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John Rabe's story is very similar to Oskar Schindler's, only Rabe saved over 200,000 people by creating the safe zone within his factory grounds in Nanking and mostly deterred assaults from the Japanese army by reminding them that he was a member of the Nazi party which would get them to back down. After the war and his "de-nazification" he and his family lived in pretty serious poverty for some years until the people of Nanking heard of his situation and frequently sent money and food to him, and even the mayor of Nanking visited him with a large supply of food. It's one of the very few uplifting stories to come out of the whole thing.
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Jun 7, 2016 17:26
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To return to the prison camps that brainwash kids for a moment, there is apparently a case getting started in Texas where the extended family of a kid locked away for being gay is suing to have her released, over the parents' wishes (the parents locked her up for being gay). It seems like it could be an important step in ending these kinds of boarding schools. The family has a gofundme set up that seems kind of fishy because they don't give the kid's full name out of fear over media attention, but the guy running the page is who he says he is as far as I can tell: https://www.gofundme.com/27v8gac I'd probably wait until the case gets started to donate just to be sure it's legit, as it will likely be reported on and get wider coverage.
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Jun 7, 2016 17:43
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Jack Gladney posted:To return to the prison camps that brainwash kids for a moment, there is apparently a case getting started in Texas where the extended family of a kid locked away for being gay is suing to have her released, over the parents' wishes (the parents locked her up for being gay). It seems like it could be an important step in ending these kinds of boarding schools. The family has a gofundme set up that seems kind of fishy because they don't give the kid's full name out of fear over media attention, but the guy running the page is who he says he is as far as I can tell: Seems like its going to be tough to accomplish anything by the kid's 18th birthday, at which point she can leave the place voluntarily. She's already 17.
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Jun 7, 2016 17:54
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Basebf555 posted:Seems like its going to be tough to accomplish anything by the kid's 18th birthday, at which point she can leave the place voluntarily. She's already 17. They can still get a judgment against the camp and maybe get it shut down, and establish some caselaw to help kids at these kinds of places in the future. Also it's pretty horrible to just tell the kid that she just needs to sit tight for a year while getting starved and beaten.
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Jun 7, 2016 18:19
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Also maybe provide some money for a girl who never even had the opportunity for a high school diploma and will desperately need money.
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Jun 7, 2016 18:28
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NLJP posted:Reminds me of Folke Bernadotte who helped rescue thousands from the concentration camps and was later assassinated by the Stern Gang (a future Israeli prime minister, Yitzhak Shamir was part of the trio who undertook the assassination) for being seen as too strongly pro-Palestine. The Stern Gang was also partly responsible for the Deir Yassin massacre. JFC. Also, these folks were such radical Zionists that they were willing to side with Nazi Germany against the British in order to secure Israel as the Jewish homeland. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
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Jun 7, 2016 20:46
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Jack Gladney posted:They can still get a judgment against the camp and maybe get it shut down, and establish some caselaw to help kids at these kinds of places in the future. Also it's pretty horrible to just tell the kid that she just needs to sit tight for a year while getting starved and beaten. Well I'd never tell her that, jeez. You're right of course, if this case gets the camp/school shut down than its more than necessary. If it brings negative attention to similar camps even better.
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Jun 7, 2016 21:06
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You are one hell of a writer, Droogie. Start shopping that stuff around. Start with the Southwest Review, maybe, when they reopen the reading period in September.
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Jun 7, 2016 22:00
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A bit of an antidote in the Stanford rape case: https://www.buzzfeed.com/emaoconnor/meet-the-two-swedish-men-who-caught-brock-turner?utm_term=.rozBMDLwv#.umG6ZlJYg
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Jun 7, 2016 23:09
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Quite a few older British people haven't forgotten what the Stern gang etc did to British police in pre-1948 Palestine. Thanks for the new write up, Droogie. Great stuff. 
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Jun 7, 2016 23:17
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As far as radical Zionist terrorist cells go the Avengers were probably the most ambitious. Their aim was to kill 6 million Germans by poisoning water supplies all over Germany and through various smaller terrorist strikes. However they only managed to kill about 300 SS prisoners of war and make 2000 or so really sick which isn't bad but very far from their goal.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:48
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pookel posted:A bit of an antidote in the Stanford rape case: https://www.buzzfeed.com/emaoconnor/meet-the-two-swedish-men-who-caught-brock-turner?utm_term=.rozBMDLwv#.umG6ZlJYg Looks like they released his mug shot, too, which the cops had been refusing to do under the rich-and-white clause.
