USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL June 2016: Oh say can you Arzy?

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Samurai Sanders posted:

But a security company that gives him a gun and the responsibility to use it should have done better.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but Ive got the general impression that if security companies and police fired all psychopaths, they might as well close down.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 10:42

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# ? May 31, 2024 06:15

Maoist Pussy: Feb 12, 2014; by Lowtax

Lid posted:

Oh of course, when i say ideal victim theory i mean that to try and use this to advantage means also Trump has to deify the victims. He cant do that. Physically or mentally. If he wants to try and capitalise on this he would need to stop attacking the lgbt community and immigrants. It aint gonna happen.

Donald Trump is a fairly sophisticated New Yorker and has never been known for attacking the gay community, so that part of your statement is just plain ignorant.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 10:44

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Yeah I have no reason to think Trump is anti gay specifically but what does that matter if so many of his supporters are?

# ? Jun 13, 2016 10:45

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Maoist Pussy posted:

Donald Trump is a fairly sophisticated New Yorker and has never been known for attacking the gay community, so that part of your statement is just plain ignorant.

Uh huh.

It's a good rule of thumb that Trump has said unpleasant things about pretty much any minority group you care to mention.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 10:55

Inferior Third Season: Jan 15, 2005

Darth Walrus posted:

Uh huh.

It's a good rule of thumb that Trump has said unpleasant things about pretty much any minority group you care to mention.

Eh, these are mostly tame for a Republican, and speak more to the fact that he's been dabbling in GOP politics for a while now. These seem more like things he just went along with rather than things he truly believes. The last one gives it away - he doesn't really care or think about LGBT issues.

The troubling thing with these statements is that he's signaling he'll just go along with a Republican congress as a puppet on issues he doesn't already feel strongly about.

And that one about Caitlyn Jenner is really stretching it. He's talking about the past, when she presented herself as "he", and went by the name Bruce.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 11:15

Nitrousoxide: May 30, 2011; do not buy a oneplus phone

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742096033207844864

Since this guy was a natural born US citizen can we assume he wants to ban US citizens from entering the US?

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:40

Old James: Nov 20, 2003; Wait a sec. I don't know an Old James!

Nitrousoxide posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742096033207844864

Since this guy was a natural born US citizen can we assume he wants to ban US citizens from entering the US?

I'm pretty sure he confirmed he would ban American citizens from enterring the US if they were muslim until he "could figure this whole thing out".

# ? Jun 13, 2016 12:52

PST: Jul 5, 2012; If only Milliband had eaten a vegan sausage roll instead of a bacon sandwich, we wouldn't be in this mess.

I doubt there'll be any serious criticism of the police, but waiting three hours to go in is surprising given past training and procedures involving active shooters.

I''m taking a wild guess that it was the suspicion of a bomb (though they didn't suspect that until after the robot went in, which is still well after arrival etc.). Maybe he said he had a bomb in his 911 call, maybe someone saw something and that was one of the first things they heard etc. Either way, there have been a few comments on it but all with the 'we weren't there, it's not our place to criticise but procedures say...'

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:06

Thundercracker: Jun 25, 2004; Proudly serving the Ruinous Powers since as a veteran of the long war.; College Slice

flavor posted:

This will be totally forgotten by that time.

None of this means anything until the first debate. Where either Hillary just perforates Trump's ban or, in a turn about, he really does make her seem weak and milquetoast

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:11

greatn: Nov 15, 2006; by Lowtax

My opponent just admitted he would ban Emmy winner Tony Shaloub from entering the country. If my opponent had HIS way, there would be no Monk, and Wings would have been substantially different from season 2.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:22

Ligur: Sep 6, 2000; by Lowtax

Darth Walrus posted:

Uh huh.

It's a good rule of thumb that Trump has said unpleasant things about pretty much any minority group you care to mention.

Uhhh, those are mostly really stretching it or a bit paranoid.

