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RVProfootballer posted:Or, ya know, a bunch of experts that have Perriman between Doctson and Shepard, so somewhere around 1.04 or 1.05. I don't have to agree with it, but consensus is absolutely that he's worth a mid 1st. Only one of those rankers have updated their ranks in the last week, so the news that Perriman may just have lovely knees isn't accounted for.
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Jun 15, 2016 01:22
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Spoeank posted:Only one of those rankers have updated their ranks in the last week, so the news that Perriman may just have lovely knees isn't accounted for. Oh yeah, I know. But that's how people viewed him assuming he'd be healthy this year, so assuming he does recover fine (not the safest assumption haha), seems like that's about where he'll be. Then when he gets 300-400 of Flacco's targets and can bust out a 100 catch red shirt rookie year, I'll sell him for all the 1st rounders.
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Jun 15, 2016 01:26
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RVProfootballer posted:Or, ya know, a bunch of experts that have Perriman between Doctson and Shepard, so somewhere around 1.04 or 1.05. I don't have to agree with it, but consensus is absolutely that he's worth a mid 1st. lol is that the reasoning you're going to use to try to sucker into that dumbass trade?
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Jun 15, 2016 01:27
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RVProfootballer posted:Oh yeah, I know. But that's how people viewed him assuming he'd be healthy this year, so assuming he does recover fine (not the safest assumption haha), seems like that's about where he'll be. Then when he gets 300-400 of Flacco's targets and can bust out a 100 catch red shirt rookie year, I'll sell him for all the 1st rounders. He's gonna need 400 targets to catch 100 footballs (because he can't catch you see)
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Jun 15, 2016 01:33
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jabro posted:lol is that the reasoning you're going to use to try to sucker into that dumbass trade? I'm not going to sucker anyone. I'm going to put him on the block some time and see what comes my way. Somewhat related, do you guys actually like try to really sell people in trade negotiations? I tend to just say "I want this guy, let me know what you like on my team," then go from there. If they make a sort of reasonable offer that doesn't work for some reason, I'll say like "I'm more interested in position X, not the guy you're offering in position Y," but I'm never going to argue about the other owner having wacky opinions. Spoeank posted:He's gonna need 400 targets to catch 100 footballs Hahah yes, that was what I was going for
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Jun 15, 2016 01:35
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I'm currently getting tut tutted and lectured on Twitter because I don't think ODB should be picked over AB84. Why do I discuss this poo poo outside this thread.
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Jun 15, 2016 03:21
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Spoeank posted:I'm currently getting tut tutted and lectured on Twitter because I don't think ODB should be picked over AB84. Because they are right. in Dope Catches leagues.
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Jun 15, 2016 05:12
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Spoeank posted:I'm currently getting tut tutted and lectured on Twitter because I don't think ODB should be picked over AB84. You have some dumb twitter followers. It's not even loving close.
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Jun 15, 2016 05:24
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Spoeank posted:I'm currently getting tut tutted and lectured on Twitter because I don't think ODB should be picked over AB84. Did they have any good points or was it pure insanity?
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Jun 15, 2016 05:27
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Metapod posted:Did they have any good points or was it pure insanity? What pray tell would be a good point?
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Jun 15, 2016 05:31
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Because ODB had 11 "Quality Starts" (he never explained what that meant) to AB84's 10. He didn't see this as a feather in AB84's hat because of the poo poo QB play he had to live with last year. He kept harping on the fact that ODB had more, completely missing my point that he managed only one more than AB84 when AB84 had to deal with Landry Jones and Mike Vick. He seems to think that Ben is going to suddenly miss 4+ games a year and it will crush AB84's value. He kept telling me you draft for floor at the beginning of the draft and ODB represents a higher floor, despite the fact that AB84 is Mr. Consistency. So he had a point but completely misused his data. I didn't even get to use the bullets in my gun: - Martavis downgrade to Coats/Wheaton means he gets leaned on more - Giants passed to the TE a lot more in the RZ at the end of last season - Sterling Shepard is going to steal ODB's "only game in town" WR status - The Steelers offense might end up the best in the AFC. Spoeank fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 05:32
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MrSargent posted:What pray tell would be a good point? For the record I would take brown before ODB. A good point imo would be something along the lines regarding how brown performed last season without big Ben and big Ben's injury history. Amen
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Jun 15, 2016 05:34
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Lmao quality start
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Jun 15, 2016 05:37
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While I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that OBJ could end up with more points than AB84 by the end of the year, there is pretty much no quantifiable reasoning with which to make that prediction right now. The Giants offense should be much improved overall, but they are still not even sniffing the level of the Steeler's offense. The Giants also added more weapons which might dilute OBJ's targets and the Carolina game last year showed us that there are some chinks in OBJ's armor either way. Meanwhile AB84 pretty much teleports into open space on every single play and it doesn't matter who is defending him or who is throwing to him. AB84 > Julio Jones >> OBJ Mikey Purp fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 15:49
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Spoeank posted:"Quality Starts" Bullshit stats like these will be the death of fantasy football
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Jun 15, 2016 16:28
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Quality starts are a dumb stat in the sport where they're actually a thing what the gently caress is a quality start for a WR
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Jun 15, 2016 16:35
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No you see, Sammy Coates and Darrius Hayward-Bay are going to have huge improvahahaha I can't even finish this sentence Heath Miller is gone, Big Ben is going to send almost half his pass attempts to AB, another quarter to Wheaton, maybe six to eight a game to Le'Veon, and the rest will mostly be intentionally over the head of a wideout or TE in coverage.
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Jun 15, 2016 16:50
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RVProfootballer posted:Or, ya know, a bunch of experts that have Perriman between Doctson and Shepard, so somewhere around 1.04 or 1.05. I don't have to agree with it, but consensus is absolutely that he's worth a mid 1st. Reaffirming why I never trust experts.  Spoeank posted:I'm currently getting tut tutted and lectured on Twitter because I don't think ODB should be picked over AB84. I am going to incur goon wrath when I say I think ODB will have a better season than Antonio Brown. I think his numbers have been too good for too long. Sustained success at the level he has performed at is rare, even among the greats. He is due for a regression.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:32
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Also the Steelers will convert more 2-point plays than anyone else in the league because that how dey roll
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Jun 15, 2016 17:39
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Leperflesh posted:No you see, Sammy Coates and Darrius Hayward-Bay are going to have huge improvahahaha I can't even finish this sentence Have you forgotten about green or not high on him?
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Jun 15, 2016 17:40
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I'd take ODB over AB without a second thought. ODB is a HOF-level talent constantly making sick plays and his best football is still to come. I absolutely believe his ceiling is higher than AB's. And he's insanely entertaining to watch and root for. Plus, I get to invoke Ol Dirty Bastard references constantly when he's on my teams. He's my #1 player going into this season.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:09
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Tiptoes posted:I'd take ODB over AB without a second thought. ODB is a HOF-level talent constantly making sick plays and his best football is still to come. I absolutely believe his ceiling is higher than AB's. And he's insanely entertaining to watch and root for. Plus, I get to invoke Ol Dirty Bastard references constantly when he's on my teams. He's my #1 player going into this season. Allow me to present my counter-argument  
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Jun 15, 2016 18:21
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Tiptoes posted:I'd take ODB over AB without a second thought. ODB is a HOF-level talent constantly making sick plays and his best football is still to come. I absolutely believe his ceiling is higher than AB's. And he's insanely entertaining to watch and root for. Plus, I get to invoke Ol Dirty Bastard references constantly when he's on my teams. He's my #1 player going into this season. ODB is a great player, and I don't outright disagree that his ceiling could be higher, but I don't think you are giving enough credit to AB84. Brown is just as much of a HoF talent as ODB, even moreso I would say because he has maintained an extremely high level of play for longer. Brown has more yards/catches in each of the last 3 years and it isn't even close. Their TD production is pretty even, with Beckham leading by 2 over the last 2 years. Also, this isn't HoF, it is fantasy, and Brown's clear advantage in yardage/catches last year was enough to put him 50 points ahead of ODB at the end of the year in half ppr. 50 points!! That's an average of 3 points more per game which is HUGE. Edit: Thinking more, I don't think it is clear that ODB's ceiling is higher than AB84. Brown had 1834 yards last year with Big Ben missing 4 games. I think its safe to say he hasn't hit his ceiling yet and is already well ahead of ODB. MrSargent fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 18:23
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Jun 15, 2016 18:33
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Totally worth the $8,200 fine.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:44
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I'm not even sure AB84 has even hit his ceiling tbh, I could see him hitting 2000 receiving yards as long as Big Ben is at QB all 16 games this year.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:47
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https://twitter.com/ZachZaidman/status/743132485245145088 lol Eddie Royal is never going away
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Jun 15, 2016 19:00
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MrSargent posted:ODB is a great player, and I don't outright disagree that his ceiling could be higher, but I don't think you are giving enough credit to AB84. Brown is just as much of a HoF talent as ODB, even moreso I would say because he has maintained an extremely high level of play for longer. Brown has more yards/catches in each of the last 3 years and it isn't even close. Their TD production is pretty even, with Beckham leading by 2 over the last 2 years. Tiptoes fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 19:13
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Antonio Brown was a sixth-round pick who was buried on the depth chart his first year and didn't become the No. 1 guy until Mike Wallace left. Beckham was a first-rounder who instantly won a starting job and has been anointed the Next Big Thing since he was in high school. Comparing career numbers to ODB is kind of unfair in that case.
