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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:To be perfectly honest, I think the no fly list thing is a political tactic and not an honest policy proposal. It's a way of appealing to more moderate people who might not be inclined to support gun control just because Democrats propose it, by saying "THEY WON'T EVEN CONSIDER THIS THING!" That might be true, but they shouldn't even be considering the thing, so I still don't like it.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:28
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Goatman Sacks posted:Is it too early/am I being to hopeful or are the wheels really coming off the Trump Train finally? It's like the media finally woke up after he called them all in on a Saturday to call them all pieces of poo poo Its a long road but its a really bad sign for Trump that he can't seem to gain his footing and almost every other Republican still openly resists coming to his defense. Its hard to see this all coming together for the Convention in a month and its bad if the narrative coming out of that is how many Republicans aren't there because they refuse to stand with Trump and how divided the party is. Like, Hillary has to worry about Bernie getting on board, and signs seem to be pointing to him doing it. Trump needs to worry about almost everyone getting on board and right now half of them are pretending they don't know who Donald Trump is.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:29
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Goatman Sacks posted:I get that, but it seems like stuff that should have sunk his campaign a year ago (McCain isn't a hero! Mexicans are sending rapists here! etc) are finally starting to dent his numbers instead of improve them. Let's say it looks really bad that GOP officials are wearing ghille suits and using duck blinds to avoid reporters while HRC and Obama do simultaneous owns on him for five months. Here's Bob Corker one of the first and few elected official Trump say-ok-things-abouters and someone that often has his name floated as a possible VP pick on yesterday's speech: https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/742767516943024129
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Jun 14, 2016 18:30
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Can someone let me know when this thread isn't a tire fire anymore?
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Jun 14, 2016 18:30
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The no-fly list has a great deal of support from 1) people who don't know what it actually entails and assume it's only aimed at terrorists with at least two suicide bombings on their record and 2) soft racists who may not know the fourteen words but do fear and hate "Arabs". So this maneuver, like the Republican ones about being soft on crime, is about putting conservatives in a no-win situation where they lose credibility with Middle America no matter what they do.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:31
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Necc0 posted:Can someone let me know when this thread isn't a tire fire anymore? Bad news, But why not contribute to try and make it better instead of huffing about how bad it nebulously is?
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Jun 14, 2016 18:31
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Necc0 posted:Can someone let me know when this thread isn't a tire fire anymore? Come back in 5 months.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:31
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ComradeCosmobot posted:the deadliest mass shootings in American history have been caused by an assault weapon -> banning assault weapons would be dumb and ineffective You don't know what the ban restricted, do you.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:32
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Brainiac Five posted:The no-fly list has a great deal of support from 1) people who don't know what it actually entails and assume it's only aimed at terrorists with at least two suicide bombings on their record and 2) soft racists who may not know the fourteen words but do fear and hate "Arabs". So this maneuver, like the Republican ones about being soft on crime, is about putting conservatives in a no-win situation where they lose credibility with Middle America no matter what they do. Bingo
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Jun 14, 2016 18:32
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I don't mean to backseat mod but is there any way gun chat could be sequestered in some other thread? Please?
