|
McAlister posted:For obvious reasons "how it's made" videos are all about older tech. The focus of my argument was the size, cost, emissions, and noises of the machines used. At no point have I listed skilled labor as a choke point. Expensive machines often are utilized by low skill laborer. The issue is obtaining the noisy expensive machines and then using them without anyone noticing because if people notice you breaking the law you will be shut down. You should consider that these operations can hide in plain sight very easily. Consider the previously posted example of bikers making the equivalent of Grease Guns on their own. The equipment needed to make these is the same as the equipment used in a custom bike shop. Sure it would be more difficult to build an AK, but it wouldn't be that hard either. And you can do it all with legally owned machines in otherwise legally-run businesses. AKs can be stamped, milled or forged and I think forged would be the easiest but I'm not an expert. Ammo is even easier to manufacture if you have a source of propellant and primers, and the presses can be set up or moved very easily. Filthy Hans fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Jun 14, 2016 |
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 10:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 14:20 |
|
|
What happened to Obama's executive order from January that was supposed, among other things, to close the gunshow loophole? Everyone was making a big deal of it at the time, but I cant tell if any of it actually went in to effect.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 10:28
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:I'm just trying to suss out if there is literally any issue where people are willing to say, "I think one way, but other reasonable people may disagree, or have deeply held beliefs that conflict with my own" rather than everyone who disagrees being either an uninformed idiot or deliberately malicious. Of course. The question of whether I'm a person with inalienable rights whose life has intrinsic value as a human being is an open one on which reasonable people may disagree, and I respect and admire the Republican party's deeply-held beliefs that conflict with my own opinion. I'd prefer that they stop discriminating against people like me, calling us perverts and child molesters, trying to jail us and pass laws targeting us, blaming us for natural disasters, and not-so-subtly implying that it'd be better if we didn't exist while fêting preachers who openly call for my death. But I'm willing to compromise and ask that they only do half that stuff Of course, the question of whether I'm a human being or a demon in human skin with whom compromise is a sin is an open one on which reasonable people may disagree, and I respect and admire the Republican party's deeply-held beliefs that conflict with my own opinion, and I'm willing to compromise and ask that they do all that stuff above but maybe sometimes mention how great my homemade holiday eggnog is. Of course, the question of whether I'm a human being or a Satanic pervert always on the verge of raping every Christian child on sight is an open one on which reasonable people may disagree, and I respect and admire the Republican party's deeply-held beliefs that conflict with my own opinion, and I'm willing to compromise on that too and get nothing. Of course, the question of whether I'm a human being or a living rebuke to the Almighty who delights in bringing his thunderous wrath down upon America is an open one on which reasonable people may disagree, and I respect and admire the Republican party's deeply-held beliefs that conflict with my own opinion, and I'm willing to compromise on that too and help out with the lynchings.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 10:39
|
|
|
Meat Recital posted:What happened to Obama's executive order from January that was supposed, among other things, to close the gunshow loophole? Everyone was making a big deal of it at the time, but I cant tell if any of it actually went in to effect. What happened is that the President can't change state laws by fiat, and the laws governing private firearms transactions between non-dealers are at the state level and have to be fixed at that level. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Jun 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 11:24
|
|
|
Obama's full of poo poo. He was supposed to take all are guns and force all the white people into fema camps years ago. I'm pissed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 11:33
|
|
|
DemeaninDemon posted:Obama's full of poo poo. He was supposed to take all are guns and force all the white people into fema camps years ago. I'm pissed. I'm still waiting on my application for his storm troopers to go through. Herding rascal scooters full of bloated Christian whiteys into FEMA camps is extremely my poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 11:48
|
|
|
Yo I don't need to be a gun expert to know that I don't want to be murdered by some rear end in a top hat with a gun so you can gently caress off with your "People who have never used a gun are tossing their opinions around and they shouldn't" bullshit. Your fetish for murder weapons costs lives. The current restrictions are not sufficient, as evidenced by the fact that if someone wants to go on a killing spree, the only thing stopping them is whether they really want to or if they're just kicking the idea around.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:07
