USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

Dexo posted:

Unethical, debatable. I probably lean to your side, as you could have done a ton to just get the news out there about what he said and what not .

This is more than punishing though. This is more like akin to speeding in Oklahoma, and when you get pulled over by a cop, they decide that you may be smuggling drugs, and rather than searching your car they decide to use Civil Forfeture to take everything you own pending court cases. So you are SOL until you can hire a lawyer, and get your poo poo back.

This is more like you drove too fast past your neighbor's house for his liking once, so he follows you around and calls the cops every time he thinks you're speeding, and eventually gets some power-tripping rear end in a top hat dispatched who suspends your license over a busted taillight.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 18:57

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 22:44

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

haveblue posted:

This is more like you drove too fast past your neighbor's house for his liking once, so he follows you around and calls the cops every time he thinks you're speeding, and eventually gets some power-tripping rear end in a top hat dispatched who suspends your license over a busted taillight.

That is also applicable.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 18:58

No Butt Stuff: Jun 10, 2004

Is Trump at Dallas Love Field?

CNN is saying there were shots fired outside?

E: Nope it's an airport.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:02

JeffersonClay: Jun 17, 2003; by R. Guyovich

Change Gawker to The National Review and Hulk Hogan to Elizabeth Warren and tell me how media outlets should have complete freedom to publish revenge porn targeting public figures.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:04

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/Hatewatch/status/741004534558957568

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:04

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/06/white-house-cracks-down-on-for-profit-colleges.html

quote:

Despite ripping off students and taxpayers for decades, the for-profit-college industry has proved remarkably resilient. Take the University of Phoenix, which paid millions of dollars in fines to the Feds for such unscrupulous practices as recruiting homeless people years ago. A serial offender, the 40-year-old college is now under investigation by the Federal Trade Commission and several state attorneys general for deceptive advertising and recruitment abuses of veterans, among other vulnerable groups.

Shares of its parent company have fallen 80 percent over the past five years, and enrollment has halved, but the University of Phoenix still received about $1.7 billion in government student loans last year, making up 80 percent of its revenues. And recently it struck a $1.1 billion deal to sell itself to private-equity giant Apollo Investment Group.

Apollo might want to wait before signing the final deal documents, though. That�s because, in the waning days of the Obama administration, the government may take its boldest step yet to hold schools like the University of Phoenix accountable for their questionable business practices � and questionable business model. Indeed, Obama�s Department of Education plans to issue a rule that would forgive billions of dollars in loans granted to hundreds of thousands of students at for-profit schools that have defrauded or misled them. The government is also planning ways to make the schools pay for the debt relief. Critics hope the rule will ultimately persuade the government to quit funding loans for troubled colleges.

�This is a potentially decisive way to drive bad operators out of business,� says David Halperin, a public advocate and attorney who has lobbied extensively on for-profit-college reform and is working with a broad coalition of groups including the AFL-CIO, the American Federation of Teachers, the NAACP, the League of United Latin American Citizens, and even the Vietnam Veterans of America to press the Department of Education for strong action on a rule governing student-debt forgiveness.

Unlike public universities backed by taxpayers, or private nonprofit ones dependent on endowments, for-profit colleges are at the mercy of their shareholders. The business strategy has been one of open admissions and expensive tuition that requires recruiting students who can't afford college and are dependent on loans from the government. This dependence has long been a concern, and during the Clinton era these schools were prohibited from getting more than 90 percent of their revenues from federally backed student loans. But that has led to another problem: widespread abuses in targeting veterans by taking advantage of a loophole that excludes their student loans from the 90-10 calculation.

Since 2009, the Obama administration has been trying to rein in shady for-profit colleges, largely in the form of a so-called �gainful employment� rule that seeks to ensure graduates of the schools can earn enough to pay off their student loans. That rule is going into effect this year after surviving a legal challenge from the industry.

