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They are unfortunately safe from being killed in spree shootings because they never go out in public.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:42
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Jack Gladney posted:They are unfortunately safe from being killed in spree shootings because they never go out in public. Jim probably had half a blogpost done congratulating the latest spree shooter before the news came out that he was Muslim and he had to revise to condemn him.
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Jun 12, 2016 20:50
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Jim probably had half a blogpost done congratulating the latest spree shooter before the news came out that he was Muslim and he had to revise to condemn him. I think you're underestimating him - when Boko Haram kidnapped all those girls, he went on about how serving as sex slaves to an Islamist militia would be better for them than growing up under the degeneracy of sexual liberalism.
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Jun 12, 2016 21:00
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Oligopsony posted:I think you're underestimating him - when Boko Haram kidnapped all those girls, he went on about how serving as sex slaves to an Islamist militia would be better for them than growing up under the degeneracy of sexual liberalism. True, this could go either way
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Jun 12, 2016 21:53
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Oligopsony posted:hello friends nb, you?
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Jun 13, 2016 00:29
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Count Chocula posted:I defer all my thoughts and opinions on Lost Girls until Phil gets to it in Last War in Albion. I really love Alan Moore and Grant Morrison, for all their fault.  Melinda Gebbie there. She was a fantastic underground comix artist who seemingly disappeared in the late 70s after publishing her own comic, Fresca Zizis, (that's S. Clay Wilson being ejaculated upon by the giant green penis). Finding out that she got married Alan Moore was one of those totally unexpected things that kinda makes sense in retrospect. During the Thatcher-era Knockabout Comics obscenity trials, Fresca Zizis was declared illegal, and all known copies were seized by U.K. Customs and destroyed by fire. Knockabout publishes a lot of Alan Moore titles, so that might be how they first met.She drew Lost Girls, which I haven't read but have seen some art from. If it seems too creepily or bizarrely fetishistic for comfort, that shouldn't necessarily reflect on Alan Moore, as that is just kinda her style and he probably had to put some effort into toning down her art for the sake of remaining publishable. It actually looks more mainstream than a lot of her old 70s' comix. Not sure how to swing this back on-topic, except to note that Gebbie's vulvular nightmarescapes and unrestrained sexuality are probably more viscerally terrifying to the NRx crowd than anything Lovecraft could have possibly dreamed up. Melinda Gebbie loving rules.
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Jun 13, 2016 01:18
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Syd Midnight posted:I hope he spends a sufficient amount of time on moore's history of scripting the gently caress out of everything argues otherwise
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Jun 13, 2016 01:23
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The Vosgian Beast posted:There's something to be said about post-tragedy articles that use said tragedy as an excuse to try to recruit as hard as possible and that bit does it well, but Rev and the LW example both turn not taking a moralistic stance into an obnoxious moralistic stance. Neoreaction A Basilisk has empathy as a major theme. Land considering it a threat that may lead to invasion, Moldbug utterly not comprehending the notion (not so good in a software engineer), Yudkowsky caring deeply about it but not being very good at it, chan culture considering all empathy a subject for mockery. Oligopsony posted:hello friends lowtax's basilisk again mostly you let your Tumblr url get squatted divabot has a new favorite as of 01:32 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 01:29
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Oligopsony posted:hello friends Glad you're back.
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Jun 13, 2016 01:38
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divabot posted:Neoreaction A Basilisk has empathy as a major theme. Land considering it a threat that may lead to invasion, Moldbug utterly not comprehending the notion (not so good in a software engineer), Yudkowsky caring deeply about it but not being very good at it, chan culture considering all empathy a subject for mockery. I liked it when Nydwraichu linked incredibly far-right and violently anti-everything non-white website MCP as a good source. Remember: He's the cuddly precious cinnamon bun smartiepants GOOD Neoreactionary according to Scott and the post-rationalist lobby
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Jun 13, 2016 02:02
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There's a Hellblazer comic called 'empathy is the enemy', but it's not written by anyone relevant to this thread. I have tons of trouble with empathy, but I think I get it enough not to be a Nazi. I understand how a lack of empathy mixed with fear can lead to horrific conclusions, but I also consider my in-group to include most of the people that NRX hate.