|
|
|
DemeaninDemon posted:Obama's full of poo poo. He was supposed to take all are guns and force all the white people into fema camps years ago. I'm pissed. He still has time to suspend the Constitution and declare himself Emperor-for-Life! The longest of cons
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:09
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:He still has time to suspend the Constitution and declare himself Emperor-for-Life! The longest of cons And deprive  of her time to shine?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:16
|
|
|
McAlister posted:The focus of my argument was the size, cost, emissions, and noises of the machines used. .... The issue is obtaining the noisy expensive machines and then using them without anyone noticing because if people notice you breaking the law you will be shut down. You don't need much in the way of machinery at all to produce a quick n' dirty tube sub gun that can clear rooms. You don't even really need a lathe or much knowledge either. You just need a dremel, a wire welder, access to a Home Depot for materials, and some free time and you can pretty easily make something like a sten gun. Or something like this:  Now that thing is a real piece of crap. Something on it will probably break within a few hundred rounds...but its still enough to kill a bunch a people in a room just like happened recently in Orlando. I will say that if you happened to want to produce a highly accurate gun that can hit stuff out 1000yd or a full up belt fed machine gun that can fire for 10's of thousands of rounds then yes some of the issues you're talking about will come into play but those aren't the sorts of weapons that are used really in any shootings. edit:\/\/\/\/\/ So are the tools to make a simple tube sub gun. FWIW, just so people know my biases, while I like shooting guns (no practical purpose, its just fun to me) I have no problem with some extra restrictions on them. Particularly hand guns which is what is normally used in most shootings. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Jun 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:19
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:The current restrictions are not sufficient, as evidenced by the fact that if someone wants to go on a killing spree, the only thing stopping them is whether they really want to or if they're just kicking the idea around. Pressure cookers, fertilizers, and airplanes are used pretty normally by most people
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:20
|
|
|
amuayse posted:Pressure cookers, fertilizers, and airplanes are used pretty normally by most people Your point being?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:33
|
|
|
amuayse posted:Pressure cookers, fertilizers, and airplanes are used pretty normally by most people But if you put fertilizer in a pressure cooker they won't let you take it on a plane.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:38
|
|
|
PC LOAD LETTER posted:McAlister I usually agree with your posts, and you normally do really good posts, but you're kinda in the wrong here. Unless we're in Mad Max, making your own gun is pointless when you can just as easily use the propellant to blow up a sack of rusty nails in a crowd.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:39
|
|
|
greatn posted:But if you put fertilizer in a pressure cooker they won't let you take it on a plane. You should have just seen the meal they offered on my last flight 
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:41
|
|
|
amuayse posted:Pressure cookers, fertilizers, and airplanes are used pretty normally by most people After Oklahoma City, didn't they change how fertilizer was made to prevent people from buying huge amounts of soon-to-be explosives? It's almost like we had a terrorist attack and decided to do something about it to prevent another one in the future.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:42
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:Yo I don't need to be a gun expert to know that I don't want to be murdered by some rear end in a top hat with a gun so you can gently caress off with your "People who have never used a gun are tossing their opinions around and they shouldn't" bullshit. Your fetish for murder weapons costs lives. The current restrictions are not sufficient, as evidenced by the fact that if someone wants to go on a killing spree, the only thing stopping them is whether they really want to or if they're just kicking the idea around. Nobody in power is going to pay any attention to your anti-gun ramblings if you are completely unfamiliar with the issue and terminology any more than they're going to listen to a crazy eyed antivaxxer about medical policy. Realize that is precisely how you sound to anyone with a remote knowledge of guns.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:45
|
|
|
DemeaninDemon posted:Unless we're in Mad Max, making your own gun is pointless when you can just as easily use the propellant to blow up a sack of rusty nails in a crowd. True but I was just addressing what McAlister was saying about the difficulty or issues associated with making guns. Ugly truth is if you want to be a rear end in a top hat and kill people there are all sorts of ways to do it. Regulating certain things will help reduce the risk of an rear end in a top hat pulling it off but you can probably never make it impossible. edit: \/\/\/\/\/Huh? Even a crappy sub gun is usually accurate enough (ie. hit a pie plate sized target) out to 50yd. Stens and Grease guns were usually that good out to 100-75yd for reference. And in a crowded club packed with hundreds of people you're talking about ranges of 10yd or less. You don't know what you're talking about at all. And lethality at that range doesn't require much at all. 9mm or .45acp would be quite nasty even shot out of a homebrew barrel that keyholes the rounds when it exits the barrel. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Jun 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:48