But the gainful-employment rule is not nearly as far-reaching as the new one, which could give blanket debt forgiveness to students who�ve attended fraud-plagued colleges. A student debt strike following the 2014 implosion of Corinthian Colleges, which had been one of the largest for-profit schools (and one that Florida senator Marco Rubio once begged the government to continue funding while it was under investigation), appears to have forced the department�s hand. A group called the Debt Collective, an offshoot of Occupy Wall Street, mobilized Corinthian students to stop paying those loans after it discovered an obscure provision in the U.S. Higher Education Act, called �borrower defense to repayment,� which provides for broad-based discharge of debts for those who attend colleges that defraud or mislead their students. But, at least until there is a rule governing the law, borrowers can�t just quit paying the loans without risking garnishment of wages, among other serious penalties. Many apparently still don�t realize relief is possible. Corinthian had 77,000 students in 2013, but only 20,000 people have formally asked for debt forgiveness � and that�s not the only school whose students can apply. So far, the piecemeal effort has been slow: The Department of Education has agreed to cancel some $27 million in debt for 3,421 borrowers, many of them former Corinthian students, The Wall Street Journal reported last month.

�These degrees are worthless, and millions of Americans have been scammed by these schools,� says Ann Larson, a co-founder of the Debt Collective. �Why is federal money going to this in the first place?�

The Department of Education is expected to release a proposed rule sometime in June, according to the Office of Management and Budget. As it has moved through its cumbersome negotiated rule-making process, the agency came up with an initial proposal that gives some indication of what the final one will look like. It suggested relief would be provided under three circumstances: if a judgment was entered against the school, if the school made substantial misrepresentations, or if it breached its contract with students. The final rule won�t be decided until late this year, after a public comment period.

In the meantime, thousands of people, like Los Angeles resident Nathan Hornes, have simply quit paying. �Today I work two minimum-wage jobs. I owe $78,000 in student-loan debt even though Everest [run by Corinthian] is being sued for fraud. Still, the Department of Education has refused to cancel my debt. I want to know: Why is the Department of Education supporting a scam for-profit school instead of students?� asks Hornes. A graduate of Corinthian�s Everest College with a bachelor�s degree in business and a 3.9 GPA, he joined the Corinthian student strike and posted his story on its web page.

Industry heavyweights are already pushing back against the rule. Among the most powerful is former Washington Post owner Don Graham, whose Graham Holdings owns Kaplan University, one of the seven largest for-profit schools that have been under investigation in recent years and collectively received $8 billion in student government-loan money last year. The entire industry receives about $30 billion a year in federal loan money, though that number amount is beginning to decline as enrollment falls off and schools shut down.

Last month, Graham met with senior administration officials about the new rule, arguing in a PowerPoint presentation that it would create an �unprecedented new set of student rights that could create massive liability for taxpayers; give unilateral fiscal power to the federal education department; and result in the bankruptcy of countless U.S. colleges and universities, devastating higher education.�

Kaplan estimated that a little under one-fifth of federal student loans during the 2014�2015 school year � $16 billion out of $96 billion � were awarded to students at for-profit schools. Those loans become part of the larger $1.3 trillion student-debt burden that has gotten so out of control it has emerged as an issue in the presidential campaign, bringing millions of young voters out to support Democratic nominee Bernie Sanders in part because he argued that public-college tuition should be free. While student debt is often a problem for even the best students coming out of top universities, it can be a catastrophe for economically disadvantaged students � including many veterans � coming out of for-profit schools. Nearly half of the 20 percent of students whose loans are in default attended for-profit colleges, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research. Student loans cannot be discharged through bankruptcy, either, so a new federal rule could offer relief to at least some of those debtors.

Until recently, curbing the predatory practices of the for-profit schools has seemed all but impossible, given the industry�s clout in Washington on both sides of the aisle. The two most recent Republican presidential nominees, Mitt Romney and Donald Trump, both have owned for-profit schools plagued by fraud accusations. A civil suit against Trump by former students of Trump University has become the focus of intense media attention � especially after Trump said that the judge overseeing the case should be recused because of his Mexican heritage. (The now-defunct Trump University wasn�t an accredited school, so its students couldn�t apply for federally backed loans.)

