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Kairo posted:Do you mean in the mission or the starmap?
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Jun 8, 2016 19:11
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Kairo posted:Do you mean in the mission or the starmap? In mission, on a 660M, which is frankly surprising that it runs the rest of it as well as it does. It gets gradually worse as the bombardment goes on but then calms back down once the nukes stop falling.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:12
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Bhodi posted:Having the planet in view in the last mission is brutal in VR, but I have a somewhat substandard PC so I just rolled with it. I am using pooling to remove old ones as new ones are spawned. Maybe I just need to lower that limit, and I bet people will never know. Thanks guys. Edit: Just dropped the pool from 16 to 9 (they fire in volleys of three anyways). Will be in next update.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:14
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I mean it looks super cool as the fighting starts, and you get an occasional glimpse as you're flipping around the field, but it's not like you have time to really enjoy the scenery on that mission for most of it. Especially if you're going to make the Harbinger run even more jam packed. E: Also in ~*balance thoughts*~ AP on the shotgun is maybe too good given what you can do to enemy capitals.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:15
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Is there any word on whether multiple-controllers will be implemented? I don't own a gamepad, and am bumming pretty hard that I cant use my warthog and pedals. 
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Jun 8, 2016 19:23
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MrYenko posted:Is there any word on whether multiple-controllers will be implemented? I don't own a gamepad, and am bumming pretty hard that I cant use my warthog and pedals. Someone just posted that the advanced settings on my middleware might let me support this. I'm gonna turn it on in the beta branch for the next update. I have no idea what I'm doing.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:32
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MrYenko posted:Is there any word on whether multiple-controllers will be implemented? I don't own a gamepad, and am bumming pretty hard that I cant use my warthog and pedals. I've been using a steam controller but it's just incredibly frustrating knowing how much more fun it would be with my stick and pedals. Also I don't know if it's just the controller, but is roll gimped on purpose ( similar to the decision ED took with yaw) ?
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Jun 8, 2016 19:32
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I would kill for a small lead indicator. Also drifting flipping around and blowing up the stream of missiles that are hounding your rear end is loving awesomeMrYenko posted:Is there any word on whether multiple-controllers will be implemented? I don't own a gamepad, and am bumming pretty hard that I cant use my warthog and pedals. You can combine them into 1 single device in TARGET so you can use them in game
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Jun 8, 2016 19:34
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Banano posted:I've been using a steam controller but it's just incredibly frustrating knowing how much more fun it would be with my stick and pedals. It isn't gimped on a keyboard  I'd look at your sensitivity settings.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:34
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Banano posted:I've been using a steam controller but it's just incredibly frustrating knowing how much more fun it would be with my stick and pedals. You feel like roll is too slow? Since there is no gameplay consequence for it, I just set it something that seemed comfy to me.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:35
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As someone who prefers to roll then pull to turn it could definitely be faster.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:35
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Faster rolls would be pretty nice, since we don't have an all-round transparent cockpit. Helps with situational awareness, though I assume the tactical map mode is there for that reason.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:36
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Kairo posted:Someone just posted that the advanced settings on my middleware might let me support this. I'm gonna turn it on in the beta branch for the next update. Thanks Kairo!  If you need warthog-owning testers (that also don't know what they're doing,) PM me, or email to my username at the geemail.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:37
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Having spent several tries bashing my head against Harbinger Tannhauser Gate before I finally beat it, I loved the difficulty and once I figured out the trick for that mission I found myself wishing a lot of the other missions were that difficult. Alternatively, the final mission doesn't seem to have much difference between difficulties etc. I think I'm gonna play through everything on Harbinger again and write up some notes.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:39
