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Deltasquid posted:That's essentially what I meant, yes. Although article 46 of the European Convention on Human Rights establishes a similar binding force on the UK as the European Treaties do. Crucially the UK could be taken to the ECJ over non-compliance, so their parliamentary tradition would be told to go gently caress itself in such a case... Unless you argue that they would also be able to deal with an unfavourable ECJ judgement with no loss, either material or diplomatic.
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Jun 10, 2016 22:16
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I said it the first time I saw this advert and I'll say it again: this could only be improved by having the "Inside the EU" horror story end with the younger woman crying over a coffin. Honestly it's so many levels of disingenuous I laugh my arse off every time.
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Jun 10, 2016 22:23
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Tesseraction posted:I said it the first time I saw this advert and I'll say it again: this could only be improved by having the "Inside the EU" horror story end with the younger woman crying over a coffin. It's terribly bad.
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Jun 11, 2016 01:32
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Dawncloack posted:It's terribly bad. What are the Stay adds like?
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Jun 11, 2016 06:47
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It's just Manuel Barroso looking at the camera intensely.
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Jun 11, 2016 07:02
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Against my better judgment I decided to dip my toe into /r/unpolitical to see how the wider world was handling the run up to the referendum. To say it was an unpleasant experience filled with overwhelming Leave circle jerking would probably be a bit of an understatement, although it might have just been a bad time I caught them at, seeing as they were all luxuriating in an apparent 13 point swing to Leave that was reported in a poll on Friday.
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Jun 11, 2016 07:31
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No kidding. I don't even know what to say. There is a huge amount of leave advocates with a complete lack of even the most basic facts("the UK does almost no trade with the EU"). People are making absolutely ridiculous arguments like "we don't need all those badly educated EU professionals, we can just replace them with quality Indian(lol) and Chinese(lmao) engineers". And there is a general trend of hyping China and talking about its rapid economic growth, compared to the small, stagnant and unimportant EU. Wtf is this? What is going on in this country? Is there some gas leak somewhere or what? Apparently someone did a national survey and came to the conclusion that the British public is factually wrong on almost everything that they belief. Maybe it's better if they just leave? Cause whatever is going on in that country, it's kinda scary and I don't want it to spread.
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Jun 11, 2016 10:04
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waitwhatno posted:Wtf is this? What is going on in this country? Is there some gas leak somewhere or what? Apparently someone did a national survey and came to the conclusion that the British public is factually wrong on almost everything that they belief. same i'm hoping uk diplomats are so hopelessly incompetent that the brexit shitshow will take longer than it takes me to graduate
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Jun 11, 2016 10:41
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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waitwhatno posted:And there is a general trend of hyping China and talking about its rapid economic growth, compared to the small, stagnant and unimportant EU. This is really funny, because yeah, when you've got a pre-industrial country and you're industrializing it, of course you're gonna have colossal levels until you catch up with the rest of the world; and China's economy is starting to run out of breath already anyway. If you really want to imitate China's growth, it's really easy: first, you've got to dismantle all your industries and infrastructures to set your GDP back to as close to 0 as possible, and then you can get an astounding growth rate as you rebuild!
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Jun 11, 2016 10:46
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Well, I wouldn't be surprised if it was effective among the portion of the population which is most in favor of leaving. I mean, the woman dying from a sore throat looks to be of a similar age to that group, and the lack of factual basis doesn't really matter given that they know basically nothing about the EU other than it being terribly bad. I can't speak for the tv ads ad stuff, for one I don't own a TV and for two I am nowhere near the UK. The memes I see on facebook (and it being 2016 no one around here believes any more that memes in these circumstances are "spontaneous" right?) concentrate are either a concentrate of fear mongering presented, collections of buzzwords or celebrity endorsements. The first type is done with lists, because everyone trusts lists with numbers. (Eg. "The pound will collapse! We will evicted from the free market!!!. All of our pensioners will be evicted from Spain and they will be a drag on the NHS! [This one is specially funny, "let's dump this problem on Spain's lap lol] etc.etc.) The second type is something along these lines.  Buzzwords all the way down. Things like animal welfare were there before, human rights, the Council of Europe did that, and things like "Regulate business and tax justice" are just buzzwords. No one in my FB slapfights has been able to explain to me what "Tax justice" means for instance. Cleaner air? Mwahahaha that's my favorite. The legal principle "Nulla poena sine lege" means that any modification to a law that helps a defendant is applied retroactively. By raising caps in car emissions the EP lets VW scot free. If only they had a legal department or something to warn them that this would look bad! Oh and peace, that's my own pet peever. So much BS. The celebrity endorsements have been hilarious. "Djosselbloem says the UK should stop holding back of the EU" (What?). "Schauble says he will personally rape the British economy in case of Brexit!" (This one sounds kinda true tho). Seriously. And the funniest thing is how people who are usually critical of the IMF will use the IMF pronouncements about Brexit as authoritative quotes. I mean, wtf. The funniest video so far is "Brexit radicals try to burn a european flag but European fire protection regulations thwart them!". Of course, somebody with a balaklava on fucks up in front of the camera in exactly the appropiate way for their rival's campaign and they happily go release it. Yes. Gimme a second while I concentrate in believing it  Needless to say, this is just my anecdotal experience, I'm not trying to give it any larger meaning than that. Dawncloack fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 11:19
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Dawncloack posted:No one in my FB slapfights has been able to explain to me what "Tax justice" means for instance.
