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I had over 400 hours of fun in KF1, last 100 hours on Suicidal and HoE even, had lots of intense and fun games there. KF2 hardest difficulties don't look much fun at all in comparison, especially now. I have just 40 hours in KF2, half of it from before release and I bought in on the day it came out. It was my most expensive game purchase back then. Really wanted to refund it month after but I had played too much of it in pre-release beta. Couldn't even guess they would make it so much worse over time. Sininu fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 07:51
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Skoll posted:All this is going to get ignored because gently caress you, we already devoted the dev time to it anyway. Just turn it into a different game mode. Call it "hardcore survival" or something. Sometimes it's kind of interesting/fun to pound nails into your balls. I just don't want to do that all the time. Suicidal was feeling like it was moving to a good place prior to this patch. Now it just feels kind of tedious.
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Jun 10, 2016 07:55
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Just turn it into a different game mode. Call it "hardcore survival" or something. Sometimes it's kind of interesting/fun to pound nails into your balls. I just don't want to do that all the time. Suicidal was feeling like it was moving to a good place prior to this patch. Now it just feels kind of tedious. It worked well in our internal playtests. 
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Jun 10, 2016 07:58
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I like that Stalkers have an effective 300 health against shotgun damage.
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Jun 10, 2016 08:06
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LuciferMorningstar posted:I like that Stalkers have an effective 300 health against shotgun damage. Like I said before, naked 5 foot/152cm tall women can tank shotgun blasts like they're made out of high grade steel in real life. Haven't you read the latest ballistics reports about it? Tripwire is ahead of the realism curve, man. You'll see.
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Jun 10, 2016 08:11
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closeted republican posted:Like I said before, naked 5 foot/152cm tall women can tank shotgun blasts like they're made out of high grade steel in real life. Haven't you read the latest ballistics reports about it? Tripwire is ahead of the realism curve, man. You'll see. Guess that is how all those women passed Ranger training. Tripwire is on to something.
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Jun 10, 2016 08:14
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closeted republican posted:Don't worry friend, just read this spreadsheet and you can figure out how to kill a Crawler or Stalker with ease. 
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Jun 10, 2016 08:19
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LuciferMorningstar posted:I like that Stalkers have an effective 300 health against shotgun damage. This is actually just an extremely progressive form of feminism. Questioner: the latest patch made the average ttk all fuckity and unfun. Speaking of stalkers, 6-person normal I shot a M203-whatever into a batch of 4 stalkers and only one stalker died. The other three were knocked on their butts from the explosion. My demo is level 17. There's something wrong there.
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Jun 10, 2016 08:19
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Propaganda Hour posted:Questioner: the latest patch made the average ttk all fuckity and unfun. Speaking of stalkers, 6-person normal I shot a M203-whatever into a batch of 4 stalkers and only one stalker died. The other three were knocked on their butts from the explosion. My demo is level 17. There's something wrong there. Stalkers have a 0.3X multiplier to explosive damage. Most enemies have at least a 0.85X multiplier to explosive damage. That, in addition to reduced AoE for explosives, makes them pretty frustrating to use.
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Jun 10, 2016 08:33
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i haven't touched this game in over half a year and all of the new changes looks like total poo poo imho tbh
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Jun 10, 2016 08:56
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Ruggington posted:i haven't touched this game in over half a year and all of the new changes looks like total poo poo pretty much
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Jun 10, 2016 09:02
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Stalkers have a 0.3X multiplier to explosive damage. Most enemies have at least a 0.85X multiplier to explosive damage. That, in addition to reduced AoE for explosives, makes them pretty frustrating to use. So I can fire a (potentially nuclear) RPG at one and it won't die or be vaporized or anything. ... is it wrong to say that compared to KF1's DLC oversaturation, this patch looks worse? Or is that going overboard.
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Jun 10, 2016 09:03
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widespread posted:So I can fire a (potentially nuclear) RPG at one and it won't die or be vaporized or anything. Direct RPG hit will kill most enemies, I think. But the damage falloff is sufficiently hefty that enemies visually in the explosion can walk out alive.
