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Skaven should have an underempire map which you can switch to and it has like 30 Skaven factions and every single one has a 100% chance to accept/give alliance/trade/NAP offers, but then there is a 50% chance each round that they will break each agreement and declare war on a friend, sack their properties and immediately sue for peace.
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Jun 14, 2016 13:20
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Can't wait for the angry shitpost about Skaven breaking an NAP.
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Jun 14, 2016 13:23
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Skaven make Orcs look like rock-steady allies you can always trust to have your back.
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Jun 14, 2016 13:25
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Kitchner posted:I suspect the first DLC will be Brettonia, Beastmen, and Wood Elf campaigns. Really? Be careful out on that limb there, Nostradamus.
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Jun 14, 2016 13:27
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Voyager I posted:Can't wait for the angry shitpost about Skaven breaking an NAP. Skavens' special campaign mechanic will be that you get a growing malus to public order every five turns without a broken diplomatic agreement.
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Jun 14, 2016 13:37
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The first DLC will be Bretonnian and that's probably it. This isn't Attila where you change the weapon a unit and call it a day, most races will require new animations, models, and changes to the world map. The new empire factions like Kislev as a playable are the only ones they might sneak in, and we've heard nothing about that so far. That being said, I hope they get patch 1 and the first DLC, whatever it is, out pretty soon. Beast men and wood elves may make an appearance, but probably not playable would be my guess. EDIT: Maybe I'm wrong here actually, Bretonnia may likely be the first free race alongside Beastmen as that first faction DLC pack, which is pack 3 from that list. I wonder what number 2 is, probably something smaller like a LL pack. Mazz fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 13:45
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Mazz posted:The first DLC will be Bretonnian and that's probably it. This isn't Attila where you change the weapon a unit and call it a day, most races will require new animations, models, and changes to the world map. The new empire factions like Kislev as a playable are the only ones they might sneak in, and we've heard nothing about that so far. No idea when we can expect the Bretonnia free DLC (or the first paid DLC for that matter) but the roadmap here suggests we'll get a bunch of other free DLC first.  Bretonnia will be the one of the last free DLCs we get by this ordering (although presumably this is subject to change too).
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Jun 14, 2016 13:56
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For Bretonnia to work as a faction then the Wood Elves need to be a faction as well as a big part of Bretonnia is their relationship with the Wood Elves. With Wood Elves in the game Beastman have to be added at the same time as both a factional opponent to make fighting over the woods more interesting, but also a way to make the Chaos event more terrifying as Beastman would give Chaos an ally when it comes to burning the world down.
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Jun 14, 2016 13:58
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I would really love to see Total War flesh out Estalia, Tilea and Border Princes and Kislev since they don't really have too much fluff for them, but gently caress it Warhammer Fantasy doesn't exist anymore so they can pretty much go crazy.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:00
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Yeah but really how likely is it they release 3 of the playable factions at once. This game has a projected lifespan of like 5 years with the 2 expansions. We're getting 1 major faction at a time, maybe 2 if they tack on a free DLC like Bretonnia or Kislev along the way.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:01
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Hunt11 posted:For Bretonnia to work as a faction then the Wood Elves need to be a faction as well as a big part of Bretonnia is their relationship with the Wood Elves. With Wood Elves in the game Beastman have to be added at the same time as both a factional opponent to make fighting over the woods more interesting, but also a way to make the Chaos event more terrifying as Beastman would give Chaos an ally when it comes to burning the world down. You seem to be using words like "need" and "have to be" when what you actually mean is "it would be cool if". We're not gonna get three full factions at once as DLC.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:02
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Mazz posted:Yeah but really how likely is it they release 3 of the playable factions at once. This game has a projected lifespan of like 5 years with the 2 expansions. We're getting 1 major faction at a time, maybe 2 if they tack on a free DLC like Bretonnia or Kislev along the way. I thought it could be something like how in RTW:II they released the Greek City States as a DLC since Athens/Sparta/Epirus weren't that important in the Grand Campaign and I don't think any of those nations would need as much work as say Beastmen or Skaven since they are mostly human. Something like a "Minor Human Nation" DLC or something would suffice.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:05
