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Filthy Hans posted:I've been Sunbroing Champion Gundyr and about 2/3 of my summons are players who summon the goddamn Weapon Master. As soon as I see that I know the player won't last long enough for me to finish Gundyr off. I can easily solo him because he's so easy to parry with the caestus, but these Leroy Jenkinses are a lost cause. I did Gundyr tonight and brought Sword Master, he kept aggro the entire time while I threw Chaos Fireballs at the Champ. It was great.  I've been sunbroing tonight too and got summoned by someone with a name I didn't like ("nukejapanagain") so I just danced around dropping Very Goods and Help Mes while the Champ beat the poo poo out of him.
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Jun 9, 2016 04:38
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The Berzerker posted:I did Gundyr tonight and brought Sword Master, he kept aggro the entire time while I threw Chaos Fireballs at the Champ. It was great. Veeeeery Goooood
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Jun 9, 2016 04:41
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Do people know their name is censored? I phantomed with a guy just named ***** last night.
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Jun 9, 2016 05:47
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You have no idea. I had no idea people were being denied having the joy of teaming up with Princess Boner whenever I'd join them.  Only way you can do it is to put your name into a name checker.
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Jun 9, 2016 05:53
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Do people know their name is censored? I phantomed with a guy just named ***** last night. A lot of people don't know that censor even exists. Among those that do, a bunch probably don't realize how absurd it is. Like if you told someone that the word Knight, literally one of the starting classes, gets censored they'd call you crazy but welp Always gonna get a laugh out of the ways people try and get around the filter. 
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Jun 9, 2016 05:57
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Genocyber posted:I do want to bring up how, prior to release, Miyazaki mentioned wanting to reach a medium between DS1's never break and DS2's fast break, and the end result is a system where it's even harder to break stuff than ever. Guess he's poo poo at the actual mechanics design bit of game design. Weapon durability matters more than in DS1 but less than in DS2. He achieved what he set out to do. The only thing I wish still existed was Crystal equipment.
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Jun 9, 2016 12:42
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DatonKallandor posted:Weapon durability matters more than in DS1 but less than in DS2. He achieved what he set out to do. It matters less than in DS1 because it automatically recovers when you rest at a bonfire and you will never ever get close to breaking anything in between two bonfires unless you go out of your way not to rest at them. I'm not complaining, mind - with the exception of the mildly interesting crystal weapons from DS1, equipment durability in video games is either completely unimportant, or an outright nuisance that only detracts and never adds anything to the experience. Even the crystal weapons didn't really work out, since the extra damage output from a fully upgraded crystal weapon is negligible compared to a fully upgraded normal weapon, so it just ends up not being worth it when you consider the resources it takes. Instant Grat fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 12:47
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Durability never mattered in my three playthoughs of DaS3, so it's kinda useless as a mechanic again.
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Jun 9, 2016 12:49
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I've never even had anything get "At Risk" in the game. I always forget it's a mechanic until I see the Repair option at Andre. It would've been a great time to bring back Crystal items or those "Old" items from DS2 that had a durability of 10 but were really strong. You could balance it so that an "Ancient Bastard Sword" had juuuust enough durability to get you to a boss fog if you fight every enemy, or juuust enough to get you 80% through a two-phase boss fight solo. That would be, like, a fun and tense way to use the mechanic as opposed to having something I literally didn't see all game. edit: but yeah, durability is generally always a boring, lovely mechanic so i'd rather it be useless than A Whole Thing
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Jun 9, 2016 12:52
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The only game where I found durability was really well implemented was Shadow Tower Abyss. So the way its implememted is the only way to repair items, and thats all of them, weapons, armor, passive bonus talismans and rings that let you do magic, beyond maybe a rare consumable that might not actually exist),was to use up your HP. Healing was plentiful but limited, unless you want to stand around for hours with a regen equip, and you found new ewuipment constantly, some better than others and some much worse, which you can also consume at altars for HP, so it becomes a game of balancing out your choices: do you repair your good equips with Hp and eat a potion or another equip or brave the coming area and maybe get a replacement, do you voraciously eat the weak to save your best but risk having no fallbacks, do you hoard them but use up much of your potions repairing them. Durability falls at a decent clip and all items have low enough of it so it can matter. There is no way to avoid something of yours getting broke during normal play. In practice they give you way too much equipment and healing for this to really put a pinch on you but the idea itself is one i really like. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 13:09
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only game that has done durability right is arcanum.