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Jun 8, 2016 00:20
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Another person has died in Yellowstone after straying off the boardwalk and into the 200°F hot springs. Also some dumbass got thrashed by a bison for taking photos of it from 3-5 feet away, with an iPad.
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Jun 8, 2016 22:37
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Mister Mind posted:Another person has died in Yellowstone after straying off the boardwalk and into the 200°F hot springs. Also some dumbass got thrashed by a bison for taking photos of it from 3-5 feet away, with an iPad. From another article: quote:"They were able to recover a few personal effects," park spokeswoman Charissa Reid said. "There were no remains left to recover." Morbid question, but what happened to the body? I know the springs are acidic, but that seems kind of fast to get rid of a body, even a boiled one. Or do they just mean it's down at the bottom somewhere and not worth the danger to rescuers to try to get at it? I'm thoroughly grossed out just thinking about this.
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Jun 8, 2016 23:35
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Florida Betty posted:From another article: They gave up looking. quote:They halted the effort Wednesday "due to the extreme nature and futility of it all," Reid said, referring to the high temperature and acidic nature of the spring.
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Jun 8, 2016 23:40
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It's boiling acid, so it seems reasonable that his flesh was liquified and his bones dissolved.
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Jun 8, 2016 23:40
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Pot-sticker for grizzlies.
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Jun 9, 2016 00:32
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Droogie posted:A terrible tale brilliantly told. My heart breaks at this story. She is 38 years old and has been through more than most people will experience in a lifetime. I hope her youngest two children and her grandchild get the stability and support they need in their lives. I'm just going to take a minute to count all of my blessings and hope that I never have to find out what sort of person I would be if I had to walk a mile in her shoes.
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Jun 9, 2016 01:09
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I don't recall hearing about this from 3 years back: In 2013 in Athens, Alabama one Austin Clem was convicted of raping his neighbor multiple times, including when she was underage. Judge James Woodroof sentenced him to 20 years, but for some reason suspended all but a mandatory minimum 3 years, and that was to be served in house arrest with work release. The prosecutor appealed the ridiculously light sentence and won, on the grounds that convicted rapists aren't eligible for those programs, and the appeals court ordered re-sentencing. The motherfucking judge decided to just suspend the mandatory prison time too, letting the convicted rapist go completely free out of spite. This was upheld on further appeal due to a loophole in Alabama law. Not only has that fucker somehow not been murdered, he is still a judge. Also, he's a Democrat 
Alereon has a new favorite as of 03:47 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 01:50
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Jack Gladney posted:To return to the prison camps that brainwash kids for a moment, there is apparently a case getting started in Texas where the extended family of a kid locked away for being gay is suing to have her released, over the parents' wishes (the parents locked her up for being gay). It seems like it could be an important step in ending these kinds of boarding schools. The family has a gofundme set up that seems kind of fishy because they don't give the kid's full name out of fear over media attention, but the guy running the page is who he says he is as far as I can tell: This just got traction because apparently her cousin (who's behind the campaign) is on that Supergirl show. I hope they shut the whole thing down. link
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Jun 9, 2016 07:58
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It's sad to see that there are still so many of those "pay someone to whisk your kid away without their knowledge or consent and indoctrinate them through horrible means" businesses still running. I also know someone it happened to. There was a gal in my graduating class who, during our sophomore year (grade 10), just vanished. When asked, the teachers would just shrug and say, "they said she moved." Something was immediately suspect about this explanation that had everyone suspicious: her family still lived in the county. Her father, a pastor, still had regular services at his church. Her brothers (who had severe behavioral issues) still went to our school, and would say the same thing when asked. They'd done a great job keeping what really happened under wraps, though. This was a very small rural community, and it's nearly impossible to keep a secret in a small town like that. We speculated for a while. We ruled out boot camp/boarding school/etc. because she was a good kid. She was especially well-behaved considering she was a pastor's daughter. She got good grades, did track & field, was in band, and was pretty easy to get along with. Sure, she had a raunchy sense of humor sometimes, and was caught more than once smoking cigarettes with her friends behind the gas station, but tons of us did far worse, and we didn't vanish. Also, her brothers were weapons-grade assholes and regularly got into all kinds of trouble with the school and the sheriff, and