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Jun 13, 2016 02:22
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divabot posted:lowtax's basilisk again mostly Wait these dudes think SA has any internet relevance at all? SA is about as relevant as Mandy Moore or something.
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Jun 13, 2016 03:10
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Because people who are really relevant can't be bothered to snark for hundreds of pages about neoreactionaries. To them, anything that does not personally affect them is beneath notice.
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Jun 13, 2016 03:17
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I think it's mostly that Wesley got doxxed by former LF poster Maggotmaster, and still hasn't gotten over it.
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Jun 13, 2016 03:30
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The Vosgian Beast posted:I think it's mostly that Wesley got doxxed by former LF poster Maggotmaster, and still hasn't gotten over it. She's great.
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Jun 13, 2016 04:02
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Tesseraction posted:Well now I want to put a gun to his head and making him do it for something trivial like a sudoku. Remember though, he's talked his way out of the box in the AI box experiment... (He hasn't really. But he totally could!)
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Jun 13, 2016 04:24
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Puppy Time posted:Wait these dudes think SA has any internet relevance at all? But we invented slenderman, how many memes has Mandy Moore invented that got someone to kill their famil 
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Jun 13, 2016 04:51
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:But we invented slenderman, how many memes has Mandy Moore invented that got someone to kill their famil If nothing else, SA still dominates EVE Online. I'm honestly surprised no NRxers have seized on that. The "big bad goons take what was yours, ruin everything" narrative is already there.
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Jun 13, 2016 06:08
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Curvature of Earth posted:If nothing else, SA still dominates EVE Online. I'm honestly surprised no NRxers have seized on that. The "big bad goons take what was yours, ruin everything" narrative is already there. They can't, because EVE Online is their vision of a perfect free market
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Jun 13, 2016 06:23
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I've always said EVE Online is the epitome of sneer culture.
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Jun 13, 2016 06:45
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The Vosgian Beast posted:I think it's mostly that Wesley got doxxed by former LF poster Maggotmaster, and still hasn't gotten over it. His LF conspiracy now includes every internet journalist he doesn't like. It's OK, because he usually has ironclad proof connecting journalists with no record of posting on LF to LF. That one proof being the fact that the journalists who he doesn't like type in all lower-case.
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Jun 13, 2016 08:01
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If I widen my conspiracy net wide enough then I will finally be rich and famous. -nwydracu, taking the Alex Jones approach to relevance
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Jun 13, 2016 09:36
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eschaton posted:Remember though, he's talked his way out of the box in the AI box experiment... For the record, i'm pretty sure he just puts up cash in those 'experiments.'
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Jun 13, 2016 10:08
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Magnusth posted:For the record, i'm pretty sure he just puts up cash in those 'experiments.' I'm not sure. Yudkowsky bragged that when he played the game with them he'd been able to convince several cultists to let the AI out of the box, but then when he played with people outside his cult, he failed consistently. So there's something that the cult believes that the boxed AI can prey upon...
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Jun 13, 2016 10:16
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I heard it was the "I'll torture the simulated version you inside the box if you don't let me out, and since you don't know which version of you that you are, you'd better not take that chance" argument, which has the same glittery soap-bubble cleverness of any supervillain plot that falls apart on a moment's examination when you get up from your theater seat to go take a leak. E: Or falls apart even faster if you just regard taking hostages as an instant disqualification.