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Jun 14, 2016 18:32
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Von Sloneker posted:What is 1079? They said shooter is 1079 and may have said he's down. 1079 is usually notify coroner.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:36
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SedanChair posted:You don't know what the ban restricted, do you. if he did, do you think he'd advocate to do the exact same thing again? "reinstate the awb" doesn't inherently mean "do all the stupid poo poo the same exact way again"
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Jun 14, 2016 18:36
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I honestly have very little sympathy with the idea that gun ownership restrictions based on the no-fly list are an extrajudicial violation of rights. Maybe people who oppose any and all gun control legislation should have thought of that first before blocking anything and everything else that could have been done. And yeah, that's a vindictive, spiteful way to look at it. But I think I'm not the only one who's tired of literally nothing being done.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:36
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I don't mean to backseat mod but is there any way gun chat could be sequestered in some other thread? Please? It's been tried before, and never goes well. It's best to just leave it in the other threads and just wait for other stuff to drown it out.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:37
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I think you can make a case that people suspected of terrorist links should be under higher scrutiny without it being racist, particularly if you include or embed the idea that the "no fly list" shouldn't just be de jure racism, but should include people like Cliven Bundy. This is where I'm sitting on the whole thing. There's no practical reason that it shouldn't target all threats to national security. Hell, I'd add domestic abusers and sex offenders to it as well. Again though, the list should be transparent, challengable and as free from political influence as possible....we're screwed.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:37
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Samantha Bee Asks the Right Questions About Orlandoquote:...she groaned at a particular line from Florida Senator Marco Rubio, who said, “This could have happened anywhere in the world. Unfortunately, today was Orlando’s turn.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t88X1pYQu-I quote:Please send the NRA a plague of boils. Amen.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:38
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Brainiac Five posted:The no-fly list has a great deal of support from 1) people who don't know what it actually entails and assume it's only aimed at terrorists with at least two suicide bombings on their record and 2) soft racists who may not know the fourteen words but do fear and hate "Arabs". So this maneuver, like the Republican ones about being soft on crime, is about putting conservatives in a no-win situation where they lose credibility with Middle America no matter what they do. Yes, it's Obama and Clinton playing mind games with republicans  The democratic party couldn't possibly be sinking the level that liberals complain about, and there is no harm at all in the current sitting democratic president and the democratic presumptive nominee vocally supporting using extra-judicial lists based on no actual criminal convictions to take away a US citizen's rights.gently caress this liberal mindset, and thank god there are other goons who see through this bullshit.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:38
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Radish posted:Aren't most of these shooters not even on these no-fly FBI watch lists? Even discounting the troubling issue of having people blocked from stuff based entirely on suspicion it doesn't even seem like a good way to actually stop shooters. It MAY have worked on this guy but that seems like it would have been luck more than anything else as he didn't actually have any terrorist ties and was just a dumbass. How about we use the watch list but instead of banning the sale of guns we will also prosecute the gun seller for any crimes committed with those guns by the person who was on the list. Sounds like the true free market solution. If they want to take the risk, they get their reward.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:39
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http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/law_enforcement_may_arrest_and_charge_orlando_terrorist_s_wife FBI may be arresting the Pulse shooter's wife.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:39
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gradenko_2000 posted:I honestly have very little sympathy with the idea that gun ownership restrictions based on the no-fly list are an extrajudicial violation of rights. Maybe people who oppose any and all gun control legislation should have thought of that first before blocking anything and everything else that could have been done. I'm legit curious what your political philosophy is like. I support gun rights, but even if I didn't, I see extrajudicial punishments like the no-fly list as opposed to liberalism and I'm against them regardless.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:42
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Yes, it's Obama and Clinton playing mind games with republicans There's a difference in putting them under higher scrutiny and "taking away their rights," which the court system has firmly continued to support. Maybe if you didn't resort to histrionics on a regular basis and made salient point beyond screaming and name calling, you could make an argument for why a no-fly list is a bad idea?
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Jun 14, 2016 18:43
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Mr Hootington posted:pages back, but glad you didn't get physically harmed zelder. Next time scream fire. People coming running. thank you, i appeciate it man. and eh i thought about it for a split second but the gun in my ribs was like "nah"
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Jun 14, 2016 18:43
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Wakko posted:I'm legit curious what your political philosophy is like. I support gun rights, but even if I didn't, I see extrajudicial punishments like the no-fly list as opposed to liberalism and am against them regardless. Rationally I know you're correct, of course. But in the moment I am just really quite angry and I don't begrudge Obama taking whatever steps are available to him for lack of any other option available within the legislative framework. Maybe even tomorrow I'll agree with you again. Today not so much.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:44
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SedanChair posted:You don't know what the ban restricted, do you. Among other things, it explicitly banned the AR-15, which is the rifle in question. Also, if the criteria are truly "cosmetic" it shouldn't matter if they are banned, because you should still be able to acquire an equivalently effective gun without those cosmetic features. So remind me why it's so important to have these features?
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Jun 14, 2016 18:44
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https://twitter.com/AmarilloPD/status/742774363145932800 There you go.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:46
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And he was shot with A GUN. lol think your way out of this one libtards!
