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Lol that's brilliant
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Jun 8, 2016 06:31
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I sort of hope this is limited to 29 arbitrarily. After all, 30 is just an excessive number. Twenty-nine, now that's fine, but thirty... does it look like Doom Guy's arms can reach that high?
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Jun 8, 2016 06:40
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I just stumbled across this surprisingly informative game theorists video. No game theories, just a fairly decent explanation of how the Wolf3d and Doom engines work.
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Jun 8, 2016 07:07
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While I obviously understand what's meant by it, part of me always finds the "DOOM WASN'T 3D!!" to be a bit  . A Doom map (or at least the virtual spaces defined by it) has extent in the X, Y and Z directions, so by at least one sense it's legitimately three-dimensional.
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Jun 8, 2016 08:36
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Yeah. The insistence on the "NOT 3D" thing was a bit much. Though if you really want to get technical about it, Doom is 2.5D, since it uses the various tricks described in the video to make a 2D playing area simulate a 3D environment. Of course source-ports and modern mods throw a bunch of that right out the window, though some crazy engine fudgery is still necessary. (I just looked up a tutorial on 3d floors for UDMF, and that stuff just blows my mind.)
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Jun 8, 2016 09:18
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LogicalFallacy posted:Yeah. The insistence on the "NOT 3D" thing was a bit much. Though if you really want to get technical about it, Doom is 2.5D, since it uses the various tricks described in the video to make a 2D playing area simulate a 3D environment. Of course source-ports and modern mods throw a bunch of that right out the window, though some crazy engine fudgery is still necessary. (I just looked up a tutorial on 3d floors for UDMF, and that stuff just blows my mind.) 3D slopes however are witchcraft. I'm still not sure how one of my friends made that loving bridge map for Reelism...
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Jun 8, 2016 09:52
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The Kins posted:3D slopes however are witchcraft. I'm still not sure how one of my friends made that loving bridge map for Reelism... 3D slopes are one of those things that makes perfect sense if you understand how slopes and 3D floors (independently) work internally, although granted that's probably a give-in. I'm not sure if I could explain it successfully in one simple catch-all post, but the idea is; 3D floors are an extra generated plane in a sector, for every individual sector that's tagged to the control. Slopes on the other hand are a set of four angular coordinates indicating the overall angular vector (vector maybe the wrong term but whatever). Part of this, if I understand the math correctly, is actually a distance vector, so if you were to "move the sector" (as a hypothetical example), the slope wouldn't stay seemingly in the same place but rather seem to raise or lower as if you actually had a bigger slope but could only see a sector sized cutout at any one place. And that's actually how 3D slopes work as a construct. The slope doesn't copy itself to the extra planes, it's actually the exact same slope, just much further away from the control. Hence why if you don't line it up the slope itself appears misplaced, and why placing the same 3D slope control on multiple sectors line up as one complete 3D slope; you're actually just seeing the same slope vector represented at a more distant point. Another way to look at it is comparing how slopes work in the "void"; even after you've passed the logic part of the slope, it just keeps continuing into you cross into another BSP divide (or bounds of another sector). A 3D slope is the same way, starting from the control as normal and the bounds (each tagged sector) are actually defined. Rocket Pan fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 8, 2016 10:42
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Rocket Pan posted:I'm not sure if I could explain it successfully in one simple catch-all post, but the idea is; 3D floors are an extra generated plane in a sector, for every individual sector that's tagged to the control. Slopes on the other hand are a set of four angular coordinates indicating the overall angular vector (vector maybe the wrong term but whatever). Part of this, if I understand the math correctly, is actually a distance vector, so if you were to "move the sector" (as a hypothetical example), the slope wouldn't stay seemingly in the same place but rather seem to raise or lower as if you actually had a bigger slope but could only see a sector sized cutout at any one place. The whole thing is a vector- the 4 numbers are the coefficients of the plane equation ax + by + cz + d = 0. a, b, and c form a 3D vector indicating which direction the plane's surface is facing (the normal), and in a properly formed plane equation the normal is always 1 unit long. d represents the distance of the plane from the origin along that normal vector.
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Jun 8, 2016 13:39
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So, wizards then. Gotcha.
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Jun 8, 2016 13:43
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Ho, thread! GOG is giving away System Shock 2 for free for the next 44 hours. Their only requirement is that it must be claimed through their client.
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Jun 8, 2016 17:18
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Alright now. One down, three more to go
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Jun 8, 2016 20:46
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Does anyone know how to reach the Yellow Key in map 28 of Ancient Aliens? I keep falling into the death pit while trying to reach it.LogicalFallacy posted:Ho, thread! GOG is giving away System Shock 2 for free for the next 44 hours. Their only requirement is that it must be claimed through their client. This is really cool, but I can't imagine there are many people left want to play SS2 but haven't bought it already.
