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Lady Naga posted:Oh well I never realized it's that simple. If something is good; it's broken. Thanks for clearing that up. you're really bad at reading things hanzo's arrow has a hitbox that isn't "good," it's kinda dumb; widowmaker being more dumb than hanzo does not make hanzo less dumb; hanzo's arrows having out of control hitboxes doesn't vault hanzo to the top of whatever imaginary tier list you've worked out in your head, it's just an unsatisfying mechanical thing that deserves to be fixed and/or improved you're welcome EDIT: also I guess we can all pack it up now, Tracer is demonstrably Not Good according to that graph
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Jun 8, 2016 21:35
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guts and bolts posted:you're really bad at reading things If it was an actual issue then Hanzo would be played more than Widowmaker because it would be easier to get more kills as him. Like, I don't really understand how this is hard to grasp? If something is broken it'll be immediately pounced on and used until either it's banned or fixed.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:38
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I would hope that nobody is still trying to argue that hanzo is in fact good. (He can be fun or capable of being on winning teams and/or getting kills but that doesn't make him good)
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Jun 8, 2016 21:38
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Zoness posted:I would hope that nobody is still trying to argue that hanzo is in fact good. Yeah b-bub-but the hitboxes!!!!!
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Jun 8, 2016 21:39
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Countblanc posted:no the problem is whichever team wins that mini-game gets to play the yoshi's island end of level theme really loud and go on a 30 second rampage In TF2 I roll my eyes at the concept of 'counter-sniping.' If you switch to sniper to deal with a sniper you've already lost to him, even if you are the better sniper. In overwatch though, I don't see many options. I run into godlike widowmakers a lot and they will ruin a team if left unchecked. And how do you counter a widowmaker? A widowmaker of your own or huddle behind rein. Seriously how do you deal with a really good widowmaker that doesn't involve switching to widowmaker or defaulting to her hard counter as rein? Stay out of her sniper lanes for the for the entire match? What if you have to push through a lane?
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Jun 8, 2016 21:40
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I counter Widow by putting an ice wall in her face because Mei is fun.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:41
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Sanctum posted:He's right that going widowmaker to counter widowmaker is a problem though. Switch to Epic Winston
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Jun 8, 2016 21:42
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Sanctum posted:Seriously how do you deal with a really good widowmaker that doesn't involve switching to widowmaker or defaulting to her hard counter as rein? Dual Winston is about the only answer, but that requires solid team coordination. If I'm absolutely desperate and she's not in some unreachable location, I'll go Roadhog, perform the world's most obvious flank and try to hook her for an instant kill.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:42
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guts and bolts posted:you're really bad at reading things hanzo has to shoot small projectiles that dont have splash impact so he needs something and also he sucks so w/e
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Jun 8, 2016 21:42
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Lady Naga posted:If it was an actual issue then Hanzo would be played more than Widowmaker because it would be easier to get more kills as him. Like, I don't really understand how this is hard to grasp? If something is broken it'll be immediately pounced on and used until either it's banned or fixed. things can be stupid, strong, broken, or whatever without being immediately applicable, and I'm not sure why that's really, really hard for you to wrap your head around, or why all of your counterarguments are things that provide no context and even less sense being able to shoot guys in the thigh and have the game count it as a headshot isn't "broken" for whatever definition you're trying to use for it and nobody is arguing that Hanzo is very good or overpowered or any of that poo poo it is a bad thing that should be fixed because it's incredibly dumb and unsatisfying plenty of other poo poo stops Hanzo from being good, and I believe personally that he is in fact very bad, but "Widowmaker is OP so Hanzo's hitboxes are fine" is a completely weird, specious argument to try to make Zoness posted:I would hope that nobody is still trying to argue that hanzo is in fact good. I don't think Hanzo is good but then I also don't think Pharah is good and she got picked enough to surprise me
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Jun 8, 2016 21:43
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anime was right posted:hanzo has to shoot small projectiles that dont have splash impact so he needs something and also he sucks so w/e I agree that he needs something, I just don't think that something should be "ridiculously bad hitboxes" is all like, for the same reason I actually like the concept of McCree as an anti-flanker who can delete Tracer at will but don't think he should just own so much of the cast every 10 seconds essentially for free
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Jun 8, 2016 21:44
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If they "fixed" hanzo hitboxes literally nobody would ever play him ever because, and this might be surprising, being a sniper firing relatively slow-moving projectiles that travel in an arc is really, really hard and requires some kind of compensation to even remotely measure up to hitscan weapons. In a world without Hanzo hitboxes McCree is a better sniper than Hanzo.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:46
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One Winston is enough to deal with Widowmaker, I don't know why you'd need two. You jump in, zap her a bunch after putting your shield down so she can't use her auto rifle. If she runs away, whatever, just wait for her to start shooting again and do it again.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:46