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FordPRefectLL posted:Having spent several tries bashing my head against Harbinger Tannhauser Gate before I finally beat it, I loved the difficulty and once I figured out the trick for that mission I found myself wishing a lot of the other missions were that difficult. Yeah the final mission can use some more units on the high end. Funny enough it is one of the most boring missions terrain-wise so just adding more units tends to make the combat feel worse. Maybe I can find some way to put some more goddamn asteroids in orbit. I agree about the game being easy. It's funny though, how some people (who are fairly skilled gamers) are being challenged even on normal. The skill range in a game like this is WAY wider than I expected, and I suspect even way larger than something like Halo. It's been really interesting.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:44
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I don''t know, tannhauser gate was the only mission I found difficult too, except it wasn't really "good" difficulty, since it depended pretty much entirely on how well my fleet did. I did pretty much the exact same thing when I demolished it as I did on the couple tries where I lost, the only difference is when I won my fleet managed to kill their two targets without getting murdered.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:45
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Bolow posted:
saitek pedals so I can't unfortunately
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Jun 8, 2016 19:51
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Kairo posted:I agree about the game being easy. It's funny though, how some people (who are fairly skilled gamers) are being challenged even on normal. The skill range in a game like this is WAY wider than I expected, and I suspect even way larger than something like Halo. It's been really interesting. The (mildly) interesting part here is that I am not actually someone who normally plays anything on hard. I never did Halo legendary etc I usually just play for the story. For the final mission I think what might help is actually shielding up all 3 initial packs of destroyers and maybe popping a carrier in alongside the boss flagship IMO. The damage sponge that is that big battleship should be able to handle that stuff but it might get a bit more frantic that way. TastyAvocado posted:I don''t know, tannhauser gate was the only mission I found difficult too, except it wasn't really "good" difficulty, since it depended pretty much entirely on how well my fleet did. I did pretty much the exact same thing when I demolished it as I did on the couple tries where I lost, the only difference is when I won my fleet managed to kill their two targets without getting murdered. A big tip for Tannhauser Gate is killing all the reinforcement civilians first. It's the only mission I found the gap drive helpful/useful because the far right pair of reinforcers jump first. Here's how I did that mission, basically: Immediately gap to the far right reinforcers, order your two other interceptors to start working on the left reinforcers. After you finish the right reinforcers, your gap drive should be recharged or almost recharged. Gap to the closest transports to you (the right pack) and get inside their shields and bomb them with your superweapon, you should be able to down both pretty quickly. By this point, your interceptors should have handled the left pack, but there's a single lone reinforcer you can put one on. I change to the 2nd interceptor closest to those ones since it'll be right next to the transports and bomb them with the superweapon. You'll have the primary objective done within the first couple minutes this way, and then at this point you just focus on killing the bonus objectives without having to worry about reinforcements.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:54
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Orv posted:As someone who prefers to roll then pull to turn it could definitely be faster.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:54
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FordPRefectLL posted:Here's how I did that mission, basically: Also, as far as I can tell, you cannot reach the far right reinforcers with speed mods + longshot, I tried a bunch before I went and got gap drive and came back and re-tried it.
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Jun 8, 2016 19:58
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I did the same, without the gap drive. Edit: except I completely ignored the reinforcers because I had to to kill the targets before they warped out.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:00
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How'd you do it without the gap?
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Jun 8, 2016 20:01
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I can turn the roll up a little. I worry that it might have unknown VR consequences (unknown = barfy) so I'm gonna do it a little bit at a time.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:04
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Kairo posted:I have no idea what I'm doing. New thread title: House of the Dying Sun: Kairo - I have no idea what I'm doing.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:04
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TastyAvocado posted:Edit: except I completely ignored the reinforcers because I had to to kill the targets before they warped out. Ah, alright. I wanted to kill the reinforcers so I could just leisurely mop up the bonus enemies afterwards.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:05
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Kairo posted:I can turn the roll up a little. I worry that it might have unknown VR consequences (unknown = barfy) so I'm gonna do it a little bit at a time. note that 'm using a steam controller where the right 'stick' is that weird haptic touchpad thing - I'm guessing on things with proper thumbsticks it's probably fine?