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Jun 8, 2016 21:22
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Samuel Clemens posted:Does anyone know how to reach the Yellow Key in map 28 of Ancient Aliens? I keep falling into the death pit while trying to reach it. You just have to keep skipping accross the "floating" platforms. Strafe running might be needed for the last one. It took me a few tries but I managed to get it eventually. Honestly my biggest issue getting the yellow key was lowering the Supercharge platform to get there. I actually had to open the map in GDZ Builder to figure out that it's, for some reason, done by crossing a linedef that runs north-south in the large pond 
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Jun 8, 2016 21:59
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My problem is that I can't figure out how to get from the lower, orange platforms to the green, upper ones. Is there a switch I have to press to get them moving?
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Jun 8, 2016 22:25
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Mogomra posted:That was my first thought. Perhaps we'll never know! I got a similarly strange bug in Dark Messiah where, inexplicably, one of the main NPCs did the limbo instead of her normal walk animation. A very impressive limbo at that.
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Jun 8, 2016 22:40
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Samuel Clemens posted:My problem is that I can't figure out how to get from the lower, orange platforms to the green, upper ones. Is there a switch I have to press to get them moving? The orange ones are supposed to be moving up and down, yeah. I'm not sure what triggers it. The large nearby platform (the one with with the Supercharge and energy cells) seems to have a linedef with a network of tags connected to them. Wander around that platform until something happens because that map is pretty bad for random triplines as I said earlier. Otherwise kill the enemies that were standing on it and see what happens. EDIT: I just tested it. The orange platforms should start to move once you step onto the aforementioned large platform from the catwalk. I see you're already standing on the platform in the screenshot so if that isn't working for you then you might have to restart the map! Mak0rz fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 01:32
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There was a newer revision of Ancient Aliens at some point a few weeks ago, because the original release had buggy results on some engines. Try downloading that if you have the original release.
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Jun 9, 2016 01:49
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The orange platforms did initially start moving, but then stopped after a few seconds. I figured it was some kind of bug, so I ultimately ended up using noclip for that part. Thanks all the same though.
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Jun 9, 2016 02:10
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Man, I gotta say, I am pretty much completely over the checkpoints-only-no-quicksaves model of modern shooting. It was mostly fine in DOOM because the game was just about exchanging gunfire with demons and didn't try to cheapshot you or make you do fiddly stealth poo poo, but both of the latest Wolfensteins so far have managed to piss me off with some asinine checkpoint placements. What's the claimed reason for it? The game engine will wet its diaper if they try to make it save at an arbitrary point in the map?
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Jun 9, 2016 06:47
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JerryLee posted:Man, I gotta say, I am pretty much completely over the checkpoints-only-no-quicksaves model of modern shooting. It was mostly fine in DOOM because the game was just about exchanging gunfire with demons and didn't try to cheapshot you or make you do fiddly stealth poo poo, but both of the latest Wolfensteins so far have managed to piss me off with some asinine checkpoint placements. Educated guess; no serializer that can handle the complex animation data (among other nuances). WolfTNO had the same problem with destructible map geometry, as it was either too complex or too big to store. The issue with that is if you don't serialize everything, you can actually trap the player with an imperfect snapshot (which ironically was an issue in the original Doom). Edit: Whoops, I thought you were actually talking about DO4M, not TNO. Long day and posting don't mix. Answer still applies, though. Rocket Pan fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 07:46
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Rocket Pan posted:Educated guess; no serializer that can handle the complex animation data (among other nuances). WolfTNO had the same problem with destructible map geometry, as it was either too complex or too big to store. The issue with that is if you don't serialize everything, you can actually trap the player with an imperfect snapshot (which ironically was an issue in the original Doom). Huh, I wonder if this is basically the same thing as when a save file goes tits up in a game like Fallout 4 or Skyrim. So much data to store, eventually the "snapshots" accrue imperfect data that contributes to instability in a save file.
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Jun 9, 2016 07:54
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Rocket Pan posted:Educated guess; no serializer that can handle the complex animation data (among other nuances). WolfTNO had the same problem with destructible map geometry, as it was either too complex or too big to store. The issue with that is if you don't serialize everything, you can actually trap the player with an imperfect snapshot (which ironically was an issue in the original Doom). This is genuinely interesting, thanks! I knew I was probably being at least a little unfair to the programmers' position, but I'll stick firmly to the position that if arbitrary saving is a technical impossibility, it's at least on them to design the rest of the game so that checkpoints are never a source of frustration.