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Jun 10, 2016 09:10
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Congrats on killing off your game, Questioner. 
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Jun 10, 2016 09:22
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Direct RPG hit will kill most enemies, I think. But the damage falloff is sufficiently hefty that enemies visually in the explosion can walk out alive. Wait, you mean I have to aim better with an RPG? 
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Jun 10, 2016 09:24
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Sykic posted:Congrats on killing off your game, Questioner. Their goal is to see if they can get down to into the hundreds of players and then see if micro transactions will drive the games life. Right now they're close with only 1200 players in the last 30 days on average!
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Jun 10, 2016 09:36
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Insert name here posted:Clearly you just want a simple head-popping simulator and are not hardcore enough to memorize every enemy's damage resistances and have another five people at your beck and call so you can form a perfect team composition every time you want to play the game If you don't have a dedicated team of six you can call at any moment that will cover all of the major damage types and use a completely optimized team perk layout you don't deserve to play Suicidal tbh. Skoll posted:Their goal is to see if they can get down to into the hundreds of players and then see if micro transactions will drive the games life. Right now they're close with only 1200 players in the last 30 days on average! KF2 been hitting an average of 800 or so players at night for the past week.
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Jun 10, 2016 09:37
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widespread posted:Wait, you mean I have to aim better with an RPG? Well, you see, it's because... Yoshiro posted:This weapon is meant to destroy single targets and not everything in an entire room
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Jun 10, 2016 09:41
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I too, use a rocket propelled grenade in order to surgically strike at a lone target in an enclosed space that is surrounded by other enemies.
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Jun 10, 2016 09:42
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Here's an idea. Instead of making individual enemies harder to kill, give us more to shoot at one time. More than one person can handle. Bingo teamwork and fun increased. Frustration decreased.
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Jun 10, 2016 10:15
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I hope Questioner didn't peace out from the frankly childish vitriol in this thread. That said, the update is still bad. As I said earlier, it is pretty obvious why this is a beta within Early Access rather than something being pushed into the main build, despite the lack of faith of this community for TWI, they are aware that this is a huge change and need feedback from external testing before making this the direction of the game. I can understand the design point of view of wanting to shake things up and attempt to increase player retention by making the gameplay more challenging, the issue here is that indeed we want our headpopping game. Videogames are mostly a power fantasy, horde shooters even more so, I would point in the direction of Payday 2 - probably the most successful horde shooter of our time - and remember that in its early days there was a design intention of making it "The Dark Souls of Heisting" or something like that, for whatever that expression is worth. While this attitude cultivated a dedicated core base, it continually drove player counts down. The designer in charge of this eventually left the company relatively early in the game's lifetime and Payday 2 gradually moved on to becoming easier, to the point where one can mediocre-shoot their way through the second-hardest difficulty (while the highest difficulty has become the place for really dedicated players wanting a challenge), it has done fairly well for itself since despite protestations every DLC and a microtransaction PR crisis that should have taught TWI a few things if they were watching. It is very frustrating for the player to see that the way he has been playing for a year is no longer supported by the mechanics. I can make an objective statement that playing Firebug is less fun now that the class has been relegated to primarily an incapacitation role. I am, of course, a casual player, who clicks on KF2 every once in a while to amuse myself with all the body parts flying around. In my personal experience, I tend to have the best experience on Suicidal. Not so easy as to be trivial, not so hard as to become a chore rather than something I do to unwind after work. If TWI wants to explore a system with all these resistances, requiring a higher degree team coordination to achieve success and so on, so forth, I would point to its own difficulty system as a basis to gate different experiences for different players. Lower difficulties for the headpopping crowd, higher difficulties for the people who want to memorize resistances and use team tactics to deal with every special zed. But really, feeling like your guns are powerful is in my opinion one of the core elements of KF2, your gunplay is top notch, feeling like you are firing pea-shooters runs counter to that. I do agree that a better way to do increase challenge is by increasing the number of zeds, because that increases the amount of things being dismembered/blown/burned in fun ways, as opposed to making enemies bullet sponges. Hell, I don't even get mad if I die late in a wave after doing my part in painting the map red, because it is fun to do that. Just don't spawn four sirens at once.
