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NRVNQSR posted:There's no such thing as a "VR dev", though. Game developers may or may not develop for virtual reality; they'll only do so long term if there are customers who own or are willing to consider a VR headset. It's the consumers that need to be kept happy with their investment, not the developers. And customers only adopt the platform if there's content in the short term. We know what short-term unsubsidized VR content looks like, it's the current Vive library and it's sort of an indie mess where consumers pay too much and devs make no money. I imagine 'games of high quality' trumps 'commitment to an open platform' in a lot of consumers views. The industry could outgrow this sort of thing but for now everyone is in a bind.
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Jun 14, 2016 21:56
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agree. a wild west of lofi indie games is probably not the best foot to put forward.Cojawfee posted:The argument that PSVR exclusives are fine because it's expected by Oculus exclusives are not fine is what gets me. Everyone is upset that Oculus is claiming they are paying smaller devs in order to get their games out in exchange for timed exclusives but no one cares that Sony grabbed up major game franchises (that clearly don't need any financial help getting a game out) because "that's what consoles do." Both companies are doing something lovely but only Oculus gets criticized for it. We know that many of the Oculus exclusives are just timed and they will eventually be on steam in a few months, are any of the games on PSVR ever coming to steam? Oculus wants to lock people into their marketplace and become synonymous with VR and that's bad. Sony wants to lock people into their marketplace and become synonymous with VR and that's somehow not bad. I understand it's different to make a game for a console than it is for a PC, but it's still bullshit if some of these bigger names don't get a port. The PC market won't survive on just indie games. its not lovely to bank roll a game or vr mode for a game to leverage your platform. its lovely to buy rights to things that already exist and wall them off.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:00
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Fooz posted:And customers only adopt the platform if there's content in the short term. We know what short-term unsubsidized VR content looks like, it's the current Vive library and it's sort of an indie mess where consumers pay too much and devs make no money. I imagine 'games of high quality' trumps 'commitment to an open platform' in a lot of consumers views. The industry could outgrow this sort of thing but for now everyone is in a bind. If Oculus was truly dedicated to the best interest of VR they wouldn't block third party compatibility with their store. Nobody has a problem with Oculus funding games, and very few people have a problem with Oculus putting games on their store exclusively. Lucid Dream fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 22:01
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Cojawfee posted:Look anywhere on the internet and you'll only see people upset about Oculus Exclusives. The PSVR is most likely going to be the most popular platform since it is cheaper and easier for people to get into. If PSVR has all the major franchises, that leaves nothing for PC besides the kinds of games we have now. I'm not saying this because I want to defend Oculus. I'm not going to defend Oculus, I disagree with what they are doing. I'm saying this because PSVR exclusives has a bigger chance of hurting VR than timed exclusives ever will. I don't recall Sony buying exclusivity for a game that was already taking orders for another platform. Did I miss when God of War was taking preorders on Xbox?
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Jun 14, 2016 22:17
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bringer posted:I don't recall Sony buying exclusivity for a game that was already taking orders for another platform. Did I miss when God of War was taking preorders on Xbox? Once upon a time a little game called 'Halo' was going to be the best Macintosh strategy game with a persistent world. Then Microsoft happened. Does that count?
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Jun 14, 2016 23:18
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KakerMix posted:Once upon a time a little game called 'Halo' was going to be the best Macintosh strategy game with a persistent world. Then Microsoft happened. Does that count?
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Jun 14, 2016 23:19
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That E3 2000 trailer will still be one of the best memories of Halo before Halo became what it is... Oh well.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:21
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KakerMix posted:Once upon a time a little game called 'Halo' was going to be the best Macintosh strategy game with a persistent world. Then Microsoft happened. Does that count? I don't recall Apple or Bungie releasing a playable demo and taking money for the Mac Halo, but it's probably the closest example. Old school Mac fans still bring it up as an example of MS being the evil empire though, so yeah, kinda counts. Money changed hands for Giant Cop before Oculus swept in and bought exclusivity. People had played and prepurchased (not just preordered) it for the HTC Vive before Facebook bought the rights.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:25
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bringer posted:I don't recall Apple or Bungie releasing a playable demo and taking money for the Mac Halo, but it's probably the closest example. Old school Mac fans still bring it up as an example of MS being the evil empire though, so yeah, kinda counts. It's still coming out on the Vive. Edit: Looks like Halo came out on Mac too.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:27
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Cojawfee posted:It's still coming out on the Vive. Don't be obtuse, dude. 6 months is a long time in this industry, and it's a huge gently caress you to the original supporters to tell them that "they'll get it when they get it."