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Jun 9, 2016 13:10
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Durability in DS3 matters for exactly one weapon I can think of, being the Moonlight Greatsword, which loses durability on charged R2s. This is like the two-handed R2s of some weapons in DS1 that cost durability, and other similar special attacks in DS2. Everything else in DS3 uses FP instead, of course. I think as "weapon has this many charges for special stuff, replenish with Repair [Powder]" it's fine, but I'm very happy that it matters jackshit otherwise in DS3.
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Jun 9, 2016 13:13
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Instant Grat posted:It matters less than in DS1 because it automatically recovers when you rest at a bonfire and you will never ever get close to breaking anything in between two bonfires unless you go out of your way not to rest at them. The fact that it recovers at bonfires doesn't make it matter less, it just makes it less of a hassle (it did essentially the same thing in DS1 because you could get repair tools for your bonfire the moment you hit Andre) - but weapons will go at-risk earlier in DS3. If you literally rest every bonfire and only make trips from bonfire to next closest bonfire, then yes you'll never have a weapon get close to breaking. But the moment you skip a bonfire or a go for a more circuitous route, at-risk weapon is something that'll show up. Especially if your weapon is one of the more fragile and/or faster attacking ones and you don't have it maxed out. In other words, an optimal build on a second playthrough is probably never going to have to worry about durability, but a new player on a first run through will.
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Jun 9, 2016 13:18
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I looked up the numbers on Crystal weapons in DS1. A fully upgraded Crystal weapon has the same attack power you would get if you were somehow able to upgrade a Normal weapon to +17, rather than the actual limit of +15. This translates to a whopping 8% increase in attack rating, in return for spending the same amount of upgrade materials (including a slab), and turning your weapon into a finite resource that probably won't last you much more than a dungeon. And to add insult to injury, once you deplete an amount of durability equal to just 7% of the weapon's original durability, it'll be "at risk" and deal less damage than the fully upgraded normal weapon you could've made instead. Seems like a fantastic deal! DatonKallandor posted:In other words, an optimal build on a second playthrough is probably never going to have to worry about durability, but a new player on a first run through will. I don't think anyone who doesn't purposefully go out of their way to avoid bonfires has ever had to worry about equipment breakage in DS3. I just can't see any situation where it would matter in a casual playthrough, no matter how new of a player you are. Instant Grat fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 13:23
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Simply Simon posted:Durability in DS3 matters for exactly one weapon I can think of, being the Moonlight Greatsword, which loses durability on charged R2s. This is like the two-handed R2s of some weapons in DS1 that cost durability, and other similar special attacks in DS2. Everything else in DS3 uses FP instead, of course. I don't think I have ever seen Durability as a mechanic where I felt like it was adding anything fun to the game. It just becomes tedious. Crystal weapons were interesting in DS1, but even that was semi-useless, since if you really wanted to use them, it was much better to get Crystal Magic Weapon and just use that. One of my favorite runs in DS1 is "Easy Mode": 40 Dex, +15 Great Scythe, CMW.
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Jun 9, 2016 13:25
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I'm pretty sure Crystal Weapons in DS1 existed so you could buy one from Domnhall to make Gaping Dragon less tedious then forget about them for the rest of the game. And nobody did that anyway.
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Jun 9, 2016 13:27
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I think, personally, like most things in dark souls 1, it worked really well going in blind. So much of that game was so amazing because of how much deeper it was than it seemed on the surface. So many arcane facets that only revealed themselves over time, it really felt like you were finding your way through a strange and dangerous world. The first time I came across weapon degradation was 70% of the way through the fight with the gaping Dragon. I drat near shat myself when it said WEAPON AT RISK and then when it broke I freaked out! But I managed to switch mid combat and it felt incredible going on to win after that. So many of the 'Souls' mechanics were the same (wtf is that number at the top left of my screen about? What the gently caress, is this another player trying to kill me?! What the poo poo do any of these numbers mean?) Where working stuff out was a lot of the fun of it. We've all heard how miyazaki was trying to recreate that feeling of playing untranslated games as a kid. I strongly feel like once the mechanics are 'solved' these games lose a lot. Like I'm glad poise turned out to do nothing, realising my armor didn't do anything was basically the only "oh poo poo, THAT'S how this works!" Part that I got from this game. There was a whole bunch in bloodbourne obviously, but even DS2 was better for curios and mysteries. I remember there was that starting item in DS1 that no one knew the use for (and likewise the covenant you could join at firelink shrine) and no one knew what that was about for years! It's such a shame to me that what was so genuinely mystifying has been reduced to just another RPG. I can understand looking at it from a kind of arty farty perspective rather than a "what makes a better game" perspective is probably not well received. I feel like a TooL fan. But I really genuinely felt like DeS and DS sort of 'transcended' (eugh) being reviewed in a traditional context.