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Jun 11, 2016 11:24
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I'm pretty sure that "regulate business" is also on the Leave campaign lists of things the EU is doing.
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Jun 11, 2016 11:24
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And China doesn't even want to deal with the UK individually, for understandable reasons. Having to deal with extra regulations, rules, customs and tariffs for a market of only ~50 million people is kinda a waste. I'm really curious to know how these "better deals" would even look like.
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Jun 11, 2016 11:27
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LemonDrizzle posted:The EU actually deserves a lot of credit on this score - it's probably done more than any other single nation or international organization to combat tax avoidance by multinationals. Vestager has been going pretty aggressively after Apple, Fiat, Starbucks, and several others. Well, please, could you convince me on this one? I admit that things like the double irish arrangement make me skeptical but if you could give me more data I'd be very glad. I've seen the high profile cases against certain companies, but I don't really know how serious or how for the show they are.
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Jun 11, 2016 12:00
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LemonDrizzle posted:The EU actually deserves a lot of credit on this score - it's probably done more than any other single nation or international organization to combat tax avoidance by multinationals. Vestager has been going pretty aggressively after Apple, Fiat, Starbucks, and several others. My understanding was that the double irish and dutch sandwich tax avoidance schemes were only possible due to the EU's free movement of capital rules and the interest & royalties directive that explicitly stops double taxation of royalties in favour of taxation only of the final right-holders of the IP.
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Jun 11, 2016 13:30
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Cat Mattress posted:If you really want to imitate China's growth, it's really easy: first, you've got to dismantle all your industries and infrastructures to set your GDP back to as close to 0 as possible, and then you can get an astounding growth rate as you rebuild! Well that's what austerity is when taken to its logical extreme, isn't it? That's pretty much how the British ruined India, too. It's consistent.
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Jun 11, 2016 13:39
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Shazback posted:My understanding was that the double irish and dutch sandwich tax avoidance schemes were only possible due to the EU's free movement of capital rules and the interest & royalties directive that explicitly stops double taxation of royalties in favour of taxation only of the final right-holders of the IP. Actually, tax avoidance models like the Irish and Dutch sandwich rely less on double taxation treaties or EU directives and more on the governments in the respective countries (e.g. Ireland, Netherlands) deliberately enabling such models in order to lure businesses to them and get revenue as a result of the employees of those businesses.
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Jun 11, 2016 14:35
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Cat Mattress posted:If you really want to imitate China's growth, it's really easy: first, you've got to dismantle all your industries and infrastructures to set your GDP back to as close to 0 as possible, and then you can get an astounding growth rate as you rebuild! Well then I have good news about what the Tories are doing to our infrastructure and economy.
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Jun 11, 2016 14:49
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Dawncloack posted:I can't speak for the tv ads ad stuff, for one I don't own a TV and for two I am nowhere near the UK.
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Jun 11, 2016 16:50
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The one about Schauble is semi-true - he petulantly said we'd be blocked from the Euro Economic Area if we displeased him by leaving. Nothing says a healthy political union like threatening Britain for deigning to consider leave.
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Jun 11, 2016 16:53
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Tesseraction posted:The one about Schauble is semi-true - he petulantly said we'd be blocked from the Euro Economic Area if we displeased him by leaving.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:00
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Yeah, it's eluding me too *pours whisky* can't put my finger on it.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:05
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Schaüble is very big on punishing disobedient countries. He's pretty much a real-life James Bond villain.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:13
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What gets me is he's a corrupt piece of poo poo who was even caught at it and yet he's just pulled straight back into the highest levels of government. Definitely the man to make finance minister.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:19
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Tesseraction posted:The one about Schauble is semi-true - he petulantly said we'd be blocked from the Euro Economic Area if we displeased him by leaving. Considering England is constantly threatening the EU with leaving or blocking if they don't get special privileges, I think it is appropriate to use pressure against the English in this context.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:33
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Tesseraction posted:The one about Schauble is semi-true - he petulantly said we'd be blocked from the Euro Economic Area if we displeased him by leaving. Pls don't hold the Union responsible for a shithead like Schauble...