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Jun 8, 2016 20:08
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Also this might be unpopular to say but AP ammo could probably use a nerf. Once I got it I never unequipped it for any of the other upgrades.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:09
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Legit feedback after playing for a couple hours (~3) last night. I think I am getting close to the end but I have a couple missions left to do. A lot of this is going to sound overly critical but none of it should be taken as  because I'm really having to dig down deep to find anything negative to say.I've been doing everything first on Harbinger to give it a shot, then after a couple tries if I'm not succeeding I'd go back to the base difficulty. Run through it first that way, then do Warlord, then attempt harbinger again. It's been giving me a really good look at difference between the various difficulty levels, and they're pretty well distributed in my opinion. I am about an average or maybe slightly better than average skilled player, playing with KBM controls. I think I failed a mission once on normal, and that was my own stupidity cutting a drift too close to a destroyer or something and then peacing out into a fighter that was 1-2 seconds away from getting impacted by a spread of missiles. Normal is definitely way way too easy even for a casual player. Warlord is very well balanced in general, but still tends more towards the easy end of the spectrum. On the other end of the spectrum, Harbinger isn't terrible all around, but I am not at all a fan of the "higher difficulty = more enemies" mindset. The complexity of the objectives increased, which is excellent, but clogging the space with enemies was much less fun. I like being forced to prioritize and think dynamically about how to achieve mission objectives. What I don't like is when you're too occupied with dodging enemy fire blanketing space around you from a bazillion enemies to actually think creatively, and the ability to pause doesn't help that. Force concentration becomes the only strategy on Harbinger and I'd like the more Flotilla-like elements that went into the unit design to matter more, e.g. Destroyers and frigates are way too vulnerable to fighters, and frigates especially being somewhat railroaded tactically in particular. Yes there are somewhat broken loadouts that compensate for this, but imo that's a non-solution. Ideally a wide combination of upgrades would be viable on Harbinger difficulty. Instead there are maybe 1-2 and this hurts the replayability aspect as well. People have already mentioned a perceptible lack of content but I'm not going to ding a one-man show on that ever, not even slightly, no matter how long you've spent on the game. Aside from the above problems specific to Harbinger difficulty, balance is overall very good. The engine is incredibly well optimized and the the entire art aesthetic, from the screen transitions to the sound design to the art design all the way to the core motifs of the game, is loving inspired in its consistency and quality. I'm not exaggerating in the slightest. Gameplay wise, I feel the same way. I have a couple nitpicks about the feedback given to the player, but honestly they're nitpicks in the worst sense of the word. Situational awareness is a constant problem (another issue that is exacerbated on Harbinger) and I was still having trouble orienting myself in relation to enemies in 3D space even after a few hours of familiarization. Now that's a learning curve, but it's a pretty sharp one considering by the time you've probably gotten used to the feel of things you've also probably completed the full game. I also found it difficult to tell where enemy fire was coming from most of the time, that could just be my idiocy though. Everything else is fantastic and the game is exceptionally fun to play, sometimes brutally so.  Drifting owns and I loving love the Diaspora-like qualities it brings to the table. Some of the weapons could use a bit more "ooomph," but I felt that was a conscious design decision relating to replicating the effects of space realistically so that's not much of a criticism as it is a personal perception. Now for a wishlist item: I would kill for some kind of low-effort-required implementation of an "endless mode" or something where you're given a fleet (maybe an option to select by difficulty, custom select, or fully randomly generated) and face larger and larger waves of enemies. The reinforcement by kill count mechanic is already there and I'd hazard a guess at the risk of being wrong that it wouldn't be comparatively much extra work to make that extend to capitals somehow. Build a framework for the game mode, do some quick balancing with wave sizes, and boom, DLC content that directly addresses replayability. I still have to finish the game and unlock a few more upgrades, but I'm not sure my opinions above are going to change much by it. Solid purchase overall, and will recommend to others. Thank you Kairo for delivering, and when you push it out of early access I think you're going to end up with solid platinum.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:10
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FordPRefectLL posted:Also this might be unpopular to say but AP ammo could probably use a nerf. Once I got it I never unequipped it for any of the other upgrades. You're probably right. Damage buffs are usually super OP or worthless. What might be better is giving you a downside. Like, making shield damage worthless, or giving you less armor. HiroProtagonist posted:... Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I totally agree with a lot of it, especially about clogging up encounters on the high end. It's something that is a constant albatross in mission design. I might try to rely on making more elite versions of ships. For example, I have beam destroyers with ion cannons in the nose that I never use because they are loving brutal to go up against, but maybe this is the kind of punishment you guys need.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:17
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Kairo posted:...but maybe this is the kind of punishment you guys need. Do we get to choose a safeword? Like, "Pancakes!"?