|
|
|
A tub sub gun would not have killed nearly as many people as the semi auto AR-15 the shooter used. Their accuracy is atrocious even in the context of shooting up a club, and pistol bullets are drastically less lethal than 5.56 NATO rounds.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:49
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Nobody in power is going to pay any attention to your anti-gun ramblings if you are completely unfamiliar with the issue and terminology any more than they're going to listen to a crazy eyed antivaxxer about medical policy. Realize that is precisely how you sound to anyone with a remote knowledge of guns. drat and here I thought my forum posts arguing with the kinds of assholes who compare gun control to anti-vaxxing were really gonna go somewhere!
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:52
|
|
|
Killer robot posted:That's what the cartridge was designed for. The cartridge the AR-15 was chambered in is the 5.56×45mm NATO round. NATO's organizational purpose is not 'varmint hunting'. The AR-15 was not designed as a 'varmint rifle'.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:52
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:drat and here I thought my forum posts arguing with the kinds of assholes who compare gun control to anti-vaxxing were really gonna go somewhere! Nah, comparing your posting to antivaxxers. Know what you're talking about well enough to actually talk policy. Or don't, it's the forums. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:57
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Nobody in power is going to pay any attention to your anti-gun ramblings if you are completely unfamiliar with the issue and terminology any more than they're going to listen to a crazy eyed antivaxxer about medical policy. Realize that is precisely how you sound to anyone with a remote knowledge of guns. I would contend that there are lots of people in power who are completely unfamiliar with the issue and the terminology. I mean, there's a reason why people sneer at the phrase "assault weapons"
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:58
|
|
|
The Insect Court posted:The cartridge the AR-15 was chambered in is the 5.56×45mm NATO round. NATO's organizational purpose is not 'varmint hunting'. The AR-15 was not designed as a 'varmint rifle'.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 12:59
|
|
|
Bird in a Blender posted:After Oklahoma City, didn't they change how fertilizer was made to prevent people from buying huge amounts of soon-to-be explosives? It's almost like we had a terrorist attack and decided to do something about it to prevent another one in the future.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:00
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Nah, comparing your posting to antivaxxers. Know what you're talking about well enough to actually talk policy. If you want to run with your analogy it would be more appropriate to say that someone can't argue for the merits of vaccines unless they are already versed in the specifics of manufacturing and administering them. That isn't as useful to you as belittling anyone who doesn't share your fetish though so I understand why you'd go with the "call them crazy" approach instead.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:08
|
|
|
Also it's worth noting the Tsarnaevs had to go to New Hampshire to get fireworks for the powder inside the pressure cooker bombs because oh, whaddya know, fireworks are (rightly) illegal in Massachusetts. And then after all that effort they killed 3 people with them (and later one other, with a gun). Seems Mateen correctly concluded it was much less hassle to just legally buy an AR-15 and kill way more people
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:08
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:If you want to run with your analogy it would be more appropriate to say that someone can't argue for the merits of vaccines unless they are already versed in the specifics of manufacturing and administering them. That isn't as useful to you as belittling anyone who doesn't share your fetish though so I understand why you'd go with the "call them crazy" approach instead. I'm sure going to take them a lot more seriously if they aren't referring to 'stabby arm thingies' or asking why we don't vaccinate against being Muslim.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:12
|
|
|
Riptor posted:Also it's worth noting the Tsarnaevs had to go to New Hampshire to get fireworks for the powder inside the pressure cooker bombs because oh, whaddya know, fireworks are (rightly) illegal in Massachusetts. At the same time though they wounded something around another 300, it was really a miracle more people weren't killed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:17
|
|
|
Holy poo poo people, I thought gun chat was prohibited in these threads (and for good reason).
