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The Lord Bude posted:This resurgence in WoT chat makes me realize I haven't touched WoT since AMOL came out. It's high time I read it again. I honestly, truly really like the audiobooks. Especially for my commutes so I can tune out the dress smoothing and such.
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Jun 14, 2016 02:34
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silvergoose posted:I honestly, truly really like the audiobooks. Especially for my commutes so I can tune out the dress smoothing and such. I've tried to listen to audio books in the past but I just can't. It's just too weird for me, and they take so long. The average audiobook of a WoT novel is dozens of hours long, is it not? I can read a novel the length of a typical WoT book in about 10 hours on average. Maybe if they did what Tamora Pierce does with her novels and hired a full cast of voice actors to make it into a sort of audio play, it would be worth while but otherwise I'd rather just read it.
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Jun 14, 2016 06:06
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The Lord Bude posted:I've tried to listen to audio books in the past but I just can't. It's just too weird for me, and they take so long. The average audiobook of a WoT novel is dozens of hours long, is it not? I can read a novel the length of a typical WoT book in about 10 hours on average. Yes it is. They have two voice actors, one guy one girl, and yeah the entire point is I can sub to audible for $15 (or less with dealz) and get one and hey presto, 30 hours of mindless commuting that makes me not want to murder everyone else on the road. I now have the whole series and will probably restart it pretty soon. Really it's the don't-want-to-murder-everyone-driving thing that makes it worth it.
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Jun 14, 2016 12:56
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silvergoose posted:Yes it is. I just use Barry Manilow for that...
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Jun 14, 2016 13:20
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silvergoose posted:Yes it is. Can confirm that this is a good approach; the Martin Shaw reading of the Silmarillion got me through years of White Plains traffic. I would say it's not a good way to do a first-time read, though. I would have no chance in hell of following the names and places and so on if I had to go by pronunciation. (The "Kreacher" pun in Harry Potter was completely lost on my for that reason)
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Jun 14, 2016 13:30
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Nihilarian posted:Rand never becomes anything resembling a competent general and he leaves most of the military poo poo up to his military people, he even mentions that it all sounds like gibberish to him. Being the chosen one sucks and drives him loving insane, literally, and whatever good his "do everything myself" approach did is offset by the times he failed or made things worse. At no point in the story are you supposed to be going "hm, Rand's bitterness, paranoia and rage make him a good leader, I'm glad he's already ready to fight Satan". He's barely human by the time he has his epiphany and is brought back from the brink of cracking the world like an egg and it's posited a few times that if he'd actually beat the Dark One in that state things might have gotten worse. Very much this. The entire Borderlander subplot is that its more important for the best armed forces on the continent at that point die trying to kill him if he's still messed up in the head, because the Dark One isn't going to kill the world despite what the Dark One promised Ishamael/Moridin. He won't actually destroy the world, he'll just make it lovely to live in for a few thousand years. Rand absolutely will destroy the world, and almost does on Dragonmount. I 100% get it if you don't want to reread fourteen freakin' books Data Graham, but there's a reason that so many people talk about their perceptions totally changing on a reread, because while RJ's prose is voluminous and meandering and his attempts at classical-Epic epithets (i.e. white-armed Athena) sniffing-skirt-smoothing-hard-eyed-faces-chiseled-from-stone come off less as epithets and more as idiosyncrasies, he's actually really really subtle and good about playing with subjectivity in ways that make the overall product greater than the sum of its parts when you see how delicately the whole thing is constructed. Like, on my most recent (and probably final) read of the series leading up to when AMoL was released, it really struck me that Rand was batshit crazy by the beginning of Lord of Chaos. Not stressed out and paranoid like in Dragon Reborn. Not occasionally loopy and forgetting where he is like Fires of Heaven. balls to the wall, extended-conversations-with-imaginary-people loving loving loving crazy. Only the shittiest and most vulnerable courtiers in Caemlyn and Cairhien will work with him because he's an unhinged crazyman who just exploded half the palace and inadvertently set off the Edwardian Syrian Civil War before ending it with an army of that nation's nemeses respectively, which fuels his delusions and furthers his isolation and loathing and scorn. Occasionally Min or Bashere or even Taim will get through to him in their respective ways which are all interesting in their own