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Jun 11, 2016 17:38
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He is kinda right though. You can't just join the EEA, like you join a swinger club, it doesn't work like that. Iceland and Norway are special, historic cases that wouldn't happen today.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:31
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Cat Mattress posted:Schaüble is very big on punishing disobedient countries. Don't kinkshame
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Jun 11, 2016 18:33
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Randler posted:Considering England is constantly threatening the EU with leaving or blocking if they don't get special privileges, I think it is appropriate to use pressure against the English in this context. Maybe from a less lovely excuse for a human being I'd consider it a fair analysis. In his case I'm just annoyed he hasn't died from huffing his own farts so much. Friendly Humour posted:Pls don't hold the Union responsible for a shithead like Schauble... Oh no no no, it's Germany's fault pure and simple. They allowed a piece of poo poo like him to hold power and so, like Britain for allowing this Tory government to power, it is a national shame and unrelated to the union. That said you let True Finns into power so you are also on the list of Turd Countries. waitwhatno posted:He is kinda right though. You can't just join the EEA, like you join a swinger club, it doesn't work like that. Iceland and Norway are special, historic cases that wouldn't happen today. This is true but he wasn't saying it as idle speculation, he was saying it as a threat.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:49
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Tesseraction posted:That said you let True Finns into power so you are also on the list of Turd Countries. The TF have accomplished nothing in the government.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:51
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Andrast posted:The TF have accomplished nothing in the government. The same could be said of the Lib Dems but that doesn't mean my country wasn't garbage as gently caress from 2010-2015.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:53
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Tesseraction posted:The same could be said of the Lib Dems but that doesn't mean my country wasn't garbage as gently caress from 2010-2015. Letting the True Finns into the government was preferable to making them stay out. This way everybody saw how poo poo they are and they have lost like half of their voters because of it.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:55
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Andrast posted:Letting the True Finns into the government was preferable to making them stay out. This way everybody saw how poo poo they are and they have lost like half of their voters because of it. If the British government is any metric then next election everyone will vote for the worse party instead.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:09
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I will, in fact, blame the EU for Schauble, because he has enough support in the Eurogroup meetings from other finance ministers that he can throw his weight around and have the Union-wide influence that he does. Present Schauble wouldn't have been possible without the various Djisselbloems of the other countries.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:11
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Schäuble is a true European and vanquisher of populists. If you are against Schäuble you stand with FN, UKIP and SYRIZA.
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Jun 12, 2016 14:12
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Vanquishing populists so well FN and UKIP are getting more and more popular and 50% of Austria voted for a far-right candidate plus Alternativ für Deutschland are scooping up popularity in the polls? Sounds like he's doing a fantastic job. 
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Jun 12, 2016 15:00
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GaussianCopula posted:If you are against Schäuble you stand with FN, UKIP and SYRIZA. You say this like it's a bad thing?
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Jun 12, 2016 15:45
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I'm interested in the Swiss basic income referendum. Is there somewhere in this thread or on D&D where it was being actively discussed? Thanks!
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Jun 12, 2016 15:52
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Yeah seriously if you look at FN's meteoric rise and somehow think Schauble is dousing that flame instead of fanning it up you're a complete idiot.
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Jun 12, 2016 15:55
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steinrokkan posted:Crucially the UK could be taken to the ECJ over non-compliance, so their parliamentary tradition would be told to go gently caress itself in such a case... Unless you argue that they would also be able to deal with an unfavourable ECJ judgement with no loss, either material or diplomatic. I wouldn't; I'm just explaining the (frankly delusional) cultural background in the UK that causes them to believe they can just tell "outsiders" to get lost and do their own thing. Monistic countries have that a bit less because international and EU law is, for all intens and purposes, in the same hierarchic system as national law. Of course leaning heavily on Parliamentary Sovereignty and doing their own thing will cause every institution and court in Europe to utterly demolish the UK, materially or diplomatically, as you said. But the public seems to have this idea that they're doing everyone a favour by staying in out of the good of their hearts, fueled by notions like Parliamentary tradition. Nilbop posted:Against my better judgment I decided to dip my toe into /r/unpolitical to see how the wider world was handling the run up to the referendum. To say it was an unpleasant experience filled with overwhelming Leave circle jerking would probably be a bit of an understatement, although it might have just been a bad time I caught them at, seeing as they were all luxuriating in an apparent 13 point swing to Leave that was reported in a poll on Friday. Tell me about it. Even other forums I frequent that generally have a fairly pro-EU streak to them have a circlejerk of leave supporters getting into slap fights with other Europeans. To the point where "Almost one third of Belgians want their own referendum" was heralded by the leave supporters as proof that more countries will follow, and mentioning that "this means more than 66% want to stay in" caused flamewars. Deltasquid fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Jun 12, 2016 |
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