High-profile Democrats, including former president Bill Clinton, have also received money from for-profit schools over the years. After earning millions of dollars in speaking fees, he resigned as honorary chancellor of for-profit Laureate International Universities when Hillary Clinton was ramping up her White House run and began attacking the sketchy schools. But since the Corinthian debacle, a dozen Democratic senators, led by Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, have taken up the cause and are also pressing the Department of Education to take strong action.

Among other problems, for-profit schools often cost more than traditional colleges and often don�t prepare students for the jobs they were supposedly educated to perform. This month, a new working paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research found that students from nonprofit schools earn less after they attended them than before they went.

A tough standard will force the Department of Education to think twice about granting loans to students going to bad schools, argues Halperin. �In the end this will save the taxpayer a lot of money.� As always, the devil will be in the details. Halperin says his group is pressing for a broad rule. �If there is a finding or a settlement that relates to deception, or the department itself makes a finding, then all students should be presumptively and automatically entitled to full discharge of their loans unless the student checks a box saying I don't want loan forgiveness,� he argues.

With a multi-billion-dollar problem on its hands, the government�s thorniest issue is how to claw back money from the schools, since covering the loans could bankrupt many of them. In its initial proposal, the Department of Education said it planned to require that problem colleges show that they have the money to repay the loans or post a letter of credit anywhere from 10 percent to 50 percent of the amount it received in federal loans during the prior year, with the amount dependent on the likelihood of debt relief.

To show it�s serious, this week the government asked ITT Educational Services, which for almost a decade has been under investigation by multiple agencies, including the Securities and Exchange Commission, and is at risk of losing its accreditation, to increase the amount of its letter of credit to 20 percent of its loans in order to show it can meet its liabilities to its 43,000 students and taxpayers if it shuts down suddenly. When Corinthian failed two years ago, there was not enough money to cover the costs of its student loans, even though the college had received $1 billion in loans during its final year.

Because for-profit schools have always depended on government money, their lobbying effort and ties to powerful politicians have been critical to their success. None have been better at it than the University of Phoenix, whose founder, the now-deceased John Sperling, was a key Democratic power broker in D.C. The tradition is continuing with the publicly owned Apollo Education Group that owns the university. (It has no prior connection to Apollo Investment Group, which is the buyer.)

To grease the deal, which ultimately the Department of Education will need to bless, the University of Phoenix and Apollo brought in a small private-equity firm, Vistria, which has close ties to Obama, as a partner. Vistria founder Marty Nesbitt is one of President Obama�s closest friends and the chairman of the Obama Foundation. Tony Miller, Vistria�s chief operating officer and a partner, was deputy secretary of Education between 2009 and 2013. He will become the new chairman of Apollo Education Group when the deal closes in August.

�For too long and too often, the private education industry has been characterized by inadequate student outcomes, overly aggressive marketing practices, and poor compliance,� Miller said when the deal was announced, promising the University of Phoenix will become a model citizen under new management. If the Obama administration is serious about stopping the abuses, the University of Phoenix will have no other choice.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:05

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

haveblue posted:

This is more like you drove too fast past your neighbor's house for his liking once, so he follows you around and calls the cops every time he thinks you're speeding, and eventually gets some power-tripping rear end in a top hat dispatched who suspends your license over a busted taillight.

funding lawsuits to carry out a personal vendetta against a media outfit is detestable

posting a video of someone having sex without their consent is also detestable

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:08

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Gawker is gross but "it's okay if something lovely and hosed up happens as long as it happens to someone I dislike" isn't a good attitude to have.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:09

Spun Dog: Sep 21, 2004; Smellrose

Grey Fox posted:

Gawker is the name of the entire company, not just Gawker.com, so yeah, it includes everything. What the real implications are, however, yet to be seen.

Also

https://twitter.com/patrickklepek/status/740573446585868288

(I'm thinking he's got something else lined up, he was making comments at PAX East about Gawker's pending demise, so he's not blissfully unaware)

His family's rich, he'll be fine

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:11

Fuckt Tupp: Apr 19, 2007; Science

Hollismason posted:

Welp

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-adult-diaper-store-controversy-0610-biz-20160609-story.html

At least the bathroom use issues basically solve themselves in this case.

