Ask Us About Military History: Remove Balls To Fire Blanks

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Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Ataxerxes posted:

Well, that is not a simple matter. The Finnish cavalry of the Swedish forces was kinda badly equipped, notoriously lacking in the pistol department especially. The were, to my understanding, rather prone to charging due to this, at least in part. The thing is that the slogan that gives them their name "Hakkaa p��lle!" (means pretty much "at 'em!" or "hack 'em down!") is a really decent warcry on its own, easy to chant and sounds rather badass in Finnish. Did the Swedes have Finnish-speaking cavalry troopers shouting that at the charge? That's very much possible. Did they have a cavalry formation called "Hakkapeliitta"? Maybe not. That the Hakkapeliittas formed a substantial part of the Swedish cavalry is most likely a later, nationalistic invention, but at least several cavalry regiments were raised in the Finnish-speaking areas and some of them did certainly see service in Germany.

Don't feed him.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 00:57

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# ? May 23, 2024 20:43

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

In case you don't understand what Hogge Wild is talking about, check the time the post quoted by the dude asking the question was made.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 00:59

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

cheerfullydrab posted:

Listen, I get the premise, but I was talking about the Soviet people in the novel not the Soviet state itself.

The anti-muslim stuff is mostly in the beginning. There seems to be a message that muslims are fanatics who can't be trusted because of their crazy devotion to their God. This comes through not only in the statements of the Russian Soviet characters but also in the inner dialogue of the one guy at the beginning. The statements of the Russian Soviet characters are pretty anti-muslim on their face, but you can dismiss that if you like as Clancy just saying that those characters are prejudiced. The problem is that he seems to agree with them.

This is pretty standard throughout Clancy's later work. The average Abu Hajaar jihadi is incompetent but 100% devoted to the cause. The Bin Ladens of the world are just like the American bad guys who block Jack Ryan's "centrist" politics, snorting coke off a hooker's rear end and all. Also all cops in Europe make the US cops look like models of professional behaviour, because you see Germany won WWII and the EU is actually run by secret nazis.

JcDent posted:

Nobody remembers that Rainbow Six is the book where hippies and environmentalists try to kill the world via a virus they developed by testing it on hobos and kidnapped club girls.

Also hobos! I read it again a while back. I love Clancy's terribleness.

Raskolnikov38 posted:

I dunno what was more hilarious about Red Storm Rising, an attack on one oil refinery being enough to cripple the entire USSR or the soviets conquering Iceland with a single container ship.

The British did it in WWII with less than 800 men. Operation Fork if you're interested.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 03:58

oohhboy: Jun 8, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Red October is good in the way that in a sub Clancy didn't really have the space(HA!) to go off the deep end. LOL in Bear and the Dragon Russia is now part of NATO.

Without Remorse is your pretty standard white male revenge fantasy but completely horrifying as he turns people into paste with a hyperbaric chamber. Ends with "You murdered a poo poo ton of people with extremely questionable methods, would you like to work for the CIA?". I really hope that no one took his writing seriously, but I know there are plenty.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 06:06

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

oohhboy posted:

Red October is good in the way that in a sub Clancy didn't really have the space(HA!) to go off the deep end. LOL in Bear and the Dragon Russia is now part of NATO.

Without Remorse is your pretty standard white male revenge fantasy but completely horrifying as he turns people into paste with a hyperbaric chamber. Ends with "You murdered a poo poo ton of people with extremely questionable methods, would you like to work for the CIA?". I really hope that no one took his writing seriously, but I know there are plenty.

Most worrying, Reagan did.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 06:19

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

oohhboy posted:

Red October is good in the way that in a sub Clancy didn't really have the space(HA!) to go off the deep end. LOL in Bear and the Dragon Russia is now part of NATO.

Without Remorse is your pretty standard white male revenge fantasy but completely horrifying as he turns people into paste with a hyperbaric chamber. Ends with "You murdered a poo poo ton of people with extremely questionable methods, would you like to work for the CIA?". I really hope that no one took his writing seriously, but I know there are plenty.

Was without remorse the one with Clark killing drug dealers? Reading and being unable to finish whichever one was that right after Rainbow 6 made teenage me realize how stupid Clancy was.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 06:29

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Red Army by Peters is a good dad novel (that's how Cold War thread is calling them) and the most interesting thing about it is how he doesn't name drop tech. Like, half the boner I get from these books comes from people gushing about planes and tanks, but in Peters work, you can only guess for yourself. Is the recon vehicle at the start of the book a BMP-1 or BMP-2? It doesn't really matter to the plot and you can play a fun guessing game.

inb4 "muh realism" because it doesn't end in graphic depiction of everyone dying in a nuclear exchange...