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Jun 14, 2016 18:47
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Zelder posted:thank you, i appeciate it man. and eh i thought about it for a split second but the gun in my ribs was like "nah" Shouting "FIRE!" when someone has a gun on you might not be the best idea.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:48
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Ban gun sales to the no fly list, get the NRA to lobby for eliminating the list, score one for liberals.  Edit: Is it possible Trump won't be able to find somebody willing to be his VP candidate?
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Jun 14, 2016 18:48
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MariusLecter posted:And he was shot with A GUN. lol think your way out of this one libtards! Well since he had a gun it didn't look like it made him much safer. Check and mate.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:48
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Among other things, it explicitly banned the AR-15, which is the rifle in question. If it's cosmetic, then the ban serves zero purpose other than making people who don't understand how guns work feel better that their politicians have gotten "something done."
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Jun 14, 2016 18:49
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:There's a difference in putting them under higher scrutiny and "taking away their rights," which the court system has firmly continued to support. Maybe if you didn't resort to histrionics on a regular basis and made salient point beyond screaming and name calling, you could make an argument for why a no-fly list is a bad idea? What court of law was the US citizen in and what crime were they convicted for that placed them on that list? What actual legal reason would the government have that would have put Mateen on that list other than two FBI investigations that resulted in nothing? I am completely against the government using excuses based on no legal reasoning to interfere with a US citizen's rights. If that concept doesn't scare you, then bring on President Trump, I'm sure nothing bad is going to happen there.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:50
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PerniciousKnid posted:Ban gun sales to the no fly list, get the NRA to lobby for eliminating the list, score one for liberals. I'm cool with this since you also get to paint the NRA as terrorist sympathizers. which they are, just right wing terrorist sympathizers
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Jun 14, 2016 18:50
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742771576039460864
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Jun 14, 2016 18:50
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Ron Jeremy posted:If it's cosmetic, then the ban serves zero purpose other than making people who don't understand how guns work feel better that their politicians have gotten "something done." Well maybe we could write a new law that actually does something about it instead of letting the NRA negotiate it.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:51
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Court Backs Rules Treating Internet as Utility, Not Luxuryquote:High-speed internet service can be defined as a utility, a federal court has ruled, in a sweeping decision clearing the way for more rigorous policing of broadband providers and greater protections for web users. Good luck without Scalia, gently caress faces.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:51
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Ron Jeremy posted:If it's cosmetic, then the ban serves zero purpose other than making people who don't understand how guns work feel better that their politicians have gotten "something done." Taking completely ineffective action against guns would be an enormous and likely unachievable liberal victory at this point.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:51
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PerniciousKnid posted:Ban gun sales to the no fly list, get the NRA to lobby for eliminating the list, score one for liberals. Can I dare hope that he chooses Sarah Palin?
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Jun 14, 2016 18:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:I honestly have very little sympathy with the idea that gun ownership restrictions based on the no-fly list are an extrajudicial violation of rights. Maybe people who oppose any and all gun control legislation should have thought of that first before blocking anything and everything else that could have been done. I would still rather not see my own political party advocating for dumb regressive poo poo even if it's as a troll, unless the troll is so unsubtle that it's clear Clinton is taking the piss out of the utter lack of effective gun regulation. Merrick Garland's nomination is a good example of something that can be seen as a troll but is still legitimate, not odious, if taken on its own. (To be clear, what I'm saying is dumb, regressive and odious is the opaque and apparently capricious/discriminatory operation of the list. I am willing to entertain the possibility that there is some nonzero number of people who should, following proper judicial process, be banned from flying, much less owning guns.)
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Jun 14, 2016 18:52
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How about the compromise should be an AWB style ban for people on the no fly list. So sure, they can still buy that pump action for "home defense" but can't buy an AR-15. They still get a right to bare arms and maybe the death toll gets a little smaller.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:53
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ComradeCosmobot posted:the deadliest mass shootings in American history have been caused by an assault weapon -> banning assault weapons would be dumb and ineffective "Assault Weapon" isn't even really a term, it's a term that was defined by the assault weapon ban. The vast majority of it is like trying to stop drug abuse by banning drugs that are colored blue.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:53
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