Seems to me more like a case of someone really wanting to believe something, then reading what is necessary between the lines for hot confirmation bias action.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:33

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty loving sure that the overall LGBT community is pretty good at recognizing violently bigoted rhetoric aimed at inciting hatred against a minority group and aren't suddenly going to flock to Trump because he hasn't been on the record for openly hating them. Yet. And the fact that the majority of people murdered in this attack were Latino and thus direct targets of Trump is also something that matters.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:56

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Pellisworth posted:

loving lol

LGBT Americans skew heavily Democratic, and Hillary is a bit of a gay icon in that she's regarded as a consistent supporter of LGBT rights, someone who is never afraid to call it like it is w/r/t LGBT persecution.

Fifty people are dead and another fifty-odd injured in the deadliest shooting in American history, targeted at a large gay nightclub during Pride weekend. Maximum fabulous fish in a barrel.

The LGBT community loving hates Trump, or at the least is apathetic to politics in general.

"A Muslim slaughtered a bunch of gays in the name of ISIS, surely this will boost Trump's support in the LGBT community."

No, very much not.

Don't forget that nearly all the the people gunned down were latin@ transpeople who were loathe to support trump given his wall antics anyway.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 13:57

FourLeaf: Dec 2, 2011

This is even more ridiculous than the idea that legions of Bernie supporters are going to flock over to vote Trump after Bernie lost. I highly loving doubt a bunch of LGBT Latinos are going to start voting Trump after this shooting. Get a grip.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:08

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

PST posted:

I doubt there'll be any serious criticism of the police, but waiting three hours to go in is surprising given past training and procedures involving active shooters.

I''m taking a wild guess that it was the suspicion of a bomb (though they didn't suspect that until after the robot went in, which is still well after arrival etc.). Maybe he said he had a bomb in his 911 call, maybe someone saw something and that was one of the first things they heard etc. Either way, there have been a few comments on it but all with the 'we weren't there, it's not our place to criticise but procedures say...'

They said that he called the police and said he had a bomb. There was a police officer who shot at him when he started shooting who was there for security. The timeline they laid out this morning was a bit unclear to me but it sounds like he shot at some people outside, then forced his way into the building until he barricaded himself into the bathroom. They had to use a Bearcat APC to get through the wall after explosives failed to open an entry.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:18

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty loving sure that the overall LGBT community is pretty good at recognizing violently bigoted rhetoric aimed at inciting hatred against a minority group and aren't suddenly going to flock to Trump because he hasn't been on the record for openly hating them. Yet. And the fact that the majority of people murdered in this attack were Latino and thus direct targets of Trump is also something that matters.

Also, Trump's first words were "Yay! I called it about Muslims!" Hillary's were "My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims, families, and wider LGBT community victimized by this attack."

Oh, and Trump's probable answer regarding the ban is that it might not have stopped this guy, but it would have stopped his parents - refugees from Afghanistan - from entering the country, thereby stopping this attack.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:22

Numlock: May 19, 2007; The simplest seppo on the forums

Trabisnikof posted:

So the guy with guns at LA pride is bi, so expect all mention of this story to fade away quickly.

Not surprising, from the first it sounded like they just picked up some TFR guy out to shoot some hot loads with his bud.

Liquid Communism posted:

The employer is bullshit because they were specifically employing the guy as armed security despite reportedly erratic and threatening behavior.

I doubt security companies do continuous background checks and do a lot of investigation into the background of their employees after they are hired. Its a rent-a-cop outlet not the NSA.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:24

Randalor: Sep 4, 2011

Liquid Communism posted:

Native born US citizen with no prior criminal or mental health records, as reported so far. Working in a job that supposedly requires fairly stringent background checks.

I've worked for G4S. I can safely say that there were no background checks. I've met a few people like him working there, and the HR department just didn't give a gently caress.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:41

Crain: Jun 27, 2007; I had a beer once with Stephen Miller and now I like him.

I also tried to ban someone from a Discord for pointing out what an unrelenting shithead I am! I'm even dumb enough to think it worked!

The thing with Trump's, and his supporters, supposed support of gay people is that the mentality they have is "you're fine as long as you just stay in that loving closet".

Trump is on record against marriage equality. He's heavily mixed on if discrimination based on sexuality should be opposed by the government. And seems to just play that by ear depending on who is in the audience.

But the theme I see with them is they're fine with you if you make it as easy as possible for them to ignore who you are. The notable exception is Milo, and he gets a pass because he's up on stage and online telling them to call him a human being. He tells them to call other homosexuals human being, Dyke, or whatever other slur they want. He also spend time reassuring them that he hates being a homosexual, and that it's wrong.

