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Computer viking posted:At least I have an explanation of why this hasn't made much of a ripple over here: Takata Europe didn't like the sound of the ammonium nitrate, and hired someone to find an alternative; their airbags over here use guanidine nitrate instead. Same thing in China; they use the European formulation. Do you mean metaphorically or the ACTUAL sound when it goes off? Poe's law and all that, alt. 'the normal scientific basis for business decisions'
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Jun 5, 2016 11:56
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Ha, I guess that really could go both ways - I meant metaphorically.
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Jun 6, 2016 09:15
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Computer viking posted:At least I have an explanation of why this hasn't made much of a ripple over here: Takata Europe didn't like the sound of the ammonium nitrate, and hired someone to find an alternative; their airbags over here use guanidine nitrate instead. Same thing in China; they use the European formulation. You'd think China deciding that something was too dangerous and cutting corners on it was a bad idea would have been a bit of a red flag. Edit: that article is a pro-read, particularly if you have a bit of a fascination with managerial led fuckups like I do. I'm just glad that working in IT is unlikely to kill anyone except myself through alcoholism. To add to it, I spoke to a Japanese executive about changing a process once and he said 'I agree, it would be good and it would work. But, my boss does not like change and therefore I cannot support this idea, I am sorry'. Good job it was just about moving data from a to b and not about how to best avoid frag grenading drivers I guess. Powerful Two-Hander has a new favorite as of 17:11 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 16:53
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I'll just leave this here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OGfXfeFISg
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Jun 14, 2016 05:54
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Zopotantor posted:I'll just leave this here. I just watched this and I don't regret watching it. But I understand almost none of it.
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Jun 14, 2016 12:33
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:You'd think China deciding that something was too dangerous and cutting corners on it was a bad idea would have been a bit of a red flag. 
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Jun 14, 2016 13:19
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This isn't actually about dangerous chemicals or explosions or anything like that, but it is about great engineering, making life easier for billions of people every single day. Oh, and it contains the phrase "explosive liquified bowel movements". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYNX8y6lQMc E: To make of for the lack of danger, here's everyone's favorite Iranian electrical engineer having fun with supercapacitors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKki89sq0XY KozmoNaut has a new favorite as of 18:15 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 18:08
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Amazon fined 350k for shipping one-gallon container of 'Amazing Liquid Fire'quote:Amazon faces a $350,000 fine from the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration after shipping a corrosive chemical by air, in violation of federal law. It's the 25th time the company has been found to violate hazardous chemical shipping regulations in two and a half years.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:15
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Gobbeldygook posted:Amazon fined 350k for shipping one-gallon container of 'Amazing Liquid Fire' You have to link the MSDS with that, it's a work of art. 
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Jun 14, 2016 19:35
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jetz0r posted:You have to link the MSDS with that, it's a work of art. 
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Jun 14, 2016 19:48
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I thought people were posting that image as a joke. 
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Jun 14, 2016 19:49
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jetz0r posted:You have to link the MSDS with that, it's a work of art. MSpaintDS
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Jun 14, 2016 21:28
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The (lack of) production quality is more informative than any of the symbols.
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Jun 14, 2016 21:31
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The text layout is comparably incompetent, though that's less entertaining.
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Jun 15, 2016 01:08
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Computer viking posted:The text layout is comparably incompetent, though that's less entertaining. They did use some kind of text editor for the text, it wasn't all scribbled on a pdf with the paint draw tool.
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Jun 15, 2016 02:14
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Phy posted:MSpaintDS 
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Jun 15, 2016 02:33
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It's apparently called an SDS now, presumably to ensure that important data about spiritual hazards isn't omitted.
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Jun 15, 2016 06:05
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Yeah I had to pull up the SDS on ectoplasm the other day.