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Jun 14, 2016 23:34
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Given Oculus's supply issues, they're just making sure that Vive and Touch users get the game at the same time.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:35
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http://theclimbgame.com/blog/first-look-oculus-touch-and-the-climb Discussion about how they're implementing Touch in The Climb. Looks cool.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:37
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E1M1 posted:Don't be obtuse, dude. 6 months is a long time in this industry, and it's a huge gently caress you to the original supporters to tell them that "they'll get it when they get it." Do we know it's six months? The guy from Croteam just mentioned oculus offered to pay them in exchange for the game being released first on their store and then later on other platforms. There was no mention of a timeframe. I'm sure with how lovely Oculus is being, it will end up being several months, but do we have any confirmation of how long?
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Jun 14, 2016 23:39
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bringer posted:I don't recall Apple or Bungie releasing a playable demo and taking money for the Mac Halo, but it's probably the closest example. Old school Mac fans still bring it up as an example of MS being the evil empire though, so yeah, kinda counts. Lemming posted:http://theclimbgame.com/blog/first-look-oculus-touch-and-the-climb This is funny because when some people brought up how it's weird a game that would be for touch uses the Xbox pad other people said 'oh nobody wants to stand with their arms above their head' as an excuse and here we are. I guess those people are big dummos and you know who you are! Does look a lot better than sitting with a controller in your lap though.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:42
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Lemming posted:http://theclimbgame.com/blog/first-look-oculus-touch-and-the-climb I haven't tried The Climb yet but isn't some of the challenge related to applying just the right amount of pressure to the triggers? If so how does this work on Touch? The article may answer this but  Also for the love of God please release Touch already. "Vive shipping in 2-3 days" advertisements are just killing me. I only went with Rift because of backorder times and the Best Buy loophole. Oh woe is me and my first world problems. KakerMix posted:Yeah it isn't the same, but it IS an example of paying-for-exclusivity sort of thing.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:46
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theBeaz posted:I haven't tried The Climb yet but isn't some of the challenge related to applying just the right amount of pressure to the triggers? If so how does this work on Touch? The article may answer this but Both Touch and the Vive controllers have pressure-sensitive triggers.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:48
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Zero VGS posted:They also made a VR-capable game: http://unknownworlds.com/subnautica/ Huh, interesting thats the same folks, I've had subnautica forever (and yeah, its a shame how the performance is in VR). I'm watching a livestream of someone using medium right now and man, thats such an awesome looking piece of software, I can't wait to play around with it.
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Jun 15, 2016 00:37
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To be honest, performance isn't the best in normal mode either. Based on the roadmap, they are going to start polishing the game in August so they should nail down performance around then.
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Jun 15, 2016 00:50
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Cojawfee posted:Do we know it's six months? The guy from Croteam just mentioned oculus offered to pay them in exchange for the game being released first on their store and then later on other platforms. There was no mention of a timeframe. I'm sure with how lovely Oculus is being, it will end up being several months, but do we have any confirmation of how long? The guy from Croteam said six months specifically (the post has since been deleted).
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Jun 15, 2016 01:18
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Cojawfee posted:Do we know it's six months? The guy from Croteam just mentioned oculus offered to pay them in exchange for the game being released first on their store and then later on other platforms. There was no mention of a timeframe. I'm sure with how lovely Oculus is being, it will end up being several months, but do we have any confirmation of how long? It doesn't take a genius to extrapolate a plausible timeframe. Touch won't be out until the end of the year -- 6-7 months from now. Serious Sam VR is planning to release this summer, so delaying their launch for Touch would delay them six months. Considering Oculus would want a decent exclusivity window, and that Eve: Valkyrie's exclusive contract was six months, that means that Serious Sam VR would have had an almost year long delay for HTC Vive users. No wonder they demurred. Croteam best team.
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Jun 15, 2016 01:23
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Any reviewer got their hands on an OSVR 2.0 yet?
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Jun 15, 2016 01:30
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Unseen Diplomacy is incredible. Just... wow. I feel like this level of "elevation of VR expectations" is probably not good for future satisfaction, hahah. But really, if you've got a Vive you absolutely have to try it.
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Jun 15, 2016 02:53
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theBeaz posted:I haven't tried The Climb yet but isn't some of the challenge related to applying just the right amount of pressure to the triggers? If so how does this work on Touch? The article may answer this but Sell your Rift, buy a Vive. Knifegrab was right.
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Jun 15, 2016 07:45
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I think you mean bargefink. Thanks
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Jun 15, 2016 07:51
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I was behind in this thread and expecting a ton of awesome posts about E3 but nope, same old exclusivity BS. :/ So Alienware are making a backpack VR PC as well now: http://www.roadtovr.com/alienware-backpack-pc-virtual-reality-e3-2016 I don't see backpack PCs catching on, mostly due to cost, plus they'll never work on Rift because of the wired tracking setup, but what would be cool as a VR addon would be something similar looking to a tactical vest, with a wireless HDMI receiver, torso tracking via lighthouse or constellation (two different models, I guess) and just a poo poo ton of batteries all over it. What is latency & quality like on WHDI anyway, does anybody know? It supposed to be low, but is it low enough for VR?
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Jun 15, 2016 08:18
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monkey posted:I was behind in this thread and expecting a ton of awesome posts about E3 but nope, same old exclusivity BS. :/ As far as I know WHDI can't do anything near 90hz at VR resolution yet. wyoak fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 08:21
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monkey posted:I was behind in this thread and expecting a ton of awesome posts about E3 but nope, same old exclusivity BS. :/ Backpack PCs will never catch on because they'll have wireless headsets before long and the number of people between now and then that want to buy a second VR spec computer just to mount in a backpack is minuscule.
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Jun 15, 2016 08:53
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nelson posted:Let's get back to games and other fun VR things... Speaking of which, has anybody made a VR planetarium yet? I want to explore our galaxy from the comfort of my bed. Universe Sandbox 2 has Vive support. You can explore the galaxy from your bed, also throw poo poo at the earth. Also create solar systems, put huge stars inside our own solar system, blow up the earth in many different ways, create planets..... yeah.
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Jun 15, 2016 09:03
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Zero VGS posted:This analogy doesn't really work in a world where I have to buy specific monitors from specific manufacturers to use adaptive sync with my choice of graphics card. So because nvidia does something lovely to you, so can oculus? Nice whataboutism. But no, the analogy works great. You won't get g-sync with your lovely monitor if you buy the wrong card, but the monitor will still work. Just like you won't get ATW through the revive wrapper, but vive will still work just fine. Oculus is just being a poo poo here, no other way around it.
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Jun 15, 2016 09:20
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Finally got to try the CV1 last night thanks to my brother getting his before me. Goddamn. It's probably just being able to check out more and cooler experiences than I have on Vive, which I've only used at official demos (so only SPT and Job Simulator) but there was some seriously mind-blowing poo poo I got to check out on the Rift. For some reason Farlands was really cool (although I was too distracted to work out the mechanics). The visual quality of the aliens and plants was incredible, and I totally get the whole small-scale diorama thing being awesome now - when you shrink the world down, everything for some reason just looks so much more real. And at normal scale, it was so cool just sitting on the ground next to these weird bird things and having them sqwark at me  Elite was great but in VR flaws in the visuals do stand out. Not sure if we were running it at absolutely top settings. I think it could benefit massively from supersampling, on a better GPU. Does it make any difference if you run it from Home or just on its own? I know they did some wizardry for playing it with Rift but I'm presuming if you launch it standalone instead of from Home that should all kick in anyway? Lastly, the design of the HMD is just loving great. Can't be forgotten just how awkward strapping one of these things to your face is, but boy did they nail the adjustment and ergonomics. We were swapping it between us all the time, and just a quick grab of the side straps and it's back to a perfect fit. I have to wait till August for mine 
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Jun 15, 2016 11:21
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The biggest issue is, why couldn't they make VR headsets wireless? Is it a power issue? I personally wouldn't mind strapping a battery pack to my waist if it meant not having to deal with getting tangled in cords. And I am fairly sure a dedicated 5Ghz wireless connection could support the graphics, since steam can already do it on 2.4Ghz with Big Screen and Steam link.
ShadowMoo fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 12:15
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It's a latency issue more than anything, I think. Bad latency in VR means the image hitches and hitches. On your PC or PS4 that might be acceptable. When your brain is being tricked into thinking the image it sees is real, it can get a little bit sickening.
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Jun 15, 2016 12:33
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Apparently there is a 3rd-party that is supposed to deliver wireless VR this year with ~100 milisec latency. But it could easily turn into vaporware. http://uploadvr.com/nitero-wireless-vr-2016/
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Jun 15, 2016 12:40
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ShadowMoo posted:Apparently there is a 3rd-party that is supposed to deliver wireless VR this year with .1 milisec latency. They do this by compressing the video stream which can cause some obvious quality deficiencies even at higher bitrates when encoding is real time. I'll believe it when I see it.
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Jun 15, 2016 12:41
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SwissCM posted:They do this by compressing the video stream which can cause some obvious quality deficiencies even at higher bitrates when encoding is real time. I'll believe it when I see it. I personally would be willing to accept slight degradation for a wireless experience. Ofc real-time compression would require a monster of a PC to power it. I can easily see wireless HMDs being the next big 2nd gen thing if they can solve the latency issue. The power issue is easily solved. Edit: Another 3rd-party with promises of wireless VR. This one only supports 1080p though, but is OSVR compatible. http://www.pcworld.com/article/3044542/virtual-reality/optomas-new-wireless-vr-headset-frees-you-from-pc-cables.html Seems like the big issue right now is fragmenting the user-base until an industry standard comes along, or we get into the territory of console-war-style VR wars. But that seems unlikely to happen due to the cost of HMDs compared to consoles. ShadowMoo fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 12:44
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El Grillo posted:Finally got to try the CV1 last night thanks to my brother getting his before me. Goddamn. Farlands was an awesome surprise at launch, its a fun and engrossing little casual game. I'm hopping they do an update when touch launches, and/or have another unannounced touch surprise like farlands was. I'm curious what visual flaws you were seeing in elite, as thats one of that standout games for presenting itself without anything that looks weirdly flat or textured in VR, for me anyways. Also yeah, whether its launched through home, or on its own its still using the oculus software and is exactly the same experience. As far as the fitting and adjustments, I'm surprised how many people miss this, so I don't know if you did, but depending on your eyesight you can slide the headset higher or lower on your face to bring it into focus. It really is slick and lets me get away with not needing my glasses in the headset. I don't know what kind of voodoo lets the lenses work like that, while at the same time having pretty much perfect clarity no matter what direction your eyes are looking. Edit: ^^ I think we'll see something like a gearVR with markerless inside-out tracking and something like those samsung hand controllers before we see any wireless PC headsets. The PC headsets are going to keep pushing resolution and FOV and until that settles down the tech needed to wirelessly transmit that increasing data is going to be a moving target. Or who knows, not me. Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 13:09
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From what I am reading, most non-gamers are calling VR a fad similar to Google Glass or 3D glasses.
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Jun 15, 2016 13:15
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ShadowMoo posted:Ofc real-time compression would require a monster of a PC to power it. Video compression is much more efficient with a DSP or ASIC. The broadcast industry (electronic news gathering, specifically) has been tackling portable video compression for some time, and there are a few great solutions that are not particularly power-hungry and very low-latency.
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Jun 15, 2016 13:32
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Why do non-gamers care though? They're hardly even the target audience. That said, obviously, a lot of hardcore people are on board already, and anyone who keeps saying that vr is a fad after they actually tried it is in my experience either a jaded old person, or just a shitlord in general. Until they try it, a lot of people go "this is just another wii", but as anyone who played both wii and vive will tell you, it really isn't. I've demoed my vive to non-gamer and casual gamer people who never heard of VR and in 50% cases the result is that they want this poo poo *now*, but not at current price (especially after I mention that this is just the first consumer product and in 2 years it'll be both cheaper and much better). Or, they're just very impressed, but generally don't play games at all, so they're not too interested. (though some change their mind very quickly when they try tilt brush  )
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Jun 15, 2016 13:32
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ShadowMoo posted:From what I am reading, most non-gamers are calling VR a fad similar to Google Glass or 3D glasses. It's not a gamer/non-gamer divide; I've talked to plenty of skeptical gamers and credulous non-gamers. Generally it just comes down to whether or not they've had hands-on experience with it. Gamers are more likely to have that experience right now, of course, because most of the current content is games.
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Jun 15, 2016 13:35
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