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Kainser posted:Kemmler is so bad that it has to be some intentional troll from CA. I mean come on, who can possibly look at Mannfred and Kemmler and go "yes, this seems balanced"? In the end times they revealed that Kemmler was secretly a Chaos agent all along, so gently caress him.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:05
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His intro from the narrator even says as much.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:12
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I just see him as an extra difficulty mode for VC.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:17
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:I just see him as an extra difficulty mode for VC. For a good time limit yourself to only using Raise Dead for recruitment, eschewing military buildings (save for hero recruitment I guess). It's fun and feels very thematically appropriate.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:20
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Chomp8645 posted:After playing a decent bit of multiplayer yesterday I really feel like magic is in a bad place in that area. Most spells are useless, and the ones that are good are way to good. Death magic is the big offender but not the only one. Everyone knows about spirit leech and how it can turn most matches into a hero snipe duel. It's funny because before release several of us were posting about how spirit leech and fate of bjuna looked stupidly overpowered just point and click deleting high priced units with multiple casts per battle, but got told you can't tell the balance just from looking at videos of it.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:20
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This game really needs a "testing" setup for custom games where you can control both factions to test out various unit matchups and fighting strategies.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:22
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:It's funny because before release several of us were posting about how spirit leech and fate of bjuna looked stupidly overpowered just point and click deleting high priced units with multiple casts per battle, but got told you can't tell the balance just from looking at videos of it.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:27
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That Empire of Sigmar mod has balance issues, but otherwise its... well, perfect for that "hey why arent my INSERT TABLETOP UNIT included?" guys. Or at least it will be in the future probably.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:31
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Fate of Bjuna/Spirit Leech in the same tree as all the casting stuff is why vampires are so good. The fact that they get passive health regen in combat and flying mounts just makes them absurd.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:33
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Dandywalken posted:That Empire of Sigmar mod has balance issues, but otherwise its... well, perfect for that "hey why arent my INSERT TABLETOP UNIT included?" guys. Or at least it will be in the future probably. About the only balance issue I noted was stacking grenadier engineers. But if you're at the point where you can afford to have your entire ranged line be nothing but explosion generating death machines then I think you're pretty much in your victory lap or close to entering it. They're hands down the most expensive ranged infantry the empire can afford for a reason. I guess Bonegrinder Giants are a bit insane. But that's kind of what they are, canonically. A 15 story tall giant rolling up on you and just clobbering poo poo in an age of swords and crappy guns is going to have an edge, yeah. They can be taken down though. The trick is to avoid melee and hit them with single target magic and attacks. I had two units of repeaters just unload into them for a full minute while it rampaged through a unit of swordsmen while my witch hunter kept slinging accusations and silver bullets its way. Eventually all the bullet holes took their toll. Turns out obstruction between units isn't an issue when you're taller than a tower is! You can also kite them with ranged. Outriders finally have a use. Archonex fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jun 12, 2016 |
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Jun 12, 2016 20:34
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Ravenfood posted:People were also saying this about the various vortex spells though too, so. They actually did damage in the early pre-release footage, they just got nerfed to hell as mentioned earlier.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:36
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Dandywalken posted:That Empire of Sigmar mod has balance issues, but otherwise its... well, perfect for that "hey why arent my INSERT TABLETOP UNIT included?" guys. Or at least it will be in the future probably.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:36
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as chaos should i be subjugating the north or going for kislev first it seems like if i do the former then the first awakened city gets rolled by kislev immediately and if i go for kislev (even as little as "burn the border city to the ground and then immediately go back to the north") then the vikings get entrenched and it becomes extremely hard to deal with them e: this would be a much simpler decision if it weren't for that drat dwarf hold in between me and the rest of the north, dealing with them is a huge speedbump to conquering the north President Ark fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 12, 2016 |
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Jun 12, 2016 20:43
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To be perfectly fair, no one really knew anything about Fate of Bjuna until that Legend of Total War guy discovered it in his Vampire playthrough less than a week before release, and spirit leech took slightly longer to get figured out. It's not really a point of pride to "discover" a balance issue through a guy who did play the game making a video about it. And really out of the two Spirit Leech is worse. Fate of Bjuna's problem is less the fact that it can kill a couple units for a bunch of magic than how easy it makes it, and spirit leech is a problem because it enables brain dead hero sniping. madmac fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 12, 2016 |