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:19
|
|
|
Jim Van Horn, 71, told the Associated Press Mateen was a “regular” at the Pulse nightclub where the murders took place. “He was trying to pick up people. Men,” he said. “He was a homosexual and he was trying to pick up men. He would walk up to them and then he would maybe put his arm round them or something ... That’s what people do at gay bars. That’s what we do.” Asked what went through his mind when he saw his picture, Van Horn, who lost three friends in the shooting, said: “We just went, ‘Oh. That makes sense. That’s Omar.’” He added: “I think it’s possible that he was trying to deal with his inner demons, of trying to get rid of his anger of homosexuality,. It’s really confusing to me. Because you can’t change who you are. But if you pretend that you’re different, then you may shoot up a gay bar.”
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:21
|
|
|
Alzion posted:Holy poo poo people, I thought gun chat was prohibited in these threads (and for good reason). Only thing that can stop a bad guy with gun posts is a good guy with gun posts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:22
|
|
|
Oh, man.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:23
|
|
|
Alzion posted:Holy poo poo people, I thought gun chat was prohibited in these threads (and for good reason). It's rather hard to suppress in the wake of these incidents.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:24
|
|
|
Lid posted:Jim Van Horn, 71, told the Associated Press Mateen was a “regular” at the Pulse nightclub where the murders took place. “He was trying to pick up people. Men,” he said. “He was a homosexual and he was trying to pick up men. He would walk up to them and then he would maybe put his arm round them or something ... That’s what people do at gay bars. That’s what we do.” I called this as soon as I learned it was a gay bar. How is it that Trump claims this man isn't American, when he was a wife-beating, self-hating, gun-loving, closet case from Florida? It's just such an expected and not at all shocking profile of an American mass shooter. They're nearly always like this guy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:29
|
|
|
Nichael posted:I called this as soon as I learned it was a gay bar. How is it that Trump claims this man isn't American, when he was a wife-beating, self-hating, gun-loving, closet case from Florida? It's just such an expected and not at all shocking profile of an American mass shooter. They're nearly always like this guy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:37
|
|
|
Just in case anyone reads this, it's a hilariously terrible article. No, an AR-15 isn't going to blow giant holes in people.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:39
|
|
|
Inferior Third Season posted:Hmm... yes... what could be different about Omar Mateen, son of Afghan immigrants, that might differentiate him from other mass shooters, such that the narrative focuses on something other than him being a disturbed lone wolf? I feel like there must be something... Well, yeah, but these people are largely the same. 18-30 years old males, disaffected with society, often sexually frustrated in some fashion, with a predilection to focus on proving their masculinity. Obviously, this one roped his religion into it as well. Rigid societal gender roles are a recurring theme of these shootings, and that's largely ignored by the media.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:41
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:It's rather hard to suppress in the wake of these incidents. Somebody usually makes a gun chat containment zone thread.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 14:20 |
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:I'm sure going to take them a lot more seriously if they aren't referring to 'stabby arm thingies' or asking why we don't vaccinate against being Muslim. And I'll take you more seriously if you don't equate deaths from alcohol related disease to deaths from being shot by another person and feigning ignorance as to the difference, which is actually a thing you posted and not a rhetorical device like your condescending anti-vaxxer comparison.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:58
|
|