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Jack Gladney posted:Gun insurance covering property damage and injury/death like we have for cars is the best suggestion I've heard. Is there some reason this is dumb that I missed? This is a good idea, treat them like cars. If you own a firearm you have to get it insured so that people can be compensated for damage that could possibly occur with it.
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Jun 15, 2016 13:36
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Azuth0667 posted:This is a good idea, treat them like cars. If you own a firearm you have to get it insured so that people can be compensated for damage that could possibly occur with it. that's stupid, and you know it you might as well push for insurance on hammers and pencils and spatulas and other tools that are just tools and only tools that are solely meant for some sort of work
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Jun 15, 2016 14:18
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Takoluka posted:that's stupid, and you know it I think it's the application of the tool that needs to be insured against. Contractors are bonded and insured in case the work they perform fails or causes injury. They're not insuring the hammer and nails but the work performed with the hammer and nails. You also don't insure cars for being cars. You insure cars for accidents that happen during the usage of the car. I think the same thing can apply to the usage and liability of a firearm.
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Jun 15, 2016 14:21
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Oh, I know. I'm just preparing for the inevitable response of such a suggestion. In fact, your response will be good for Facebook comments that I have to deal with sometimes.
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Jun 15, 2016 14:23
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I fail to see how this will curtail gun violence. It seems more intended to make gun ownership cost prohibitive.
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Jun 15, 2016 14:29
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Chilichimp posted:I fail to see how this will curtail gun violence. Then subsidize it. If gun licensing, psych exams, and training are considered a tax write off and/or covered by health insurance then the only thing left stopping someone is impotent cries of, "BUT I DON'T WANNA!" Rick_Hunter fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 14:33
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I'm not sure where to put this question but I just watched Obama's beatdown of Trump and something occurred to me. What does the proposed bad on muslim foreigners accomplish in this instance? This guy was born in New York, right? The San Bernadino and Fort Hood shooters were born in the US. What does Trump opening his big mouth again have to do with effective policy regarding these attacks and why has no one pointed this out? Or have they and I missed it?
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Jun 15, 2016 14:49
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm not sure where to put this question but I just watched Obama's beatdown of Trump and something occurred to me. What does the proposed bad on muslim foreigners accomplish in this instance? This guy was born in New York, right? The San Bernadino and Fort Hood shooters were born in the US. What does Trump opening his big mouth again have to do with effective policy regarding these attacks and why has no one pointed this out? Or have they and I missed it? It's the same thing as rejecting Syrian refugees: Xenophobic racism. Nevermind the fact that people are waiting in refugee camps for 3+ years before they are even considered for entry into the US and that the vetting process is so stringent that terrorist don't get in.
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Jun 15, 2016 14:53
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm not sure where to put this question but I just watched Obama's beatdown of Trump and something occurred to me. What does the proposed bad on muslim foreigners accomplish in this instance? This guy was born in New York, right? The San Bernadino and Fort Hood shooters were born in the US. What does Trump opening his big mouth again have to do with effective policy regarding these attacks and why has no one pointed this out? Or have they and I missed it? Come on, dude. You started this thread, you know the answer: it's red (still dripping, in this instance) meat for his base. No one who's voting for him cares if his policy proposals will actually accomplish anything (build a wall!) They just want big daddy Trump to talk tough so they can feel safe, even as he makes the world distinctly less so. Hell, freep of all places was more self aware about this for a while. Back before Jimrob declared that they had always supported Trump, you had freepers outright saying "I know he's just saying what I want to hear, but I like what I'm hearing!" Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 14:55
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm not sure where to put this question but I just watched Obama's beatdown of Trump and something occurred to me. What does the proposed bad on muslim foreigners accomplish in this instance? This guy was born in New York, right? The San Bernadino and Fort Hood shooters were born in the US. What does Trump opening his big mouth again have to do with effective policy regarding these attacks and why has no one pointed this out? Or have they and I missed it? Absolutely nothing beyond appealing to the racists that make up the Republican and especially Trump's base. As to why nobody is pointing out this latest instance of Trump spewing nonsense besides President Obama is thanks to his entire campaign being built on bigoted gibberish and we still have to pretend that whoever is in the Republican's seats is still a respected politician no matter how terrible or nonsensical they may be for the sake a "fairness."
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Jun 15, 2016 14:55
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm not sure where to put this question but I just watched Obama's beatdown of Trump and something occurred to me. What does the proposed bad on muslim foreigners accomplish in this instance? This guy was born in New York, right? The San Bernadino and Fort Hood shooters were born in the US. What does Trump opening his big mouth again have to do with effective policy regarding these attacks and why has no one pointed this out? Or have they and I missed it? If I remember his original ban idea it was actually a ban on any Muslims entering the US, even citizens. He even carved out an exception for returning military. That didn't get emphasized in the media because I think they just couldn't accept that his crazy rear end policy was actually that crazy. But yeah even that wouldn't have stopped the guy in Orlando. To their credit people outside the right wing crazy sphere are calling this out.