they were still around. So, we decided it definitely wasn't some kind of reeducation camp. Was she kidnapped? Held for ransom? Sold into child slavery? Did her parents or siblings accidentally (or intentionally) kill her and they had to come up with a story? Was she recruited by some shadowy government agency? Abducted by aliens (illegal or extraterrestrial)? Over time, we just sort of forgot about her, being the self-centered highschoolers that we were. Years went by, we went to college, and the most thought we'd give her was an occasional "Huh, I wonder whatever happened to that girl?" The year I finished my undergraduate degree, I got a call from Paul, one of my highschool buddies, who lived with his fiancee back in our hometown. "Fai, you're not gonna believe who just moved in next door." My buddy invited me to a cookout at his and his fiancee's house, and he made sure he invited his new neighbors. Sure enough, it was her. She, her husband, and their young twins had moved from "out East" because he'd found work in the area, and her family was nearby. He did all the talking, and she wore a static smile. Blue polo tucked into pleated-front khakis, wearing a silver cross on a fine chain outside his shirt. The twins had matching polos tucked into their matching pleated-front khakis. She didn't speak a word to anybody the entire time. No "hey haven't seen you in ages," no "wow you've changed," no "how was college?" I was actually more bewildered by the circumstances of her sudden return than by her disappearance. But it had been more than six years, and people change, so I had already written it off as "she grew up and that's how she wants to be" when Paul called me up a few months later. He'd found out what happened to her. Paul's fiancee had noticed that their new neighbor had a habit of sitting motionless on the front porch, staring into space. We're talking from the time her husband left for work and the bus picked the twins up for school to the time he got back and the bus dropped the kids off. It freaked Paul's fiancee right the gently caress out, so she took some iced tea over one morning and, after some small talk, whipped out an icebreaker, hoping to get her to open up a little in case she needed to tell somebody that something was wrong at home: "Paul says you two went to school together?" She apparently didn't stop crying for hours. Paul's confused fiancee had to piece the story together between sobs. Back when she was in school with us, she'd had several tiffs with her father about her desire to be more independent. She was about to get her driver's license and had decided that it was time for some of the "family rules" he'd outlined governing her behavior to be relaxed. More time alone with friends, being able to stay out later, etc. He would steadfastly refuse, and then get angry when she pushed the issue. Just imagine a really conservative dad yelling "no daughter of mine will act like that!" and you've got the idea. The tiffs quickly became arguments, and she started getting punished for disobeying his command to stop bringing the issue up, and then punished more heavily when she pushed back. She said all she wanted was to be able to drive into town to see a movie with her friends on a Friday night, and he wouldn't budge. Things escalated further, and she began acting out in retaliation, until, in the heat of a windowpane-rattling argument, she blurted out something so insulting that he hit her. Not "slapped" her. Full-on right hook to the face. I wish I knew what the hell she'd said, but the list of "things you say to your pastor father to make him mad enough to smite you" can't be very long. After that, things were quiet for a while. He'd never hit any of his children before, so I imagine he was pretty shaken. She just kept her head down and stayed quiet at home, but at school, she was talking. She vented to her friends about how awful it was, how much she hated him--all that teenage stuff that seems so important at the time. Among all that talk, two very important points were overheard (remember what I said earlier about keeping secrets in small towns?): she knew a guy in the college town half an hour away that would give her a tattoo without an ID, and that she was considering telling her father that she was a lesbian. She had no idea anybody was listening (and wouldn't find out until years later), so the trademark nighttime abduction came out of nowhere. Same story as described in earlier accounts in the thread--"cops" with flashlights, lots of yelling orders, wrist and ankle restraints, and a long car ride to the airport. The way she described how the facility was run is right in line with the previous accounts, too. Psychological torture, exercising until total exhaustion, being made to stay awake for days and days with no sleep, kids that had been there a while punishing other kids, an "isolation suite" (an unlit, damp, unfinished basement) for when you really mess up, and during it all, non-stop proselytizing, with "rewards" waiting for you when you fell in line and accepted Jesus. She resisted for a while, but like all the others, she eventually gave in. She "graduated" a few months before her 18th birthday. After her parents took her home and marveled at what a good Christian she was and how well-behaved she now was, they unceremoniously took her to the courthouse. They'd arranged a marriage for her to tucked-in polo guy while she was away. She said they probably did it to prevent her from acting on her "lesbian desires" (at this point her parents had explained what someone overheard at school that day, and that it was the last straw, and that she had to be sent away for her own good). Thing is, she said she never actually planned on going through with the tattoo, and she definitely wasn't a lesbian--she was just an angry teenager when she said those things, which is