# ? Jun 13, 2016 07:27

oohhboy: Jun 8, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Was without remorse the one with Clark killing drug dealers? Reading and being unable to finish whichever one was that right after Rainbow 6 made teenage me realize how stupid Clancy was.

Yeah, it's the "Prequel" for John Clark before he became John Clark. It pretty much embodies everything one could do wrong as a nation/person unless you just wanted to murder drug dealers in which it does in great detail and glee.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 07:36

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Battlefield 1 gameplay! Time to be unhappy about scooting tanks and WWI parachute assaults!

# ? Jun 13, 2016 08:55

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Alchenar posted:

Churchill tried to micromanage like crazy. Fortunately Alan Brooke was an exceptionally capable Chief of the General Staff who was able stare him down over all his bad ideas.

Churchill, Hitler, and Stalin were all armchair generals with intense personalities used to getting their own way. Churchill had a political system that made it possible for people to block him if he strayed outside of his brief as PM. Stalin wanted to win and his desire to control everything fluctuated in proportion to how likely it looked like the USSR was going to lose the war. Hitler purged any and all resistance to his whims.

Oh man, I read Alanbrookes war diaries, I've never seen so much complaining about Churchill in a single book, let alone a single page!

# ? Jun 13, 2016 09:25

Tree Bucket: Apr 1, 2016; R.I.P.idura leucophrys

Hi thread! I'm putting together a (very) light strategic board game for a friend, based on the wars of medieval Europe. For balance purposes I need to divide the bit covered by today's Germany into two seperate regions/zones/provinces. Any thoughts on the least worst way to do this? Also I have learnt that maps of the HRE are literally incomprehensible.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:15

Elyv: Jun 14, 2013

"Medieval" is pretty broad. What time period are you thinking?

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:20

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Nebakenezzer posted:

Hitler entered a nasty cycle where things would go bad -> he'd blame his generals, and often either sack them and replace them with more optimistic men, or just begin managing battles himself. And of course, as things went worse for the Germans, he was taking on more personal responsibility. Stalin is kind of odd, in that he seems hyper involved in the day to day management of the war, but at some point learned to trust his generals. (Easy to do, I guess, when you got a guy like Zhukov working for you.) The British managed some appallingly bad ideas, but I don't know how much to blame specifically on Churchill.

FDR is really the outlier here, because [unless you can give an example] he let his military staff do their jobs with very little interference from himself.

It's best to think of British strategy as a formulation of Churchill's saying 'in war, all things are on the move at once', that is to say 'fight everywhere, with everything you have'. In the early years of the war you have a lot of places to fight and nothing to fight with, so there's a lot of grasping at any scheme that looks like it might pay dividends.

The key to Stalin is to realise that he understood very acutely that perception of events does not have to match reality. He could let his generals run things at key points and then take all the credit for victory - and he did, Zhukov basically ended up under house arrest after the war to keep him out of the picture. Hitler's perception of reality was never that grounded or pragmatic - he was right to insist on the Manstein-Guderian plan for France, but rather than just enjoy public credit for the victory seems to have genuinely believed it was entirely down to his strategic genius and forgot the contribution anyone else might have made.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:29

Tree Bucket: Apr 1, 2016; R.I.P.idura leucophrys

High medieval- no gunpowder, plenty of interestingly dreadful stabby things.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:31

Koesj: Aug 3, 2003

Tree Bucket posted:

Hi thread! I'm putting together a (very) light strategic board game for a friend, based on the wars of medieval Europe. For balance purposes I need to divide the bit covered by today's Germany into two seperate regions/zones/provinces. Any thoughts on the least worst way to do this? Also I have learnt that maps of the HRE are literally incomprehensible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wei%DFwurst%E4quator

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:43

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Tree Bucket posted:

Hi thread! I'm putting together a (very) light strategic board game for a friend, based on the wars of medieval Europe. For balance purposes I need to divide the bit covered by today's Germany into two seperate regions/zones/provinces. Any thoughts on the least worst way to do this? Also I have learnt that maps of the HRE are literally incomprehensible.

Uh. Jeeze. Only two?

Catholic and Protestant doesn't work, there's spots and enclaves and poo poo. House of Austria and the rest of the Empire? If you spread it out to more than just Germany you could have "Bohemian bits" and "German bits"

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:43

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Koesj posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wei%DFwurst%E4quator

Draw the line further north, separate those fucks who speak Platte from the normal people?