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Jun 10, 2016 12:55
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I don't think I've ever seen a thread so universally dislike an update to its game on SA. Can't even get a guy playing devil's advocate for this one, aside from the dude indirectly involved with making it.
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Jun 10, 2016 14:36
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What difficulty do most here play on? Also, did they make difficulty levels scale trash dudes health and/or resistances? Sininu fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 14:39
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SinineSiil posted:What difficulty do most here play on? Hard and Suicidal. I only did HoE with friends. Hard is like the perfect chill mode and Suicidal is just tough enough to be challenging fun imo.
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Jun 10, 2016 14:45
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SinineSiil posted:What difficulty do most here play on? Hard solo, Suicidal with 3+ friends. And health scales with difficulty a bit. But not for trash. Eh after playing some more and still hating the new Deagle, I started to do some reading up on the spreadsheet, and my question is - why do you even display weapon damage in the trader shop? It's an outright lie, becuse 80% of the time the weapon will do a lot less damage than it says. I can't trust the trader, I can't trust my eyes because what happens in the numbers has no relation to how the Zeds look and I have to try to use the wiki/spreadsheet/phone app (soon) to figure out the damage... eh. And here was a long part over here that was basically "LOOK AT WHAT OVERKILL IS DOING WITH PAYDAY 2", and do that. Because that game wasn't very fun - patched - was fun - patched - was a bit awkward to play - patched - is now loving AWESOME to blast heads with cool guns sporting cool masks listening to cool beats. I wish Killing Floor 2 could be the cool game to blast zombies to bits while listening to sick guitar solos it seemed when I bought it. But every patch is a small step forward, and two steps to the side.
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Jun 10, 2016 16:47
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ZearothK posted:I hope Questioner didn't peace out from the frankly childish vitriol in this thread. If he hasn't left by now, he probably should imo. He isn't going to get anything useful out of the thread and TWI is going away from everything people actually liked about killing floor, so all he'll get is more vitriol from goons Shame really, I used to like the game.
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Jun 10, 2016 16:49
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ZearothK posted:I hope Questioner didn't peace out from the frankly childish vitriol in this thread.
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Jun 10, 2016 17:00
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:I need a loving protractor to figure out how to shoot people now. What the gently caress you need a protractor when you go on a date! 
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Jun 10, 2016 17:06
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ZearothK posted:I hope Questioner didn't peace out from the frankly childish vitriol in this thread. Nah it's cool, he now has a 0.2 modifier against negative feedback.
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Jun 10, 2016 17:08
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Coolguye posted:everyone in this thread is well over the 2 hour refund time for this game so unless you have a better idea for protesting what amounts to a bait and switch then i dunno what the alternative is. I was considering gathering our feedback, taking some of the vitrol out and posting in on forums that are actually read by the developers. But I dunno if I want to piss in the ocean of piss that is the Steam Forums, or do I wanna fight the hugbox that is Tripwire's Forums.
