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In that case, it seems like a terrible idea. Which means it's going to happen. The Air Force is going to end up in a situation where there are 4 enlisted AFSCs: MX, Healthcare, Security Forces, Other. Edit: Other will include former MPF, Finance, and IT/Cyber personnel expected to be experts in all of areas covered. Godholio fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 17:00
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Godholio posted:In that case, it seems like a terrible idea. Which means it's going to happen. I know when I left C-130s, they were talking the same story: Combining ECM and Comm/Nav, and then combining with GAC.
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Jun 16, 2016 17:02
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Godholio posted:Edit: Other will include former MPF, Finance, and IT/Cyber personnel expected to be experts in all of areas covered. Interesting you say that 'cause when I left Personnel, there was a big push at my base for all of the Personnelists to know all possible jobs that the MPS does. To anybody on the outside, this might seem like a decent idea so that you can get help from pretty much anybody inside the MPS; to those inside the MPS, we knew that it's a terrible idea. You already have people who barely know their jobs and AFIs and now you want them to learn everybody else's job in detail? It'll end up being even worse service and information given to the base populace because it'll be filled with guesses those who don't know and lots of "I'll get back to you on that" kind of conversations. Working in Assignments is hard enough as it is, I can't imagine knowing Reenlistments, Separations, Retirements, Evaluations, LeaveWeb, Duty Information, etc. well enough to tell anybody anything worthwhile. I'm not sure whatever came of it, though; I retrained as quick as possible.
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Jun 16, 2016 17:27
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CommieGIR posted:They kicked out most of their dedicated workers due to PT issues and now manning is so low, they are having to consider combining AFSCs And to those unmotivated fat bodies, I say good riddance. Is it that hard to go work out after a 14 hour shift? Protons fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 18:19
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Protons posted:And to those unmotivated fat bodies, I say good riddance. Is it that hard to go work out after a 14th shift? "The guys in support* do just fine!" *with the exercise machine in their break room they bought at use it or lose it time
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Jun 16, 2016 18:22
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Protons posted:And to those unmotivated fat bodies, I say good riddance. Is it that hard to go work out after a 14 hour shift? What do you mean you can't leave your mission 4 hours early to go to mandatory squadron PT???
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Jun 16, 2016 18:24
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When I was retraining they put me in support. It was great because I could go do stuff.
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Jun 16, 2016 18:25
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You don't need a gym to practice for 30 push-ups and a mile run lol
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Jun 16, 2016 18:26
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Buca di Bepis posted:You don't need a gym to practice for 30 push-ups and a mile run lol Y'know what? gently caress the well rounded airman bullshit. Because that is just what it is, bullshit. We're not going to be deployed as combat troops unless everything has gone to gently caress and they ran out of Army and Marines, and they want specialists in specific fields but then act like being specialized at anything is some sort of handicap. PT needs to reflect what you actually do as a job. Running a mile and a half doesn't prove anything other than you have some modicum of endurance, when as an MX member you'll never run outside of a PT test or running for your bunker, and pushups/situps do more to actually reflect your physical needs. PT standards are just a method for the air force to justify kicking people out to save money.
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Jun 16, 2016 18:33
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CommieGIR posted:Y'know what? gently caress the well rounded airman bullshit. Because that is just what it is, bullshit. I told a Gung how e8 at a stupid enlisted development seminar that pt was nothing more than a force shaping tool. He just shook his head and said he's sorry I feel that way, but I'm wrong. The air force needs fit to fight warriors. pt is a force shaping tool.
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Jun 16, 2016 19:16
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Protons posted:I told a Gung how e8 at a stupid enlisted development seminar that pt was nothing more than a force shaping tool. Because the Air Force is going to throw expensive Maintenance people that they had to spend nearly a year training and qualifying at a combat scenario. Yep. PT is a force shaping tool. Its a budget tool for kicking out expensive and experienced airmen in favor of new and cheaper blood.
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Jun 16, 2016 19:45
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It's also a living expression of the Air Force's inferiority complex.