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I don't think there's been any indication of Skaven in this first version of the game. I reckon they'll be included in Total Warhammer 2, but would like to be pleasantly surprised.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:17
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Jack2142 posted:I thought it could be something like how in RTW:II they released the Greek City States as a DLC since Athens/Sparta/Epirus weren't that important in the Grand Campaign and I don't think any of those nations would need as much work as say Beastmen or Skaven since they are mostly human. Something like a "Minor Human Nation" DLC or something would suffice. I'm not sure we can look at the other games DLC models too closely with Warhammer just because the dynamics are pretty different. Minor factions like TBP or Kislev still deserve more originality then Athens/Sparta IMO. Kislev might have a similar roster but the whole faction really deserves to be built as a Chaos fighting machine for example. They could do something really cool with Border Princes and make them empire but with the mercenary system from old games, which would be super easy to implement since raise dead is quite literally that system with some purple highlights for VC (it's even called merc in the game files). Giving them access to some dwarf/Orc/etc units as they move around the map would make them super interesting with very little work. My point is though there aren't a whole lot of "regional" DLC packs that work in Warhammer that don't up end being major expansions. Single factions sure, but big multi-faction packs are really unlikely IMO outside of the full expansions. EDIT: Also, while I really like the idea of the map within the map thing for forest factions, it'll be the first big dynamic change besides magic that hasn't been tested in the previous titles. I hope it doesn't suck. Mazz fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 14:23
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peer posted:You seem to be using words like "need" and "have to be" when what you actually mean is "it would be cool if". We're not gonna get three full factions at once as DLC. Of course not, but we're also not necessarily getting Brettonia first. Keep in mind, that the way CA handles DLC factions in their more recent games is that they get added to the map as NPC factions for everyone regardless, buying the DLC just makes them playable and gives you some extra LL/toys like the Chaos DLC does.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:40
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Jack2142 posted:I would really love to see Total War flesh out Estalia, Tilea and Border Princes and Kislev since they don't really have too much fluff for them, but gently caress it Warhammer Fantasy doesn't exist anymore so they can pretty much go crazy. They don't have much fluff because they're boring and extremely similar to other human factions in a land of crazy nonsense. Complete waste of time to develop them beyond a palette swap when there are still interesting factions to add.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:42
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I want the Ice Queen and Bear Cavalry.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:46
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Mazz posted:EDIT: Also, while I really like the idea of the map within the map thing for forest factions, it'll be the first big dynamic change besides magic that hasn't been tested in the previous titles. It kind of has been tested though, with Empire. Okay, that didn't have maps within maps exactly, but I'd imagine it'd work in a very similar way.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:47
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sassassin posted:They don't have much fluff because they're boring and extremely similar to other human factions in a land of crazy nonsense. Complete waste of time to develop them beyond a palette swap when there are still interesting factions to add. Yeah, Kislev is basically just the Empire but Russian. Its got like a couple of interesting differences but not enough to make a whole faction. Maybe they should have more regional specific units, like in Empire: Total War where if you were England then London made "Line Infantry", America made "Colonial Line Infantry", and Indian cities made "East India Company Infantry" etc.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:47
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That sounds cute but I don't really feel compelled to go back to having a dozen functional reskins of the same unit.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:49
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I think suggesting that CA is going to ignore the main factions for now and work on minor factions that don't have armybooks is contrary to all evidence. Those nutty russians found references to Beastmen, Wood Elves, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Ogres and Chaos Dwarves as dlc files, (though I expect at least four of those are earmarked for the first expansion) there's nothing in there about Kislev or Estalia and CA has repeatedly said they're not interested in tackling minor factions until they have all the major races in the game. Here's CA's response to the find, btw. quote:Good Spot guys! Which denies nothing, really.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:53
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Soon™!