right, but until the epiphany on Dragonmount Rand is mostly isolating himself and making himself crazier and crazier and the more people try to get through to him the worse it makes him. Reread some of Mat's PoV of Rand, Rand is not well! He rants and raves and vacillates between morose and fatalistic and vague and delusional and Moiraine puts up with it because she has a mystical facade to maintain, and Perrin puts up with it because he's a big softie, and many nobles put up with it because he's the doomed prophet and they're just assuming this comes with the end-of-days territory, and Egwene uses him as practice for negotiation (this does not work well) but Mat has no patience for that poo poo at all which is a neat little detail. Faile too, actually. You say in this series "anyone can be Napoleon" but... can they?! Be'lal--a 3000 year old foppish wine snob--would've Rand dead to rights if it wasn't for Nynaeve and Rand spends the next two books procrastinating the invasion of Illian because Sammael is the only Forsaken Rand knows the location of by that point and Sammael is an Actual General where Rand is relying on an insane voice in his head telling him how to wizard less badly. The whole time every single Actual General in Rand's employ is screaming at him "WHY ARE WE SITTING HERE, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY SUPPLIES THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND SOLIDERS USE EVERY DAY JUST SITTING HERE?!" And Rand retreats into his vague "plans plans plans" schtick because he is actually bullshitting! His PoV is unreliable and he is terrified! It's not until Min gets through to him (well, fucks him, but it works through a knot of "I'm terrible for the people I love/Everything I touch turns to poo poo so lets drive away everyone I love/I don't get to feel anything good in this lifetime so lets get it over with already) which brings him to his senses long enough for him to execute the actual plan which was: jump into Illian and shank Sammael which is the only thing Rand actually does as good or better than anyone else!!! And the kicker--the twist of lime that makes it all go down smooth--is as a "distraction" you have these two massive, overdeveloped armies staring at each other for two books (hey, two male channeler tyrants diverting all the resources in their kingdoms to armies which ultimately do nothing? Rand... is acting like Sammael?! OH SHI) and they spend less than an afternoon fighting each other, because once Sammael is dead the Council of Illian comes to Rand and says "oh man, you killed that creepy crazy guy? Thank you!!" and then they hand him the only legitimate crown Rand ever earns in the series not because he invaded Illian, but because he offhandedly began food and aid deliveries to Illian while ranting and raving at the Lords of Tear in TSR and then spent so much time talking to the voices in his head he actually forgot about it and got so crazy about PLANS PLANS PLANS I HAVE A PLAN IM PLAYING CHESS NOT CHECKERS HERE that even his generals were too spooked to point out to him that he's wasting supplies on the army and wasting supplies sending them to the guy he was going to invade! Rand is not Napoleon! He's Ban Ki Moon in desperate need of a Seroquel. Rand is not a rational actor and at no point does he do anything but grimace and nod when the actual professionals make the battle plans. By LoC Rand is certainly not sympathetic and you say you understand this but I really don't think you do! Data Graham posted:No seriously, I don't mean to say I didn't get that Rand was loving up his grand planning and grander execution of everything; that's all pretty obvious. Yet even so, what you see is a guy who you'd see on a list of famous fictional people on the ENTJ page of some pop-psychology website, along with other flawed and hated and forcefully charismatic figures like Napoleon and Trump and Jobs. People who can take one look at the world and pronounce judgment and start issuing orders for how to bring about their vision; whether those orders are stupid or not, that's kind of beside the point. These aren't people who nurture or who follow or who build communities. They're people who command. Your friend sounds like a prickish person who also lacks basic literacy and you've done this thing a couple of times now where you list things that WoT explicitly and repeatedly and often critiques and go "man, it would be nice if WoT addressed this" and I think it's because you're in denial that your "friend" is a garbage man who has garbage thoughts and belongs in the garbage, stinking and crying as the world passes him by, and he induced you to hate-read WoT as what *he* thinks it is and not read-read WoT as a text of words on a page which you'd enjoy much more, I think. There's a pretty good pulp fantasy series out there that deals a lot with people who think they're acting rationally for reasons they're convinced are sane even though many people around them point out that that's not true, and I am actually, earnestly suggesting you reread it :iamafag: Data Graham posted:Well I mean, everyone except Rand comes out of it pretty well self-actualized, right? Actually most everyone except Rand comes out of it dead or maimed in the final battle, and even Rand has a big ol' asterisk on his condition. Shortly after the protagonist transmogrifies into the Buddha of Compassion. I'm sure there's no larger meaning whatsoever to wiping out 2/3rds of a massive and baroque cast in the cataclysmic fight to save the world after that moment in the plot. Willie Tomg fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 15:38