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Jun 16, 2016 19:48
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:It's also a living expression of the Air Force's inferiority complex. "We could be the Army if we really wanted to"  Commander: "Let's go do a group run!" *5 Minutes pass in summer heat* Commander: "Nevermind, individual PT and you are all dismissed to your shops. But before you go, let's chant about how we're Warrior Airman. Fly Fight Win! gently caress its hot I'm going back to my office" CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 19:50
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I don't want unhygienic fat bodies all over the loving place. Good enough reason for me.
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Jun 16, 2016 20:55
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Godholio posted:In that case, it seems like a terrible idea. Which means it's going to happen. Remember that time we merged ECM maintenance with comm/nav despite both areas barely knowing anything about their assigned systems to begin with Boy that sure was a great idea
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Jun 16, 2016 21:22
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On the other hand the people at my old shop who were real gym obsessed were horrible at their job and working with them might as well have been a solo shift
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Jun 16, 2016 22:29
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Prop Wash posted:Remember that time we merged ECM maintenance with comm/nav despite both areas barely knowing anything about their assigned systems to begin with Or hey, how about 3D1x2 getting the VIDS guys merged into them? "What are we going to do with all these guys who handle security fences and sensors and poo poo?" "Well, it all plugs into a computer, put them into comm! How about the one comm field we merge everything into!" Great idea, most of these guys don't have any clearances and are completely useless when they show up in a networking shop as the VIDS stuff is apparently all proprietary.
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Jun 17, 2016 00:10
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Casimir Radon posted:I don't want unhygienic fat bodies all over the loving place. Good enough reason for me. We can encourage physical fitness without a god damned PT test. Oh, and don't forget the guys who do have weight issues that CAN pass the physical portion but not the waist.
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Jun 17, 2016 00:30
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CommieGIR posted:We can encourage physical fitness without a god damned PT test. Oh, and don't forget the guys who do have weight issues that CAN pass the physical portion but not the waist. If they cared about their country and the Air Force, they'd lose those inches.
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Jun 17, 2016 02:53
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if there's one thing i can be proud of it's that the AF generally fucks non O6+ airmen with a straight up gut
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Jun 17, 2016 02:57
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Buca di Bepis posted:if there's one thing i can be proud of it's that the AF generally fucks non O6+ airmen with a straight up gut Lofty goals for our mighty force.
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Jun 17, 2016 03:01
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You guys have no idea how fat people were before we brought the PT test back. We seriously trimmed the force. Literally, figuratively, etc.
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Jun 17, 2016 03:12
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OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH posted:You guys have no idea how fat people were before we brought the PT test back. But could they do their damned jobs?
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Jun 17, 2016 03:15
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No, not in extreme heat and sun. There were so many heat casualties from unfit fucks getting deployed early in the war that centaf complained. True story. We needed something better than that bike test, and we needed to boot some fatties. They're expensive to take care of long term anyway. And it's not impossible or even difficult to do your USAF job, pass our SUPER EASY PT test, and not have a 38 inch waist. I sympathize that it sucks. All PT sucks, but the demands of the USAF PT test are a joke.
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Jun 17, 2016 03:33
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Apply the PT standards to the contractor labor force
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Jun 17, 2016 03:34
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OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH posted:No, not in extreme heat and sun. There were so many heat casualties from unfit fucks getting deployed early in the war that centaf complained. True story. Willing to bet that had more to do with hydration issues. gently caress PT and gently caress the PT test.
