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remember, it's always important to cannibalize queer creators you don't agree with
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Jun 14, 2016 19:08
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Yeah like, this is a whole complicated thing, it's okay for a creator to have an opinion on it that you don't share. That doesn't mean they should stop making that thing. It's not even possible to produce work that touches of these issues that everyone can agree on, these issues are being explored.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:10
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Tollymain posted:remember, it's always important to cannibalize queer creators you don't agree with Hope you're ready for me to dredge up this post out of context a year from now 
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Jun 14, 2016 19:11
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sure, though i'm having trouble coming up with a context in which it's relevant i don't generally post about works i dislike much these days i think?
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Jun 14, 2016 19:14
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Just wait until you start eating people Gonna come back on you SO hard
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Jun 14, 2016 19:16
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hmmm this artist posted in the bad webcomics thread because she's uncomfortable with the way they discuss her work, better breathlessly bring word to the other webcomics thread so they can all talk about it too
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Jun 14, 2016 19:38
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Space-Bird posted:OPM's original art is atrocious and it's still fun as heck. I'd argue even the writing is pretty poor. Who cares though, a funny bald dude is strong and it's a fun time. I think there's definitely a certain breed of slightly-too-cruel critic who hates on partial failures because they're paralysingly afraid of making mistakes themselves, therefore don't create, and so seeing someone trying their imperfect best holds an unflattering mirror up to that. That's probably not the whole story about people who harangue less-than-perfect webcomics, but I think it's the case for some of them.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:40
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Android Blues posted:I think there's definitely a certain breed of slightly-too-cruel critic who hates on partial failures because they're paralysingly afraid of making mistakes themselves, therefore don't create, and so seeing someone trying their imperfect best holds an unflattering mirror up to that. That's probably not the whole story about people who harangue less-than-perfect webcomics, but I think it's the case for some of them. Yeah, and from the creator point of view, no matter how well adjusted, zen-like, and aware you are, you are still putting yourself in a pretty vulnerable place, by making something. It can still be really hurtful to see people mock something you've put your heart into. This doesn't mean things are above criticism, but we're not usually talking about people who can go sob on there giant piles of money here....
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Jun 14, 2016 19:49
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Space-Bird posted:Yeah, and from the creator point of view, no matter how well adjusted, zen-like, and aware you are, you are still putting yourself in a pretty vulnerable place, by making something. It can still be really hurtful to see people mock something you've put your heart into. This doesn't mean things are above criticism, but we're not usually talking about people who can go sob on there giant piles of money here.... Well. Aaron Diaz probably gets a decent pile of money from Patreon alone.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:52
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Android Blues posted:I think there's definitely a certain breed of slightly-too-cruel critic who hates on partial failures because they're paralysingly afraid of making mistakes themselves, therefore don't create, and so seeing someone trying their imperfect best holds an unflattering mirror up to that. That's probably not the whole story about people who harangue less-than-perfect webcomics, but I think it's the case for some of them. Theodore Roosevelt posted:It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:54
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anybody in here read o human star? it updated yesterday with a pretty intense page
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Jun 14, 2016 20:00
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Yet again, Theodore Roosevelt proves that he has forgotten more about webcomics than I will ever know.
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Jun 14, 2016 20:00
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His review of the Armory Show is an interesting read as well http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5565/ quote:In some ways it is the work of the American painters and sculptors which is of most interest in this collection, and a glance at this work must convince any one of the real good that is coming out of the new movements, fantastic though many of the developments of these new movements are. There was one note entirely absent from the exhibition, and that was the note of the commonplace. There was not a touch of simpering, self-satisfied conventionality anywhere in the exhibition. Any sculptor or painter who had in him something to express and the power of expressing it found the field open to him. He did not have to be afraid because his work was not along ordinary lines. There was no stunting or dwarfing, no requirement that a man whose gift lay in new directions should measure up or down to stereotyped and fossilized standards.
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Jun 14, 2016 20:05
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Android Blues posted:Yet again, Theodore Roosevelt proves that he has forgotten more about webcomics than I will ever know. I would read a webcomic by Theodore Roosevelt. He looks like he was even practicing! 
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Jun 14, 2016 20:07
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Tollymain posted:anybody in here read o human star? ...yowza.