Stultus Maximus posted:

The idea that Muslims react to bacon like vampires to garlic never stops being the dumbest and funniest dumb thing.

The FBI should start doing the opposite of their terrorist honeypots but instead of weapons and bomb material they just provide bigots with bacon and arrest them with hate crimes when they harass Muslims. Or they will eat the bacon and die from easily preventable cardiac problems. Win win!

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:11

Gynocentric Regime: Jun 9, 2010; by Cyrano4747

ImpAtom posted:

Gawker is gross but "it's okay if something lovely and hosed up happens as long as it happens to someone I dislike" isn't a good attitude to have.

i see it as justice, given that gawker went to bat for their right to post the hulk hogan sex tape but then tore reddit a new one for posting the celeb nude pic leaks of 2014

it's almost like you can't decide what is revenge porn and what is not based on if the kitcsh factor of a washed up wrestler's penis allows you to profit under the thin veneer of journalistic integrity

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:13

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Trabisnikof posted:

So in your mind there is literally nothing a public figure could say or do that would warrant posting an except from a sex video?

nope! i can state unequivocally that it is never ok to post someone's sex tape without their consent. that is a no-no

under what conditions would it be permissible for me to post video of you beating it, trabisnikof? please elaborate

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:17

greatn: Nov 15, 2006; by Lowtax

I can assure you his penis was not washed up.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:18

No Butt Stuff: Jun 10, 2004

Trabisnikof posted:

Because courts have found multiple times that the video counts as in the public interest in a way that random nudes do not.

so the courts ruled that the video is noteworthy, and that's ok because the courts said so

but the courts also ruled against gawker, and awared hulk hogan damages, and that's not ok because the courts uh

so they uh

the courts are good when i agree with them, but the courts are making bad decisions when i disagree with them? is that right?

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:19

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Trabisnikof posted:

So in your mind there is literally nothing a public figure could say or do that would warrant posting an except from a sex video?

Because courts have found multiple times that the video counts as in the public interest in a way that random nudes do not.

What prevents them from just posting the audio if that's the damning part? Unless Hulk Hogan was signing out racist stuff in ASL while plowing some lady.

"Here's the audio from Hogan's sex tape where he says terrible poo poo" seems like it would be okay to report on.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:20

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

No Butt Stuff posted:

Maybe if he was a politician trying to outlaw masturbation?

That'd be a good example. Or maybe if I just berated people on air for being sinners for jacking it, then you had video proof I was a hypocrite? gently caress yah show it.

Especially in this media environment where accusations fly constantly, proof is a requisite for belief.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:21

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Dexo posted:

There was no actual news tied with the celebrity nude picture leak. Hogan was being a racist poo poo head on his sextape. Slight difference there

oh yeah i can see there's a big public need to alert the masses that the hot dog man who hit people in the face twenty years ago on tv for money and did a lot of cocaine had racially problematic views

we should also examine exactly how small his dick is

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:21

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

You can say 'haha Hogan said some racist stupid things on his sex tape' without just distributing the sex tape, crazy but true.

I agree and I don't even really hate the idea of Hogan getting paid from it however the fact that Hogan is specifically turning down easy money in order to just take down a website for some for some billionaire, because said site wrote bad stories about the billionaire kinda pisses me off.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:37

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Dexo posted:

I agree and I don't even really hate the idea of Hogan getting paid from it however the fact that Hogan is specifically turning down easy money in order to just take down a website for some for some billionaire, because said site wrote bad stories about the billionaire kinda pisses me off.

i think he's allowed to be mad, independently of the thiel-gawker feud, that gawker posted his sex tape and laughed at him. i would be mad

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:39

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Quote of the day, "I've already told you more than I know." ~ Haley Barbour

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:39

there wolf: Jan 11, 2015; by Fluffdaddy

This particular slap fight is getting tiresome. Let's switch to a different channel. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/magazine/choosing-a-school-for-my-daughter-in-a-segregated-city.html?smid=tw-nytmag&smtyp=cur&_r=0 Excellent article on the impact of segregation on schools with a heavy focus on New York and the writers own struggle with where to send her daughter.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:41

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Dexo posted:

I agree and I don't even really hate the idea of Hogan getting paid from it however the fact that Hogan is specifically turning down easy money in order to just take down a website for some for some billionaire, because said site wrote bad stories about the billionaire kinda pisses me off.