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Willie Tomg posted:Your friend sounds like a prickish person who also lacks basic literacy and you've done this thing a couple of times now where you list things that WoT explicitly and repeatedly and often critiques and go "man, it would be nice if WoT addressed this" and I think it's because you're in denial that your "friend" is a garbage man who has garbage thoughts and belongs in the garbage, stinking and crying as the world passes him by, and he induced you to hate-read WoT as what *he* thinks it is and not read-read WoT as a text of words on a page which you'd enjoy much more, I think. Well, fair enough. I certainly didn't come at it with pure intentions, I'm more about the comedy aspect of it and "lol braid tugging" is more fun (or seemed to be at the time) than getting super serious about analysis. Plus my personal goal was to have read it rather than to actually read it, for the moral high ground aspect. He told me at the outset that the reason I should read it was to get a better understanding of character development, as a general concept, because I suck at it. I was really hoping to find out he was full of poo poo, but yeah, it was probably me
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Jun 14, 2016 16:26
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What RJ did masterfully, as Willie Tomg sort of illustrates, was the close third PoV. It's entirely possible to read Rand's chapters and think he is just responding rationally, if aggressively, to the insanity of the world. It is not until you take a moment and step back and try to look at Rand from someone elses PoV that you realize that Rand is really unhinged.
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Jun 14, 2016 16:45
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Data Graham posted:Well, fair enough. I certainly didn't come at it with pure intentions, I'm more about the comedy aspect of it and "lol braid tugging" is more fun (or seemed to be at the time) than getting super serious about analysis. Plus my personal goal was to have read it rather than to actually read it, for the moral high ground aspect. That's fair enough. If you get enjoyment out of the excessive braid tugging, then more power to you. My shameful secret is that I sometimes read certain parts of the Sword of Truth books because I actually enjoy them, when it's not a lesson in Objectivism or Goodkind's BDSM/rape fantasies. I read WoT for a lot of reasons, but sometimes I'm just amused by Jordan's writing. Little things like the chapter in Crown of Swords where the Supergirls decide to use Mat's chance-altering superpower to find the Bowl of Winds and send Birgitte to get him. In Nynaeve's PoV, she is constantly thinking "thank god we sent Birgitte and not Thom and Juilin, they would just get drunk with him and couldn't do anything right anyway". Then Birgitte comes back and beats them over their head with how lovely they treated Mat in book 3, making Aviendha convince Elayne that they need to apologize. Nynaeve is appalled, and her very last thought in this chapter is "She had known that they should have sent Thom and Juilin". It's so in-character for Nynaeve at that moment, I really had to grin at the absurdity. It's a little thing, but scenes like this pop up from time to time and I just enjoy them.
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Jun 14, 2016 16:53
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It's kind of funny that WoT is right on the line where you can legitimately read and respect it for its real technical merit and also simultaneously hate-read it for all the things it does terribly.
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Jun 14, 2016 17:56
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's kind of funny that WoT is right on the line where you can legitimately read and respect it for its real technical merit and also simultaneously hate-read it for all the things it does terribly. It's 4.2 million words. There's room there for a lot of different interpretations. Which also works against it - it's hard to get the significance of half the stuff going on when Lord of the Rings could fit comfortably between key events.
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Jun 14, 2016 20:53
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One question I have—Willie Tomg posted:Like, on my most recent (and probably final) read of the series leading up to when AMoL was released, it really struck me that Rand was batshit crazy by the beginning of Lord of Chaos. Not stressed out and paranoid like in Dragon Reborn. Not occasionally loopy and forgetting where he is like Fires of Heaven. balls to the wall, extended-conversations-with-imaginary-people loving loving loving crazy. Everybody kept telling me along the way that Rand is going crazy, including sources in the text and Rand himself; but I wasn't ever sure how seriously to take that. I mean, if the evidence for him being crazy is "talking to Lews Therin", well, I thought he actually was? Are we supposed to interpret his talking to LTT as actual schizophrenia? Because I thought the whole take-home from all that was that he was doing things and knowing things that he simply wouldn't have been able to if the LTT in his head weren't real.