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Jun 15, 2016 14:58
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Takoluka posted:that's stupid, and you know it When was the last time someone used a pencil, hammer, or spatula to murder 50 people in a nightclub  ?It's only reasonable these things cause as much damage as cars yet they are necessary tools for some folks so for the benefit of society they should have to carry insurance in the unfortunate event some damage does occur with them. E: Rick_Hunter posted:Then subsidize it. If gun licensing, psych exams, and training are considered a tax write off and/or covered by health insurance then the only thing left stopping someone is impotent cries of, "BUT I DON'T WANNA!" Exactly treat it like car ownership. Azuth0667 fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 15:11
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Keeshhound posted:They just want big daddy Trump to talk tough so they can feel safe
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Jun 15, 2016 15:12
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Shalebridge Cradle posted:If I remember his original ban idea it was actually a ban on any Muslims entering the US, even citizens. He even carved out an exception for returning military. That didn't get emphasized in the media because I think they just couldn't accept that his crazy rear end policy was actually that crazy.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:14
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edit: gently caress never mind. I should learn: no gun chat ever
NLJP fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 15:16
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Kilroy posted:His parents were immigrants though, right? So banning Muslims would have kept *them* out. Checkmate, libtards If memory serves, that is literally one of the tweets he made following the attack.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:17
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/743078235408195584
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Jun 15, 2016 15:36
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I said 14 magical words once. Now I'm a grand wizard.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:37
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can't wait for the first time a white person is denied sale because of their association with a neo-nazi or white supremacist group, that's gonna be fun
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Jun 15, 2016 15:39
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Oh my god, it's gonna be just like when he suggested that women should be punished for having abortions, isn't it? He's built his entire campaign on being politically clueless, and every once in a while it bears the most rotten, hateful fruit. 
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Jun 15, 2016 15:42
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Goons seem surprisingly well armed. I may have to reconsider my shitposting so I don't get shot by a Doritos covered lunatic hopped up on Mt Dew.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:49
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When I was younger, gun dialogue used to be "you'll need this for personal protector or while you are out hunting". Now it's about "YOU'LL NEED THIS WHEN THE GOVERNMENT DECLARES MARTIAL LAW".
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Jun 15, 2016 15:57
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https://twitter.com/Nero Milo's suspended again
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Jun 15, 2016 16:05
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Goatman Sacks posted:https://twitter.com/Nero hail satan
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Jun 15, 2016 16:15
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Goatman Sacks posted:https://twitter.com/Nero I hope he brings this up at the next White House press conference. Also: lol.
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Jun 15, 2016 16:16
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Any idea for what?
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Jun 15, 2016 16:17
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Rick_Hunter posted:Any idea for what? Constant harassment and general shitlordiness? I mean he didn't poo poo on a floor, but still.
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Jun 15, 2016 16:44
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Rick_Hunter posted:Any idea for what? someone in another thread said he cranked up the islamophobia and he got dogpiled. It wouldn't surprise me if the guy is legit upset and lashing out, mind you.
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Jun 15, 2016 16:47
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Full Battle Rattle posted:someone in another thread said he cranked up the islamophobia and he got dogpiled. His page loads for me.
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Jun 15, 2016 16:50
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uninterrupted fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Sep 11, 2020 |
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Jun 15, 2016 16:53
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mannerup posted:
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Jun 15, 2016 16:54
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Azuth0667 posted:When was the last time someone used a pencil, hammer, or spatula to murder 50 people in a nightclub Guns are not liable to cause tens of thousands of dollars in "property" damage by accident or negligence... The damage we're concerned with regarding firearms is human deaths, which insurance won't be able to adequately replace. So every death will be compensated with punitive damages... which would be millions of dollars. When you wreck a car, insurance pays to replace the damaged property and medical bills for the other driver. I've never killed anyone with a car, but I image if someone dies, the insurance company writes a check or you have to subpoena the driver for punitive damages. Let's come around to the real argument... mass murderers aren't concerned with whether they kill people, as that is their entire motivation. They won't be around to pay the deductible. Insurance likely wouldn't cover malicious intent of the firearm operator. So insurance will only be for accidents, most accidental gunshot wounds are self inflicted... So you're really just putting burden on legal and licensed gun owners to provide the illusion of security... Adding cost of insurance will absolutely lower legal gun ownership without doing anything to curtail gun violence. Of course, if your entire goal is to find a means to reduce gun ownership, then bravo. That's why I think this is dumb. Instead push universal background checks, so we can deny purchases to criminals with warrants, prior violent offenders, or individuals on government watch lists. Also push licensing, which would require training, certification, mental health checkups. 2 year expiration seem frequent enough?