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Jun 14, 2016 20:27
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 Enough art for 7 years of comics or so
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Jun 14, 2016 20:44
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now do loss
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Jun 14, 2016 20:52
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:this guy covered it about as well as I could Except that Allen Wren is completely full of crap? GtH isn't on some gold-star gay purist thing. Val's whole "queer-platonic" spiel has absolutely nothing to do with dodging bisexuality. It has everything to do with "Why isn't there a socially-acknowledged level of intimacy between just-friends and full-blown-romance-and/or-lust, wherein friendly make-outs can happen?" (Which she wrote in response to a bunch of people expecting a boring love triangle, or calling Fenic a homewrecker or whatever.) For example: quote:There's really two routes here - one being that this is actually the main emotional relationship in these characters' lives, which ends up making this whole "no they're pure queers really" thing some really disingenuous bi erasure, the other being that this is, what, just some cheap heat fanservice to get some makeouts flowing for the readership to coo over? No? There are definitely other routes. There are a lot of other routes. It could also be complete poly pandering, because that's also a thing people are into. Like, don't get me wrong, bi erasure and queerer-than-thou poo poo totally exists, but GtH ain't part of it. EDIT: Clarification, I don't disagree with anyone criticizing the awkward pacing, or the odd art choices, or the fact that it is ABSOLUTELY pandering to its audience of gay trans poly hipster furries. But "gross politics" seems like an unfair accusation. gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 21:09
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Tollymain posted:anybody in here read o human star? Now this is some good comics
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Jun 14, 2016 21:17
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Android Blues posted:Yet again, Theodore Roosevelt proves that he has forgotten more about webcomics than I will ever know. All we're missing from the discussion now is an unironic posting of that Zen Pencils comic.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:48
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The worst I can say about GtH is that it reminds me at times of Kazerad and his unabashedly cynical approach to pandering with his webcomic endeavors. Which isn't a bad thing because ultimately, pandering to rather underrepresented groups isn't the worst thing in the world, but I don't think it has much meat as a story independent of those qualities. 
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Jun 14, 2016 23:30
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mycot posted:Well. Aaron Diaz probably gets a decent pile of money from Patreon alone. Speaking of Aaron Diaz, I would like to state that the last two or three pages of Dresden Codak are the most Aaron Diaz thing ever.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:30
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The Lord of Hats posted:Speaking of Aaron Diaz, I would like to state that the last two or three pages of Dresden Codak are the most Aaron Diaz thing ever. Blank white canvases?
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Jun 14, 2016 23:47
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Zerilan posted:Blank white canvases? Okay, 2nd most Aaron Diaz thing.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:55
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Captain Oblivious posted:The worst I can say about GtH is that it reminds me at times of Kazerad and his unabashedly cynical approach to pandering with his webcomic endeavors. Which isn't a bad thing because ultimately, pandering to rather underrepresented groups isn't the worst thing in the world, but I don't think it has much meat as a story independent of those qualities. Can you really call it pandering when it's drawn by someone who herself is a member of those specific groups? It's not a built-by-committee story, it seems to me it's one person's worldview and experiences presented for like people.
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Jun 15, 2016 00:16
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You can if your some sort of weird jerk
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Jun 15, 2016 00:36
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Yay a new one yaaaaaaay http://bunnymeat.webcomic.ws/comics/37
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Jun 15, 2016 00:40
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Mercury Hat posted:Can you really call it pandering when it's drawn by someone who herself is a member of those specific groups? It's not a built-by-committee story, it seems to me it's one person's worldview and experiences presented for like people. Yes. That you can pander to people with similar interests to your own is the least novel concept in the world. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 00:52
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today in paranatural:
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Jun 15, 2016 00:54
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Plethora posted:Yay a new one yaaaaaaay http://bunnymeat.webcomic.ws/comics/37 Oof. Back to the gut punches I see.
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Jun 15, 2016 01:04
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Captain Oblivious posted:Yes. explain how it is "unabashedly cynical pandering" compareble to kazerad's cat trauma elder scrolls fanfiction homestuck rip-off in specific terms, then. because that's what you said. i'm so exhausted by the goon tendency for lgbt creators actually telling stories about lgbt things "pandering" and not just trying to carve out the tiniest obscure internet space for our stories edit: typo Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 01:26
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Empress Theonora posted:explain how it is "unabashedly cynical pandering" compareble to kazerad's cat trauma elder scrolls fanfiction homestuck rip-off in specific terms, then. because that's what you said. Calm down and actually read the post. Reading the first sentence does not qualify as reading the post. Captain Oblivious posted:The worst I can say about GtH is that it reminds me at times of Kazerad and his unabashedly cynical approach to pandering with his webcomic endeavors. Which isn't a bad thing because ultimately, pandering to rather underrepresented groups isn't the worst thing in the world, but I don't think it has much meat as a story independent of those qualities. GtH is, at it's worst, inoffensive. Much like ham handedly including a minority in mainstream media still beats the hell out of not having them at all, having more stories featuring rather underrepresented groups is nice even if sometimes they lack in substance. Which is kind of how I feel about GtH. I'm glad it exists, and more representation is desireable, but that doesn't mean I have to think it's a particularly interesting story. This is without even getting into issues like "pandering isn't inherently bad", see also the many complaints that have been levelled at Aaron Diaz: It's not so much what he does that rubs people the wrong way, but rather that he tries to present himself as some great feminist for drawing a boob.