That's not the kind of rhetoric or platform that will invite large LGBT support. At best the rhetoric in this country under a Trump administration would slip backwards at least 10 years, if not further, in terms of what will be "tolerated" against LGBT and other minorities.

And that's to say nothing about Trans issues which the Trump wing is loving horrible on.

There is no way anything he says tonight will endear the LGB community to him. And I did leave the T out there on purpose.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:50

Ligur: Sep 6, 2000; by Lowtax

Whatever happens after this shooting (my guess is: nothing really) we can probably all be pretty sure it will not affect future voting in any meaningful manner. We might see a spike or two just now but in the long run? Nah.

People who vote for Trump because they don't "like Muslims" or whatever will keep voting him and go "hah, we told u so, see those Muslims at it again". People who do not vote for Trump because they think Trump is a muslim-hating-hitler will will keep thinking Trump is a horrible monster, and wouldn't make any connection with the Orlando shootings and Muslims anyway. All will stay where it is and stuff will be decided elsewhere.

Ligur fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jun 13, 2016

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:53

emdash: Oct 19, 2003; and?

hilldawg: i'll say "radical islam"

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/283231-clinton-i-am-not-going-to-demonize-an-entire-religion

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:53

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/NickBaumann/status/742352136013484032

I'm jumping to the end of the thread to avoid the weekend Islamophobia, so apologies if y'all discussed this already.

I know he was investigated twice by the FBI, but was he on a watch list still?

# ? Jun 13, 2016 14:58

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

emdash posted:

hilldawg: i'll say "radical islam"

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/283231-clinton-i-am-not-going-to-demonize-an-entire-religion

That really isn't the point of what she was saying and that people are taking that as the take away is hilariously sad.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:02

emdash: Oct 19, 2003; and?

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

That really isn't the point of what she was saying and that people are taking that as the take away is hilariously sad.

i mean, no, it's not the point, but sad? more like if you were watching her say it live you could see that interpretation coming a million miles away

after all trump said the president should say it, it must be important!

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:03

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

emdash posted:

i mean, no, it's not the point, but sad? more like if you were watching her say it live you could see it coming a million miles away

It's literally the same response Obama has given with a little less of his finesse.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:04

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedAndrew/status/742355628681748480

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedAndrew/status/742356562216398848

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:05

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

That really isn't the point of what she was saying and that people are taking that as the take away is hilariously sad.

Yea, just saying the words won't appease the people who keep going "Why won't Obama say Radical Islamic Terrorism?" because they want the next words to be "And I will now nuke the gently caress out of them."

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:05

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

zoux posted:

I'm jumping to the end of the thread to avoid the weekend Islamophobia, so apologies if y'all discussed this already.

I know he was investigated twice by the FBI, but was he on a watch list still?

I don't think that information has been discussed has said either way about his current status.

While I'm for the repeal of the second amendment, I really don't want extra-judicial lists to be used to deny something that is defined as a right. I'm pretty confident that a weakening of the 2nd is going to lead to a weakening of the 1st.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:07

Ligur: Sep 6, 2000; by Lowtax

Crain posted:

The thing with Trump's, and his supporters, supposed support of gay people is that the mentality they have is "you're fine as long as you just stay in that loving closet".

Trump is on record against marriage equality. He's heavily mixed on if discrimination based on sexuality should be opposed by the government. And seems to just play that by ear depending on who is in the audience.

There's actually quite a bit between approving/not-approving with gender neutral marriage (which many a conservative liken to a Christian tradition between men and women) and requiring gay people to "stay in the loving closet" and even more between actively hating them. It's far fetched to think Trump is bothered with gay people partying or marching on the street or having sex or living together orwhatver. I'm sure some of his supporters are, but that goes along with the territory. It's impossible to be a presidential canditate and not attract the more fringe elements from where you stand, be it left or right. If someone who actually does hate gay people has to vote for someone, he doesn't have much choice but...

I'm slightly bothered by how easily Trump and his supporters are lumped into gay haters because of the marriage issue.