Anyway I'm back from a reenactment and my God do fat old Bavarian officers sure love their wine.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:45

Koesj: Aug 3, 2003

HEY GAL posted:

Draw the line further north, separate those fucks who speak Platte from the normal people?

Oh me and my family you mean? :qq:

jk I don't speak that poo poo and we're not German anyway, but north-south might still be the most logical divide though.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:50

Rockopolis: Dec 21, 2012; I MAKE FUN OF QUEER STORYGAMES BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH MY LIFE THAN MAKE OTHER PEOPLE CRY

I can't understand these kinds of games, and not getting it bugs me almost as much as me being weird

Anachronistic east west divide? Don't forget to fortify the border.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:52

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Since I'm sure some core threadposters have been playing HoI4 - and experiencing the bizarre phenomenon of giant allied naval invasions in 1939 and 1940 - I'd like to ask a pretty well trodden WW2 militaria question

Could the allies have effected a successful naval invasion of Western Europe prior to June 1944.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:57

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Drunk and nowhere near where a German cavalryman was supposed to be.

the swedes are also probably germans, and i'd be willing to bet that given the area they're Saxons too. it's saxons all the way down

glad he got to hang out with his opponent and have a beer or twelve before he died tho :beerpal:

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:04

Tree Bucket: Apr 1, 2016; R.I.P.idura leucophrys

Thanks, looks like I'll be going with the sausage equator method!
It might be an Australian thing, but I have real problems getting my head around the history of any region that can't be defined by its coastline. Maybe if I start imagining the Alps as just a taller, rockier ocean with very few sharks?

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:04

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Tree Bucket posted:

Thanks, looks like I'll be going with the sausage equator method!
It might be an Australian thing, but I have real problems getting my head around the history of any region that can't be defined by its coastline. Maybe if I start imagining the Alps as just a taller, rockier ocean with very few sharks?

The Empire is...uh...it's a

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#/media/File:Holy_Roman_Empire_1648.svg

it's a thing

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:09

Tree Bucket: Apr 1, 2016; R.I.P.idura leucophrys

HEY GAL posted:

The Empire is...uh...it's a

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#/media/File:Holy_Roman_Empire_1648.svg

it's a thing

Okay, that works, there's a fair bit of coastline there. And I'm digging the bite taken out of the south east border by the Most Serene Republic...
Again, apologies for butchering the history & culture of an entity ten times older than my home town for the sake of a board game, but if it's any consolation, even Byzantium had to be left out entirely.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:24

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Disinterested posted:

Since I'm sure some core threadposters have been playing HoI4 - and experiencing the bizarre phenomenon of giant allied naval invasions in 1939 and 1940 - I'd like to ask a pretty well trodden WW2 militaria question

Could the allies have effected a successful naval invasion of Western Europe prior to June 1944.

Sure!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_invasion_of_Sicily
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_invasion_of_Italy

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:32

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

HEY GAL posted:

Uh. Jeeze. Only two?

Catholic and Protestant doesn't work, there's spots and enclaves and poo poo. House of Austria and the rest of the Empire? If you spread it out to more than just Germany you could have "Bohemian bits" and "German bits"

You saw he said high mediaeval, right? No such thing as a Protestant yet and the top dogs are probably the Hohenstaufens.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:33

Nothingtoseehere: Nov 11, 2010

Disinterested posted:

Since I'm sure some core threadposters have been playing HoI4 - and experiencing the bizarre phenomenon of giant allied naval invasions in 1939 and 1940 - I'd like to ask a pretty well trodden WW2 militaria question

Could the allies have effected a successful naval invasion of Western Europe prior to June 1944.

And whenever you see Britain launching a naval invasion with one division along the french/german coast, remember the Dieppe Raid happened.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:36

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

feedmegin posted:

You saw he said high mediaeval, right? No such thing as a Protestant yet and the top dogs are probably the Hohenstaufens.

yeah i was just collared by my morbid obsession and couldn't stop 17th century posting

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:44

WoodrowSkillson: Feb 24, 2005; *Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

HEY GAL posted:

yeah i was just collared by my morbid obsession and couldn't stop 17th century posting

you're a maniac hegel, if you keep this up we are gonna take your signs of high office!

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:50

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

WW2 Data

The Japanese Inventory for WW2 is finally over! What rifle grenades did the Japanese use? Which one carried a cartridge inside it? Why is the smoke rifle grenade given such an indepth description? What sabotage device will forever change how you view "Pineapple grenade?" Which sabotage device was skillfully done and which sabotage wasn't well thought out? All that at the blog!

