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defectivemonkey posted:That doesn't make it less gross to actively engage in it. I might be out on a limb here but I think its actually very important to politicize these tragedies so that we might be able to actually debate about how to prevent them (granted this assumes both sides are arguing in good faith). Treating them as outside politics makes it seem like there is no solution to the problem because we can't even talk about it from a political angle.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:45
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:The only thing that matters to a mass shooter is whatever logical framework he is using when pulling the trigger. The media is definitely exists somewhere in it, especially since they lionize these shooters every time they show up. Oh yeah, totally forgot the Media's massive erection for sensationalizing violence.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:47
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Pellisworth posted:I doubt it, Trump yelling "I told you so" and doubling down on bigotry and the Muslim ban isn't going to convince anyone who wasn't already going to vote for him no matter what. We have been trying to address homophobia and gun control for loving decades. It's not that we aren't addressing the issues its that no one is loving listening or doesn't care. That's the core of this whole loving thing: no one loving cares.I'm so loving depressed about all of it.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:49
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The shooter's dad thinks he's the President of Afghanistan and hosted a TV show where he supported the Taliban. But he has no idea what might have motivated his son. 
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Jun 12, 2016 21:49
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Fojar38 posted:Well, for most of the primary everyone was saying "Trump could win the general if there was a major terrorist attack" so I guess we'll see how much truth there is to that. It was a targeted attack against the LGBT community though so that muddles things up quite a bit. No one who is the least bit sympathetic to the LBGT community is going to see this despicable terrorist hate crime and then go support the party that directly encourages discrimination and violent rhetoric against the LGBT community.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:49
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MC Nietzche posted:I might be out on a limb here but I think its actually very important to politicize these tragedies so that we might be able to actually debate about how to prevent them (granted this assumes both sides are arguing in good faith). Treating them as outside politics makes it seem like there is no solution to the problem because we can't even talk about it from a political angle. Rahm Emanuel was right about not letting a crisis go to waste. Unfortunately Americans don't actually give a poo poo about mass shootings beyond being sad sad sad for a few hours, so we'll never get any meaningful gun reform.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:49
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It was a targeted attack against the LGBT community though so that muddles things up quite a bit. No one who is the least bit sympathetic to the LBGT community is going to see this despicable terrorist hate crime and then go support the party that directly encourages discrimination and violent rhetoric against the LGBT community. What about Log Cabin Republicans?
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Jun 12, 2016 21:50
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ComradeCosmobot posted:What about Log Cabin Republicans? Log Cabin Republicans are the pinnacle of FYGM.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:51
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MC Nietzche posted:I might be out on a limb here but I think its actually very important to politicize these tragedies so that we might be able to actually debate about how to prevent them (granted this assumes both sides are arguing in good faith). Treating them as outside politics makes it seem like there is no solution to the problem because we can't even talk about it from a political angle. Oh sure, but there is a wide gap between the appropriate policy discussions and musing about poll numbers. The former isn't politicizing (except if you're on the side that would rather not have those discussions), it's reacting.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:52
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Sinteres posted:Rahm Emanuel was right about not letting a crisis go to waste. Unfortunately Americans don't actually give a poo poo about mass shootings beyond being sad sad sad for a few hours, so we'll never get any meaningful gun reform. We'll never get any meaningful gun reform because both sides in the legislature are fully incapable of : a. Compromise b. Writing legislation that doesn't include gratuitous 'gently caress YOU' sections directed at their opposites. c. Paying attention to the issue as more than lip service for 72 hours.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:53
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Liquid Communism posted:We'll never get any meaningful gun reform because both sides in the legislature are fully incapable of : d. Massive involvement of money, donations, lobbyists.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:54
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defectivemonkey posted:Oh sure, but there is a wide gap between the appropriate policy discussions and musing about poll numbers. The former isn't politicizing (except if you're on the side that would rather not have those discussions), it's reacting. Fair, but I think that a part of politicizing is also musing about how these events might affect your ability to get elected. Grassroots/political pressure are a thing but its still difficult to enact an agenda if you lose an election. Then again musing about poll numbers is what loving morons do right now because all this poo poo is going into the memory hole in 2 weeks. I mean the right wing media did their best to tie Obama to both Paris and Brussels and his approval numbers have never been higher.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:55
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ISIS was organized enough to circumvent France's gun laws, what makes you think a straight AWB would stop them on US soil? I think the heads of our intelligence agencies should be losing their jobs right about now, though.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:55
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:I don't think you have to be all that political to mow down a bunch of people. The media is just looking for reasons that simply aren't there. Otherwise everyone is a killer instead of "oh hey this guy was crazy that explains it". I think you have to have some fukkin opinions to mow down a bunch of gay people during pride, probably.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:56
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Joementum posted:The shooter's dad thinks he's the President of Afghanistan and hosted a TV show where he supported the Taliban. Yeah, there might be a mental health component here after all, because dad seems to be genuinely nuts.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:57
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ComradeCosmobot posted:What about Log Cabin Republicans? I honestly thought they no longer existed because they all got forced out by the Tea Party wave?