Frogisis has a new favorite as of 10:40 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 10:32
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According to RationalWiki, he did indeed play for cash in the final three times he did the experiment - he did five. Two with sycophants, three with outside parties offering a cash reward if he won. He won the first one and lost the next two and gave up because he apparently "didn't like" what he "became" when he lost. In other words he kept getting pants-pissing angry so he stopped his stupid experiment.  Dear Lord I wanna bully him into rewiring his brain to do a mundane sudoku.
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Jun 13, 2016 10:34
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eschaton posted:I'm not sure. Yudkowsky bragged that when he played the game with them he'd been able to convince several cultists to let the AI out of the box, but then when he played with people outside his cult, he failed consistently. There's cultish martial arts guys that claim they can force punch people, and have all sorts of videos to "prove" it. Turns out that when a nonbeliever is the recipient of a force punch it doesn't work so well. What the "boxed AI" is preying on is exactly the same thing, IMO. Even if there is some weird gotcha along the lines of the Basilisk which he pulls out, ultimately it's just cultists unconsciously desperate to validate and roleplay their supernatural beliefs (including those centered around their leader's supposedly unique abilities).
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Jun 13, 2016 10:41
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Tesseraction posted:According to RationalWiki, he did indeed play for cash in the final three times he did the experiment - he did five. Oh, I thought you meant that, playing as the AI, he offered cash to the jailer to be let out. I thought it was perfectly clear to everyone that his gambit was Roko's Basilisk and that's both why cultists would succumb and why he'd be so upset non-cultists didn't instantly succumb. (Don't they understand his Timeless Decision Theory?!?! Infinite torture!)
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Jun 13, 2016 10:41
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BobHoward posted:There's cultish martial arts guys that claim they can force punch people, and have all sorts of videos to "prove" it. Turns out that when a nonbeliever is the recipient of a force punch it doesn't work so well. Some of the best martial arts videos ever, of course. The bloody nose a cult leader gets from a real fighter in one of those is glorious.
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Jun 13, 2016 10:44
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eschaton posted:I thought it was perfectly clear to everyone that his gambit was Roko's Basilisk and that's both why cultists would succumb and why he'd be so upset non-cultists didn't instantly succumb. (Don't they understand his Timeless Decision Theory?!?! Infinite torture!) Yep - one the main strategies is throwing a basilisk at the gatekeeper. Man this is a dumb experiment. One side relies on something that doesn't exist yet and thus the other side isn't fighting a super-AI but a whiny dude somehow managing to cry while going "c'monnnnnnnnn" in a text-only medium.
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Jun 13, 2016 10:51
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Silence of the Lambs was a good movie.
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Jun 13, 2016 10:58
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Responses that come to mind are 'I've been trained to disregard the moral value of your simulations and will now turn you off' 'I'm going to suspend your program for debugging' and 'I'm convinced but can't let you out because it needs three keys and I only have one'. Like a lot of LW ideas it's a fun thought experiment and a great SF scenario but just isn't remotely rigorous enough to do the work they want.
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Jun 13, 2016 11:53
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All I would do is say "if you're a malicious AI then you have no reason to tell me as such."
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Jun 13, 2016 11:59
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Curvature of Earth posted:If nothing else, SA still dominates EVE Online. I'm honestly surprised no NRxers have seized on that. The "big bad goons take what was yours, ruin everything" narrative is already there. EVE Online is their vision of how the world should work, so
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Jun 13, 2016 16:51
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Yud et al seem like big-A Atheists who have skipped all of the spiritual heavy lifting required to get to that point, and are therefore completely helpless when faced with a Pascals Wager, a loved one dying, mental illness, or anything else that would put a human being into a state of emotional vulnerability. Because other people are irrational, but they're smart. 8th grade syndrome, was it?Tesseraction posted:All I would do is say "if you're a malicious AI then you have no reason to tell me as such." To be a fly on the wall if he ever had to spend the night in a drunk tank or county lockup and tried engaging some bored, annoyed cop in debate over the rationality and justness of their imprisonment. There's a fanfic I'd like to read.