With the Russians and Japanese done, its time to move on to the thread-vote Italian and French explosive.

And for those of you who have been reading since the beginning, thank you!

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:00

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

HEY GAL posted:

Ask Us About Military History: was just collared by my morbid obsession and couldn't stop 17th century posting

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:07

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Disinterested posted:

Since I'm sure some core threadposters have been playing HoI4 - and experiencing the bizarre phenomenon of giant allied naval invasions in 1939 and 1940 - I'd like to ask a pretty well trodden WW2 militaria question

Could the allies have effected a successful naval invasion of Western Europe prior to June 1944.

From the wiki article abour Alan Brooke: "As CIGS, Brooke had a strong influence on the grand strategy of the Western Allies. The war in the west unfolded more or less according to his plans, at least until 1943 when the American forces still were relatively small compared to the British. Among the most crucial of his contributions was his opposition against an early landing in France, which was important for delaying Operation Overlord until 1944."

It would probably have been a disaster.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:21

Ensign Expendable: Nov 11, 2008; Lager beer is proof that god loves us; Pillbug

Disinterested posted:

Since I'm sure some core threadposters have been playing HoI4 - and experiencing the bizarre phenomenon of giant allied naval invasions in 1939 and 1940 - I'd like to ask a pretty well trodden WW2 militaria question

Could the allies have effected a successful naval invasion of Western Europe prior to June 1944.

They tried that with the Dieppe raid and that didn't go so well.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:33

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

The Allies could certainly have invaded France in 1943 if they desired but it would be at the cost of the Mediterranean operations and Churchill probably wouldn't have stood for it.

There may also have been some problems letting Italy recover after its North African disaster.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:38

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Beevor points out in his Overlord book that as last as spring 1944 an assessment of most of the US divisions slated for the invasion scored them as unfit for combat and there was a massive remedial training effort to get the Army ready to go in time.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:43

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

Alchenar posted:

Beevor points out in his Overlord book that as last as spring 1944 an assessment of most of the US divisions slated for the invasion scored them as unfit for combat and there was a massive remedial training effort to get the Army ready to go in time.

US divisions received remedial training all throughout 1944 even after the invasion though no doubt the experience in Italy helped a lot.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:47

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Disinterested posted:

Since I'm sure some core threadposters have been playing HoI4 - and experiencing the bizarre phenomenon of giant allied naval invasions in 1939 and 1940 - I'd like to ask a pretty well trodden WW2 militaria question

Could the allies have effected a successful naval invasion of Western Europe prior to June 1944.

Weather allowing, yes - May 1944 is prior to June 1944, right?

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:52

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

100 Years Ago

Yesterday: The ground has been prepared now for the Battle of Mont Sorrel; the men go over after midnight. General Petain is deeply worried about the prospects for Verdun if something doesn't change soon; the Emilio Lussu Comedy Cavalcade continues with, er, some brutal and unflinching memories of combat; Clifford Wells does some Lewis gun training to try to make himself more attractive to potential employers; General Haig continues dreaming about the possibilities of an amphibious attack on Ostend; E.S. Thompson has been predictably censored; Robert Pelissier prompts much-needed childish sniggers with his description of the queer trenches on the Vosges; and Oskar Teichman has heard a truly bizarre rumour.

Today: The Canadian recapture of Mont Sorrel is a complete success. They've got to be careful about this, or they might get a reputation of being good at things! The Battle of Mecca isn't going so well for the rebels; Henri Desagneaux travels the Voie Sacree; one of Lt-Col Fraser-Tytler's guns is on fire; and Georges Connes notices that hard times have been put on the German people.

Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jun 13, 2016

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:07

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

feedmegin posted:

Sure!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_invasion_of_Sicily
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_invasion_of_Italy

Western.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:08

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# ? May 23, 2024 20:43

Rodrigo Diaz: Apr 16, 2007; Knights who are at the wars eat their bread in sorrow;
their ease is weariness and sweat;
they have one good day after many bad

Tree Bucket posted:

Okay, that works, there's a fair bit of coastline there. And I'm digging the bite taken out of the south east border by the Most Serene Republic...
Again, apologies for butchering the history & culture of an entity ten times older than my home town for the sake of a board game, but if it's any consolation, even Byzantium had to be left out entirely.

This sucks, gently caress you.

Also I'd suggest the House of Welf as the dividing faction

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:13

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