Benne fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 19:23
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PPR probably matters there a bit. If it is a non PPR league, I think the whole OBJ is ahead of AB84 is a lot more understandable (even if i'd still go with AB). I am having a hard time seeing why anyone is "without a second thought" ahead of a guy who is probably going to catch 100 passes a year, while putting up yards and TDs at a high level.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:25
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Especially when the other guy has proven that all you need to do is tease him a little to get him to melt down and get suspended
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Jun 15, 2016 19:28
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gtkor posted:PPR probably matters there a bit. If it is a non PPR league, I think the whole OBJ is ahead of AB84 is a lot more understandable (even if i'd still go with AB). I am having a hard time seeing why anyone is "without a second thought" ahead of a guy who is probably going to catch 100 passes a year, while putting up yards and TDs at a high level. Plus Return to the 36 Chambers is literally one of my favorite albums of all time.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:35
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shimmy shimmy ya fuckin crazy
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Jun 15, 2016 19:37
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Tiptoes posted:Antonio Brown's career numbers at ODB's age: 85/1275/2. ODB's numbers stand at 187/2755/25. Brown's target/catch numbers are off the charts but to say his TD production is pretty even with ODB is just not true. Brown has 23 TDs in 32 games the last two years while ODB has 25 TDs in 27 games. So ODB is basically scoring TDs at the same rate as Gronk and also he has the most receiving yards of any player through their first two years. And I still think there's another level to his game wherein he becomes outright unstoppable. So I'm going to draft based on what I think will happen going forward and I think ODB becomes a fantasy god. I think its really dumb comparing these two players as rookies. Some players take more time to develop and settle in than others. Brown had Mike Wallace, Hines Ward, and Heath Miller ahead of him when he came in as a rookie. ODB had 0 competition. I'm not going to go into more because the situations are completely different and comparing them is dumb because it has little to no bearing on where they are at now in their careers. You are right that I didn't account for ODB playing less games than Brown when comparing Touchdowns. The difference still wasn't enough to make up for the catches/yards that Brown gets. Essentially what you are doing is banking that the next year will be a huge step forward for ODB because that is the only way he can match Brown's current production, which I don't think has seen its peak yet. Antonio Brown is already a fantasy god (20 points/game average last year) and has been for the last 2 seasons. Also maybe next time you should say that one of the reasons you want to pick ODB over Brown is you would rather watch him play. That is absolutely fine if you want to do that, but it has nothing to do with production which is really the only thing we can debate. MrSargent fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 19:39
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ODB is going to be one of the best of all time and y'all fuckers better respect. AB is having his 15 minutes of fame at the moment but this is ODB's game from now on.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:42
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Tiptoes posted:ODB is going to be one of the best of all time and y'all fuckers better respect. AB is having his 15 minutes of fame at the moment but this is ODB's game from now on. lol, good thing we all said ODB isn't one of the best, oh wait none of us did. I mean if AB is having his 15 minutes of fame up to this point, does that mean ODB is at 3 minutes of fame? VietCampo fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 19:45
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This is why everybody hates New York sports fans
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Jun 15, 2016 19:54
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Tiptoes posted:ODB is going to be one of the best of all time and y'all fuckers better respect. AB is having his 15 minutes of fame at the moment but this is ODB's game from now on. You tipped your hand a little too much here, fly away troll Facts: Mikey Purp posted:AB84 > Julio Jones >> OBJ sourdough fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 20:22
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I'm pretty close to wanting OBJ over Julio though so let's not get crazy. Eli > Ryan and the Giants running game is pretty lackluster compared to Atlanta. Also, Atlanta are apparently wizards and just continually have a RuTD:PaTD ratio that's like 2 standard deviations above the mean
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Jun 15, 2016 20:52
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ODB is a fraud who is only good because of super glue gloves
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