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Jun 12, 2016 20:44
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Report: gimmick army of 6 organ guns, 7 thunderers, some warriors, plus an engineer comes up short vs Archaon's stack, close defeat. I thought the organs would do a lot more damage than they do, with shots punching through multiple enemies, but it appears not. Might have worked with cannons. Which is cool and all but dammit I want to have fancy high tier Dwarf artillery in my army.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:45
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It's very annoying when your faction leader picks up traits like "harsh" and "unjust". Faction-wide public order penalty in all provinces that you cannot remove unless you don't use your legendary lord. edit: Also, I just can't seem to get the hang of the economy with some races. Like for Empire - no one wants to trade, I end up winning every battle but still impoverished and barely able to field one stack for most of the game. terrorist ambulance fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jun 12, 2016 |
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Jun 12, 2016 20:46
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Zephro posted:Seems like it doesn't change the non-human factions much though, right? Orcs get some cool fill-ins with the Black Orcs with shields, Orc boys with spears etc. BO with Shields are a bit overpriced but that aside, it looks sweet. Also they get the Bonegrinder Giant, which is just a giant upscaled to gigantic giant proportions. Chaos gets some fill-in stuff too. Dwarves and Vamps dont seem to have any noticeable changes, but Bretonnians got some as well. Definitely a mod worth keeping an eye on IMO, because if the current stuff is any hint then the Dwarves and Vamps should probably be getting some very cool poo poo as well!
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Jun 12, 2016 20:46
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One balance issue I have with sigmar is the foot reiksguard. High armor like greatswords, and a shield. High melee attack and defense too. So your line gets pretty dang tough, which wrecks because not even giants can bust through your line so your ranged units get to shoot with impunity and cavalry get a lot more time to pick targets. Also, I have no idea what tech upgrades upgrade them. Footmen armor? Reiksguard armor? Both?
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Jun 12, 2016 20:56
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terrorist ambulance posted:It's very annoying when your faction leader picks up traits like "harsh" and "unjust". Faction-wide public order penalty in all provinces that you cannot remove unless you don't use your legendary lord. They might as well not even have traits. You have enough to keep track of with everyone's different skills, magic, and equipment without also worrying about some traits that you have no control over and are only ever seen on a stat page you barely have reason to visit.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:04
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Is there a hero/lord respec mod yet? Can't find one in the workshop but I feel kinda silly kitting Mannfred out for melee when I miss out on Bjuna/Years.terrorist ambulance posted:It's very annoying when your faction leader picks up traits like "harsh" and "unjust". Faction-wide public order penalty in all provinces that you cannot remove unless you don't use your legendary lord.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:08
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Chomp8645 posted:They might as well not even have traits. You have enough to keep track of with everyone's different skills, magic, and equipment without also worrying about some traits that you have no control over and are only ever seen on a stat page you barely have reason to visit. Pick up Prometheus Better Trait Triggers mod. It fixes this and adds a bunch of neat common sense stuff that causes you to get traits based on the behavior of your lords on the map and in combat instead of random bullshit. It's basically the kickass Medieval system of traits only much more balanced. Edit: Dang, beaten.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:10
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terrorist ambulance posted:It's very annoying when your faction leader picks up traits like "harsh" and "unjust". Faction-wide public order penalty in all provinces that you cannot remove unless you don't use your legendary lord. You think that's bad, in Atilla picking up the "harsh" trait was just the first inevitable step towards becoming a torture obsessed mass murderer. Of course in that game you could at least get your King killed and replaced with someone else, having permanent negative traits is pretty BS when you're stuck with them the entire game.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:15
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Been playing a new Greenskins campaign sorta in the style of the Chaos one. I took 4 settlements in the northern World's Edge mountains because I need them to unlock units and it seemed pretty defensible, but aside from a tiny force and my vassalized vampire counts guarding the western entrances, I've ignored all that stuff and have been wandering the world with Grimgor and his boyz (plus another warboss), pillaging my way across the world against basically every faction. Sacking is my only real form of income at all and I've gotta say, it's way tougher with Greenskins than Chaos. Chaos are probably the best at taking walls which you do a ton of, they can recruit units on the fly much more easily, and most importantly, their unit upkeep is utterly trivial. Sacking a city for 30k will keep you going a long time. Their best units cost me like 80-120 upkeep, and those units are generally -much- better than their Orcish counterparts who are going for 190-470. I was swimming in cash with Sigvald and friends, but now I'm mainly using discount troops and am constantly worried about finding the next big sacking target asap keep myself from going bankrupt. It's been pretty rough, but it's also been interesting.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:24