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Jun 10, 2016 17:14
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One of the other problems of this change  trying to promote class diversity is it really fucks anyone attempting a solo or 2/3 player run, because you will never be able to cover all the 87 resist bases, so it means any small group will naturally have to gravitate towards the least weak classes just to have a chance. in the spirit of trying to promote 6-player diversity they killed any diversity in small groups who actually want to succeed. mmm yes. Kikas posted:I was considering gathering our feedback, taking some of the vitrol out and posting in on forums that are actually read by the developers. I'll back you up if you post it; just let me know if you decide to piss or hug. for example, LuciferMorningstar posted:Just turn it into a different game mode. Call it "hardcore survival" or something. Sometimes it's kind of interesting/fun to pound nails into your balls. I just don't want to do that all the time. Suicidal was feeling like it was moving to a good place prior to this patch. Now it just feels kind of tedious. this is probably the most palatable option for TWI not to feel like they've wasted their dev time and to not burn the gameplay and salt the earth for the rest of us Psion fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 17:15
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Kikas posted:I was considering gathering our feedback, taking some of the vitrol out and posting in on forums that are actually read by the developers. the former is meaningless, the steam forum for this game is already on fire and insane laughter is filtering through the hills the latter could have some use, but there's no way i care enough to expend that level of mental energy, so if you do god bless
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Jun 10, 2016 17:21
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Coolguye posted:everything has been deserved, though i guess you can argue whether or not it's "childish". seriously, look at questioner's post next to the copy-pasted why early access thing i took from their steam page. they say like 8 times that they value feedback and input, and then this update came out with no warning or input from anyone outside of their internal testing team and the rep comes in here and basically throws a huff that the feedback is negative. i've been saying for months that it looks like Tripwire has no interest whatsoever in actual dialog and feedback and the last few days have been proof positive. everyone in this thread is well over the 2 hour refund time for this game so unless you have a better idea for protesting what amounts to a bait and switch then i dunno what the alternative is. This wasn't pushed with no warning, it is not in the main build of the game, you will not be exposed to it unless you download a 3.9 gigs beta on purpose. For me that is a statement that TWI is aware that this might be a controversial change and so has opened a preview beta to gather metrics and feedback from the community. What Questioner said was to give the system a chance in practice instead of throwing a fit over numbers and that they are ready to make changes. Do note that I didn't like it in practice and even did a longer post about what I found wrong about the resistances update, so I am not a blind apologist, but the way TWI is using the preview is the opposite of "just take it up your rear end", it is part of the dialog and feedback you are so adamant is non-existent.
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Jun 10, 2016 17:21
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Kikas posted:And here was a long part over here that was basically "LOOK AT WHAT OVERKILL IS DOING WITH PAYDAY 2", and do that. Because that game wasn't very fun - patched - was fun - patched - was a bit awkward to play - patched - is now loving AWESOME to blast heads with cool guns sporting cool masks listening to cool beats. I wanted to note this, too. Overkill saw that the game balance was getting stagnant, so they overhauled everything to improve how many viable options were available to the players. It worked out great and got me playing a lot more after a long break. Tripwire saw that the game balance was getting stagnant, so they overhauled everything to force players into specific roles with no room for overlap or redundancy. It's frankly stunning.
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Jun 10, 2016 17:24
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Psion posted:One of the other problems of this change That came out exactly right. I feel like even with a 6 player game like this one, you should still balance for 4 people. Because 4 is a reasonable number to start a game. When playing with 3 players, you are just one person short, so you can make it up with skill. With 2 players well, you weren't gonna win this anyway. But then when you add the 5th and the 6th player, it's all good. It's not like the players will feel like they aren't neccessary, God knows with the new resistances in place we need all the manpower we can get shooting The 5th or 6th player allow the team to maybe cover the other end of that one corridor, or to spread the them further apart to maximise the killing potential. Or maybe they just add enough to the mix that you can feel like a group of badasses kicking rear end and tossing dosh left and right, not just barely holding on like it would be with 4 players. I felt like this was already happening, but now we all gotta huddle together around the Firebug because he has them Microwaves. DoombatINC posted:I wanted to note this, too. Overkill saw that the game balance was getting stagnant, so they overhauled everything to improve how many viable options were available to the players. It worked out great and got me playing a lot more after a long break.