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Jun 9, 2016 13:29
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Z.h.p had durability worked, but only because the game worked like a roguelike and half the gimmick was slapping whatever equipment you found on your character to make a goofy looking monstrosity, and your character could still fight well even when completely unequipped. In dark souls if your weapon breaks you are suddenly doing a lot less damage unless you have a backup, and if you died then you hope you have enough soul items to repair it.
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Jun 9, 2016 13:33
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Instant Grat posted:I looked up the numbers on Crystal weapons in DS1. I don't think anyone is arguing that upgrading crystal weapons is a good deal. They're a great way to get a stronger-than-normal weapon (and shield I guess) of a couple of types that hit very hard for the investment but will eventually break. Upgrading them would be crazy. Edit: vvv HaB posted:Oddlly enough upgrading them does repair them. So it's possible to take one to say +2 Crystal, use it for a while, go +3, then repeat until you get to +5, etc. I wonder if that's intended or a bug. Considering when you get crystal stuff and how rare upgrade materials are at that point (and how you need more of them because you can upgrade armor too) I still don't think upgrading crystal is good value for material, but I guess if you know about the repair you could take crystal equipment from the point you get it to the point where upgrade materials are buyable without breaking it. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 13:59
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DatonKallandor posted:I don't think anyone is arguing that upgrading crystal weapons is a good deal. They're a great way to get a stronger-than-normal weapon (and shield I guess) of a couple of types that hit very hard for the investment but will eventually break. Upgrading them would be crazy. Oddlly enough upgrading them does repair them. So it's possible to take one to say +2 Crystal, use it for a while, go +3, then repeat until you get to +5, etc.
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Jun 9, 2016 14:09
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HaB posted:Oddlly enough upgrading them does repair them. So it's possible to take one to say +2 Crystal, use it for a while, go +3, then repeat until you get to +5, etc. Yeah but it's not until it reaches +4 that you see even the slightest increase over what you could get from the normal path
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Jun 9, 2016 14:13
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Internet Kraken posted:A lot of people don't know that censor even exists. Among those that do, a bunch probably don't realize how absurd it is. Like if you told someone that the word Knight, literally one of the starting classes, gets censored they'd call you crazy but welp The most absurd part is actually that for all the bother of putting the filter in, they made it case sensitive which is why that screen "Blade of the darkmoon gently caress Niggers was summoned through concord" is possible Like if you're going to have a filter at all I am pretty sure that should be a thing it blocks.
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Jun 9, 2016 14:14
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Digirat posted:The most absurd part is actually that for all the bother of putting the filter in, they made it case sensitive which is why that screen "Blade of the darkmoon gently caress Niggers was summoned through concord" is possible  I guess they should have, I don't know, relied on community policing like literally every other game on the internet?
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Jun 9, 2016 14:16
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Panty Saluter posted:
this wasn't in-game but the official forum for a flight simulator I was into years ago had a filter that censored the word "cockpit"
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Jun 9, 2016 14:30
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Rigged Death Trap posted:The only game where I found durability was really well implemented was Shadow Tower Abyss. Fallout 3 had an amazing durability system too. As a matter of fact it was basically all you would be worried about during the beginning of the game. The weapons degrade, the armor degrades, and if your weapon is broken its completely useless, same with your armor. In the beginning of the game you would have to balance not only ammo consumption but durability of different weapons as well. The repair skill was incredibly useful right off the bat so you could not only repair better but upgrade your weapon to unlock its full damage potential.