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Jun 15, 2016 02:14
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Tollymain posted:today in paranatural: well this was certainly not what I expected when Lisa's character bio mentioned running the schoool store 
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Jun 15, 2016 04:40
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Tollymain posted:anybody in here read o human star? it's good, imo, but man I hope Al gets to have a nice day someday Gutter Owl posted:Except that Allen Wren is completely full of crap? GtH isn't on some gold-star gay purist thing. sure know I wanna make out with people I'm categorically not sexually attracted to all the loving time is this an actual argument you are putting forward, that 'no hetero bro' is a real and important thing that only this comic has the courage to address. yes indeed why isn't there a special word for wanting to play doctor with someone that emphasizes that you are definitely absolutely a priori on the other extreme of the Kinsey scale and in no way implies you're one of those weirdos who can be attracted to multiple kinds of people Plethora posted:Yay a new one yaaaaaaay http://bunnymeat.webcomic.ws/comics/37 yaaaay A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 04:42
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Tollymain posted:today in paranatural: Looks like it's time for someone to get BravestOfLamps a new avatar.
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Jun 15, 2016 04:55
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:it's good, imo, but man I hope Al gets to have a nice day someday What are you talking about
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Jun 15, 2016 04:57
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:What are you talking about Maybe I'm out of touch but I am also a little flummoxed at the idea that tongue-kissing someone can be interpreted as a "platonic" gesture in the vein of a friendly handshake or double pistol-fingers and a wink.
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Jun 15, 2016 05:25
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Oxxidation posted:Maybe I'm out of touch but I am also a little flummoxed at the idea that tongue-kissing someone can be interpreted as a "platonic" gesture in the vein of a friendly handshake or double pistol-fingers and a wink. About the furthest you can tow the line for platonic kissing is cheek to cheek style. Or like, forehead kisses, but those kinda get creepy depending on things Once it's lip locking, let alone tongue wrasslin, that kinda goes past platonic. Friends, sure, but friends who kiss like that are more the 'with benefits' kind. But hey maybe I'm wrong
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Jun 15, 2016 05:28
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Well, did Plato use tongue? If so, then tongue is platonic.
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Jun 15, 2016 06:21
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:is this an actual argument you are putting forward, that 'no hetero bro' is a real and important thing that only this comic has the courage to address. yes indeed why isn't there a special word for wanting to play doctor with someone that emphasizes that you are definitely absolutely a priori on the other extreme of the Kinsey scale and in no way implies you're one of those weirdos who can be attracted to multiple kinds of people ...that had literally nothing to do with my post. How did you miss the point this hard? Whether or not Fenic likes boys in general or doesn't like boys in general or might gently caress a dude at some point, is completely goddamn irrelevant. Maybe you'd call her bi, maybe she likes lesbian, they are literally words we made up in the last century and argue about all the loving time. There is no parts-dude-per-million limit where your attraction legally goes from gay to bi, unless you're one of those asinine gold-star purists. Fenic's sexuality is mentioned twice in the comic. Once here, where Leo (and the authorial voice) are teasing Fenic for her crush-thing. Like, idk how it is in YOUR local queer enclave, but where I'm from, "omg you're so loving gay" is just something you say to tease someone with a same-gender crush, regardless of said person's specific sexuality? (Sidenote-wise, there's also a big dumb loving argument in the queer community The other time is right before the kiss in question, when Leo basically asks, "but wait, aren't you gay?" To which Fenic's response is a definite "Whatever." That is literally the opposite of "no hetero, bro." It is an expression of apathy, not an expression of caring too much. The whole queer-platonic thing has nothing to do with straight or gay or bi. It has everything to do with a mid-level between Romantic Relationship and Platonic Relationship. I don't particularly like the term, because the etymology is majorly unclear. (The usage of "queer" here is used in the same context as "genderqueer," which isn't directly related to "queer orientation," because identity-politics-slang is all bashed together with a brick by drunk teenagers trying to figure out how feelings work.) But whatever, she didn't invent the word, and the concept seems entirely reasonable to me? Oxxidation posted:Maybe I'm out of touch but I am also a little flummoxed at the idea that tongue-kissing someone can be interpreted as a "platonic" gesture in the vein of a friendly handshake or double pistol-fingers and a wink. That's kinda the point? It's not really platonic, but it's not romantic either, so here's a word invented by Tumblr because it's the best anyone's got to hand I guess? It's not like the term even appears in the comic. gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 06:28
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