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Lady Naga posted:If they "fixed" hanzo hitboxes literally nobody would ever play him ever because, and this might be surprising, being a sniper firing relatively slow-moving projectiles that travel in an arc is really, really hard and requires some kind of compensation to even remotely measure up to hitscan weapons. In a world without Hanzo hitboxes McCree is a better sniper than Hanzo. You say that as if it'd be a bad thing.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:46
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Thoughtless posted:You say that as if it'd be a bad thing. hurr durr sniper bad me casual cant deal with headshoot pls fix PantsBandit posted:One Winston is enough to deal with Widowmaker, I don't know why you'd need two. You jump in, zap her a bunch after putting your shield down so she can't use her auto rifle. If she runs away, whatever, just wait for her to start shooting again and do it again.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:47
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Lady Naga posted:If they "fixed" hanzo hitboxes literally nobody would ever play him ever because, and this might be surprising, being a sniper firing relatively slow-moving projectiles that travel in an arc is really, really hard and requires some kind of compensation to even remotely measure up to hitscan weapons. In a world without Hanzo hitboxes McCree is a better sniper than Hanzo. that means they should fix and improve Hanzo, not just leave him in a bad, broken state and call it a day because "well if he doesn't have this one dumb thing mechanically he's unplayable!" he's already essentially unplayable, except every third game or so you die and on killcam you're like "wuh?" and everyone in your Discord chat laughs about Hanzo headshots this is a pretty bleak state to be in, and more to the point makes him essentially unbuffable, because if you improve Hanzo without fixing the fact that he can headshot you if he has the aim to hit the broad side of a barn, those bad hitboxes will become a nightmare
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Jun 8, 2016 21:48
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just make his future arrows blow up if theyre in certain proximity to someone like hawkeye's future arrows
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Jun 8, 2016 21:48
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they should replace hanzo's hitboxes with hitcrates or hitbags
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Jun 8, 2016 21:49
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guts and bolts posted:that means they should fix and improve Hanzo, not just leave him in a bad, broken state and call it a day because "well if he doesn't have this one dumb thing mechanically he's unplayable!" Literally the only way to "fix and improve" Hanzo if you get rid of the extended hitbox is to make him a different class.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:49
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Lady Naga posted:Literally the only way to "fix and improve" Hanzo if you get rid of the extended hitbox is to make him a different class. so be it then, because right now he's bad and unsatisfying to both play as and play against "let him have dumb hitboxes because <character> is stronger" is a silly argument to make though
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Jun 8, 2016 21:51
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I'm loving random mode. It turns out I'm real bad with Reaper but I'm getting better with Mercy. I'm learning to just let people died if they wander off too far from me. I got better poo poo to do. Edit: I did bind Hello to Mouse 5 because playing Reaper and constantly giving friendly hellos was the best.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:53
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guts and bolts posted:so be it then, because right now he's bad and unsatisfying to both play as and play against I too think that people who enjoy playing projectile sniper classes shouldn't be allowed to have fun because you think it's unbelievably broken that a guy can actually get headshots sometimes.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:53
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Widowmaker makes Hanzo almost completely reduntant anyhow e: He's sniper D.va
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Jun 8, 2016 21:55
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Overwatch: You Lost Because You're Bad.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:56
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Zoness posted:I would hope that nobody is still trying to argue that hanzo is in fact good.  Hanzo is good, he's just completely outclassed by widowmaker. His mobility is really useful and not many hanzos make full use of it. The wallhacks are his biggest asset, but unlike widow they require gamesense. You need to have an idea where the enemy is going to be, and always have arrows showing your team where they are. Widows wallhacks are better though, full map wallhacks shut down flankers.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:56
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exquisite tea posted:Overwatch: You Lost Because You're Bad. MRW when reading this: my av
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Jun 8, 2016 21:57
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Wait wait hold up there's people who can't tell when Mei uses her ult? I listen to podcasts and netflix and also Discord all the time while playing and I can hear an enemy Mei's ult just fine. Seeing where it lands so I can get away in time? That's the rough part. Sorry, still laughing about the guy being racist as an excuse to try to cover up his tragic loss of hearing.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:57
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Lady Naga posted:I too think that people who enjoy playing projectile sniper classes shouldn't be allowed to have fun because you think it's unbelievably broken that a guy can actually get headshots sometimes. lmao at your insufferable condescension and general bad posting because your husbando has dumb mechanics attached to his bow and arrow Hanzo should be buffed. Hanzo can't be buffed if his hitboxes stay the way they are because they're borderline insanity. Therefore: a) some other improvement should be attempted to change up this paradigm b) nope let's just leave him the way he is and characterize anyone pointing out that that's bad as ~not liking snipers having fun~ or ~a bloo bloo casuals~
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Jun 8, 2016 21:57
