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Oh man Zelda looks soooo loving good. Skyrim Hyrule Gimme that poo poo 
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Jun 14, 2016 22:39
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jivjov posted:Was adding a gender option in Pokemon Crystal and beyond "tokenism"? Of course not. The Pokemon protagonists and the Legend of Zelda protagonists are blank slates, defined only by vague heroism and wanderlust. you did not understand my post but ok
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Jun 14, 2016 22:39
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jivjov posted:No previous Zelda title has ever hinged around Link's male-ness. Granted, Breath of the Wild could buck that trend, but odds are it will not. All you're doing is underscoring a binary gender system and diminishing cis people. Why does Link need a gender label at all?
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Jun 14, 2016 22:40
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BillmasterCozb posted:token characters for the sake of being token are not good Nobody frets this much about tokenism or story-justification when creators default straight to dude characters, which they do all the time. It's only when people talk about minority characters that suddenly it's Very Very Important to justify the choice.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:40
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"link can't be a girl for this reason we made up"
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Jun 14, 2016 22:41
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BillmasterCozb posted:token characters for the sake of being token are not good People always respond with something like this any time people want characters added to games that are women/PoC/gay/etc and it's total bullshit Krysmphoenix posted:I honestly don't give a poo poo what gender Link is, I just want to play as Zelda. I really can't believe they haven't at least made a Zelda spinoff yet. They gave her an entire fighting moveset for Smash, you could easily rework that for her own adventure game. And hell you could even include her being able to transform into Sheik
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Jun 14, 2016 22:41
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BillmasterCozb posted:token characters for the sake of being token are not good Token representation is not ideal, but it's better than no representation. This is more of an issue for racial minority and esp. queer characters than female characters, though, which actually have some degree of representation. I don't really care if they make a female Link, but he's one of the Nintendo characters that doesn't really have an identity. His name is specifically a pun on the fact that he's a link to the player. Giving a female option just strengthens that idea for female players.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:42
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Link has always been a boy. If you want a girl Linkle amiibo DLC, that's cool and they'll probably do that.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:42
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Electromax posted:All you're doing is underscoring a binary gender system and diminishing cis people. Why does Link need a gender label at all?
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Jun 14, 2016 22:42
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Krysmphoenix posted:I honestly don't give a poo poo what gender Link is, I just want to play as Zelda. You can, on Smash Brothers
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Jun 14, 2016 22:42
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the only tokens I want in Zelda are gold skultullas. Good thing girl link is not token.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:43
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Can you guys move this insufferable argument to the Zelda thread. It's realllllyyyy annoying.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:43
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Infinitum posted:If you want a girl Linkle amiibo DLC, that's cool and they'll probably do that. pretty much this
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Jun 14, 2016 22:43
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Infinitum posted:Link has always been a boy. link is a girl and nintendo needs to stop misgendering her
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Jun 14, 2016 22:43
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Infinitum posted:Link has always been a boy. A poster from 2005: "Link has always been left handed."
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Jun 14, 2016 22:44
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Electromax posted:All you're doing is underscoring a binary gender system and diminishing cis people. Why does Link need a gender label at all? This is also an excellent point; Link's gender is entirely irrelevant to pretty much everything in every LoZ title. Making Link entirely neutral would also be fine. Supercar Gautier posted:Nobody frets this much about tokenism or story-justification when creators default straight to dude characters, which they do all the time. It's only when people talk about minority characters that suddenly it's Very Very Important to justify the choice. And this sums up the entire issue really well; there's been stupid backlash against things Watch Dogs 2 having a black protagonist, or Dishonored 2 having a female protagonist, etc. All because this differs from the "norm" of Straight White Cis Male.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:44
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OK, so I left for work basically after the very first trailer for the new Zelda. Link can jump and there's no female Link (apparently). Someone linked me a Waluigi amiibo (about time). What else did I miss?
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Jun 14, 2016 22:44
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Macaluso posted:I really can't believe they haven't at least made a Zelda spinoff yet. They gave her an entire fighting moveset for Smash, you could easily rework that for her own adventure game. And hell you could even include her being able to transform into Sheik Do you really want a Zelda version of this? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Princess_Peach You can read Aonuma's response and understand the mentality that leads to something like this instead of "a Mario game, with Peach". They can't understand just changing a gender, they have to go full stereotype with it.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:45
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Electromax posted:All you're doing is underscoring a binary gender system and diminishing cis people. I think you meant non-cis, but even then it's still not really true because a non-cis person could pick either the male or female PC of their choice just as a cis person could. And a cis male could pick the female PC if they felt like it too, for example. It does diminish non-binary people, though.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:45
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Macaluso posted:People always respond with something like this any time people want characters added to games that are women/PoC/gay/etc and it's total bullshit This is what they should use all those OoT/MM 3DS assets for: a spinoff set during the Seven Years Link is sealed away where you play as Zelda/Sheik. Junpei Hyde posted:A poster from 2005: "Link has always been left handed." Exactly! Saoshyant posted:OK, so I left for work basically after the very first trailer for the new Zelda. Link can jump and there's no female Link (apparently). Someone linked me a Waluigi amiibo (about time). What else did I miss? 6 more Mario series amiibo (including a Glow in the Dark Boo) and 3 LoZ amiibo (including a boss enemy with bendy arms)
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Jun 14, 2016 22:46
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Link can jump
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Jun 14, 2016 22:46
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Saoshyant posted:OK, so I left for work basically after the very first trailer for the new Zelda. Link can jump and there's no female Link (apparently). Someone linked me a Waluigi amiibo (about time). What else did I miss? Pokemon Snap 2 was announced
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Jun 14, 2016 22:46
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jivjov posted:As I said above, no Zelda title has ever focused on Link's male-ness. Allowing players to select Link's gender along with Link's name would be as impactful to any Zelda title as it is in any given Pokemon title; Pure representation for a major segment of the playerbase. So exactly how much "male-ness" would Link have to exhibit for you to consider him a male character? But seriously, I just don't think a character who has been considered male for 30 years can be a good representation for women, even if he is, basically, a blank slate. Creating a new character, a la Linkle, or using one of the established female characters would be a much better option in my opinion.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:47
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link is not a girl
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Jun 14, 2016 22:47
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Supercar Gautier posted:Like, when you have a character who constantly appears in different incarnations, of course that invites people to dream and imagine what kinds of incarnations there could be. Is that the premise of Link, though? Or is that just a widely considered head-canon of what he's supposed to be? Like, "Link's supposed to be completely malleable in every incarnation ever". Says who? Why can't we have a black haired Link or a black Link or a Link without pointy ears? He is, and has always been an awkward boy or teen hero, named Link. Why do these characteristics not matter?