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Jun 12, 2016 21:57
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lol gun laws, that's a battle for next generation right now we should be kicking fundamentalist religion while it's down thanks to it suddenly having greatly diminished influence in the last political coalition that would give it the time of day, not arguing about guns
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Jun 12, 2016 21:59
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:ISIS was organized enough to circumvent France's gun laws, what makes you think a straight AWB would stop them on US soil? This wasn't planned or coordinated by ISIS or another external terrorist group, or at least there's no evidence yet to suggest that. ISIS carrying out attacks on US soil is one thing, the string of domestic mass shootings by American citizens legally obtaining guns is another. Edit: the factors causing and enabling all this violence are part of American society. ISIS is just a convenient scapegoat. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jun 12, 2016 |
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Jun 12, 2016 22:00
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I think you have to have some fukkin opinions to mow down a bunch of gay people during pride, probably. Hating or dehumanizing a group of people is as much of a political view as it is a logical fallacy. And it's frequently practiced by pretty much all Americans except on a level where it is culturally appropriate.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:00
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:ISIS was organized enough to circumvent France's gun laws, what makes you think a straight AWB would stop them on US soil? Over what? Are we actually at this point supposed to be tracking all Muslims in this country now? Where even if they're not directly involved in a terrorist conspiracy, we should be ready to swoop in and arrest them on suspicion if they buy a big gun?
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Jun 12, 2016 22:01
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Eschers Basement posted:Over what? Are we actually at this point supposed to be tracking all Muslims in this country now? Where even if they're not directly involved in a terrorist conspiracy, we should be ready to swoop in and arrest them on suspicion if they buy a big gun? We should be tracking less people- not more. The problem, as Snowden described it, is that when you expand your scope of surveillance big enough you lose sight of the forest because of all the trees.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:03
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Fox Ironic posted:Goddamn people, it's loving intersectional. Nothing exists in a vacuum. It's simultaneously: I just want to say that this is a great post and I agree completely. It's frustrating to see people (basically everyone of all political stripes, even those of my own) latching onto their favorite and completely ignoring/dismissing the others as irrelevant. If you lose scope of the whole picture, you inaccurately assess the situation and you're no closer to finding a solution.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:03
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I'm expecting a couple states putting in more sensitivity classes in their curriculum, and that being the only change from this. Less than the church shooting that got Confederate flags taken down, more than kindergartners that got massacred at Sandy Hook got. Great poo poo.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:04
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Hating or dehumanizing a group of people is as much of a political view as it is a logical fallacy. And it's frequently practiced by pretty much all Americans except on a level where it is culturally appropriate. do you just say poo poo you think is smart or what
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Jun 12, 2016 22:09
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Popular Thug Drink posted:the real threat to society are the deranged, violent, despicable men and if we were truly willing to do something about this problem we would destroy masculinity and replace it with progressive western values How do you do that?