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Jun 17, 2016 03:39
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Updawgs posted:
Yes and no. Here is what will happen. You take the ASVAB if you have not already. Once the results come back (med exam and ASVAB in the morning, review and job placement in afternoon if you did the 1 day trip) they will tell you that you qualified for Security Forces if you scored low/some lovely job that sucks and no one wants if you scored high. Make them tell you what you scored and the break down. Then get the actual list of careers and take one you want to do. Do not take "open" anything. Do not listen to them when they say a field is closed. Do not listen to them when they say "oh that job doesn't have a training opening for X months". I swear if you listen to what they say at MEPS you will gently caress yourself. There is a reason I was in EOD. And a very good reason why I wound up in Weather which is what I wanted to do in the first place. Additional advice: Don't take: Security Forces (or any job that they tell you involves Special Operations, its the loving Air Force, you are enlisting for a desk job. If not then go to a Marine recruiter), Maintenance, Services or CE. Take: Computers, Medical, that odd loving obsession (weather, intel, ect). Of course all this is moot if you make the smart choice and go to college instead. CommieGIR posted:But could they do their damned jobs? I got out in 04 and people who got winded walking from the ops floor to the bathroom were also the same people who loving sucked at their job.
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Jun 17, 2016 03:51
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My unit had like 4 people get out for PT failures but one of them is working as a contractor for CENTCOM making 4x what he used to with like a quarter of the hours. Another is working for the Phiillipine military as a contractor, and the other two were gently caress ups who are unemployed still. So it's 50-50 I guess. Kick people out for bad job performance and PT problems IMO
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Jun 17, 2016 04:29
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CommieGIR posted:Willing to bet that had more to do with hydration issues. It's literally the easiest PT test in the DoD, what on earth do you want in place of it? Generally the PT problem children were problem children to begin with, with a few exceptions to prove the rule. I'm saying that so Godholio can't  me. I know there's exceptions to the rule. It's lovely how one failure can gently caress over a good guy like Godholio. And others. But it's already the easiest test in the military. What more do you want? Before we had the current system there were honest to god morbidly obese folks who were on Active Duty. At least the current system prevents that- you get too fat and your hosed. We know for a fact not having a PT program led to a lot of fatties. We know the PT test has eliminated a lot of fatties or motivated them to get "fit" or get hosed. The Air Force also supposedly saved a ton of money in healthcare costs from having a literally leaner force. The general that said this was a medical general so.. I dunno. But I kinda buy it. V  V But yeah it's absolutely a force shaping tool. No argument there.
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Jun 17, 2016 05:18
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OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH posted:You guys have no idea how fat people were before we brought the PT test back. lol my wife was telling me some stories from when they switched over from the bike "test" to the actual PT test, it happened a few years after she came in. Like I'm all for bitching about PT stupidity, how lovely leadership can use it to gently caress over good people, and how we refuse to acknowledge that we intentionally use it as a force shaping tool...but holy poo poo we used to have some fat loving people on AD
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Jun 17, 2016 05:52
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Ragaman posted:3D0X2 is in fact going through ANOTHER career field transition/merger over the next few years (just had one in 2010/2011) and from what our Chief told us, they are looking at making our job more like 1B4 or merging us directly into into 1B4. After the initial 2009 3D merger fuckup, I eagerly await whatever comes next. I was TDY to the comm schoolhouse at Keesler a couple months back, and the word there is that all the 3D fields are going to be remerged/renamed as 1B AFSCs. That's why 1B4X1 is the only AFSC in the 1B series. PT chat: seriously, come the gently caress on. My job is completely sedentary, I don't even PT and I can ace this poo poo. If people fail multiple times, they aren't trying or there's something medically wrong with them. I've heard all the arguments about job performance vs. physical fitness, and that's bullshit. Plenty of us were popped for ILO/IA/JET taskings and had to run with the Army. I never had to run a mile and a half downrange, but I sure as poo poo had to run to cover under fire. I got in at the tail end of the fat Air Force, when dudes wore custom-tailored BDUs to cover their morbidly obese guts. The fattest guys were also - shockingly - the laziest and therefore the most useless. I don't like the admin punishment aspect of PT failure, but frankly there were dudes who needed to be shown the door.