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Jun 15, 2016 16:55
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Fun little factoid re responsible gun ownership and my home state (texas). If you have a CaC permit, you could bypass the security at the capitol building - swipe your card as opposed to standing in line. It was standard practice for lobbyists to just get one, and the firm i i worked for was considering getting me, the one doing the boring grunt work, one just so i could drop off goody bags and what not with the staff. One of the congresscritters heard about the general practice and tried to push a bill through to... require you to actually own a gun and/or be carrying it at the time to use the speedy method. This was several sessions ago and i've long ago left the firm so i'm not sure what ever came of it. *edit* Chilichimp posted:Guns are not liable to cause tens of thousands of dollars in "property" damage by accident or negligence... The damage we're concerned with regarding firearms is human deaths, which insurance won't be able to adequately replace. So every death will be compensated with punitive damages... which would be millions of dollars. the whole gun insurance thing runs headfirst in to stuff like that bit in Freaknomics where statistically a pool is more dangerous to own than a gun. It's a lovely talking point to use due to the fact that you're not going to have a pool owner drag it with them to a school or theater to drown people with, but that's the argument against it that people will bring up. citybeatnik fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 16:57
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Chilichimp posted:Guns are not liable to cause tens of thousands of dollars in "property" damage by accident or negligence... The damage we're concerned with regarding firearms is human deaths, which insurance won't be able to adequately replace. So every death will be compensated with punitive damages... which would be millions of dollars. Fair enough. I think licensing and certification is the best way to approach the situation personally as well as increasing the effectiveness of background checks. If I'm not mistaken, I don't think gun stores actually keep records of who bought what. I'm also not sure if the current verification process checks to see if you've purchased multiple guns within the past few weeks. Seems like if we can loving track people cashing in on multiple oxy prescriptions we could connect the dots on gun purchases.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:15
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Vargatron posted:Fair enough. I think licensing and certification is the best way to approach the situation personally as well as increasing the effectiveness of background checks. They do, but thanks to the NRA it is literally on paper, and it's illegal for the ATF to computerize it and start data mining.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:23
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Shillary posted:They do, but thanks to the NRA it is literally on paper, and it's illegal for the ATF to computerize it and start data mining. What's their justification for that? Don't want fax machines to go out of style?
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Jun 15, 2016 17:31
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Vargatron posted:What's their justification for that? Don't want fax machines to go out of style? The justification is that no news is good news. Seriously. It goes hand in hand with the rest of the anti intellectualism messaging and wanting to curb critical thinking because it makes people question authority. What do they have to lose? An evil government funded study finds out guns are bad in cross sectional areas X, Y, and Z. But the NRA says that guns are good in areas X, Y, and Z! How do we reconcile this? Pull any funding of data mining surrounding guns or just make the data unavailable by preventing it from existing in the first place. This isn't any sort of nth dimensional chess, this poo poo is checkers, or even worse, tic-tac-toe.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:45
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citybeatnik posted:the whole gun insurance thing runs headfirst in to stuff like that bit in Freaknomics where statistically a pool is more dangerous to own than a gun. It's a lovely talking point to use due to the fact that you're not going to have a pool owner drag it with them to a school or theater to drown people with, but that's the argument against it that people will bring up. pools singlehandedly inflate your homeowner liability coverage by a factor of at least 3x, and you might even get your insurance denied if you don't have safety improvements like a fence (analogy: gun safe) and this is exactly because they're a deathtrap for children we absolutely should hold the same standards for people who own handguns with small kids in the house
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Jun 15, 2016 17:59
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Phone posted:This isn't any sort of nth dimensional chess, this poo poo is checkers, or even worse, tic-tac-toe. I don't think the question was meant as "why is th NRA supressing gun statistics." Like you said, most people can reason that out. It was probably meant to be read as "what's their excuse for this?"
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Jun 15, 2016 18:04
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Popular Thug Drink posted:pools singlehandedly inflate your homeowner liability coverage by a factor of at least 3x, and you might even get your insurance denied if you don't have safety improvements like a fence (analogy: gun safe) and this is exactly because they're a deathtrap for children I'm with you on that, just pointing out the talking point from the right. "Lol gubmint wants to regulate you having a pool, nanny state nanny state also OUR GUNZ". You also can't get a reliable statistical breakdown of gun violence for acturarial tables because folks like the NRA keep defunding the people who try. So there is that.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:09
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