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Jun 15, 2016 01:33
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No, his wild mood swings, erratic behavior, etc were meant to convey that.
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Jun 15, 2016 01:37
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The LTT in his head may or may not be real. When they captured the Forsaken lady who likes to torture people she brings it up to try to undermine him and Min gets really worried and all Rand can do is cop to it. Even on Dragonmount there's hints that the voice was never real. Rand may have had access to past knowledge just by virtue of being the Dragon Reborn, similar to the memories in Mat's head maybe. He may also have just been making good guesses, inferring things from prophecy, or extrapolating from any of the dozens of books he was reading throughout the series. It's not like wasn't actively educating himself and didn't have access to all the obscure books in random private collections in the world. Doing things like whistling at pretty ladies because LTT did may just have been him going crazy and developing new ticks and blaming them on LTT bleeding through. We have no way to know if LTT really did that or not. But Rand could certainly attribute it to him. As for new weaves, he was discovering things all the time in moments of pressure. When he discovered Bale Fire or Skimming, he didn't attribute it to LTT, but later when he makes a palace blow up or uses Death Gates, he says they're from LTT. It doesn't seem they have to be, especially since the Wonder Girls were also discovering or creating weaves under similar circumstances. It's also possible that the voice was real and was a symptom of madness, but I doubt we'll ever know for sure.
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Jun 15, 2016 02:46
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My take is is that as the Dragon, Rand was slowly gaining access to his past memories, but because he was insane, instead of them naturally integrating themselves like with Matt, they manifested as a second personality in his head.
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Jun 15, 2016 03:26
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Data Graham posted:
To really see how crazy Rand gets you have to focus on the passages that arent' from Rand's perspective, or focus on how other people are reacting to Rand's behavior. Probably the first real "ok, he's BUGFUCK" is when he sword-murders a whole caravan out of nowhere just because they camp by him on the road in the middle of Great Hunt, then lines up all their corpses in kneeling positions because he's the Lord Dragon. Of course, it turns out one of them was a Gray Man, so he was (accidentally?) right, maybe? There's lots more like that throughout the series. Constantly muttering the names of hundreds of dead women, obsessively; trying to become super emotionally detached; constant suicidal thoughts; etc. Basically he's going crazy in several different directions at once, partly from the Taint (Lews Therin, etc.) and partly just from the incredible stress he's under.
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Jun 15, 2016 03:31
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:To really see how crazy Rand gets you have to focus on the passages that arent' from Rand's perspective, or focus on how other people are reacting to Rand's behavior. The Dragon Reborn posted:
That's going to be a super  moment for people if the TV show does it (or hopefully attempts to do it well). Dude was crazy and not supposed to seem like a wonderful hero at the time. He was trying to do good things but uhh...certainly didn't always turn out that way.
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Jun 15, 2016 04:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:To really see how crazy Rand gets you have to focus on the passages that arent' from Rand's perspective, or focus on how other people are reacting to Rand's behavior. Don't forget the part where I think Taim brings him one of the seals and Rand jumps to his feet and goes to smash it on the ground while screaming at the top of his lungs. I'm pretty sure that's in LoC
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Jun 15, 2016 04:59
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Probably the first real "ok, he's BUGFUCK" is when he sword-murders a whole caravan out of nowhere just because they camp by him on the road in the middle of Great Hunt, then lines up all their corpses in kneeling positions because he's the Lord Dragon. Of course, it turns out one of them was a Gray Man, so he was (accidentally?) right, maybe? This is one of my favorite bits in the entire series. It's framed in a way that makes him look like he's gone bugfuck, but the presence of the Gray Man casts a bit of doubt on that. Are you really paranoid when everybody actually is out to get you?
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Jun 15, 2016 05:07
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Khizan posted:This is one of my favorite bits in the entire series. It's framed in a way that makes him look like he's gone bugfuck, but the presence of the Gray Man casts a bit of doubt on that. Are you really paranoid when everybody actually is out to get you? And as another layer, it's established that Rand can sense shadowspawn and far-gone Darkfriends, but that he'd have difficulty doing so because of the Taint. So maybe just maybe he was unconsciously reacting to that sense -- but then why make them all kneel?