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Jun 9, 2016 08:13
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Huh, I wonder if this is basically the same thing as when a save file goes tits up in a game like Fallout 4 or Skyrim. So much data to store, eventually the "snapshots" accrue imperfect data that contributes to instability in a save file. I think the main thing that messes up save files in Bethesda games is overwriting the same file numerous times. In Morrowind, saving outside could mess things up as well. Then there was the infamous Reference Bug in Oblivion introduced by Shivering Isles when it was first released.
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Jun 9, 2016 08:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5f0lt2HiVM My DUMP map is pretty much finished! If you don't want to wait for DUMP 3 to be done you can download it here (there are secrets to find that I didn't show off in the video!). It was a lot of fun to make and a good way to occupy my spare time while I'm sick. Experimenting with more organically shaped areas that are still "indoors" was definitely interesting and I'm pretty excited to incorporate what I learned into my own mapping projects. The timelapse video is going to take a while to do commentary on because I'm still sick but it'll come eventually. My official submission for the map is in the ZDoom forums thread. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 11:35
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I love New Order, but there's a huge difficulty spike about 2/3s of the way through. The game introduces those big heavy motherfuckers, and they demand a ludicrous amount of bullets/explosions. In particular there's the mission on the fallen bridge that is drat near broken when I played it. had to crank the difficulty down.
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Jun 9, 2016 13:01
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If anyone is interested in a System Shock 2 key from GOG.com: *D72A-482A4-D4885-2C6F* Change the * for 3
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Jun 9, 2016 13:18
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Narcissus1916 posted:I love New Order, but there's a huge difficulty spike about 2/3s of the way through. The game introduces those big heavy motherfuckers, and they demand a ludicrous amount of bullets/explosions. In particular there's the mission on the fallen bridge that is drat near broken when I played it. had to crank the difficulty down. TNO is better if you don't try and save ammo, if I remember correctly you can't even bring ammo between levels. The bridge level gives you a fuckton of rockets, and it's not so terrible if you just use the rockets all the time.
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Jun 9, 2016 15:38
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All the playing with the doom engine in this thread gave me the idea to spend two hours making something in UT99 for my horribly disengaged Korean ESL students. The idea is the player is blindfolded and their friends have to guide them to the end by saying turn left/right, go straight and stop. The movers in the middle of the platforms are spiky crushers. If this doesn't get them interested in ~learning~ then I don't know what to do.
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Jun 9, 2016 15:52
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joedevola posted:If this doesn't get them interested in ~learning~ then I don't know what to do. Recreate Oldboy as a Quake machinima?
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Jun 9, 2016 16:26
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Gah, these turrets in Quake II Ground Zero singlehandedly ruin the drat game. Someone please tell me there's a way to mod them out. I'm sick of quicksaving before every corner lest I eat a rocket to the face without warning.
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Jun 9, 2016 16:28
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joedevola posted:All the playing with the doom engine in this thread gave me the idea to spend two hours making something in UT99 for my horribly disengaged Korean ESL students. This is awesome. 
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Jun 9, 2016 17:05
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Convex posted:Recreate Oldboy as a Quake machinima? 
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Jun 9, 2016 17:11
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 holy poo poo
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Jun 9, 2016 17:15
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*nodding furiously* UHUH UHUH
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Jun 9, 2016 17:17
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Two days ago a new 3D shooter was released for... ZX Spectrum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHHOqKYB1Cs I had to double check that this isn't meant to be for the 128K version of the machine. Absolutely incredible. The download and more info is on the official website: http://www.olegorigin.org/the_dark.html Now if someone would go and finish MOOD for C64... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqJIlJ73kbQ
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Jun 9, 2016 17:37
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Alright. I can not get Thing_Spawn or any of its variants to work for me. I'm trying to get some monsters to spawn in at specific coordinates when a button is pressed, and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong that it isn't working. Any pointers?
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Jun 9, 2016 17:58
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laserghost posted:Two days ago a new 3D shooter was released for... ZX Spectrum: That's pretty rad. Reminds me of the Catacomb series if anything, but that's still amazing for the Spectrum.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:59
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LogicalFallacy posted:Alright. I can not get Thing_Spawn or any of its variants to work for me. I'm trying to get some monsters to spawn in at specific coordinates when a button is pressed, and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong that it isn't working. Any pointers?
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Jun 9, 2016 18:10
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Alternatively, do it the old-fashioned way: a separate sector outside of the map where the monsters reside, joined with one of the sectors around the switch where you know the player is going to get into a firefight, and the switch removes a barrier preventing the monsters from walking over a teleporter (the barrier corresponding to whatever it is inside the level the switch was already manipulating, whether it's a door or a floor). Bonus points for not raising the monster count from what it's reported to be at the start of the level.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:20
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Jun 9, 2016 20:04
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