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Jun 17, 2016 05:58
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Haha, gently caress PME, just passed C14 after killing C15 all in the span of two months without even downloading the pdfs. If a not ready to promote poo poo bag tsgt like me can kill these tests what are they even worth? Time to get drunk at 3pm in songtan, woooooo
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Jun 17, 2016 06:56
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For the record, the only reason I feel hosed over is that it was 2 years prior to the RIF and my last PT score was a 93. And I got lumped in with fake rape accuser and the M9 Expert Debater/SERE campshitter. Actually getting out was one of the 3 highlights of my career otherwise. My DOS was something like 7 months before I was getting out anyway, and getting RIFed gave me a severance package I wouldn't have otherwise received.
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Jun 17, 2016 07:06
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Godholio posted:For the record, the only reason I feel hosed over is that it was 2 years prior to the RIF and my last PT score was a 93. And I got lumped in with fake rape accuser and the M9 Expert Debater/SERE campshitter. Actually getting out was one of the 3 highlights of my career otherwise. Please don't think I was hating bro because I really wasn't. 
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Jun 17, 2016 08:08
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Two older msgts at Eglin literally keeled over dead on the pt track during their run. They weren't 'fat', but had the average middle aged white dude paunch. This was in 04 05 before the second iteration of the scoring standard where you could fail 3 out of 4 components, but so long as you scored 75 you were good. Literally a space marine training regimen. Although I only ever knew two legit fat bodies when I was humping a flight line. One of them PCSd from Mountain Home to Eglin, and the humidity and heat actually melted a lot of lard off the dude. What is an M9 Expert Debater/campshitter? lite_sleepr fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 12:40
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I suck at running, but have yet to keel over in Afghanistan or Qatar. Huh. Oh, its cause I'm not a fat body, I guess. http://federalnewsradio.com/defense/2016/06/air-force-puts-number-maintainence-staffing-deficit/ quote:The Air Force is going through a pilot shortfall, but that’s not the only area where the service is understaffed. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 14:15
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Adequate readiness... see, the thing about readiness is it's such a ubiquitous term and can be redefined by anyone who uses it. There will always be an O-6 willing to give good news that his unit is 100% in compliance for readiness to outdo the other O-6s. Or, like experience levels, just change the requirements to be coded as "experienced" and wallah 50% more personnel are experienced!
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Jun 17, 2016 14:35
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OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH posted:Please don't think I was hating bro because I really wasn't. Nah it's all good, I just wanted to put some context on it since it hasn't come up in a while. That was the best possible way to leave the AF, honestly. I had enough time to squeeze in a short deployment, got a nice check, free healthcare for a while, left a few months early, and my base privileges still haven't expired.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:03
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lite_sleepr posted:
A guy who, while at SERE, decided that instead of walking out of site of his 4-6 person camp and digging a hole to poo poo in, he was just going to walk about 10 feet and drop trou. SERE instructor made him bag it and carry it. Fast forward a few years and he's well loving known as possibly the biggest fuckup in the career field ever, and he's thrown into an Air Liaison Officer assignment...basically an AF rep to the Army. While deployed with them, he got into an argument with some SNCO that I assume he was losing because he was wrong, and he drew his M9 and put it on the table with the ever-popular line, "Well, I'm an officer." He's personally the subject of almost all my stories in the idiot thread. He and I got RIFed together. Him for his utter stupidity, me for failing the run (resulting in a referral OPR) 2 years prior to the RIF.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:06
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Godholio posted:A guy who, while at SERE, decided that instead of walking out of site of his 4-6 person camp and digging a hole to poo poo in, he was just going to walk about 10 feet and drop trou. SERE instructor made him bag it and carry it. Fast forward a few years and he's well loving known as possibly the biggest fuckup in the career field ever, and he's thrown into an Air Liaison Officer assignment...basically an AF rep to the Army. While deployed with them, he got into an argument with some SNCO that I assume he was losing because he was wrong, and he drew his M9 and put it on the table with the ever-popular line, "Well, I'm an officer." He's personally the subject of almost all my stories in the idiot thread. He and I got RIFed together. Him for his utter stupidity, me for failing the run (resulting in a referral OPR) 2 years prior to the RIF.  What the gently caress is wrong with that guy.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:25
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