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Jun 15, 2016 05:32
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Two Finger posted:Don't forget the part where I think Taim brings him one of the seals and Rand jumps to his feet and goes to smash it on the ground while screaming at the top of his lungs. I'm pretty sure that's in LoC LoC 2 posted:Three broken. Three in his possession. Where was the seventh? Only four seals stood between humankind and the Dark One. Four, if the last was still whole. Only four, standing between humankind and the Last Battle. How well did they still hold, weakened as they were?
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Jun 15, 2016 05:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:And as another layer, it's established that Rand can sense shadowspawn and far-gone Darkfriends, but that he'd have difficulty doing so because of the Taint. So maybe just maybe he was unconsciously reacting to that sense -- but then why make them all kneel? I especially love the kneeling because it lets you know that he's definitely at least a little bit crazy. How crazy might be up for debate but he's definitely at least a little bit off balance.
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Jun 15, 2016 08:45
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silvergoose posted:No, his wild mood swings, erratic behavior, etc were meant to convey that. I see. I guess that's a source of my confusion then; because all of it seemed to have a justification, either internally (LTT basically being right about everything) or externally (the gray man among the travelers) imposed, all that behavior came across less to me like "crazy man going crazy" and more like "type-A personality getting the poo poo done that nobody else can see is important". Like of course it'll look nuts to other people, but that's because they're all blind. But then that's what a crazy person would think
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Jun 15, 2016 12:24
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Data Graham posted:I see. I guess that's a source of my confusion then; because all of it seemed to have a justification, either internally (LTT basically being right about everything) or externally (the gray man among the travelers) imposed, all that behavior came across less to me like "crazy man going crazy" and more like "type-A personality getting the poo poo done that nobody else can see is important". Read Cadsuane's first meeting with Rand again (Crown of Swords, chapter 18). I will even bother to write it out here (for all that I love "real" books, this is a time were the e-books would be nice to have): quote:(Rand):"What do you want? Answer, or leave. By the door or a window; your choice." Nearly uncontrollable rage, check. quote:(Cadsuane)"It is part of the madness. Voices conversing with them, telling them what to do." The teapot drifted gently to the floor by her feet. "Have you heard any?" That last part doesn't sound sane at all. quote:Cadsuane sighed. "You are a young man who has little idea where he is going or why, or what lies ahead. You seem overwrought. Perhaps we can speak when you are more settled. Have you any objection to my taking Merana and Annoura away for a little while? I've seen neither in quite some time. The reaction of the others should be noted. quote:"I am not mad," he said to the empty room. Lews Therin had told him things; he would never have escaped Galina's chest without the dead man's voice. But he had used the Power before he ever heard the voice; he had figured out how to call lightning and hurl fire and form a construct that had killed hundreds of Trollocs. But then, maybe that had been Lews Therin, like those memories of climbing trees in a plum orchard, and entering the Hall of the Servants, and a dozen more that crept up on him unawares. And maybe those memories were all fancies, mad dreams of a mad mind, just like the voice. How can this be the inner monologue of a sane person?
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Jun 15, 2016 14:08
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Torrannor posted:Nearly uncontrollable rage, check. I... guess? I mean I can certainly see him interpreting that as a threat, and the whole situation looking like everybody ganging up on him and all his suspicions about Aes Sedai coming true. Uncontrollable rage borne from madness ought to involve more non-sequiturs, I'd think. This just sounds like he's justifiably pissed. This happens all the time in real life. Or maybe I just know a lot of insane people quote:How can this be the inner monologue of a sane person? Sounds to me like he's just trying to make logical sense of the information he has available to him. How else would I react in this situation? Do I put my foot down and say "this voice in my head is a delusion", no matter what evidence I have that it isn't? If I remember that I do have evidence that it's real, do I dismiss it? What does a sane man do in this situation, in a universe in which LTT is known to be a real thing that can exist in a person's head? BTW since I have all the ebooks, please feel free to request quotes, I'll be happy to c/p.