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Jun 14, 2016 22:47
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you know who is a girl impa. maybe she'll show up in the game or her descendant
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Jun 14, 2016 22:48
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less laughter posted:It does diminish non-binary people, though. lol like non-binary people exist  Dammit Pokemon, just give me a gender neutral barbie doll to dress however I want, you don't even acknowledge gender or pronouns for the character beyond the first question.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:48
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Macaluso posted:Pokemon Snap 2 was announced Day one purchase. Don't think this is true though or jivjov would have mentioned.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:48
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Saoshyant posted:OK, so I left for work basically after the very first trailer for the new Zelda. Link can jump and there's no female Link (apparently). Someone linked me a Waluigi amiibo (about time). What else did I miss? A. 3DS is getting a Mario Party game, if you care (you probably don't because sticking a party game on a handheld is nuts) B. New Zelda game features a giant fuckoff world, with over 100 minidungeons (shrines) that function as fast travel points and a smaller number of traditional dungeons. C. Link's weapons are degradable and limited use, but basically every enemy drops weapons. D. Link can do some crazy environmental poo poo like start forest fires or roll over boulders in order to fight enemies. He also has a boat. E. Don't gently caress with Chico from the Nintendo Treehouse.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:49
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jivjov posted:No previous Zelda title has ever hinged around Link's male-ness. Granted, Breath of the Wild could buck that trend, but odds are it will not. Oho.  By what definition of male-ness are you going by jivjov? Under what culturally driven pretenses that define the male gender and what is masculine versus feminine have you based your judgement upon? Also the fact that link has always been a man could possibly show how anomura or whatever his name is views masculinity as well, whether it be by the hero's actions or his looks. Let's not get started at people saying link never appeared manly or whatever, cause then that gets into social views, culturally driven norms and the individual's take on gender itself. There is no winner when it comes to debates on such matters, let alone internet bickering in general.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:49
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BillmasterCozb posted:link is not a girl which one
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Jun 14, 2016 22:50
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Krysmphoenix posted:As someone who is non-binary transgender, what the gently caress are you talking about? Swype autocorrect from xi, but I see that xe is how it's spelled.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:50
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LoveBoatCaptain posted:So exactly how much "male-ness" would Link have to exhibit for you to consider him a male character? But seriously, I just don't think a character who has been considered male for 30 years can be a good representation for women, even if he is, basically, a blank slate. Creating a new character, a la Linkle, or using one of the established female characters would be a much better option in my opinion. I'm actually hardpressed to think of any video game character ever where the character's gender is absolutely integral to the plot. Possibly any games that deal with various aspects of parenthood, specifically pregnancy/childbirth...but even that isn't an absolute. As for "good representation", I again go back to the Pokemon comparison...is it a bad thing that the Pokemon games added a gender option in Crystal? Since there were two sets of games with a locked-in male protagonist, should they not have added a gender option? BillmasterCozb posted:link is not a girl But there is absolutely no reason why this has to be the case.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:50
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Junpei Hyde posted:which one all of them jivjov posted:But there is absolutely no reason why this has to be the case. someone didn't read my post after that
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Jun 14, 2016 22:50
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BillmasterCozb posted:link is not a girl She's actually a pretty girl
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Jun 14, 2016 22:50
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the more people argue about not wanting link as a girl, the more I yearn for it and I'm not even the biggest zelda fan. for all the zelda I've played (the gameboy ones and the NES one and LTTP) Not once did I think Link's dick was integral to the story.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:51
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Patter Song posted:A. 3DS is getting a Mario Party game, if you care (you probably don't because sticking a party game on a handheld is nuts) A), yeah, that's dumb, but I guess those sell somewhat. B to D  . Who's Chico?Also, thanks for the detailed reply.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:51
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Saoshyant posted:A), yeah, that's dumb, but I guess those sell somewhat. B to D she is the queen of murder and loves to torture her foes like they're defenseless animals, which they are when going up against her
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Jun 14, 2016 22:52
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BillmasterCozb posted:all of them Is it not, however, possible that a future Link could, in fact, be a girl?
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Jun 14, 2016 22:53
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SylvainMustach posted:for all the zelda I've played (the gameboy ones and the NES one and LTTP) Not once did I think Link's dick was integral to the story. Having a dick does not make someone male or female.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:53
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