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Brannock posted:Is there a real-world difference in impact between intentional structural prejudice and unintentional structural prejudice? For example, I'm sure that the businesses who discriminated against women who were likely to get pregnant (they didn't want to lose a worker for a given amount of time, or to invest in a worker who would eventually leave to take care of her family) weren't actively prejudiced against women, it "just made economic sense" to select for employees who were unlikely to need time off. We, of course, saw this for the problem it was and took measures to alleviate it. Is it any different when the current education system ends up advantaging girls to a large extent over boys? Arguably, the right solution to that was to say, "you can't act with prejudice toward employees who you think may need to take time off at some point" which is a category that's much broader than women, but would also include women. quote:As for the benefit of privilege, I don't think children have had much opportunity to take advantage of it yet and that glorying in their failure, like THC is doing, is in poor taste. Incorrect. I don't think we should be happy about their failure in any event, to be clear, but children are some of the most affected by privilege (namely, that of their parents).
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Jun 10, 2016 23:57
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PT6A posted:Arguably, the right solution to that was to say, "you can't act with prejudice toward employees who you think may need to take time off at some point" which is a category that's much broader than women, but would also include women. Having equivalent paternity and maternity leave policies goes a long way there.
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Jun 11, 2016 00:12
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THC posted:White men deserve to feel less valued by society, and to actually be less valued. It's not enough to just make them feel bad Aggravating ethnic tensions within a society tends to produce really horrific results.
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Jun 11, 2016 00:19
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Subjunctive posted:Having equivalent paternity and maternity leave policies goes a long way there. Agreed 100%*! That is not, in and of itself, enough to deal with the broader problem, though. We also need protection for employees who might be expected to take more time off than average for other reasons -- chronic illness (either mental or physical) comes to mind. Again, it's not even based on who will actually take more time off, but simply who might, and I think it's a cornerstone of workers' rights to restrict employers from making hiring decisions based on such factors wherever practicable. * It's also worth noting that this would help gay parents, and would probably help to erode the idea that women should be the primary caretakers of children, which would further advance gender equality and help to demolish some elements of toxic masculinity (including the big issue that MRAs like to bitch about : the fact that women sometimes get an advantage in custody battles).
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Jun 11, 2016 00:26
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Helsing posted:Aggravating ethnic tensions within a society tends to produce really horrific results. The problem is that we're reaching a point where some people feel "continuing to advance racial equality" is tantamount to aggravating ethnic tensions. White men do deserve to feel less valued in society, because they are currently valued more than minorities or women, which they don't deserve -- no one deserves to feel intrinsically more valuable than someone else. I'm a white man and I can deal with that fact. EDIT: You can see this bigtime with berniebros. Even self-identified progressive white men seem to have a problem with the idea that women's ideas and minorities' ideas are as valuable and valid as their own.
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Jun 11, 2016 00:29
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PT6A posted:The problem is that we're reaching a point where some people feel "continuing to advance racial equality" is tantamount to aggravating ethnic tensions. White men do deserve to feel less valued in society, because they are currently valued more than minorities or women, which they don't deserve -- no one deserves to feel intrinsically more valuable than someone else. I'm a white man and I can deal with that fact. Man, this is why I love this forums just reading poo poo like this gives me a big laugh and smile to think there are people who really, really, genuinely believe this and in fact there are white males themselves too that think this *plays youtube video white male SCREAMING you're a loving white male*
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Jun 11, 2016 00:41
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A feel-good story about murder and the state's access to encrypted communication:Vice posted:Rouleau even admitted to the judge, during one ex parte hearing, that his own phone would be vulnerable to the type of intrusion the RCMP used on the targets of the investigation.
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Jun 11, 2016 00:43
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PT6A posted:Agreed 100%*! That is not, in and of itself, enough to deal with the broader problem, though. We also need protection for employees who might be expected to take more time off than average for other reasons -- chronic illness (either mental or physical) comes to mind. Again, it's not even based on who will actually take more time off, but simply who might, and I think it's a cornerstone of workers' rights to restrict employers from making hiring decisions based on such factors wherever practicable. I agree completely. I've spent more than a cumulative year on disability for depression, and while I talk about it freely I know many people who are afraid of being passed over as an absence risk. It keeps them from getting help in many ways.
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Jun 11, 2016 00:57
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Helsing posted:Aggravating ethnic tensions within a society tends to produce really horrific results.
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Jun 11, 2016 01:06
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THC posted:Ah yeah, ethnic tensions, such a big problem in Canada For someone that lives in the lower mainland, this is a willfully blind opinion.
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Jun 11, 2016 02:01
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Do it ironically posted:Man, this is why I love this forums just reading poo poo like this gives me a big laugh and smile to think there are people who really, really, genuinely believe this and in fact there are white males themselves too that think this Believe what? That white men have it better off than others? Like, that's a pretty established fact. I'm not sure what someone being angry on youtube has to do with it.
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Jun 11, 2016 02:11
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The Dark One posted:A feel-good story about murder and the state's access to encrypted communication: It's news, but it's not. RIM has publicly admitted to handing over their keys to India, Pakistan (IIRC), and Saudi Arabia, in exchange for being allowed to continue operating in those countries. There was absolutely no chance they hadn't done the same in Canada and the US ages ago. Why they decided to allow those plea deals rather than have the RCMP admit they've had the keys for years is unclear since it's obvious they have them.
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Jun 11, 2016 02:12
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infernal machines posted:Why they decided to allow those plea deals rather than have the RCMP admit they've had the keys for years is unclear since it's obvious they have them. Maybe they don't want the courts to produce case law restricting their use of said global key from case to case at their own discretion. The technique of wiretapping one phone line is similar to tapping another but the courts have previously ruled that doesn't mean they can do it to everyone without a warrant.
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Jun 11, 2016 05:02
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Hmmm.......quote:“People have to know that when you sign a deal with Canada, a change in governments won’t immediately scrap the jobs and benefits coming from it,” the prime minister said in an interview in his office in Parliament’s Centre Block. “Because we’re not a banana republic.” tbf he's right. We're a petrostate, not a banana republic.
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Jun 11, 2016 05:03
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Dr. Stab posted:Believe what? That white men have it better off than others? Like, that's a pretty established fact. I think part of it is an inability to entertain two contradictory positions at the same time: that, as a person who's benefitted from privilege, you can have worked your rear end off for everything you have, and at the same time have benefitted from white/male privilege. Likewise, everyone in Canada has benefitted from "Canadian privilege." It's not to say that everyone in Canada has had an easy ride their whole life, but compared to most people, just having the legal right to live and work in Canada is an amazing boon. Nor does that mean that Canadians are lazy or undeserving of what they've earned, it's just a recognition that we've benefitted from things that a lot of people would give their left nut to have. I hate seeing this sort of thing framed as "white guilt." I don't feel guilty, and I love being a straight white guy with a decent bit of money, and no significant disabilities to speak of. It's great, it's basically easy mode for life. At the same time, I recognize what I got, and I'm not going to throw a fit if some of those advantages are diminished to make sure other folks have a fair shot. vyelkin posted:Hmmm....... He has a decent point; the blame for the Saudi deal lies with the people who signed it, not the current government. I'd argue that, in this case, human rights should trump other considerations, but in general the argument is sound.
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Jun 11, 2016 05:41
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Helsing posted:Aggravating ethnic tensions within a society tends to produce really horrific results. And yet in spite of Canada's history the country has yet to trigger a widespread genocide (Natives excluded from that generalization obviously) and the state has yet to collapse although I suppose it was leaning in that direction at least once.
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Jun 11, 2016 05:50
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PT6A posted:
That seems facile though, what about say, the f35 deal he might break? Or the other stuff they rolled back
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Jun 11, 2016 07:33
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PT6A posted:He has a decent point; the blame for the Saudi deal lies with the people who signed it, not the current government. I'd argue that, in this case, human rights should trump other considerations, but in general the argument is sound. given that this is similar to the argument Dion made, I'm surprised you'd think this and in general it's a lousy argument - because context will always matter with respect to such deals
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Jun 11, 2016 07:40
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ocrumsprug posted:For someone that lives in the lower mainland, this is a willfully blind opinion.
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Jun 11, 2016 11:42
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THC posted:Canada's gonna have a civil race war just because white dudes don't get to feel like they're the literal best anymore Hey it happened to America it happened to us (although up here it'd be "why do those natives want more poo poo the government already gives them everything anyway")
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Jun 11, 2016 11:49
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I don't think it'll be that. The housing bubble will pop, the FIRE industry will collapse and boomers are going to lose much of their ~home equity~ and CMHC is sitting on $30 billion of "insured" holdings. I'm legit wondering who they're going to try and blame. edit: Who the business side of Canada is going to blame. Consumer side is just going to be nothing but "  I signed because Scotiabank says I'm richer than I think!"
less than three fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 12:16
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less than three posted:I don't think it'll be that. Honestly I don't think it's fair to aim blame for stuff like this at consumers, we are constantly induced to buy and take advantage of offers and be part of the system so that when we get dire warnings of overvalued homes but the BoC still keeps interest dates low and provincial governments do nothing to curtail foreign capital using our houses as investment venues all you can do is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. As long as we keep our banks from over leveraging and doing the whole subprime derivative thing, maybe the bubble could pop and our banking infrastructure wouldn't collapse. The best thing of course would be to take biblical inspiration here and mandate a debt forgiveness period to help disentangle all the consumer debt without bankrupting half the country (because gently caress banks they can take some losses) but we are way too close to the US in proximity and policy to ever offer amnesty like that to anyone Ron Paul Atreides fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 13:11
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less than three posted:I don't think it'll be that. The current status quo is to blame the state and implement eternal austerity measures.