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Kitchner posted:Yeah, Kislev is basically just the Empire but Russian. A couple my rear end. They have bear cavalry. That is a huge difference!   Also the Ungol's are straight up Genghis Khan knockoffs. Only loyal to Kislev instead of whatever horror comes out of the chaos wastes in any given week. There's like an entire border region between Kislev and the north filled with nothing but tribesmen that give not a single gently caress about Chaos's suicidal temper tantrum over not getting to ruin the world. Archonex fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 14:54
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Voyager I posted:That sounds cute but I don't really feel compelled to go back to having a dozen functional reskins of the same unit. I don't think it's needed either, I'm just saying that's the most I could see being worth it for the factions like Kislev. Oh look I can build bear cavalry (reskinned demigrpyhs with tweaked stats), and my dudes all wear fur. Done.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:55
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Bear cavalry have never been an official warhammer fantasy unit. I think a hero had a bear mount, maybe. But never whole units.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:58
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I mean, it's not that big of a stretch that they'd reskin some of the minor human factions at some point. Keep in mind that the game is so ridiculously detailed that it has one-off mentions of stuff in the novels. The Straghov fort from the Gotrek and Felix series is in as a capturable/razable location in Kislev for instance. sassassin posted:Bear cavalry have never been an official warhammer fantasy unit. I think a hero had a bear mount, maybe. But never whole units. It's a fan made one to fill out the army roster going off of the fluff. But that's because Games Workshop has issues and basically dumped what little support they had for the other human nations years ago. Hell, if you guys want to talk about poo poo that's probably never getting in then look at Cathay. A place that was basically "dark fantasy China" and had a huge rivalry with all sorts of other one-off nations in its area. It had an entirely different relationship with Chaos (And a whole bunch of really weird lores of magic that were never mentioned outside of a few stories.) due to how it manifested there. Which was totally a plot point that was never picked up on because holy gently caress GW is stupid at adding depth to their settings. quote:Cathay (also known as Imperial Cathay[1a], the Empire of the Celestial Dragon[8a], the Kingdom of the Dragon[8a], Grand Cathay[10a], Great Cathay[10d], Grand Empire of Cathay[11b] and the Celestial Empire[18b]) is a populous nation of humans located in the Far East of the world, beyond the Dark Lands and the Mountains of Mourn. To the north, with the Great Bastion as border, lie the Eastern Steppes and the Hung and Kurgan territories within the Chaos Wastes. To the east are the island realm of Nippon and the Far Sea, and beyond that the Boiling Sea and Naggaroth. To the south are the Kingdoms of Ind and the Hinterlands of Khuresh.[11a] We know that Skaven are probably going in at some point barring a change in DLC plans. They're even part of an event where they depopulate towns so hard that you lose growth in them for a turn while leaving their marks everywhere. Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 14:59
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Kitchner posted:Yeah, Kislev is basically just the Empire but Russian.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:02
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Crazy Russian modders are already on the case. Like, it has barely started, but you can bet your rear end we'll have a fully featured Kislev before any DLC faction. You can trust Putin's Russia to make sure talented people will have no prospects in their future and will have no better venue for their creative urges than to make exceedingly detailed videogame conversions. ZearothK fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 15:05
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Archonex posted:It's a fan made one to fill out the army roster going off of the fluff. But that's because Games Workshop has issues and basically dumped what little support they had for the other human nations years ago. That stuff was dropped because it was all horribly racist nonsense, and the only people who liked it ended up much happier buying into historical games. Dropping Fantasy Italy/Spain/Russia/China/loving "Nippon" is a good thing.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:06
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sassassin posted:Bear cavalry have never been an official warhammer fantasy unit. That doesn't mean CA couldn't put it in anyway. I mean, they do want their DLC to sell and I can't think of a better way to sell (theoretical) Kislev DLC than giving them bear cavalry.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:06
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peer posted:You seem to be using words like "need" and "have to be" when what you actually mean is "it would be cool if". We're not gonna get three full factions at once as DLC. I suppose that's what the expansions are for? What I'm not particularly eager for is official support for minor factions as a possible campaign, start mostly because I'd like CA to focus on making the major factions more eventfull. I would appreciate some extra units to make them distinct though. Possible with a merc DLC. What I'm more interested in would be more campaign features. As it stands we still have a paint the map game with one quest battle unlocked after the first province, then a few others that unlock items but are very weakly integrated in the campaign, a sort of quest to unlock the second LL and then a chaos invasion in two stages. What I'd like added here are a few more events on the campaign level that demand your attention. I'm thinking for example of something like the dug too deep event for the dwarves. Except instead of just getting a temporary debuff on one province you get a permanent one that only goes away once you fight a quest battle. Another one would be some call to help from some Empire faction that gives affinity bonus on completion. You could also add some time limit to some of those. That's also where I would go to give the player access to some of the minor units if they don't want to implement a merc system for them. Complete a quest, get a unit of bear cavalry. I refuse to accept the possibility that bear cavalry isn't a thing.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:08
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sassassin posted:That stuff was dropped because it was all horribly racist nonsense, and the only people who liked it ended up much happier buying into historical games. As opposed to "fantasy europe/HRE", "fantasy russia", and "fantasy Italy"? The latter of which has an in setting perception of being treacherous bastards? Like, uh, dude. I hate to break it to you but Games Workshop doesn't have much of a habit of not doing things because they might offend someone.  Edit: Never mind that Kislev is basically the stereotype of the stolid Russian cranked up to eleven. Hell, they're even basically Russia when the original ruling class was still in power. Only with a literal ice queen ruling them and regularly being forced to be the vanguard against the end of the world. As a side note you could probably do a full blown faction out of Kislev. They have a poo poo ton of content written about them, much like most of the western nations. It's just that Games Workshop never bothered to put official army lists out for them. Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 15:10