something I imagine a reasonable parent would understand and deal with in some way other than sending his or her child to a Christian torture camp. As far as I know, she's never confronted her parents about what went on at the facility and if they knew how bad it was, or asked them why they, you know, sent their daughter to a loving torture facility over some poo poo they heard thirdhand. Did they know what went on there? You've got to imagine that a relatively intelligent, well-educated pastor would at least have some inkling of what goes on under the hood of a place that promises to take your unruly demon child and give you back a Stepford wife. It sure as hell isn't going to be weekend seminars and pizza parties, that's for sure. Could they really have looked at a pamphlet full of nice photos of children praying and playing water polo and reading bibles and said "Hmmm it says here they also come and violently abduct your child in the middle of the night because Jesus. Sounds legit, where's my checkbook?" I hope someone hurries up and blows the lid off this poo poo quickly so no more kids have to suffer 
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Jun 9, 2016 16:11
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A friend of mine had to go to one of those places in high school. She'd only talk about it rarely, usually when drunk; same deal though, strict Christian parents, normal small teenage rebellions blown way out of proportion. In her case, it was getting into secular music instead of choir and not eating meat that were the final straws. loving ridiculous. I think the facility she went to was a bit less horrible than some of the others described, the worst thing she told me about was the pastor breaking her CDs in front of her (she hadn't been kidnapped like some others, her parents had made it seem like she was going on a trip to visit relatives so she'd packed accordingly) and making her do push-ups with a plate of Spam under her face. I don't even know what the gently caress. She's got a really good head on her shoulders, so she just sort of kept her mouth shut and did her time there, then more or less cut her family out completely once she turned 18. She's a total Williamsburg hipster now, her band's gotten some attention lately, and she still doesn't eat meat, so in the end her parents totally wasted their money.
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Jun 9, 2016 16:48
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It's nice to know that some of these parents will descend into old age abandoned and alone, totally cut off forever from the children they were so afraid of losing to a salad or Bauhaus record.
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Jun 9, 2016 16:59
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Jack Gladney posted:It's nice to know that some of these parents will descend into old age abandoned and alone, totally cut off forever from the children they were so afraid of losing to a salad or Bauhaus record. Seems cruel not to show up when they're ~80 and use the old power of attorney to send them somewhere fitting, n'est pa?
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Jun 9, 2016 17:09
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Jack Gladney posted:It's nice to know that some of these parents will descend into old age abandoned and alone, totally cut off forever from the children they were so afraid of losing to a salad or Bauhaus record. It'd be one thing if it were Bauhaus. At the time, her favorite band was Belle and frickin' Sebastian. How on earth her parents found that threatening is beyond me.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:17
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"Why did your parents send you here?" "Well I burnt our neighbor's house down on purpose, and I found a baby deer with a broken leg so I snapped its other three and then fed it its own poo poo before strangling it. You?" "Mom caught me listening to 'Sledgehammer'"
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Jun 9, 2016 17:34
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Crow Jane posted:It'd be one thing if it were Bauhaus. At the time, her favorite band was Belle and frickin' Sebastian. How on earth her parents found that threatening is beyond me. You don't understand these people. I'm from Oklahoma. I know these people. The Devil is very literally real to them, and so anything that isn't explicitly, overtly pro-Jesus is actively anti-Jesus.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:39
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Crow Jane posted:It'd be one thing if it were Bauhaus. At the time, her favorite band was Belle and frickin' Sebastian. How on earth her parents found that threatening is beyond me. oh god, that's even more tragic. I suppose there are a few 'risque' themes in their tunes, but to my knowledge there is only ONE SONG that has a swear word in it. Actually thinking about it there are quite a few songs that could be considered to have anti-Christian sentiments- but yeah, on the scale of subversion, they are not really the worst out there. GOTTA STAY FAI posted:STEPFORD WIVES poo poo drat, that's sad. I always forget how lucky I was to have parents that just let me get on with my weirdo poo poo and actively encouraged it.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:46
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Imagined posted:You don't understand these people. I'm from Oklahoma. I know these people. The Devil is very literally real to them, and so anything that isn't explicitly, overtly pro-Jesus is actively anti-Jesus.  I grew up in suburban Texas and never saw anything like that. Is Texas that much better than Oklahoma or are the Catholic/Latino sections of the South that much better than the Protestant/White sections of the South?
