|
Or your B&M store web site was incorrectly updated. Beware Massgoons, those 5 EVGA 1080s "in stock" are a lie according to the two employees by the GPU case 
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 16:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 14:24 |
|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:just loving say you want AMD to release fury-tier cards each year despite how much economic sense it'd make (very little) I'm pretty sure people just want AMD to actually compete with Nvidia, including at the high end.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 16:27
|
|
|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:just loving say you want AMD to release fury-tier cards each year despite how much economic sense it'd make (very little) I'd just like them to release chips at all. They've released a total of four chips across all of their product lines since the first-gen GCN chips - Hawaii, Bonaire, Tonga, and Fiji. Four chips in four years. NVIDIA has literally been releasing two chips for every chip AMD did. AMD was getting outpaced even in the Kepler generation, but it's just been a shitshow ever since. This isn't the tortoise and the hare, this is AMD desperately trying to get their car to start while NVIDIA does some donuts on the track. It clearly does make sense to release cards for the high-end market though - AMD is trying for it with Vega, but they're dead set on using HBM2 and it's just not ready in sufficient volumes. I keep hearing about how awesome and modular GCN is supposed to be, they should have sucked it up and released a stopgap product using the GDDR5-based memory controller until Vega could be ready. It appears now that by the time they're ready with a GP104 competitor that NVIDIA will be ready to launch GP102. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jun 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 16:36
|
|
|
AVeryLargeRadish posted:Also everyone remembers what happened with AMD and Intel, it feels like we are repeating history here or something, it's worrying. What happened, exactly? I know AMD got left behind, not sure why though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 16:47
|
|
|
teh_Broseph posted:Or your B&M store web site was incorrectly updated. Beware Massgoons, those 5 EVGA 1080s "in stock" are a lie according to the two employees by the GPU case I was half tempted to go get one, thanks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 16:48
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:It clearly does make sense to release cards for the high-end market though - AMD is trying for it with Vega, but they're dead set on using HBM2 and it's just not ready in sufficient volumes. I keep hearing about how awesome and modular GCN is supposed to be, they should have sucked it up and released a stopgap product using the GDDR5-based memory controller until Vega could be ready. It appears now that by the time they're ready with a GP104 competitor that NVIDIA will be ready to launch GP102. How long is the lead time for GPU designs usually? for CPUs it's anywhere between 4 to 6 years.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 16:50
|
|
|
Phlegmish posted:What happened, exactly? I know AMD got left behind, not sure why though. Intel's marketing was good enough that even when their product was complete poo poo compared to AMD's, they were still gaining market share.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 16:54
|
|
|
Ninkobei posted:Hi I'm mad at AMD, who nearly doubled the price-to-performance ratio, because they haven't released a $600 card in a couple of years  lDDQD posted:Intel's marketing was good enough that even when their product was complete poo poo compared to AMD's, they were still gaining market share. Intel struck deals with OEMs that limited usage of AMD CPUs and in return OEMs got greatly discounted CPUs and marketing $$$. Rosoboronexport fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jun 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 16:56
|
|
|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:I'd hope that Vega has a GDDR5(x) incarnation so it would make it faster to market but it seems that it's too late for such decisions. To be fair, that might be what happened when they announced they pushed the Vega "launch" up to October '16.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 16:59
|
|
|
lDDQD posted:Intel's marketing was good enough that even when their product was complete poo poo compared to AMD's, they were still gaining market share. If by "Marketing" you mean "Anti-competitive strategies"
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:01
|
|
|
Phlegmish posted:What happened, exactly? I know AMD got left behind, not sure why though. Intel made illegal price agreements with OEMs to disrupt competition and squash AMD out of the market, for which they got fined. But I doubt the fine makes up for the economic damages AMD suffered due to it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:02
|
|
|