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Jun 15, 2016 06:43
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Zopotantor posted:I'll just leave this here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8lon0TyPl0
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Jun 15, 2016 06:57
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The Lone Badger posted:It's apparently called an SDS now, presumably to ensure that important data about spiritual hazards isn't omitted. You jest, but don't pretend those folks at Klapotke's lab don't have some degree of psychic scarring
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Jun 15, 2016 07:01
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nmfree posted:"It's like concentrated nitric acid, only it pretends to be blue and cute." This is a good video. Perfect for this thread.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:45
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Nile Red whipped up a pretty big batch of mercury thiocyanate a while back, he put up a video of him burning the stuff in various fuel configurations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQdK7gaZS0k
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Jun 15, 2016 20:34
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Thanks a lot for this thread. I've worked with ammonia freezing plant before and have personally gotten to enjoy an ammonia leak. It began leaking out of a valve which I then tried my hardest to close, but my body basically decided for me to get up and run out of the room. The absolute worst thing about it was I knew I had no option but to go back in and get that valve shut or very slowly watch the plant dump its entire ammonia charge. Even putting on a mask with ammonia filters would only give me a few seconds in there before I had to run back out and get fresh air. Took me three or four tries to get it fully closed. It's like nothing I've ever experienced before. It's as close to a physical pain without actually being painful as I can imagine, and I just remember feeling as though I was having a massive asthma attack - I guess that's what triggered my body's fight or flight response - and that I couldn't suck in air at all. And then I read this thread and I think 'hey, that could have been a lot worse.'
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Jun 22, 2016 13:46
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Two Finger posted:Thanks a lot for this thread. I've worked with ammonia freezing plant before and have personally gotten to enjoy an ammonia leak. It began leaking out of a valve which I then tried my hardest to close, but my body basically decided for me to get up and run out of the room. The absolute worst thing about it was I knew I had no option but to go back in and get that valve shut or very slowly watch the plant dump its entire ammonia charge. Even putting on a mask with ammonia filters would only give me a few seconds in there before I had to run back out and get fresh air. Took me three or four tries to get it fully closed. That's insane. Pretty sure the cost to the company to replace its entire ammonia supply would be less than what they'd pay out in a wrongful death lawsuit, let them worry about that and you worry about your family. That's a sound-the-alarm and run situation, not a keep-going-back-in-with-inadequate PPE.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:38
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Phanatic posted:That's insane. Pretty sure the cost to the company to replace its entire ammonia supply would be less than what they'd pay out in a wrongful death lawsuit, let them worry about that and you worry about your family. That's a sound-the-alarm and run situation, not a keep-going-back-in-with-inadequate PPE. Fishing boat mate. Not a whole lot of places to run to.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:58
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Two Finger posted:Fishing boat mate. Not a whole lot of places to run to. Jesus, get your company to switch their refrigeration maintenance then.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:44
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Fishing boat with enclosed spaces and no self-contained breathing apparatus, just masks with filters? Ammonia entirely aside that's not a good idea.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:52
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Yeah you're well within your right to complain about that incident. At no point in your career should you ever have to put yourself in harm's way. They make ppe for just that sort of occasion. It's so much cheaper and easier than dealing with your corpse too! Hell I'd file an OSHA complaint and go start looking for a new job since they'd soon can me.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:54
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In that case the take away is that anyone responsible for that system probably should have had hazmat training and access to supplied air PPE. A full loss of an ammonia refrigerator charge when a valve could be closed to arrest it is just unacceptable. There's mitigation like water fogging, but mitigation is all it is. You can't replace mechanically arresting the leak, even if it should have been in the context of a hazmat response. For reference, the hazmat guidance (and general resipirator best practices) for choosing respirators is you can use a filtered air respirator if you know exactly what the concentration of the hazardous material is so you can calculate breakthrough time. You should use supplied air if you don't know the concentration. As my instructor put it, when the hell are you ever going to know concentration in an emergency?