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Shumagorath posted:Has the Black Coach been tested for whether or not its gimmick works? I can finally build one after shuffling everything around in Eastern Sylvania but I don't know if it's worth it. It's junk just like the boar chariot
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Jun 12, 2016 21:28
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Chariots tend to be awful in total war games, unless you can constantly keep them moving in which case they will murder everything, if they ever get bogged down in the infantry blob or unmovable horses they are as good as dead.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:34
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Autoresolve in this game doesn't take difficulty mode into consideration so if you're playing on legendary or even very hard the fights are almost guaranteed to be harder than the autoresolve odds. In previous games there would be a modifier for difficulty--tens of percentage points odds and an artificial increase to numbers--but for whatever reason they left it out this time around. If you manually fight the battles all enemy units on very hard get a 12% buff to all stats and a straight increase to leadership while the player's leadership is lowered. On legendary we don't have the numbers but they'd almost certainly be higher. This is especially, especially the case for greenskins and some of the VC units, sometimes even on normal since autoresolve is very kind to low leadership units as something like 45 rounds of simulated combat occur before it even allows simulated routing. Dwarves and Chaos are in general absurdly strong on legendary since % increases do a lot to their already high stats. And even in the hands of the player I'd say they're the easier legendary campaigns due to their already high stat units. Greenskins is likely the hardest legendary followed by Empire if you're actually fighting the battles. Kholek being able to hit the 90% ward save cap makes for hilarious gameplay too.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:45
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Chariots tend to be awful in total war games, unless you can constantly keep them moving in which case they will murder everything, if they ever get bogged down in the infantry blob or unmovable horses they are as good as dead. Yeah, I've been using a boar chariot lately and if you can micro it properly it's basically the best and most cost-effective unit in the entire game. You can mow down an infinite number of heavy infantry without taking damage, and you do it very quickly. But the amount of attention required is absurd and it's easy to gently caress up. I bet they're cool in a co-op campaign. Just give control of a chariot to your partner. It's the only unit they'll need.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:45
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Chariots tend to be awful in total war games, unless you can constantly keep them moving in which case they will murder everything, if they ever get bogged down in the infantry blob or unmovable horses they are as good as dead. Looks like they made some changes to how units mass interact with others, probably to adjust for the huge monster units, that really hurt chariots. In Rome 2 you could cruise your scythe chariots through very heavy infantry and as long you spammed move commands it wouldn't get bogged into the unit. Now chariots get stuck no matter what commands you are given them, only large monster (trolls, crypt horrors, ect.) seem to be able to shove past infantry units reliably. Chariots can blast units over on the charge just like cavalry can but they have to escape during that little window when most units are knocked down. So if they are only useful to cycle charge, why not just use cavalry who can do just the same thing but are more versatile? Rome 2 chariots were most effective when you could drag the chariot through a huge line of infantry, but in warhammer it appears flipped - they are most effective just charging in and out. Vargs posted:Yeah, I've been using a boar chariot lately and if you can micro it properly it's basically the best and most cost-effective unit in the entire game. You can mow down an infinite number of heavy infantry without taking damage, and you do it very quickly. But the amount of attention required is absurd and it's easy to gently caress up. Interesting, what are you finding the chariot does better than cavalry? edit: oh yall are talking about single player Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jun 12, 2016 |
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Jun 12, 2016 21:48
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Captain Beans posted:Interesting, what are you finding the chariot does better than cavalry? Chariots are basically just glass cannon cavalry given steroids. They mulch infantry blobs way better than the same weight in cav and basically won't take any return damage if they don't get bogged down. But if they get caught by spears/halberds or stuck in a dense mass that prevents movement they will just flop over and die on the spot. They also scale tremendously with the amount of micro applied to them. This makes them awesome for level 1 lord armies, not worth their cost in well developed armies, and basically unusable in multiplayer.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:54
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Yeah, the biggest problem with the Black Coach is that it's the last unit unlocked for VC, by the point it's even an option I am so over the idea of deploying a chariot ever.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:02
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Everything you could possibly use a black coach for you can use a terrorgheist for.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:07