Both companies are doing god's work if this thread is correct. NVIDIA is pushing towards the promised land of 4K@90Hz@Ultra, at which point we will all ascend directly into John Carmack's brain. Today's $900 nitrogen-cooled behemoth is 2020's Dell laptop pack-in. AMD is pushing down the price point for VR and 1440p@90@Ultra which bring shockingly immersive experiences to mainstream PC gamers. Keeping PC pricing near consoles for one-tier-above graphics is really valuable. Sadly, I think AMD is likely starving themselves on the 480 dGPUs and I hope they are getting $$$ for the console business. The basic thesis of the APU is solid IMO, especially with HBM in play, but AMD has had real trouble getting traction and the difficulty factor outside consoles is high: you have to be competitive in two arenas at once.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:11
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:Keeping PC pricing near consoles for one-tier-above graphics is really valuable. This line of thought doesn't get nearly enough traction, and if eGPU catches on (fingers crossed), it dramatically brings down the price/performance ratio to where it can make more sense for more people on a do it all platform that PC is supposed to be, except now it'll go outside where the normies are without a huge price or performance gap if you have a laptop with an HQ processor. The RX 480 makes sense for me, my brother, my friends, anyone who I'd be building a PC for. The 980 is a strong card that you edged out because the 980Ti was a surprise for its price/performance. If it has even a little overclocking headroom, that much the better. Do I wish we had a 2016 Fury? Yes. It would be rad and cool and good, but it's like getting mad at Toyota for releasing a new Corolla instead of a Celica. A bunch more people are going to buy the former than the latter.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:20
|
|
|
Phlegmish posted:What happened, exactly? I know AMD got left behind, not sure why though. Among other things, Intel engaged in flat-out underhanded practices that caused AMD to sue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_v._Intel http://www.anandtech.com/show/2887 http://www.networkworld.com/article/2239461/data-center/intel-and-antitrust--a-brief-history.html
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:24
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:Keeping PC pricing near consoles for one-tier-above graphics is really valuable. I take it you haven't seen discussion of the Xbox "Scorpio"? MS announced an Xbox with a Zen CPU and RX-480 GPU this week, for people who want a PC-quality experience out of consoles.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:24
|
|
|
Twerk from Home posted:I take it you haven't seen discussion of the Xbox "Scorpio"? MS announced an Xbox with a Zen CPU and RX-480 GPU this week, for people who want a PC-quality experience out of consoles. Was Zen confirmed anywhere? I didn't hear/read that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:25
|
|
|
NewFatMike posted:Do I wish we had a 2016 Fury? Yes. It would be rad and cool and good, but it's like getting mad at Toyota for releasing a new Corolla instead of a Celica. A bunch more people are going to buy the former than the latter. My concern is that they're trying to build a Celica, getting a weak one, and selling it at Corolla prices -- not sustainable. I think the high end subsidizes the low end for NVIDIA, on R&D if not also manufacture. Without a high-end play, AMD depends on volume at thin margins, and their brand is still in the way of high volume at this point. E: Twerk from Home posted:I take it you haven't seen discussion of the Xbox "Scorpio"? MS announced an Xbox with a Zen CPU and RX-480 GPU this week, for people who want a PC-quality experience out of consoles. I hadn't heard that it was Zen or that they'd confirmed the GPU. Scorpio is still a while out I thought, so we'll see where PC graphics are, but for a $400 price point consoles are going to win for a while. Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Jun 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:28
|
|
|
HalloKitty posted:Was Zen confirmed anywhere? I didn't hear/read that. Nope, I'm an idiot falling for bad journalism after all: https://www.techpowerup.com/223385/microsoft-xbox-scorpio-soc-powered-by-polaris-and-zen http://www.anandtech.com/show/10418...x-zen-or-jaguar http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-xbox-one-project-scorpio-spec-analysis
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:28
|
|
|
LogicalFallacy posted:On the subject of Gigabyte cards being massive, I have a Windforce 970 in my computer right now and LxW is 12.28" x 5.08". The only reason I don't have something jury-rigged to help prop the thing up is that it's resting on my hard drive bay. I just checked and that 1070 on newegg is 'only' 11.26" x 4.53," so definitely make double sure it will fit in your case before you go for it. That's bigger than I expected but any case with removable bays (like the R5) should be able to fit it unless it's a weird slim ATX case or the drive bays are both unable to be removed and running lengthwise in the case? Geemer posted:Intel made illegal price agreements with OEMs to disrupt competition and squash AMD out of the market, for which they got fined. But I doubt the fine makes up for the economic damages AMD suffered due to it. Not even close, no. Just like every other fine a company gets for high impact illegal activity. Subjunctive posted:Both companies are doing god's work if this thread is correct. Even the 1070 is going to have issues hitting 1440p@90@Ultra*, AMD's card might be able to do it at 1080p though. The 1080 might do 4K90 if you're running two in SLI. * In newer/graphically intense games (obligatory lol Crysis). I'm sure I'll hit 90+ FPS with maxxed settings in games like FFXIV.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:35