Kikas fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 17:25
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ZearothK posted:This wasn't pushed with no warning, it is not in the main build of the game, you will not be exposed to it unless you download a 3.9 gigs beta on purpose. For me that is a statement that TWI is aware that this might be a controversial change and so has opened a preview beta to gather metrics and feedback from the community. What Questioner said was to give the system a chance in practice instead of throwing a fit over numbers and that they are ready to make changes. Do note that I didn't like it in practice and even did a longer post about what I found wrong about the resistances update, so I am not a blind apologist, but the way TWI is using the preview is the opposite of "just take it up your rear end", it is part of the dialog and feedback you are so adamant is non-existent. yeah i'm just gonna point you over to the clockwork empires thread if you'd like to get an idea of how EA communication is actually done because it's very clear we're not even talking with the same vocabulary at this point alternatively you can look through the Darkest Dungeon steam forum archives, they also did it basically right e: the #1 salient point to not completely dismiss you though, relates here: ZearothK posted:This wasn't pushed with no warning YES IT WAS. i don't give a poo poo if it showed up in a beta branch, you loving talk about these things before you go do them to get a feel for how people react to it. you don't go change literally the entire game and then say 'oh, well, it's in a beta branch so it's ok'. the message you send when you put poo poo into a beta branch is that this is what is going to happen, more or less. the resistance changes have a lot deeper problems than the numbers being twiddled around, it's that the game, which was a pretty simple and fun shoot deadmans game, now has multiple layers of completely impenetrable numbers all affecting gameplay in a way that hasn't been cool since loving baldur's gate. where were the blog posts on this subject? where were the preview streams on twitch? where were the discussion threads on all forums regarding this proposed change? you don't have to do all of these things but even one of them would've gone a long way. if you want to relate it to PAYDAY again even with the recent skill change, overkill was talking about what they were doing, why they were doing it, and how they were doing it for over a month before the beta branch even showed up. you'd better believe that fires started from a hot mess of neckbeards who just wanted to play the same old techforcer build forever, but minor changes could be made and discussions could be had to make sure it didn't derail things or turn into a colossal goatfuck. one of the changes that was made even before the beta branch launched was a re-allocation of skill points. people were offended that they were 'losing' 16 skill points with this new system (120 with the old one, 104 maximum with the new one), so even before the beta branch launched, overkill said gently caress it, fine, 120 is acceptable. none of that has been done with tripwire - ever - and even when people are screaming for something very minor to be changed (like hans's melee being removeplayer.wmv) they can't even get a dialog going about why the change isn't being made until their requested change is rolled up with 50 other changes in a major patch, to the point where it arguably STILL isn't what people were asking for. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 17:31
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They did mention the resistances ahead of time, but it was a single Steam news post. I know what you mean though, and I agree.
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Jun 10, 2016 18:04
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Man, I only played this game during a free weekend (liked it a lot, but I don't buy early access games) but this resistance change sounds terrible. It's always more satisfying and fun to kill a lot of enemies easily--with elites sprinkled in for good measure--than struggle to kill a smaller amount of bullet sponges.
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Jun 10, 2016 18:16
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I played KF1 for years and have been enjoying these months of KF2, but I really feel the need to join the chorus here and say this: The new update and balance changes are not fun at all. Trip can provide any justification they want but let us be unequivocal: these changes are not fun. I am not enjoy playing the game with these resistances, I do not feel satisfied doing damage, I don't feel like this is even a fun challenge. Please, please change things. This makes me not want to play the game. Questioner said himself that if they heard this enough they would do something. Since Tripwire is completely resistant to our detailed arguments and analysis I hope that at least this will do some damage.
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Jun 10, 2016 18:29
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Coolguye posted:yeah i'm just gonna point you over to the clockwork empires thread if you'd like to get an idea of how EA communication is actually done because it's very clear we're not even talking with the same vocabulary at this point K? I did mention Payday 2 as an example of a horde shooter being better managed, though? And I agree that the resistances implemented are a bad change? You don't need to meltdown, the only point we are disagreeing is that you are regarding the optional preview build as an example of a final product and I am regarding it as a test of possible changes and it is clear that we talking through each other. TWI is not the best communicator (and their lead devs don't post here), but I insist that the beta within early access is part of the conversation, practice beats theory. It is their manhours at the end of the day.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:04
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