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Jun 22, 2016 21:55
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The FOOFiest part is that seems to be a pretty common story. Someone cheap enough to get an ammonia refrigerator is probably the type to only do the barest minimum of safety prep and demand it not kill anyone with leaks by sheer will.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:02
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DemeaninDemon posted:Yeah you're well within your right to complain about that incident. At no point in your career should you ever have to put yourself in harm's way. They make ppe for just that sort of occasion. It's so much cheaper and easier than dealing with your corpse too! I don't work there any more because of a number of reasons including their rather.... lax view on safety and employee happiness. It's the only time in my life I have walked off a job. zedprime posted:The FOOFiest part is that seems to be a pretty common story. Someone cheap enough to get an ammonia refrigerator is probably the type to only do the barest minimum of safety prep and demand it not kill anyone with leaks by sheer will. It's a bit misleading to refer to it as a refrigerator, it was a full on freezing plant. zedprime posted:In that case the take away is that anyone responsible for that system probably should have had hazmat training and access to supplied air PPE. A full loss of an ammonia refrigerator charge when a valve could be closed to arrest it is just unacceptable. There's mitigation like water fogging, but mitigation is all it is. You can't replace mechanically arresting the leak, even if it should have been in the context of a hazmat response. Ummm. Sorry, I'm not really clear on what you're saying here. The second part is obvious - always err on the side of safety - but the first, are you telling me I'm a moron for going back in to close the valve, or are you agreeing with my decision to get it shut and stop the situation getting any worse? My line of thinking was 'I stop this now, before more leaks and it becomes a serious threat to the safety of everyone on board.' Yes, I am well aware I put myself at greater risk to do so, but I judged it a worthwhile tradeoff. And it cleared my sinuses like you wouldn't believe. I actually quite like discussions like this one, because by any sane hazmat response, I was nuts to just throw a mask on and get back in there. But, it was a successful action with no serious harm done - and I should mention the PPM alarm had only hit 100, the 200 alarm hadn't gone yet.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:21
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Phanatic posted:Fishing boat with enclosed spaces and no self-contained breathing apparatus, just masks with filters? Ammonia entirely aside that's not a good idea. All ships carry full firefighting gear including full SCBA. If I hadn't been able to get to the valve to close it off, my next action would have been to go on air. I realise it wasn't the most safety oriented decision I could have made, as I said, but it was a successful action. The mask was a full face shield, and as I say it bought me enough time to do what I needed to. But perhaps this is a better discussion for an OSH thread.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:34
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Two Finger posted:It's a bit misleading to refer to it as a refrigerator, it was a full on freezing plant. A leak needs stopping whether you're on a boat or at a factory in the sticks, or especially a factory in an inhabited area, for the collateral damage reasoning, so I think we're agreeing. But standard procedure for an air filtering respirator is that if you detect breakthrough, you NOPE yourself out of there and get a better respirator.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:35
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This makes a “FOOF” sound and it’s cool so I’m posting it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TNSUIsjdpY
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Jun 23, 2016 10:57
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Thank you for posting that, it's fantastic. The flame front is downright beautiful to watch.
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Jun 23, 2016 11:18
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Two Finger posted:The mask was a full face shield, and as I say it bought me enough time to do what I needed to. The problem I have with this kind of reasoning is that it only buys you enough time until it doesn't, at which point you're now Proper hosed.
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Jun 23, 2016 13:01
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Cross post from the horrible mechanical failures thread:um excuse me posted:I've worked with Arsine, phosphine, boron trifluoride, germanium tetrafluoride, silicon tetrafluoride, diboron tetrafluoride, diborane, and hydrofluoric acid in live gas environments. Diboron tetrafluoride is by far the worst. It is extremely expensive to make at around $300 a gram. It is used for ion implant in the semiconductor industry. A lot of us understand a lot of chemistry but there are some real lessons in there as far as being at the pointy end of the stick is concerned.
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Jun 28, 2016 00:36
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With how mind-bogglingly lethal everything I read about in this thread is, I sometimes wonder why people even try to make it? Like at what point is your science goal not worth having your bones melt? But I suspect asking that kind of question is why I'm not a chemist.
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Jun 28, 2016 00:41
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Memento posted:Cross post from the horrible mechanical failures thread: Once again confirms that I'd never want to work in the semiconductor industry. It terms of industrial chemicals they seem to work with nearly all the nastiest stuff.
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Jun 28, 2016 00:52
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YggiDee posted:With how mind-bogglingly lethal everything I read about in this thread is, I sometimes wonder why people even try to make it? Like at what point is your science goal not worth having your bones melt? But I suspect asking that kind of question is why I'm not a chemist. As the post I quoted said, B2F4 is for ion implantation. Semiconductor fabrication makes integrated circuits (microchips) which make computers. Basically, we do all of these things so that 13 year olds can call each other homophobic slurs on Xbox live.
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Jun 28, 2016 00:53
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