|
|
|
are backplates just a matter of course with high-end cards now? are they generally removable? i want a decent 1070 but I'm running a large PSU in my ncase M1, which means I can't use a backplate without loving my power cables right up. not that i'm going to buy a 1070 until they're actually available so uh, prob gonna be waiting a while
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:38
|
|
|
Anyone able to tell me how the 1070's power consumption compares to the 770? I swapped my 770 out for the 1070 yesterday and it's all been good so far, but it occurred to me that I should make sure I'm not overstressing my PSU and I'm having trouble finding the relevant specs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:Even the 1070 is going to have issues hitting 1440p@90@Ultra*, AMD's card might be able to do it at 1080p though. I meant 1440@60, whoops. Ultra is obviously fluid and will shift over time, I'm thinking "detailed shadows, reflections, AA, many lights, long draw distance", not Hairworks. I would be surprised if 1080SLI could do 4K@90@Ultra for Witcher 3 or a modern AC, but maybe MGSV and almost certainly Overwatch. Pleasantly surprised, mind.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
There is also a potential future where AMD has just decided not to compete in the discrete PC market at all anymore, focusing on custom/embedded business (consoles) and OEM devices (like laptops). They would still make discrete versions of their chips a la the RX480, but they might have just decided they can't demand margins that make sense for them from the high end enthusiast space, and want to focus on producing high volume "value" products instead. I mean, PowerVR has built a whole business out of just doing graphics for iOS devices...
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:48
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:Anyone able to tell me how the 1070's power consumption compares to the 770? I swapped my 770 out for the 1070 yesterday and it's all been good so far, but it occurred to me that I should make sure I'm not overstressing my PSU and I'm having trouble finding the relevant specs. 770 uses up to 180W when gaming and the 1070 uses no more than 150W. https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_770/25.html https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1070/22.html
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:49
|
|
|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:just loving say you want AMD to release fury-tier cards each year despite how much economic sense it'd make (very little) I hope their plan works out for them
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:50
|
|
|
repiv posted:770 uses up to 180W when gaming and the 1070 uses no more than 150W. Oh wow. This much more power for less power consumption? I mean, I know efficiency is part of the point of improved cards, but drat. That's really impressive.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:50
|
|
Generic Monk posted:are backplates just a matter of course with high-end cards now? are they generally removable? i want a decent 1070 but I'm running a large PSU in my ncase M1, which means I can't use a backplate without loving my power cables right up. Yes and yes. Though you must have an insanely tight fit if the 2-3mm of a backplate is going to make a significant difference.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:54
|
|
|
So EVGA had some 1070 SCs available on their website.. they sold out in under 2 minutes. I'm guessing the supply issues on these are going to last a while.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:55
|
|
|
Intel did do some illegal things to keep AMD down in the 90s. However, it's really hard to know if that has directly resulted in their current market position. There have been several strategic missteps over the years as well. It's possible that those decisions may have been different if they had a better market position and more cash on hand, but it's harder to draw a clear line to that conclusion.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 17:56
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:Intel did do some illegal things to keep AMD down in the 90s. However, it's really hard to know if that has directly resulted in their current market position. There have been several strategic missteps over the years as well. It's possible that those decisions may have been different if they had a better market position and more cash on hand, but it's harder to draw a clear line to that conclusion. The stuff AMD complained about happened around x64 era more recently and is probably more relevant (since at the time x64 AMD processors vastly outstripped Intel's equivalent for at least 1/2 years)
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 18:06
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:If by "Marketing" you mean "Anti-competitive strategies"  it clearly gets results. Same thing's been happening with graphics cards ever since the takeover: even when nvidia's product is inferior, somehow they're still taking AMD's market share. At least ATi was actually able to translate better product into more sales, unlike the new management.
