formed, in theory, on the basis of shove your taxes without us seeing the benefit of them. Your taxes sustain the state, the state sustains your entire society. You need your society, whatever you might believe, you should be glad of paying your taxes.
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Jun 8, 2016 02:13
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xwing posted:Do you salute and sing God Bless America when you pay your taxes? College should be subsidized. Right now, its a massive profit generator for banks and debt creator for students and is heavily weighing our generation with immense and often insurmountable debt. Not only that, but college is being priced out of reach of middle class and especially lower class students. Are you saying they have no right to education, often the only method to escaping poverty, without inheriting massive poverty in turn? You are basically saying that wage slavery and placing massive debts upon people is okay because 'Free Market', and that's loving atrocious. And already covered, but the Colonists issue with taxes was not the being taxed part, but being taxed without a say in Parliament. Had they been given representation in Parliament, chances are they wouldn't have cared in the least. The best part about the Tea Tax was it was purposefully implemented to PROTECT A COMPANY. What, you think Free Market is about fair trade and competition? gently caress no, those guys will nail each other to the wall and screw each other at every turn. quote:The principal objective was to reduce the massive amount of tea held by the financially troubled British East India Company in its London warehouses and to help the struggling company survive. And actually, right now, our spending is actually doing better than the Bush legacy. Remember: Bush inherited a surplus. So, no, the issue is not our spending, its what its being spent on, like a decade plus long war. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 8, 2016 02:16
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Random request: I asked this in another thread a while back but lost the post. Can I get some recommendations on good books about corporate greed and collusion with governments?
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Jun 8, 2016 02:16
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xwing posted:
Only a few select taxes, the colonists had been fine paying other taxes directly and indirectly for literally over a century by that point. It wasn't even all taxes they hadn't been consulted on either.
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Jun 8, 2016 02:18
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xwing posted:Do you salute and sing God Bless America when you pay your taxes? "No taxation without representation!" Yup guys! Totally says right there, we shouldn't pay taxes!
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Jun 8, 2016 02:27
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YF19pilot posted:"No taxation without representation!" I love that he thinks taxes are coercive and aggressive, but charging outrageous amounts for a college degree, debt held by a bank, is a-okay and in no way coercive. Because something that is basically seen as essential to escaping poverty should be priced out of the hands of the lower and middle class  If the IRS is 'coercive', collections agencies and banks are the loving Russian Mob.
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Jun 8, 2016 02:29
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So has xwing said whether or not they believe the Civil Rights Act should be repealed like the Pauls do?
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Jun 8, 2016 02:31
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xwing posted:If it will satisfy the goons... Abortion is morally corrupt but we shouldn't adopt the best known method of reducing the abortion rate: ensuring universal affordable access to contraceptives because it costs a few pennies in taxes (even though the inevitable outcome of eschewing affordable contraception and just as importantly maternal health for poor women is even more costly)? 
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Jun 8, 2016 02:34
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White Coke posted:So has xwing said whether or not they believe the Civil Rights Act should be repealed like the Pauls do? He said he doesn't think it should be, but also seems to think that its no big deal that the Pauls think it should be because they never actually legislate for it. He also called abortion "morally corrupt" and thinks things as they stand right now is the best we can hope for, which I guess makes sense coming from him considering the number of states in which having an abortion has been made de facto illegal for most people.
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Jun 8, 2016 02:36
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VitalSigns posted:Abortion is morally corrupt but we shouldn't adopt the best known method of reducing the abortion rate: ensuring universal affordable access to contraceptives because it costs a few pennies in taxes (even though the inevitable outcome of eschewing affordable contraception and just as importantly maternal health for poor women is even more costly)? Jesus gently caress I totally missed that one. xwing, do you buy into the Planned Parenthood poorly edited videos? xwing posted:I also did my thesis work in school on disaster relief. It's one of the reasons I've been to Liberia. So while I don't take too much offense to poo poo talk on an internet forum... I find it a bit irksome to suggest I'm racist and hate the poor. I want to know more. Because I can only imagine that you have some really reprehensible ideas about what counts as disaster relief.
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Jun 8, 2016 02:38
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paragon1 posted:He said he doesn't think it should be, but also seems to think that its no big deal that the Pauls think it should be because they never actually legislate for it. He also called abortion "morally corrupt" and thinks things as they stand right now is the best we can hope for, which I guess makes sense coming from him considering the number of states in which having an abortion has been made de facto illegal for most people. He thinks that Rand doesn't want to repeal the CRA and just has some objections to certain parts of it. Rand has generally been a bit more careful than his father so that's probably accurate but I don't actually know
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Jun 8, 2016 02:45
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