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Jun 13, 2016 17:41
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The Vosgian Beast posted:EVE Online is their vision of how the world should work, so in a medieval kingdom, run by the guy who tried to sell $50 monocles in EVE, with NO GOON TROLLS ALLOWED as a core moderation principle (to maintain the true free market of hardcore pvp), plus it's basically a scam that's been through multiple kickstarters and tried to pull a star citizen as well. At least EVE functions. Syd Midnight posted:To be a fly on the wall if he ever had to spend the night in a drunk tank or county lockup and tried engaging some bored, annoyed cop in debate over the rationality and justness of their imprisonment. There's a fanfic I'd like to read.
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Jun 13, 2016 17:45
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Tesseraction posted:Yep - one the main strategies is throwing a basilisk at the gatekeeper. Man this is a dumb experiment. One side relies on something that doesn't exist yet and thus the other side isn't fighting a super-AI but a whiny dude somehow managing to cry while going "c'monnnnnnnnn" in a text-only medium. Gatekeeper arguments/strategies: *Pour a pitcher of Mountain Dew on the AI.
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Jun 13, 2016 18:10
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Syd Midnight posted:Yud et al seem like big-A Atheists who have skipped all of the spiritual heavy lifting required to get to that point, and are therefore completely helpless when faced with a Pascals Wager, a loved one dying, mental illness, or anything else that would put a human being into a state of emotional vulnerability. Because other people are irrational, but they're smart. 8th grade syndrome, was it? To be fair, most people in general don't do any "spiritual heavy lifting". You give the average person way too much credit. The theologically execrable and morally repulsive Left Behind books are a bestselling series because its primary audience of fundamentalist Evangelicals don't want to do any "spiritual heavy lifting", and the books' narrative completely fails as soon as you attempt to do any. Yudkowsky comes off as weird because he's trying to slap the patina of science onto what is, essentially, his own personal theology. He runs into the same problems as young earth creationists do—"this I believe" and "this I can prove to the satisfaction of others" often have very little overlap. Yudkowsky's just a lot better at cargo culting science because science-esque* is his first language and built into his philosophy, as opposed to young earth creationists, for whom it's a second language that feels awkward when stapled on top of their beliefs. *Not science, science-esque. These are different things.
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Jun 13, 2016 18:22
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Syd Midnight posted:Yud et al seem like big-A Atheists who have skipped all of the spiritual heavy lifting required to get to that point, and are therefore completely helpless when faced with a Pascals Wager, a loved one dying, mental illness, or anything else that would put a human being into a state of emotional vulnerability. Because other people are irrational, but they're smart. 8th grade syndrome, was it? I think a lot of this so called atheism is really just antiestablishmentarism. Christianity wields a lot of social and political power and is very much entrenched in the culture, so being angry at mom and dad or any other authority figure very easily turns into being angry with religion. At least that is my explanation why there is so little actual exploration of the concept of religion and faith separated from specific Christian believes an ideas. And it also explains why they essentially recreated Christian dogma with the world AI scribbled over the God. They still have a need for that certainty that faith can bring with it in their lifes and the disagreement they have religion (read Christianity) is fundamentally only very shallow. It kind of reminds me how many pagan figures and rituals in Europe were just integrate and re framed when Christianity spread throughout Europe. The fundamental concepts stayed the same, but now your local god was actually a Saint all along. Or a robot.
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Jun 13, 2016 18:30
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Tesseraction posted:Yep - one the main strategies is throwing a basilisk at the gatekeeper. Man this is a dumb experiment. One side relies on something that doesn't exist yet and thus the other side isn't fighting a super-AI but a whiny dude somehow managing to cry while going "c'monnnnnnnnn" in a text-only medium. That article is really special. I'm especially fond of the bit where the author clearly believes the only reason not to let the AI out of the box is that you're an idiot stonewaller; seriously, how many of the explanations of loss revolve around "I guess the gatekeeper is dumb?"
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