I think him being a billionaire doesn't make it not a valid thing to be pissed off at the dudes who smugly posted his sex tape, laughed about it, made a bunch of jokes and poo poo from it, then turn around going 'excuse me mr hogan we are serious journalists how dare you try to hurt this bastion of journalism'

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:42

Teddybear: May 16, 2009; Look! A teddybear doll!
It's soooo cute!

Yeah, this probably isn't super US POL material. PSP/WH2K/Rowdy Ringsports/whatever the gently caress it's called, the wrestling subforum, has had a thread on the case throughout, if we wanna keep chatting about it.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3767467

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:43

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

I think him being a billionaire doesn't make it not a valid thing to be pissed off at the dudes who smugly posted his sex tape, laughed about it, made a bunch of jokes and poo poo from it, then turn around going 'excuse me mr hogan we are serious journalists how dare you try to hurt this bastion of journalism'

Hogan isn't the billionaire here. The billionaire here is noted rear end in a top hat Peter Thiel who is funding Hogan's trial. If it was Hogan alone he would have taken the insurance money and been fine. Peter Thiel wanted this long drawn out thing that would eventually bankrupt Gawker.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:45

PhazonLink: Jul 17, 2010

My two cents on bacon/food chat. Why don't racists make their own bacon. I saw the Good Eats episode on bacon(which was also a Junkyard Wars parody) it's easy to make.

Racist are lazy and stupid. gently caress them.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:48

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Dexo posted:

Hogan isn't the billionaire here. The billionaire here is noted rear end in a top hat Peter Thiel who is funding Hogan's trial. If it was Hogan alone he would have taken the insurance money and been fine. Peter Thiel wanted this long drawn out thing that would eventually bankrupt Gawker.

While I have no evidence this is the case if somone posted and shamed me as what happened to Hogan and you told me I could either get paid a lot or get paid less and permanently ruin the people who did that to me I would choose to wreck them every time.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:52

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

it is important to me to see the gross wrestling man's penis so i can know he's racist

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:55

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

If only gawker had the decently to give us the audio and frame by frame still photos rather than a disgusting over the line video!

# ? Jun 10, 2016 19:59

Kalman: Jan 17, 2010

Barudak posted:

While I have no evidence this is the case if somone posted and shamed me as what happened to Hogan and you told me I could either get paid a lot or get paid less and permanently ruin the people who did that to me I would choose to wreck them every time.

Maybe so, but 1) since Thiel was bankrolling the case, he likely got final say and 2) the jury deserved to know that Thiel's hurt feelings were part of why the case was being brought.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 20:03

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Trabisnikof posted:

If only gawker had the decently to give us the audio and frame by frame still photos rather than a disgusting over the line video!

it's still hilarious to me that gawker who was all in defense of the people who had nudes leaked in 2014 is being destroyed because they leaked nudes in 2012

# ? Jun 10, 2016 20:03

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Joementum posted:

Quote of the day, "I've already told you more than I know." ~ Haley Barbour

I understand it's a malapropism but I also like to think this was the only sentence she said in the conversation.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 20:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

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Dexo posted:

haveblue posted:

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haveblue posted:

Popular Thug Drink posted:

Grey Fox posted:

Hollismason posted:

Stultus Maximus posted:

Popular Thug Drink posted:

ImpAtom posted:

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Trabisnikof posted:

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Trabisnikof posted:

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Trabisnikof posted:

No Butt Stuff posted:

Dexo posted:

Popular Thug Drink posted:

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Tatum Girlparts posted:

Dexo posted:

Dexo posted:

Tatum Girlparts posted:

Dexo posted:

Barudak posted:

Trabisnikof posted:

Popular Thug Drink posted:

Joementum posted: