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XK posted:I don't think the whales can provide enough to keep this operating as an ongoing concern. Based on what Frontier is paying out, a seemingly well run studio, not spread across the globe with a dozen or so studios, not doing useless mocap with celebrities, at 3,000,000 per month, I can't see how they are below 4-5 million per month. The suspicious funding tracker is dropping them well below that. Even if we are generous, and say they are only burning 3 million per month, their clock is ticking. Oh the clock is definitely ticking, but I very much doubt anyone at CIG will be honest enough to stop before the last dollar is spent. They're going to keep spending until they literally can not spend any more. After all, the backers will never know. edit: catte. 
Slow_Moe fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 19:02
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I think telling anyone that the game crashed will get you banned, because it makes them look bad and that's against the ToS. I made that up, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:03
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SurfaceDetail posted:Its awesome Anybody play Overwatch on ps4? I don't have a decent pc and wonder if it's decent on console.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:04
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Skellybones posted:What worries me is how it took over a week after expiry for them to update the TOS despite it looming for the past six months. Did Croberts veto any attempts to write a new TOS until they finally convinced him that Star Citizen hadn't already gone gold and been launched worldwide? No they did it because it was the end of the day right on Friday right before E3. As it happens they lucked out incredibly with Gawker (Kotaku's parent company) declaring bankruptcy over the Hulk Hogan backed by Facebook found money trial on the same day. Friday evening before E3 nearly every single games journalist would have left the office and checked out from twitter/news while getting ready packing and having a last night in town with loved ones. The Gawker / Kotaku / Hulk Hogan story is perfect because that can take up most of the drama space that's left in anticipation of news. Right now there is so little games journalist time and so many leaks that SC wouldn't even rate attention short of CR on stream doing coke saying "gently caress the backers". CIG played it perfect and got lucky with Kotaku. I'm suprised they didn't wait a couple of more weeks until the Paypal end of June deadline to pull this poo poo but this is probably just as well. They can slow walk all US based refund requests for the next 3 weeks then promptly ignore them forever.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:05
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Beet Wagon posted:It's really tough trying to decide whether to respond to this with a picture of a fart, a picture of kayak, or a picture of legman. A picture of Kayak farting on Legman?
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Jun 11, 2016 19:06
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Ponzi posted:I think telling anyone that the game crashed will get you banned, because it makes them look bad and that's against the ToS. Funny thing: you're not making it up. At least not from a certain point of view.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:07
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A CERTAIN point of VIEW?
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Jun 11, 2016 19:09
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CIG really couldn't have waited for a better time to drop this. Anyone who covers games is currently en route to LA so even if someone thought about covering it they wouldn't be able to for about a week when E3 news ends and by then it'll be relatively old news.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:11
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Streetroller posted:So up until about 2 hours ago when I read the new ToS I was supporting Star Citizen. First of all let me give you our official welcome. Some of us were among the original whales, many more have joined our ranks ever since. We welcome all.  quote:Truth be told, I'm not a Derek fan... and I have a significant investment in Star Citizen... quote:But with all the recent events of finding out I'm being labeled, the plagiarism, this new ToS made me genuinely angry. My question to you is... how are things inside the whalepod at the moment? How intrusive is the stuff we bring up on a daily basis? What perception do you have of us? What do "you people" think motivates us?
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Jun 11, 2016 19:11
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Tippis posted:I'm not sure he remains in the pool of the faithful. I don't know if it'll ever come out. I've been so busy at my new job that I haven't been paying attention. Today I'm setting up a new IKEv2 auth/tunnel for VPN access. Hope everyone is doing well, cattes are still being posted and such.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:12
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XK posted:I'm interested on the bets of whether they are going to have a slow collapse, or an instant implosion where the employees get locked out and their paychecks bounce. I'm leaning toward the instant implosion scenario. Waves of metronomic explosions over the next 6 - 9 months that reduce them from presumptive King of the Space Game Market to a Beggar Prince in exile. External impacts include the overdue turn of the Gaming Press, the stealing of mind and marketshare by AAA competitors, possible backer lawsuits, etc. Internal impacts include more high profile departures, massive reduction in headcount to reduce cash burn, continued difficulties overcoming the myriad limitations of StarEngine, etc. CIG has stubbornly refused to diversify their income streams and remains hopelessly addicted to spacepixel concept sales as their lifeblood. This worked fantastically in the early years yet they just can't hit those same highs anymore, yet now the true price of their epic binges is coming due. Put differently... Chris and Sandi led hundreds of thousands through the Wilderness, coaxing fortunes from them along the way with tales of The Promised Land ahead. Such wonderous takes-- a land flowing with milk and honey, always right around the next bend! Yet now they stand before an unclimbable mountain of engineering debt. They lack the skills and tools to conquer it. Their only choice is to call the land where they now stand the new Promised Land. There's no milk, there's no honey. The only thing they have to eat are bugs-- so many bugs! Those who can live with that will stick around, I guess. But most will just take a $60 helicopter ride out to someone else's Promised Land. And they'll get there.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:13
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ManofManyAliases posted:I'm being 100% sincere. The new ToS is the most solid they have put forth yet. It's not ambiguous and really shouldn't negatively affect 99% of backers. Really? Telling them you get what we give you, not what you may have
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Jun 11, 2016 19:14
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Has moma been on trying to defend the new CIG tos that says ' you can all get hosed we have your money ' ?
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Jun 11, 2016 19:16
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Release a major game update on a friday thats broken. Cool beans. Gotta make sure we drop the bad news TOS on a weekend during e3
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Jun 11, 2016 19:17
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Jobbo_Fett posted:The TOS you agreed to when making purchases are expired, you still haven't received the final product so you should be able to get a refund.  THIS IS NOT HIPERBOLE CIG is monitoring this thread and trying to connect accounts here to their CIG counterparts. Be careful what you post if you wish to remain anonymous to them.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:17
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Hi CIG!)
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EightAce posted:Has moma been on trying to defend the new CIG tos that says ' you can all get hosed we have your money ' ? Of course. It's the best ToS ever.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:19
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Dante80 posted:
There goes the Sandi theory. Or maybe that's what She wants us to think...
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Jun 11, 2016 19:19
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I wonder if at some point they will have the balls to admit that CryEngine 3 is outdated, has never been a good fit and that they broke it beyond repair. One goal was to get the most out of modern PC gaming hardware which is hardly possible with a CryEngine 3 based game anymore. They left scorched earth with CryTek, but now with CryEngine 5 being available with full source code and pretty much no strings attached maybe that would be an option? It probably wouldn't be a better fit for the game they are trying to make, but hey - the fidelity!
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Jun 11, 2016 19:20
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EightAce posted:Has moma been on trying to defend the new CIG tos that says ' you can all get hosed we have your money ' ? How'd you guess?
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Jun 11, 2016 19:21
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peter gabriel posted:Yeah the game is straight up broken now, it's totally hosed ha ha
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Jun 11, 2016 19:21
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Streetroller posted:Bear in mind, $3k was dropped over the course of 3/4 years, including subscriptions and buying various ships. Ok so you cite CRs letter to The Escapist, the Zendesk tagging, the plagiarism and the new TOS as reasons you're getting out and assert that Derek did none of those things. Here is the first line of the escapist letter: I have, to date, attempted to stay above the internet drama currently surrounding Derek Smart and his claims about Star Citizen. The ZenDesk tagging was discovered by someone on the /r/starcitizen_trades Reddit. If this thread hadn't picked it up, run with it, screenshotted it and ran it into the ground with Dereks assistance it would never have left that comment thread. We were watching the ZenDesk site get updated live with our feedback in this thread. The plagiarism is the same. Some of it was noticed two years ago on the RSI forums and nothing happened. As soon as Derek and the filthy Goons (  ) got hold of it it became an issue and the art was pulled in hours.The new TOS is a direct reaction to Derek shouting from the rooftops about the clauses in the old TOS requiring them to give refunds and financial accountability. "Derek did none of those things. That was all CIG." Fair enough you've come to your senses and are now trying to get a refund, it might be too late - but it is loving lovely to not give Derek his due here. If it wasn't for him you wouldn't even be considering a refund and may have poured more money in.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:24
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cynic posted:Not reading 1,000 more posts is MoMA still insisting the game will come out and will be great but even if its ONLY GOOD he doesn't actually care? Nailed it, totally agree  Part of the reason I'm so involved in this trainwreck is I've been there on the inside, and I always leave before the poo poo really hits the fan and the awful, awful leadership gets their comeuppance. I can't wait until Chris Robberts sends his apology letter to the fans.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:26
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SelenicMartian posted:Does everyone having to wait for ship spawn mean everyone is on the landing pad stealing the first chariot that pops in? Not been able to play at all since the update so far
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Jun 11, 2016 19:26
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Chris and Sandi worked for free, using their independent wealth to live off of this entire time, because it would leave more money for development and they will profit a great deal once 100 million copies of Squadron 42 are sold and can take a wage then.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:27
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Ponzi posted:It's a running joke here to accuse someone of being Derek Smart, and was meant as much You know, if you would just LET HIM loving FINISH, there'd be no problems.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:30
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Tippis posted:Funny thing: you're not making it up. I'm not surprised.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:33
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MeLKoR posted:There goes the Sandi theory. Or maybe that's what She wants us to think... Can someone check her posting history in the SC forum to see if there's anything that caused her to get a ban? If nothing can be found, then you may be onto something.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:36
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Tippis posted:So the ToS is kind of like the Lament Configuration: a puzzle that summons pinheads? <shakes his head at the mangling of the old school genesis of Stimperialism>
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Jun 11, 2016 19:36
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Loiosh posted:I don't know if it'll ever come out. I've been so busy at my new job that I haven't been paying attention. Today I'm setting up a new IKEv2 auth/tunnel for VPN access. Well, you are still alive and well, so that's good.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:38
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I Greyhound posted:A sizable number of goons bought in for similar amounts of money when this was new. Then later had the same realization you did. Welcome. For a long time, the Star Citizen goons were full believers, had spreadsheets of how much money they had spent, and were the subject of mockery, derision, and scorn from other groups on the forums. I didn't really start following this on a consistent basis until towards the end of last year, but it's been neat to see them all slowly come around. 
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Jun 11, 2016 19:38
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TTerrible posted:Ok so you cite CRs letter to The Escapist, the Zendesk tagging, the plagiarism and the new TOS as reasons you're getting out and assert that Derek did none of those things. I read that as him saying that those were CIG's gently caress ups, that Derek didn't cause them. As in, CIG has no one to blame but themselves. I could be overly optimistic.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:39
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Someone go through the first thread and repost all of the shameful goon posts.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:40
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lmao major gaming news sites don't pick up on this stuff. if you're reading this you should be ashamed of yourself and go find a real job
Google Butt fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 19:42
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Ponzi posted:Can someone check her posting history in the SC forum to see if there's anything that caused her to get a ban? If nothing can be found, then you may be onto something. You can tell she's not Sandi because she sticks to the script and Sandi always manages to bring up some of her amazing qualities into whatever is being discussed.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:42
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Palisader posted:I read that as him saying that those were CIG's gently caress ups, that Derek didn't cause them. As in, CIG has no one to blame but themselves. I could be overly optimistic. Possible, but unlikely. If that is it then I'll apologise but I feel like we're entering the realm of "gently caress Derek Smart but.. anyone got a link to his blog about how to get a refund?" and that is lovely.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:43
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MeLKoR posted:My question to you is... how are things inside the whalepod at the moment? How intrusive is the stuff we bring up on a daily basis? What perception do you have of us? What do "you people" think motivates us? I can't really speak for all "whales" but the honest truth is I didn't really spend lots of time taking anything ya'll brought up very seriously because most of it was speculation, conjecture, or just rumor mill. I think Derek is definitely motivated by hatred, or just likes watching the world burn. I imagine him using a magnifying glass to light up ant hills and laughing maniacally when he's not online. It's hard to take someone's argument seriously when they're referring to you as a "Shitizen" What you guys say and do isn't really all that intrusive, if anything, it's the toxicity that's been bred out of it. No-one can criticize or look at the project objectively anymore because everyone seems to have a serious stake in seeing it succeed or fail. I've tried to stay far away from that stuff as much as possible. Unfortunately, I can't anymore. Like I said, my descent came all from CIG themselves; I never gave a poo poo what Derek said or didn't say - though I never thought he didn't have a right to say it. I'm not bothered by his motivations, though, whatever floats your boat. I *do* care about a company I gave $3k to says and does though, for sure. I originally found out we were being labeled from the Trades sub, that definitely rubbed me wrong. Derek can call me whatever the hell he wants, I'm not going to be treated like a second class citizen from a company I gave money to in good faith. Then there's the blatant plagiarism of the deviantartists and other games... The bailing out on E3, the bailing out on Gamescom. If there's a product, why isn't it being shown? That's what this comes down to. I gave money in good faith, and I no longer feel there is good faith anymore because of the changes and recent events. I feel like Théoden from Lord of the Rings, waking up from a dream and finding out it was really a nightmare. I'm not out to start a war with CIG, I just want my money back and to move on.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:45
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Loiosh posted:I don't know if it'll ever come out. I've been so busy at my new job that I haven't been paying attention. Today I'm setting up a new IKEv2 auth/tunnel for VPN access. Glad you're okay, dude. Over here the drama seems to always be poppin' as of late. If it's not CIG just dishing it out nonstop, it's self-important types imploding ITT. Gotta say, this thread continues to amaze. Streetroller posted:I feel like Théoden from Lord of the Rings, waking up from a dream and finding out it was really a nightmare. Welp, for that to happen it's about high time some actual petitioning and spreading the word on CIG's latest absolutely lovely TOS is shed light on. Probably the best way to start the avalanche to get any money back from them by this point. Personally, am so happy I got a full refund back in October/November when they were still doling them out when Derek Smart spooked them sufficiently.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:45
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h3isenbug posted:I wonder if at some point they will have the balls to admit that CryEngine 3 is outdated, has never been a good fit and that they broke it beyond repair. One goal was to get the most out of modern PC gaming hardware which is hardly possible with a CryEngine 3 based game anymore. They left scorched earth with CryTek, but now with CryEngine 5 being available with full source code and pretty much no strings attached maybe that would be an option? It probably wouldn't be a better fit for the game they are trying to make, but hey - the fidelity! Um obviously STARENGINE is more fidelitous than cryengine 5 because Chris only has the best and brightest working for him.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:50
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Samizdata posted:Well, you are still alive and well, so that's good. Happy about it too! After my last post I got an interview with a fascinating company. The team I work with are frighteningly competent so I've had to do an immense amount of learning fast. The nice part about all of it is that I'm busy from morning to night; not in the bad stressful way, but in the always interesting new task or research way. This weekend I'm fixing our ASA to allow Windows 10 users to use the native VPN client. Win 10 requires IKEv2 but with some interesting options (transport and translation) configured and enabled. Next week I roll out a test of our new SSO and then do a recable of our switches / patch panels to make things more manageable. Always something to do, I've been loving it. I see Peter's still around, so things are good here, it looks like.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:51
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Palisader posted:I read that as him saying that those were CIG's gently caress ups, that Derek didn't cause them. As in, CIG has no one to blame but themselves. I could be overly optimistic. It wasn't JUST Derek. Let's not encourage stolen Goon valor.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:52
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