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Jun 8, 2016 20:21
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The issue with dropping the shield damage on AP rounds is that AP shotgun means you just float inside the shield and blow it away without caring about the shields. As for more elite units, or unit variation, that'd be a good way to do things, but things like shielded rebel frigates are already an immense pain and that might be a step too nasty. Be interested in seeing it though.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:25
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Don't get rid of enemies on Harbinger, the missions are already too easy on Harbinger and we need more poo poo to shoot! I want to be able to add a couple carriers to every mission.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:28
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I have killed the flagship on every mission up through Broodmother. Soon space will be purged of heretical flags.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:30
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The beta branch has support for binding 3+ joysticks. Give it a go!
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Jun 8, 2016 20:32
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Kairo posted:You're probably right. Damage buffs are usually super OP or worthless. What might be better is giving you a downside. Like, making shield damage worthless, or giving you less armor. Yeah, I used the machine gun, shotgun, shields and AP for the entire game and it felt like the opportunity cost of every other upgrade made them feel worthless. The rifle was cool but ultimately felt much worse than the machine gun because it spends more time reloading than shooting. Missiles and the EMP are only good against heavy fighters, the only thing in the game you need shield damage for, but I just got my destroyers with missiles to hit them. Good game, I enjoyed it a lot. Brought me back to TIE Fighter. General Battuta posted:Don't get rid of enemies on Harbinger, the missions are already too easy on Harbinger and we need more poo poo to shoot! I want to be able to add a couple carriers to every mission. Yeah I agree, almost every level was pretty much trivial even on harbinger so I'd recommend against making them easier!
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Jun 8, 2016 20:33
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If you could somehow ratchet up the pressure and tempo of Harbinger missions without adding or losing too many units, I think that might be the way to go. I did every single mission on Harbinger first and while the combat was great and the fleet stuff was cool, I never felt any real pressure or threat aside from Tanhauser and occasionally a frigate or carrier had a missile boner for me. I'm not sure how you'd turn up the threat without just drowning the player in strike craft though, I don't level design.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:38
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Kairo posted:I can turn the roll up a little. I worry that it might have unknown VR consequences (unknown = barfy) so I'm gonna do it a little bit at a time. Banano posted:note that 'm using a steam controller where the right 'stick' is that weird haptic touchpad thing - I'm guessing on things with proper thumbsticks it's probably fine? egh, just tried keyboard inputs for roll and it's the same. It just really sluggish compared to the other axes. In space games vs flight sims the roll rate is much less unbalancing than yaw but who knows what unintended consequences it might have - i could live with the initial impulse being as slow as it is now but please speed it up a bit with continued input? Kairo posted:The beta branch has support for binding 3+ joysticks. Give it a go! 
Banano fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 8, 2016 20:38
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Kairo posted:I can turn the roll up a little. I worry that it might have unknown VR consequences (unknown = barfy) so I'm gonna do it a little bit at a time. Please give us VR users to revert back to the old one just in case. 
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Jun 8, 2016 20:42
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The only thing I can really gripe about is not being able to look around without VR or trackIR. It'd be nice to be able to hold a key down to toggle the right stick between roll and look direction (maybe being able to pick whether the default is look or roll), but I don't if there's a button available for that. Direct mapping from stick position to camera position.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:43
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keyframe posted:Please give us VR users to revert back to the old one just in case. roll is hugely quicker in ED and I had no problems there. My only concern would be for game balance but I suspect it's much less of an issue because yaw is far more useful anyway.
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Jun 8, 2016 20:44
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