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Jun 9, 2016 15:44
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I'm pretty sure I've never heard anyone praise the Fallout 3 durability system until now.
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Jun 9, 2016 15:58
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Couldn't you just feed similar guns to your main gun in FO3? And since that game has like 5 different guns, and you have nearly immediate access to all of them, durability is literally never an issue?
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Jun 9, 2016 16:10
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sector_corrector posted:Couldn't you just feed similar guns to your main gun in FO3? And since that game has like 5 different guns, and you have nearly immediate access to all of them, durability is literally never an issue? Not early on, if your repair was low you'd get hardly anything from feeding a couple in and your max repair percentage was low too
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Jun 9, 2016 16:32
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Filthy Hans posted:Not early on, if your repair was low you'd get hardly anything from feeding a couple in and your max repair percentage was low too It was effectively an equipment gating mechanic.
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Jun 9, 2016 16:40
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Small and Blue posted:I'm pretty sure I've never heard anyone praise the Fallout 3 durability system until now. Yeah it was absolutely terrible. Oh darn my .45 revolver is getting rusty, I need to track down and find another and destroy the entire thing to replace a single gear or whatever. New Vegas was an improvement in every way in that you could make repair kits out of junk you found, and a perk made repairing with other weapons that were only vaguely similar to the damaged one possible.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:00
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How was DeS's durability? DS2's was juuust fine imho since in pve you barely noticed it save for some explicitly low durability items but you could still troll people in pvp with urns/acid surge or just drawing out a fight spectacularly 
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Jun 9, 2016 17:39
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hard counter posted:How was DeS's durability? Exactly. Durability is such a non-factor in the other games it may as well not exist. DkS2 made it interesting but I never had to slow down much for it. I think people were chapped by the 60FPS bug (which I think got fixed but I'm not sure).
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Jun 9, 2016 17:47
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hard counter posted:How was DeS's durability? Or just ratbroing. gently caress me. Ratbroing release week was the best gaming experience I'll ever have.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:59
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hard counter posted:How was DeS's durability? Weapon durability was never an issue in DeS as long as you fixed it every now and then. Of course DeS also has the scraping spear and fixing armor is expencive 
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Jun 9, 2016 18:03
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DatonKallandor posted:The fact that it recovers at bonfires doesn't make it matter less, it just makes it less of a hassle (it did essentially the same thing in DS1 because you could get repair tools for your bonfire the moment you hit Andre) - but weapons will go at-risk earlier in DS3. If you literally rest every bonfire and only make trips from bonfire to next closest bonfire, then yes you'll never have a weapon get close to breaking. But the moment you skip a bonfire or a go for a more circuitous route, at-risk weapon is something that'll show up. No, it's not. I regularly clear through areas without resting at bonfires, and I've never once had a weapon come to risk status, not even the Moonlight Greatsword which is especially prone to that occurring. Nevermind that, even if that were the case, repair powders are quite plentiful. And armor of course will never ever break. The amount of durability that gear has and the rate at which it is reduced is set as if it were DS1's system and that makes durability utterly worthless.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:08
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I've literally never had a weapon or piece of armour be at risk and I skip bonfires a lot. The durability system is a complete joke and if Miyazaki was really setting out for a medium between DS1 and DS2 he failed miserably. I'd be more inclined to believe that at some point close to release he thought "actually this mechanic sucks" and just tripled the durability values on everything. Would explain why acid surge is completely worthless.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:21
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The only time I've ever had a weapon be put at risk is after sunbroing the Champ like 20 times in a row, since durability isn't refreshed after a successful summon, but in that case I'm practically standing on top of a bonfire so who cares.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:25
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Panty Saluter posted:Exactly. Durability is such a non-factor in the other games it may as well not exist. DkS2 made it interesting but I never had to slow down much for it. I think people were chapped by the 60FPS bug (which I think got fixed but I'm not sure). It did get fixed but not until a month or two after the current console versions came out, it was like that on PC for at least six months.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:29
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Small and Blue posted:I'm pretty sure I've never heard anyone praise the Fallout 3 durability system until now. Well I'm not exactly praising it but it seemed like a more authentic system to me.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:36
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The Fallout 3 (and NV) system mattered for like 5-10 hours of gameplay, after which you hit that point where common resources are functionally infinite and it stops mattering.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:43
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