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guts and bolts posted:lmao at your insufferable condescension and general bad posting because your husbando has dumb mechanics attached to his bow and arrow Oh so now we're going into the phase where you accuse me of being biased because I love hanzo so much and play him all the time and want to marry him?  I mean, good luck with that. And you're right nobody is insufferably condescending on Something Awful.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:59
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Sanctum posted:Hanzo is good, he's just completely outclassed by widowmaker. His mobility is really useful and not many hanzos make full use of it. The wallhacks are his biggest asset, but unlike widow they require gamesense. You need to have an idea where the enemy is going to be, and always have arrows showing your team where they are. Widows wallhacks are better though, full map wallhacks shut down flankers. Hanzo strikes me as bad because he's eclipsed by someone else in every role you might try to take him in with little hope to see improvement with just number fiddling or minor tweaks, and it's most evident with Widowmaker she has a better wallhack with similar uptime if she isn't horrible she has a better way to escape problems and a better early detection system, and is thus far less vulnerable to flankers even with wallhacks down unless she's one-shotted she has a hitscan weapon etc. etc. if Widowmaker got deleted today you might see Hanzo picked sparingly, but I think you'd just see snipers as a whole go away as a concept in Overwatch until either he got buffed or she got brought back
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Jun 8, 2016 22:00
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Lady Naga posted:Oh so now we're going into the phase where you accuse me of being biased because I love hanzo so much and play him all the time and want to marry him? thumbs up, let's agree to just drop it because this is boring
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Jun 8, 2016 22:01
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Lady Naga posted:And you're right nobody is insufferably condescending on Something Awful.
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Jun 8, 2016 22:01
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Lady Naga posted:Oh so now we're going into the phase where you accuse me of being biased because I love hanzo so much and play him all the time and want to marry him? Hands off bitch You can't marry him because he's marrying me, Cake Smashing Boob
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Jun 8, 2016 22:01
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I'm legit upset that I'm starting to get pithy and dismissive again but that's exactly what discourse on this loving website drives you to do because you either try to maintain the high ground and get annoyed whenever some shitposter casually dismisses everything you say or you get dragged down to their level. Like, you're the one who decided to try and engage me with shitass sarcasm so really I don't see how you have any room to accuse me of being condescending.
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Jun 8, 2016 22:03
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Lady Naga posted:I'm legit upset that I'm starting to get pithy and dismissive again but that's exactly what discourse on this loving website drives you to do because you either try to maintain the high ground and get annoyed whenever some shitposter casually dismisses everything you say or you get dragged down to their level. Like, you're the one who decided to try and engage me with shitass sarcasm so really I don't see how you have any room to accuse me of being condescending. Never forget your god-given right Not to Post.
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Jun 8, 2016 22:06
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Lady Naga posted:Oh well I never realized it's that simple. If something is good; it's broken. Thanks for clearing that up. Oh, this is from that one-hero limit tourney. I was wondering why Symmetra was so highly represented.
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Jun 8, 2016 22:06
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i like using junkrat's mine to jump really high
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Jun 8, 2016 22:06
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Lady Naga posted:I'm legit upset that I'm starting to get pithy and dismissive again but that's exactly what discourse on this loving website drives you to do because you either try to maintain the high ground and get annoyed whenever some shitposter casually dismisses everything you say or you get dragged down to their level. Like, you're the one who decided to try and engage me with shitass sarcasm so really I don't see how you have any room to accuse me of being condescending. it would be good if you did not post, ideally ever again
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Jun 8, 2016 22:06
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Cake Smashing Boob posted:Hands off bitch uh sir I think you mean that she's marrying me  Lady Naga posted:I'm legit upset that I'm starting to get pithy and dismissive again but that's exactly what discourse on this loving website drives you to do because you either try to maintain the high ground and get annoyed whenever some shitposter casually dismisses everything you say or you get dragged down to their level. Like, you're the one who decided to try and engage me with shitass sarcasm so really I don't see how you have any room to accuse me of being condescending. nobody dismissed everything you said, it was literally the exact opposite - I said that Hanzo's hitboxes are out of control, and to say they aren't or to minimize how whacky they are is disingenuous (in so many words, I think I used "lol" a bunch so that's on me) it was you who resorted to calling people casual in a weird, nonsequitur kind of way, and then kept talking about pick rates in comp play at that one tourney event or about why Hanzo's hitboxes are fine because someone else is overpowering/stronger/whatever now it's boring, and we've both agreed to let bygones be bygones
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Jun 8, 2016 22:07
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I got Mercy's Valkyrie skin out of a loot box today, so I guess I'll be playing a lot more of her now. Hope everyone else is having a good day too!
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Jun 8, 2016 22:09
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