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Jun 15, 2016 14:23
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Yeah you have to take into account that Cadsuane was going out of her way to get a rise out of him and keep him off-balance. He's still pretty insane by that point though.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:04
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Data Graham posted:in a universe in which LTT is known to be a real thing that can exist in a person's head? Eh.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:43
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Data Graham posted:I... guess? I mean I can certainly see him interpreting that as a threat, and the whole situation looking like everybody ganging up on him and all his suspicions about Aes Sedai coming true. This is literally happening. He meets Cadsuane after Dumai's Wells, after being kidnapped and beaten repeatedly by Aes Sedai. He is also crazy. It is both. There is a reason Cadsuane is not involved directly with the White Tower, she thinks they hosed up colossally. Data Graham posted:What does a sane man do in this situation, in a universe in which LTT is known to be a real thing that can exist in a person's head? It's not precisely that. We don't actually know if voices of past lives can exist in people's heads. The only confirmation comes from Semirhage, who, regardless of honesty, was saying it just to mess with Rand. The problem is that the voice knows real actionable information. It is literally the best magic user alive, and has intimate knowledge of numbers 2-14. It is far too useful to let go of. Blind Melon fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 15:44
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Data Graham posted:This happens all the time in real life. People regularly smash things and devolve into screaming threats while someone talks calmly, if brusquely, to them? Because that shouldn't be normal.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:47
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Yeah, I interpreted it as "rear end in a top hat" rather than "insane".
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Jun 15, 2016 15:49
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Been thinking about the series, did Jordan set up the reveal on Dragonmount in The Great Hunt when Rand sees that he never gives into the Dark One in countless lives?
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Jun 15, 2016 15:54
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Been thinking about the series, did Jordan set up the reveal on Dragonmount in The Great Hunt when Rand sees that he never gives into the Dark One in countless lives? I know he set it up in other phrophecies/visions that Min had earlier. I'd like to know if that was a scene that was 100% Jordan, 100% Sanderson, or a mix. I could very much see it being all Jordan, as he did write a lot of the big things that he had been setting up for 10 books or so.
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Jun 15, 2016 16:16
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One question, why do I see so many people moan about "Rand al'Thor" as a bad name? Is there some special significance/cultural baggage in English that I'm unaware of? Is it difficult to pronounce? To me as a German, it's simply a run-of-the-mill made-up fantasy name.  Also, I never realized that Bryne spanks Siuan until just now when I looked up something and found a feminist critique of WoT. I always thought it was just Faile, Joline and Semirhage. Are there others I missed? Was Jordan's spanking fetish bigger than I thought? 
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Jun 15, 2016 17:06
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Torrannor posted:One question, why do I see so many people moan about "Rand al'Thor" as a bad name? Is there some special significance/cultural baggage in English that I'm unaware of? Is it difficult to pronounce? To me as a German, it's simply a run-of-the-mill made-up fantasy name. Lots of people despise any use of apostrophes in names without caring what the name actually is.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:11
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:I know he set it up in other phrophecies/visions that Min had earlier. I'd like to know if that was a scene that was 100% Jordan, 100% Sanderson, or a mix. I could very much see it being all Jordan, as he did write a lot of the big things that he had been setting up for 10 books or so. Is there any kind of insight anywhere into which parts of the final three were by Jordan, and how far along they were? I found myself looking for the abrupt tone break in the Epilogue, but couldn't really find it. Clearly most of the Epilogue was new stuff, because it's full of Sanderson constructs like "the body in his arms was so heavy"
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Jun 15, 2016 17:25
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Data Graham posted:Is there any kind of insight anywhere into which parts of the final three were by Jordan, and how far along they were? The epilogue of AMOL? I thought that was 100% Jordan.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:28
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Torrannor posted:Also, I never realized that Bryne spanks Siuan until just now when I looked up something and found a feminist critique of WoT. I always thought it was just Faile, Joline and Semirhage. Are there others I missed? Was Jordan's spanking fetish bigger than I thought? Remember that time Egwene got spanked by half the White Tower
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Jun 15, 2016 18:41
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Data Graham posted:Is there any kind of insight anywhere into which parts of the final three were by Jordan, and how far along they were? aegof posted:Remember that time Egwene got spanked by half the White Tower
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Jun 15, 2016 18:44
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aegof posted:Remember that time Egwene got spanked by half the White Tower I can't recall that at all, but I now remember that most of the Wise Ones spanked her when she revealed that she was not a full Aes Sedai. I must have simply suppressed that memory. It really is worse than I thought 
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Jun 15, 2016 18:45
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Talking to your past lives is 100% not a thing sane people do in AWOT You can talk to dead people, so long as you go to Dead People Land, so that's fine. But LTT isn't dead, he is Rand Al'Thor. He is talking to himself. It's exactly as reasonable as Rand having a one sided conversation with Jesus while his court looks on.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:47
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