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Jun 9, 2016 18:02
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Imagined posted:The Devil is very literally them, and so anything that isn't explicitly, overtly pro-Devil-Jesus is actively anti-Devil-Jesus (aka a rational moral human being). FTFY
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Jun 9, 2016 18:04
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:Jesus camp stuff
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Jun 9, 2016 18:09
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Desmond posted:Everyone should see The Virgin Suicides. It's not even about sending your kid off to torture camp but keeping them at home and locked up under extremely bizarre religious paranoia reasons. It's fiction, but I wouldn't be surprised if similar cases happened all the time. The parents in the Virgin Suicides overreact after one of their daughters commits suicide and become overprotective of their remaining daughters. Then the eldest daughter starts loving strange men on the roof of their house. It's not really the same thing.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:51
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Imagined posted:You don't understand these people. I'm from Oklahoma. I know these people. The Devil is very literally real to them, and so anything that isn't explicitly, overtly pro-Jesus is actively anti-Jesus. I grew up in Michigan, and the mother of one of my classmates swore up-and-down that she met the devil on Halloween. Not only were her children not allowed to celebrate Halloween, but she pulled them out of classes on Halloween to keep them at home with her
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Jun 9, 2016 19:05
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The thing that kills me about my friend who had to go through that is that she is genuinely one of the sweetest, kindest, most generous people I've ever known. Once I had to cancel plans with her due to coming down with the flu, and she dropped by my apartment with a pint of miso soup and a couple DVDs on her way to the venue, because she wanted me to have a nice evening even if I couldn't go out. I can't imagine any parent not being proud of someone like that. I didn't meet her til we were both in our early twenties, and I've never met her parents, but goddamn do I have some choice words for them.
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Jun 9, 2016 19:15
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Terrible Opinions posted:
I don't know if Oklahoma is "worse" but 80% of Oklahomans believe in God with "absolute certainty". My wife grew up where she wasn't allowed to listen to "secular" music, read fantasy books, etc.
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Jun 9, 2016 19:36
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As an Oklahoman, yeah it's loving rough here. I live in a big enough city that there's a lot of less redneck elements here but all that means is normal human beings have a fifty fifty shot of moving next door to a full blown lunatic. Roughly every third or fourth white girl in my high school had the pentecostal hair and denim skirts. I used to live down the street from Oral Roberts University and one of the biggest mega churches in the state. The other corner of that street is in fact a Walmart. Texas is actually seen as more liberal to a lot of people here. I think maybe it's the size, they've got quite a few large-ish cities and Oklahoma just has the two.
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Jun 9, 2016 19:44
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Phanatic posted:The parents in the Virgin Suicides overreact after one of their daughters commits suicide and become overprotective of their remaining daughters. Then the eldest daughter starts loving strange men on the roof of their house. It's not really the same thing. I didn't say it was the same thing, in fact pointed out it wasn't the same thing as being sent to camps. If you haven't seen the movie yet, the suicide was prompted by the parents' severe religious over-protection to begin with. Since we're talking about weird religious behaviour that is cruel to children, it seemed on-topic.
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Jun 9, 2016 19:52
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drat I'm a Jew who's never been anywhere except the East and West coast of the country. If I ever went to some of these southern states it would probably feel like I stepped into a bizarro universe. It would probably be a bit scary to be honest.
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Jun 9, 2016 19:52
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Alereon posted:It's boiling acid, so it seems reasonable that his flesh was liquified and his bones dissolved. I burst out laughing reading this post despite the morbidity because it just popped into my head said by this dude http://youtu.be/nBEz-wfq8Ew ...I'm sorry
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Jun 9, 2016 20:00
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china bot posted:I grew up in Michigan, and the mother of one of my classmates swore up-and-down that she met the devil on Halloween. Not only were her children not allowed to celebrate Halloween, but she pulled them out of classes on Halloween to keep them at home with her As a fellow Michigander, I can safely say that this lady is totally crazy. Everyone here knows that the evening BEFORE Halloween is the Devil's night.
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