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Jun 12, 2016 22:10
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:We should be tracking less people- not more. The problem, as Snowden described it, is that when you expand your scope of surveillance big enough you lose sight of the forest because of all the trees. How would that have helped prevent this situation? The problem isn't "more" or "fewer", the problem is that this wasn't a guy who showed any sort of indicators in any way that our intelligence agencies have the legal/constitutional ability to track, because it's really goddamned hard to pinpoint "guy who decides to legally buy a gun and then go kill people" as opposed to "network of people conspiring to cause massive damage through detonation of controlled substances". If you disagree, please, please, tell me what you think the FBI should have done differently over the last five years that would have landed this guy under an investigation.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:10
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Pellisworth posted:This wasn't planned or coordinated by ISIS or another external terrorist group, or at least there's no evidence yet to suggest that. All mass shooters are a convenient scapegoat. And mass shooting laws need to have their own special category since gun laws in general have had little effect on them. Eschers Basement posted:How would that have helped prevent this situation? The problem isn't "more" or "fewer", the problem is that this wasn't a guy who showed any sort of indicators in any way that our intelligence agencies have the legal/constitutional ability to track, because it's really goddamned hard to pinpoint "guy who decides to legally buy a gun and then go kill people" as opposed to "network of people conspiring to cause massive damage through detonation of controlled substances". The FBI already had him flagged.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:10
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Well let's see, could be that the washed up not-cop who apparently likes to hit women and poo poo like that already and I guess had a real bad reaction to seeing men kiss probably killed a bunch of gay people during Pride in a major gay hotspot because he's just a piece of poo poo garbage person. cheese eats mouse posted:It's going to be (has) turned into a platform for Muslim bashing when the guy was just an rear end in a top hat. botany posted:homophobic straight man murders gay people; country freaks out about islam A violent and mentally-unstable homophobe and misogynist was drawn to a homophobic misogynistic religion and declared allegiance to its radical form. This clearly has absolutely nothing to do with our pet religion. I recommend y'all try going over the last dozen pages or so, while mentally replacing "radical Islam" or functional equivalents with "neo-Nazism" or similar ideologies (choose your own flavor!) and see how disturbing some of these defenses become. I'll start you off with one! "It is bigotry to point out the bigotry of neo-Nazism."
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Jun 12, 2016 22:12
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Islam: basically nazis
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Jun 12, 2016 22:13
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(you're the one who added 'radical' to that poo poo, everyone else was talking about Islam the concept)
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Jun 12, 2016 22:14
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Eschers Basement posted:How would that have helped prevent this situation? The problem isn't "more" or "fewer", the problem is that this wasn't a guy who showed any sort of indicators in any way that our intelligence agencies have the legal/constitutional ability to track, because it's really goddamned hard to pinpoint "guy who decides to legally buy a gun and then go kill people" as opposed to "network of people conspiring to cause massive damage through detonation of controlled substances". Dude, the FBI was literally investigating this guy. Someone dropped the ball big time.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:14
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Brannock posted:A violent and mentally-unstable homophobe and misogynist was drawn to a homophobic misogynistic religion and declared allegiance to its radical form. This clearly has absolutely nothing to do with our pet religion. What's your point?
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Jun 12, 2016 22:15
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Eschers Basement posted:as opposed to "network of people conspiring to cause massive damage through detonation of controlled substances". What is the NRA, Alex?
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Jun 12, 2016 22:16
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Doesn't the Daesh have a policy where you can just give them credit for your terrorisms and you don't have to ever talk to them, just totally just say "This one's for ISIS" and they'll be glad to be like "Oh yeah, that dude was a legit soldier, what a hero"?
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Jun 12, 2016 22:17
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would love to hear solutions from all the "islam BAD" goons that don't violate the rights, civil or otherwise, of US citizen muslims 
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Jun 12, 2016 22:18
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RuanGacho posted:What is the NRA, Alex? A moneymaking scheme that preys on the old and paranoid rich white people? I mean, that doesn't really fit your narrative, but it's what they do.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:18
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Nessus posted:Doesn't the Daesh have a policy where you can just give them credit for your terrorisms and you don't have to ever talk to them, just totally just say "This one's for ISIS" and they'll be glad to be like "Oh yeah, that dude was a legit soldier, what a hero"? Literally yes.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:18
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Nessus posted:Doesn't the Daesh have a policy where you can just give them credit for your terrorisms and you don't have to ever talk to them, just totally just say "This one's for ISIS" and they'll be glad to be like "Oh yeah, that dude was a legit soldier, what a hero"? yes, they actively encourage this behavior
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Jun 12, 2016 22:19
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Nessus posted:Doesn't the Daesh have a policy where you can just give them credit for your terrorisms and you don't have to ever talk to them, just totally just say "This one's for ISIS" and they'll be glad to be like "Oh yeah, that dude was a legit soldier, what a hero"? that is their literal policy, it's almost as if this is one giant PR campaign or something
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Jun 12, 2016 22:19
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Liquid Communism posted:A moneymaking scheme that preys on the old and paranoid rich white people? My relatively non-sequitur joke was intended to imply that there is a terrorist network active in the US which advocates for the destruction and death of Americans, through the peddling of their primary product.
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Jun 12, 2016 22:20
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