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I tried a couple of boar chariots and they're so slow they were run down by a troll They also got stuck in a black orc pile and no amount of click spamming would get them out I won the battle but immediately disbanded the units
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Jun 12, 2016 22:16
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I'm unimpressed by boar units in general. Yeah they have a decent shock when they hit the lines. But they are slow as poo poo and aren't even that good in melee once the charge is over. In multiplayer I don't find them worth the gold. In campaign lol if you think I'm prioritizing that building before I have literally everything else. Wolf Riders on the other hand are loving boss as hell for something that only costs 300g.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:19
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Archonex posted:So what interesting mods are people using? My current mod list: Better AI Recruitment and Army Composition - Cuts down on poo poo like greenskin archer/norscan skirmisher cav/chaos artillery spam. No march stance/No unreachable armies - March stance has always just been kinda dumb. Better Combat Camera - Up Close and Personal! - Just lets you zoom in more. Now it's 10x easier to see my potato settings textures. Better Autoresolve - My monsters and heroes don't get annihilated by autoresolve anymore, so I'm pretty happy with this one. Build more siege engines - Siege towers take way too long to build by default. It's a little faster with this mod. No Agressive Agent (easy ver.) - Always felt that AI agents were an annoying mechanic. Night Gobbo Expansion - Adds a few extra Night Goblin units. I think goblins are useless in the regular campaign, but this gives you some night gobbos that are still fairly weak, but won't break the instant anything looks at them. I think they're pretty okay if you spread em throughout your regular orc line to inflict as much poison as possible. More Custom Battle Generals - Lets you use anything as a general in custom battles. Good for testing stuff, like how bad trolls are compared to all other monsters. Global Building Bonus - Makes special regional buildings apply globally, but nerfs them. I like it better this way. MEN OF THE EMPIRE - Empire Unit Reskin - Gives empire troops poofier clothing and more armor (visual only). I think they look neat.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:24
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Chariots tend to be awful in total war games, unless you can constantly keep them moving in which case they will murder everything, if they ever get bogged down in the infantry blob or unmovable horses they are as good as dead. that's pretty much how they are in the tabletop warhammer, where they either break the target in one turn with the bonus from impact damage or get owned horribly
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Jun 12, 2016 23:04
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Vargs posted:Been playing a new Greenskins campaign sorta in the style of the Chaos one. I took 4 settlements in the northern World's Edge mountains because I need them to unlock units and it seemed pretty defensible, but aside from a tiny force and my vassalized vampire counts guarding the western entrances, I've ignored all that stuff and have been wandering the world with Grimgor and his boyz (plus another warboss), pillaging my way across the world against basically every faction. For some reason, this post makes me eager for the elves so I can retrace Grom the Paunch's footsteps.
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Jun 12, 2016 23:13
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Vargs posted:My current mod list: I want to congratulate you for using literally the same mods as me! These two however i haven't tried because i'm honestly not convinced how it will positively affect the campaign. Better Ai Recruitment and No forced march were the two most important mods on Rome 2 and Attila because they gave the AI dead 'ard armies and since they didn't blitz everywhere they actually travelled in groups and at a steady, sustainable rate. Is this also working as intented in warhams? I'm afraid of turning chaos and orcs into pushovers with this mod.
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Jun 12, 2016 23:15
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re magic chat I am one of the idiots that took forever to understand you had to double click spells in battle to get the upgraded version and that some upgraded version turn single buffs into 30m aoes. re mod chat I swap between using radious poo poo and the bretonia stuff. Radious has been introducing a good number of units for greenskins and orks, and once those are done will move on to others. He has some empire and vampire units in there too already from his friends. He is also rebalancing magic right now. This mod, global building bonus, is probably my favorite http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=698034186 Takes those regional +1 exp buildings I tend to ignore and makes them global. Or +happiness and -corruption ones.
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Jun 12, 2016 23:16
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also i finally got that wyvern thing for azhag and i thought it was deathclaw so i threw him head first into a savage boyz unit (even threw that cool blackhole spell first and all) and the dude got stuck in, his health melted and instead of flying off he just tried crawling away, forgetting his pet had wings. i started off with azhag and i've kind of worked around all his kinks because i assumed a death magic dragon riding orc was rad as hell but i'm kind of disappointed. Grimgor on the other hand  i maxed out his entire personal combat tree and he takes on entire armies by himself. That's a proper lad.
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Jun 12, 2016 23:17
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grimgor too good and most mounts that fly for mages are for position not combat
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Jun 12, 2016 23:23
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