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Wafflecopper posted:That doesn't mean CA couldn't put it in anyway. I mean, they do want their DLC to sell and I can't think of a better way to sell (theoretical) Kislev DLC than giving them bear cavalry. Yeah, they could do a lot of work trying to flesh out a faction that has only minor cosmetic differences from an established faction that is already in the game. Bears... fur coats... ice magic... uh... Or they could focus on the dozen distinct and popular factions that aren't in the game yet.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:12
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Archonex posted:As opposed to "fantasy europe/HRE", "fantasy russia", and "fantasy Italy"? The latter of which has an in setting perception of being treacherous bastards? If you want to pretend that GW stopped developing them because they're evil or something that's up to you. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:16
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sassassin posted:If you want to pretend that GW stopped developing them because they're evil or something that's up to you. Whatever helps you sleep at night. No? You said that it was a good thing that they axed a bunch of barely fleshed out areas of the world. quote:That stuff was dropped because it was all horribly racist nonsense, and the only people who liked it ended up much happier buying into historical games. GW tends to be hyper focused on a few ideas and to hell with anyone that disagrees with them. That leads to poo poo like Age of Sigmar and their until recently steadfast refusal to license out their games in video game format. It's actually something of a flaw going by all reports coming from inside the company. And as said before if your reasoning is that they did it because of them being stereotypes then holy poo poo, you must not be very familiar with real world history or how the nations like the Empire and Kislev used to be. Every human nation in Warhammer basically started out as a stereotype of a real world nation at some point in their history with a bunch of fantasy and dark fantasy tropes applied to them. Expecting the less narratively developed nations to move past that point when Games Workshop dropped them early on is...Uh, yeah. Special. And that's not even really on topic to what I was trying to get across. My point was that if people are concerned about not getting certain well known factions then they shouldn't worry. Unless they change their originally stated DLC plan (Which would probably be a pretty terrible PR disaster.) they're most likely going to happen. It's the stuff that barely ever got any spotlight that's an issue on that front and probably won't happen until/if Total Warhammer 2 comes around and they need to start branching out into figuring out what the hell they're going to add now that they've added in most of the well known content. Edit: Also loving lol at people playing historical tabletop war games for poo poo like Cathay. IE: The land of crazy rear end kung-fu super soldiers that can cripple or kill people with a punch. Clearly I need to switch from taking self defense classes to whatever they learned back then. Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 15:22
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sassassin posted:If you want to pretend that GW stopped developing them because they're evil or something that's up to you. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Do you think? I don't mean before you speak, I mean in general.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:26
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Another neat tactics video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubTvOsTI88s Also regarding Kislev and Bear Cavalry: in my opinion there's enough effort put into Kislev already that a unit pack is likely. You'd have to pull from some unorthodox sources like Warmaster and Mordheim but there's enough units to build a decent roster based around skirmishing infantry that can swap between melee and ranged, and some great mobile cavalry, with a magic that outdoes the Lore of Light in terms of battlefield control. And while Bear Cavalry was never officially released you still have packs of war-bears driven by Bear Priests of Ursun that ride bears, which is even more awesome in my opinion. Still hoping the Norse get fluffed out a little too, replacing the hellsteeds and chariots with the werewulfs, werebears, and huscarls they get in sources where they're independent of Chaos.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:27
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I mean it's academic anyways. They're not putting those nations in this time. And Kislev and the other factions will get modded out with unique looks once people figure out how it's possible. Heck, people have already added in Mousillon with it's appropriate look so that no other undead faction has their appearance. Which is the Bretonnian version of the undead and vampires. The only problem with doing it apparently is that the guy can't figure out how to handle generic lords and heroes. Since it sounds like they're set up to be universal to each faction. Reskinning them might be a problem if there isn't a way to get around that. Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 15:27
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All the human nations were and are garbage apart from the over-the-top Arthurian legends faction and at a push the general purpose humans faction. I'm glad they're dead and GW spent time and money developing outlandish creature factions with distinct abilities and playstyles.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:28
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sassassin posted:All the human nations were and are garbage apart from the over-the-top Arthurian legends faction and at a push the general purpose humans faction. I'm glad they're dead and GW spent time and money developing outlandish creature factions with distinct abilities and playstyles. you're weird
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Jun 14, 2016 15:30
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The way Kislev has distinct tags for some of their buildings and lords that no other faction besides the Border Princes does tells me they have at least some plans. None of the middle Empire factions are in any way different from the actual empire in the files, yet Kislev and the Border Princes are. Also, on that DLC roadmap, one of the packs on the bottom is basically "new lord, new school or magic, couple unique/named units". That fits Kislev pretty well. Tell will tell I guess. I really, really hope the Border Princes, should they come out, aren't just realigned empire with some different lord buffs. That's such a waste since they could totally be unique with mercs like Carthage was.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:30
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