lDDQD fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jun 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 18:10
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:That's bigger than I expected but any case with removable bays (like the R5) should be able to fit it unless it's a weird slim ATX case or the drive bays are both unable to be removed and running lengthwise in the case? Picture for illustration:  If you look closely, you'll notice that the very end of the GPU is inside my 3.5" drive bay. Also I can never get over how absurdly massive my CPU cooler is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
you know it may also be worth noting that intel started making much better products
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
AVeryLargeRadish posted:Having high end chips tells us that NV will also have low end stuff, the 1060 is not in question.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 18:14
|
|
|
wicka posted:you know it may also be worth noting that intel started making much better products Well, yeah, since Core 2 (and arguably Pentium M) Intel has been killing it, one chip after another. But Pentium 4? Pentium D? They didn't deserve the success they had with Netburst.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 18:22
|
|
|
wicka posted:you know it may also be worth noting that intel started making much better products And funnily enough, Dell, who'd been steadfastly pro-Intel got a huge share of the first supply of those chips. That doesn't absolve the guy running AMD back then from responsibility for cutting R&D though. Still, AMD's had time to make a new uarch, and with Intel butting heads hard with diminishing returns and there being a canonical proper layout for a modern high power CPU (compare Apple's designs to Core, it's clear they're pushing in the same direction), it's a pretty good time form AMD to do considerably better in CPUs. As far as GPUs go, AMD stands to gain a ton from mobile wins. Their market share is infinitesimal, so design wins are a pure gain. Hopefully they execute well, because I'm not one of the people who want them to compete just so they can get their NV cards cheaper
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
lDDQD posted:
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 18:34
|
|
|
Khorne posted:There is no mystery here: AMD's drivers are trash. I would pay an extra $150 for a card to not use AMD drivers. They were trash. Aren't the Crimson drivers a huge improvement?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 18:35
|
|
|
Khorne posted:There is no mystery here: AMD's drivers are trash. I would pay an extra $150 for a card to not use AMD drivers. have you ever actually owned an AMD card
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 18:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 14:24 |
|
|
wicka posted:you know it may also be worth noting that intel started making much better products Right, but the question that will forever eternally hang in the air is, "Did Intel's anti-competitive business practices put it into a position that they could increase funding to their R&D division and come out with a killer product in response to AMDX64?" followed by, "Did Intel's anti-competitive business practices magnify the market share gains of their better product?". I would argue that yes, in spite of AMD not doing itself any favors, Intel exerted an unfair advantage by shutting AMD out of the OEM market while Intel themselves set up a recursive loop: Anti-competitive agreements with OEMs increase revenue, which can be spent on R&D or fabs, which increases margin, and gets them a tech lead, which they could then use to sell the latest and greatest to the OEMs. And this happened for, by some accounts, almost a decade, with allegations stemming back from the early 90s into the mid-00s. If you ask me, any advantage you can maintain for a decade (or longer, even!), regardless of how infinitesimal, is going to pay off dividends in the end. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jun 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2016 18:38
|
|