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Jun 11, 2016 14:04
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vyelkin posted:Hmmm....... How did you not post the best part that totally definitely actually happened. quote:But Canadian exports are valuable precisely because Canada is admired around the world, Trudeau said, and blowing that advantage by overlooking human-rights concerns would be a false economy. “If a middle-class family in Shanghai or Guangzhou is looking for a good-quality product, we want them to look at a maple leaf and say, ‘OK, it’s good quality,’ ” he said.
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Jun 11, 2016 14:22
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What's unbelievable about that? That sounds like a very typical response.
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Jun 11, 2016 14:28
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Dr. Stab posted:What's unbelievable about that? That sounds like a very typical response. you see we have no reason to criticize the Chinese until we ourselves have become the beacon of a society free from discrimination and oppression.
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Jun 11, 2016 14:47
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sitchensis posted:you see we have no reason to criticize the Chinese until we ourselves have become the beacon of a society free from discrimination and oppression. Well it seems like a true and honest criticsm from the Chinese. It's not as though the terrible treatment of indigenous people here is somehow over or in the past.
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Jun 11, 2016 15:09
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You see son sometimes to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs. Natives are the eggs.
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Jun 11, 2016 15:21
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Dr. Stab posted:What's unbelievable about that? That sounds like a very typical response. I don't know. The Chinese do like ribbing western countries about their own poor track record, regardless of how awful the PRC has been and continues to be.
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Jun 11, 2016 15:22
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sitchensis posted:you see we have no reason to criticize the Chinese until we ourselves have become the beacon of a society free from discrimination and oppression. Right, exactly. It's typical to say "How dare you criticize us when you do bad things" in response to being called out on human rights abuses.
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Jun 11, 2016 15:40
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"Hey Chinese Leaders, do you think that Tiananmen square thing might have been a bit much?" "Whoa, slow down there Mr. Not a Level 5 Vegan"
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Jun 11, 2016 15:53
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PT6A posted:You can't casually sexually harass women any more, and don't even get me started about people react when you say the n-word in a public place You people genuinely believe this stuff is interesting and worthwhile enough to type words about
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Jun 11, 2016 16:00
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The Dark One posted:A feel-good story about murder and the state's access to encrypted communication: if the police can't learn it by following people in dark cars with the lights off, they shouldn't be able to use it in a prosecution. I am a INternet Libertarian, you see, and care deeply about encryption and privacy. Furthermore,
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Jun 11, 2016 16:03
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terrorist ambulance posted:You people genuinely believe this stuff is interesting and worthwhile enough to type words about You seem awfully upset about it. Do you need a safe space
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Jun 11, 2016 16:22
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THC posted:Canada's gonna have a civil race war just because white dudes don't get to feel like they're the literal best anymore Reminder that Quebec Anglo loved the Confederacy so much they housed Jefferson Davis after the War and gave him standing ovations. There's a loving memorial plate in Downtown Montreal. I loving hate that plate.
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Jun 11, 2016 16:53
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MonsieurChoc posted:Reminder that Quebec Anglo loved the Confederacy so much they housed Jefferson Davis after the War and gave him standing ovations. There's a loving memorial plate in Downtown Montreal.  I had forgotten all about that horrifying thing. Thanks.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:14
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If I share my hate with enough people, they might take down the goddamn thing.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:15
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Dreylad posted:And yet in spite of Canada's history the country has yet to trigger a widespread genocide (Natives excluded from that generalization obviously) and the state has yet to collapse although I suppose it was leaning in that direction at least once. State collapse and genocide are pretty extreme examples. I'd be more concerned about the growth of racist organisations and gangs. Just look at what has happened in Greece or some of the other European countries that have essentially been told they are going to have to accept permanent and severer drops in their living standards. I'd also be concerned that Canada's vaunted progressive attitudes toward gender and religion are not immutable. Some of our parties have even flirted with this kind of stuff in Quebec and we should be glad that it didn't go over very well. All of this would take time and it would take some really terrible external events. I'm not saying this is our future. I'm just warning it's really stupid to cheerleader the growing anger and frustration of a powerful and well armed ethnic group with a history of controlling the state. We've seen that scenario play out before and it's rarely pretty for anyone involved. Ikantski posted:How did you not post the best part that totally definitely actually happened.  Even when he's referring to relations with Asia it still comes down to "the middle class", Jesus Christ. I guess it would have been awkward to talk about Chinese factory workers or peasants.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:25
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PT6A posted:He has a decent point; the blame for the Saudi deal lies with the people who signed it, not the current government. I'd argue that, in this case, human rights should trump other considerations, but in general the argument is sound. Wrong. Dion signed the export permits without which the deal could not have proceeded. He took full responsibility and gave an embarrassing, merciless and gutless defense: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/dion-takes-responsibility-for-pushing-through-saudi-arms-deal/article29672290/ Oh no, think of the wretched human waste working for defense contractors! Imagine the horror of potentially losing international tuition from Saudi prince(ss)lings! gently caress Dion, I have no respect for him anymore. Precambrian Video Games fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 17:31
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Dr. Stab posted:Right, exactly. It's typical to say "How dare you criticize us when you do bad things" in response to being called out on human rights abuses. And you are lynching Negroes.
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