From here it seems more like we're following a certain narrative where Republicans or right-wingers represent all what is evil: if they oppose illegal immigration it means they hate immigrants (as if those two are even the same thing), and if they hate immigrants they must hate other minorities as well, so that surely includes the LGBT community, and what do people who hate Mexicans and gay people probably hate as well? Yeah you got it women, and that makes them anti-feminist and anti-progressive and anti-liberal and we end up with hitler. (I've seen compared to Hitler dozens if not hundreds of times.)

That's not a really honest position to take.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:08

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Anyway -- I think the focus on the aftermath of this terrible tragedy aught to be on how we can stand by and say nothing needs to change when an American citizen obtained the means to carry out his attack legally, despite having all sort of red flags about his mental health and his zealotry (regardless of his religion.) In the larger scheme of things, solving that issue likely does more to combat homegrown terrorists than any amount of hand wringing about Radical Jihadists.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:11

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

Ligur posted:

From here it seems more like we're following a certain narrative where Republicans or right-wingers represent all what is evil: if they oppose illegal immigration it means they hate immigrants (as if those two are even the same thing), and if they hate immigrants they must hate other minorities as well, so that surely includes the LGBT community, and what do people who hate Mexicans and gay people probably hate as well? Yeah you got it women, and that makes them anti-feminist and anti-progressive and anti-liberal and we end up with hitler. (I've seen compared to Hitler dozens if not hundreds of times.)

That's not a really honest position to take.

But they actually are all of those things, minus being Hitler. Granted, not every single Republican is a terrible bigot, but the party itself is literally evil.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:13

emdash: Oct 19, 2003; and?

quote:

"I'm getting thousands of letters and tweets that I was right about the whole situation," Trump said on Fox News. "I mean, I've been right about a lot of things, frankly... I was right about many, many things."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ting/?tid=sm_tw

it's very important to be Right about Things

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:14

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

emdash posted:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ting/?tid=sm_tw

it's very important to be Right about Things

Trump, like everyone else doing this, is a huge jackass for seeing this tragedy and thinking "How do these events show me that I'm right?"

If your first thought was "how does this reinforce a thing I know" then you are the bad man, everyone

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:15

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

quote:

Trump Suggests He Still Thinks Obama Is A Secret Muslim

Presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump implied he still believes President Obama is secretly Muslim during a Monday Fox News interview, saying Obama�s refusal to say �radical Islamic terrorism� after the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history betrays a larger motive.

After tweeting that he was getting �congrats for being right� about Sunday's attack in Orlando, Florida, Trump told the �Fox and Friends� crew he was still getting �thousands of letters and tweets� praising his judgement.

�I mean, I've been right about a lot of things, frankly, I was right about �take the oil,� I was right about many, many things,� he said, �Our government, we�re lead by a man � look, guys, we�re lead by a man that either is not tough, not smart, or he�s got something else in mind, people can�t believe it.�

�They cannot believe that President Obama is acting the way he acts and can�t even mention the words radical Islamic terrorism,� he continued. �There�s something going on. It�s inconceivable. There�s something going on.�

The New York businessman also tweeted Sunday that Obama should immediately resign for refusing to use the terror terminology favored by conservatives.

Amid peak birther fervor over Obama�s birth certificate in 2011, Trump told Fox News that perhaps the President wanted to suppress the document because �maybe it says he is a Muslim.�

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-obama-secret-muslim-orlando

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:22

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-obama-secret-muslim-orlando

This man cannot be president.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:23

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

So Paul Ryan, do you also think that President Obama is a secret ISIS musl....Mr. Speaker are you crying?

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:25

On Terra Firma: Feb 12, 2008

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

This man cannot be president.

Yes that's what every election forecast model has been saying for a while now.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:25

Dubstep Jesus: Jun 27, 2012; by exmarx

Even some of the Republicans on my Facebook are making GBS threads on Trump for that tweet. Trump seems determined to depress GOP turnout as much as possible.

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:26

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/ralphreed/status/742068806542086144

*googles Ralph Reed* what the gently caress

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:27

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# ? May 31, 2024 06:15

smg77: Apr 27, 2007

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/ralphreed/status/742068806542086144

*googles Ralph Reed* what the gently caress

Did his twitter account get hacked?

# ? Jun 13, 2016 15:31

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